Grand Floridian Point Inflation

[DVC Mike]

I just can't get over the point inflation of VGF.

Using an example of staying in a 1-BR during the first week of March 2014:

BWV Standard View is 220 points @ 5.84 = $1,285
BLT Standard View is 268 points @ 4.50 = $1,206
VGF Standard View is 340 points @ 5.41 = $1,839

BWV Preferred View is 271 points @ 5.84 = $1,583
BLT Lake View is 301 points @ 4.50 = $1,355
VGF Lake View is 407 points @ 5.41 = $2,202

The above just takes maintenance fees into consideration, and doesn't consider the $145 per point of VGF against BWV and BLT on the resale market.

Let's say you wanted to purchase enough points today to do this every year. It would cost you:

BWV Standard View is 220 points @ 85 = $18,700
BLT Standard View is 268 points @ 97 = $25,996
VGF Standard View is 340 points @ 145 = $49,300

BWV Preferred View is 271 points @ 85 = $23,035
BLT Lake View is 301 points @ 97 = $29,197
VGF Lake View is 407 points @ 145 = $59,015

You'd be paying twice as much up front for VGF.

 

[cfw213]

Thanks for the analysis, that's pretty eye opening!

 

[myxdvz]

I think the MF analysis is fair.

What's not fair is comparing direct VGF prices to resale BWV/BLT/AKV prices. If you really want to do that, use direct prices on both since VGF is not available via resale yet.

BWV Standard View is 220 points @ 130 = $28,600
BLT Standard View is 268 points @ 165 = $44,220
VGF Standard View is 340 points @ 145 = $49,300

BWV Preferred View is 271 points @ 130 = $35,360
BLT Lake View is 301 points @ 165 = $49,665
VGF Lake View is 407 points @ 145 = $59,015

Buying resale points for staying at VGF right now is unknown. It is a small resort and I'm sure most of the new buyers are buying to stay there -- so it is unclear exactly how many will be available to non-resort owners at 7 months.

 

[ELMC]

Mike, you make a fair point. But I think DVD is intentionally positioning themselves there based on the fact that this is the Grand Floridian. Now if they open a less exclusive resort at the same pricing, then I would be more alarmed. But comparing room to room between BWV and VGF, there's just no comparison.

 

[BestDadEver]

This is also the trend that I have seen to offset the fact that they can not raise points totals per resort . So they raise the points at the new resorts . So lets say you have enough points at BWV for a week , you may only be able to stay at Aulani for 4 days , so you may be wiling to buy more points to stay at the newer resorts .

I think thats what they are going for here . You can see the points chart doing what you said since BLT . They have more allocated points per resort .

 

[DVC Mike]

I think the MF analysis is fair.

What's not fair is comparing direct VGF prices to resale BWV/BLT/AKV prices. If you really want to do that, use direct prices on both since VGF is not available via resale yet.

Point taken; however, if a member is looking at doing a VGF add-on right now, I think it is a fair comparison, as there is no VGF resale market to buy from today.

We know the direct price for VGF is only going to go up, and I would expect it to be on par with BLT fairly soon.

 

[myxdvz]

Point taken; however, if a member is looking at doing a VGF add-on right now, I think it is a fair comparison, as there is no VGF resale market to buy from today.

We know the direct price for VGF is only going to go up, and I would expect it to be on par with BLT fairly soon.

I think that any difference in points is mimicked by the cash difference. For said date s(3/1-3/8),

Boardwalk Inn starts at $405
Contemporary starts at $371
Grand Floridian = $540

So, I guess I'm surprised at the "surprise" at the premium that VGF is commanding.

 

[nabi]

I just can't get over the point inflation of VGF.
You'd be paying twice as much up front for VGF.

We're starting to sound like my grandfather! "I remember when a loaf of bread was 5 cents!"

Oh well, as long as I don't sound like my mother, I suppose.

 

[WilsonFlyer]

Thanks for the analysis, that's pretty eye opening!

I agree. It really is.

 

[Breyean]

I think my sister's recent experience fits this thread.

She bought BLT a couple of years ago, direct. Due to illness she wasn't able to travel until recently, and on short notice she booked OKW, partly on availability, partly based on my suggestion.

Now, she had bought BLT because of the MK access and the monorail to EPCOT - typical reasons.

She liked OKW and then planned for another trip, this time to BLT, for August.

After she made the reservation she called me and asked if she was nuts, or was she paying a lot more in points for the room in BLT than she had in OKW. I told she wasn't crazy - each resort is different in points cost and good and bad points, most of those based on what people like.

She understood, but also said she would definitely be staying at OKW again because she liked the idea of getting an extra night there compared with BLT.

 

[McCrae]

The rooms at VGF are much bigger than most resorts.... Which is the only big surprise for me.

When you look at the price per square foot difference is not that large.

 

[rock_doctor]

I think there are two intentions here...1. with the higher points required for a stay the owners will stay shorter periods of time and allow for a faster turn over of guests in the small resort. 2. make the maximum profit.

