Goodbye, Maxpass. Hello, Disney Genie.

I am not talking about money, who can and cannot afford the access for these things. I am just talking about keeping it simple. That is where I am coming from.

You took this in a whole another direction. My position has nothing to do with where we are as a culture today. I have no issues with the whole haves and have not's. That has nothing to do with my feelings. If you can afford all of the perks Disney has to offer, be my guest, buy them all. I just wish a day at Disneyland could be as simple as it was 25 years ago but I know that will never happen.

That's fine, I like simplicity too, but your post made me think of why we even are down this road of tiered access, hence my grand circle tour through left field. I really think it's related to generational expectations around money, and Disney's program changes are a reflection of that.
 
I just can't do that anymore, as romantic of an idea as that sounds. We malign the shortfalls of MP/FP/G+/LL/C33FP/MEP/VQ/BG/VIP, we also thrive on them.

As much as Disneyland was/is "isolated" from the rest of the world, it reflected the world it was/is in as acceptability changed. It depicted the wild west and Native Americans as they were portrayed in popular culture at the time, as that was realized to be problematic, those depictions changed (think of the former burning cabin on Rivers). Disneyland banned same-sex dancing up until 1985, as the world became more accepting of the LGBTQIA community.

The generational change underlying the expansion of these special queues is that it is now acceptable to talk about money, wealth, power, and access openly in ways it wasn't acceptable before. My generation freely discusses salaries, promotions, having money, how we make more of it, what we spend it on, etc... in ways my parents did not, it was not polite. It's not that premium experiences just didn't exist, but they were very defined and less visible -- flying F on a major airline meant you were either a millionaire, or an important business person; you rode in a limo if you were rich, a taxi cab if you had some extra cash, while most of us went on the subway.

Buying access/using that wealth openly enabled Disneyland to openly market products that quite literally lets you buy your way to the front of the line. In the real world, instead of limo vs. cab vs. subway, you have limo, uber-x, uber, uber share, subway. Instead of F and coach, you have fractional private jet, commercial F, business class, premium economy, economy, basic economy. Disneyland was the same -- instead of VIP tours & C33 FPs vs. waiting in line, it's become VIP tours, LL, G+, and standby (VQ/BG still free -- but may the best smart phone win).

I think we can all agree portraying Native Americans appropriately and expanding LGBTQI rights is noble and right, but the downline effects of shining a light on how and why we use money for access is less clear.

K-shaped recovery, indeed.

For myself, the new Genie+, LL, VQ, has nothing to do with the societal issues you raise, it’s far simpler:

I spend much of my day at work on a computer/phone, so when I go to Disneyland, I don’t like the whole park experience being tethered to a smartphone.

I don’t care much that everyday life requires constant use of a smartphone…the magic of Disneyland at its core, is to be transported to a place that is nothing like everyday life.
 
For myself, the new Genie+, LL, VQ, has nothing to do with the societal issues you raise, it’s far simpler:

I spend much of my day at work on a computer/phone, so when I go to Disneyland, I don’t like the whole park experience being tethered to a smartphone.

I don’t care much that everyday life requires constant use of a smartphone…the magic of Disneyland at its core, is to be transported to a place that is nothing like everyday life.

that sentiment is shared by many (me included), pop into this thread:https://www.disboards.com/threads/what-happened.3847772/
 
Buying access/using that wealth openly enabled Disneyland to openly market products that quite literally lets you buy your way to the front of the line
Interesting take. I would actually go further and look at it as marking the beginning of a deliberate shift of Disneyland from a place for families to a luxury product sold to the rich.

There have always been special perks for those who could afford them, but they were generally subtle enough so “everyday” people were able to ignore them and to maintain the illusion that, yes, even though there may be class distinctions in the outside world, the Disney bubble had different rules. All of us were special and worthy of particular cast member attention and care. Each little girl was a “princess.” The stringent differences between “haves,” “have somes,” and “have nots” were somehow, miraculously, left outside of those gates (of course, if you were truly poor, then even a bare bones Disney vacation was probably out of reach for you, so all of what I’m writing here is of course relative in its own way).

Yes, there were indications that some guests were more “special” than others, but this was handled rather discreetly. If you wanted to see it, you had to look for it. There was a door to Club 33. There were VIP groups and celebrities, who got to skip lines. It wasn’t brazenly obvious, though

Also, there were ways of making one’s and one’s family’s experience even more special, even without a lot of money, by putting in sweat equity and smarts. If you didn’t have the money for Savi’s, your kids could make themselves the lightsaber discount version at Star Traders (and probably have just as much fun doing it). Planning meticulously, getting up insanely early, running for (legacy) fast passes had the potential to allow families without a huge amount of disposable cash to make their trip even more magical (while also teaching the kids that, yes, diligent research and hard work do indeed pay off).