 

[DVC Mike]

The rooms at VGF are much bigger than most resorts.... Which is the only big surprise for me.

When you look at the price per square foot difference is not that large.

Take the square footage of the 1-BR units at BWV, BLT and VGF and you'll still see a 20-40% increase in cost per square foot for VGF.

If you want to use the cost per square foot as a comparison, take out the calculator and compare VGF to OKW. Ouch! Talk about point inflation!

 

[pixie08]

I think there is something missing in this conversation- the emotional component. Many people buy their DVC locations based on an emotional factor. They buy where they want to stay. It is not always such an analytical process with the majority of people. So while you are right, I do not think most people will see it that way. I think it will sell like hot cakes.

 

[DVC Mike]

I think there is something missing in this conversation- the emotional component. Many people buy their DVC locations based on an emotional factor. They buy where they want to stay. It is not always such an analytical process with the majority of people. So while you are right, I do not think most people will see it that way. I think it will sell like hot cakes.

Oh, I agree. Emotion has played a big role in the decision made by many to purchase DVC - including mine. Do I own 1,151 DVC points because it is logical from a financial point of view, or because I have an emotional attachment to Disney? I know it's the latter. If I was down at WDW right now and took the tour of the model rooms, I have no doubt I would be purchasing an add-on at VGF.

I'm just pointing out the much higher cost of owning VGF compared to other resorts, and that the points required to stay at the newer resorts continues to climb.

People were predicting a point cost higher than $145, but the higher number of points per stay and the higher maintenance fees have made VGF fairly pricey. But, it IS the Grand Floridian.

 

[JimMIA]

What's not fair is comparing direct VGF prices to resale BWV/BLT/AKV prices. If you really want to do that, use direct prices on both since VGF is not available via resale yet.

I disagree. Why would anyone in their right mind buy BWV, BLT, or AKV direct?

I think Mike used exactly the right numbers -- the most realistic ones. [ETA -- in fact, I think he could comfortably gone somewhat lower on the resale prices, if indeed that's what he used.]

 

[JimMIA]

This is also the trend that I have seen to offset the fact that they can not raise points totals per resort . So they raise the points at the new resorts . So lets say you have enough points at BWV for a week , you may only be able to stay at Aulani for 4 days , so you may be wiling to buy more points to stay at the newer resorts .

I think thats what they are going for here . You can see the points chart doing what you said since BLT . They have more allocated points per resort .

That's true, and the other effect of points inflation is a beneficial effect on MFs. The expenses of running the resort each year are what they are. But if the points cost per room-night are significantly higher, the expenses are shared by many more points, and therefore the MF per point is lower.

Oh, and by the way, if they sell many more points per room-night, DVD makes a ton more money on the sale of the points.

Win, win.

 

[pixie08]

Oh, I agree. Emotion has played a big role in the decision made by many to purchase DVC - including mine. Do I own 1,151 DVC points because it is logical from a financial point of view, or because I have an emotional attachment to Disney? I know it's the latter. If I was down at WDW right now and took the tour of the model rooms, I have no doubt I would be purchasing an add-on at VGF.

I'm just pointing out the much higher cost of owning VGF compared to other resorts, and that the points required to stay at the newer resorts continues to climb.

People were predicting a point cost higher than $145, but the higher number of points per stay and the higher maintenance fees have made VGF fairly pricey. But, it IS the Grand Floridian.

Me too. I know it's crazy. They play on the heart strings. We know it may not be a good investment and we fall for it. Sometimes that is why I envy those that just own at SSR as i think this is the best value! The prices are crazy at VGF. That is why if we do anything it will just be a small add on. So many people though are going crazy with the add ons, wether they can afford it or not

 

[cseca]

Ouch!!
To see those numbers written down really hurts...

Me too. I know it's crazy. They play on the heart strings. We know it may not be a good investment and we fall for it. Sometimes that is why I envy those that just own at SSR as i think this is the best value! The prices are crazy at VGF. That is why if we do anything it will just be a small add on. So many people though are going crazy with the add ons, wether they can afford it or not

Sometimes I do too!!!

But then I think about all the stress I undertake whenever I ran out of my BLT points and have to wait until 7mo to get reservations... then I'm much less envious...

 

[a742246]

Other factors when comparing costs would be comparing years left on a contract.
For example: Lets say that BWV is going for $80 on the resale market divide that figure by 29(years left) and you get 2.75 a point.
If buying GF for 145 divide that by 50 years you get $2.90 a point.
If you are buying BWV as a direct purchase for 145 divide that by 29 and you get $5.00 a point.
So in the above figures GFV doesn't look so bad, in fact against BWV direct it looks like a bargain. As for the higher MF's I look at the fees as paying for more expensive furnishing and higher costs due to "Real Estate location".

Now if our daughter wasn't getting married this year and our son maybe next year. We would have the money to buy GF but I think our daughter would ...... me if we bought GF instead. So in keeping the peace, I just want to tell all those who are buying GF good luck to you.