Maybe I am simply paranoid, but the current developments make me think of a Disney headquarters strategy meeting, in which the powers that be discussed that the virus may be here to stay for a while (or, even if not, that people will probably, as a result of what we went through, be somewhat skittish when encountering pre-COVID-type densely packed peak season crowds).

So, what were they to do? One way of dealing with this problem is using the law of supply and demand, pricing out less well-to-do families (or those who save up for a once-in-a lifetime trip), and instead targeting the obscenely rich. Two birds, one stone—One, you don’t have to worry too much about people distancing safely (and/or anybody being squeamish about being densely packed, shoulder to shoulder) or about reservations running out too quickly, and, two, at the same time, you are raking in more money to make up for last years financial losses.

The Star Wars Hotel in Orlando, priced at a level that is completely out of reach for most regular families. For-profit pay-as-you-go lightning lanes. I wonder if all of this is not just insatiable, corporate greed, not just the byproduct of a society in which wealth is flaunted rather than carefully hidden, obvious only to those able to read its subtle cues, but actually a deliberate shifting of the segment of our society that Disney’s long-range planners consider their desired market.

Of course, this new elitist Disney experience could be temporary, used until the high-end market is saturated and it makes more financial sense to offer discounts and perks that appeal to the masses… I just worry that, by then, my kids will be grown, and our visits will be quite different from what they would be now.

I can’t help but think that most of the heroes from Disney’s stories (Tiana, Aurora/Briar Rose, etc.) would, were they real, as less financially fortunate individuals, actually be priced out of visiting the parks… Somehow that idea makes me sad.
 

If more people are priced out of Genie+ then the standby line will remain much more reasonable because of less people using the 'Lightning' lines. Standby will move more efficiently if less people are in the Lightning lane.

Disney is already seen as a luxury to a lot of folks- not just poor families but regular ole middle class ones. I spent most of my adult life in an area in the middle west that skews much more lower/middle class and the idea that I go to Disney often is absolutely *mind blowing* to some of my old friends back there. So much so that their jealously about it has tainted some of those friendships.

On the same note, I sacrifice a lot of other things in my budget to allow for travel. I don't drive an expensive car, I don't rent a big house (I'm in CO so the idea of home ownership is laughable for anyone with only one income here) and I do tons of side hustles to make money. I sell on eBay, I do online surveys, I have garage sales, I do freelance writing for tons of websites on the side, etc. I'm definitely not rich by any means, my vacations are the result of lots of scrapping and saving throughout the year. But it's what I choose to spend my money on rather than being 'car poor' or 'house poor' like some of my friends are. I also only have one kid so that definitely changes things. I couldn't pull off any of these trips if I had more than one. Two people is a much more affordable budget for a trip than for a family of four so my situation is also unique (and easier) that way.

To afford Genie+ I'll probably just cut out extra souvenirs (that I really don't need anyways haha) or skip an expensive meal or two, we always bought MaxPass anyways so it's really just those 'a la carte' rides that will get me and I plan on trying to rope drop those or just wait in the regular line if I can manage it. Which hopefully will move more efficiently now that this system isn't like FP was.

I don't know, I don't see the doom and gloom of this that so many other Disney folks do right now. :duck:But I already was used to buying MaxPass so maybe that's why I'm not as upset... I don't love it but I'm just so relieved it's not an exact replica of what Disneyland Paris has. I'm waiting to find out if we can stack rides or if we really can only have ONE reservation at a time. Then I'll see how upset I am. ;)
 
If more people are priced out of Genie+ then the standby line will remain much more reasonable because of less people using the 'Lightning' lines. Standby will move more efficiently if less people are in the Lightning lane.

Disney is already seen as a luxury to a lot of folks- not just poor families but regular ole middle class ones. I spent most of my adult life in an area in the middle west that skews much more lower/middle class and the idea that I go to Disney often is absolutely *mind blowing* to some of my old friends back there. So much so that their jealously about it has tainted some of those friendships.

On the same note, I sacrifice a lot of other things in my budget to allow for travel. I don't drive an expensive car, I don't rent a big house (I'm in CO so the idea of home ownership is laughable for anyone with only one income here) and I do tons of side hustles to make money. I sell on eBay, I do online surveys, I have garage sales, I do freelance writing for tons of websites on the side, etc. I'm definitely not rich by any means, my vacations are the result of lots of scrapping and saving throughout the year. But it's what I choose to spend my money on rather than being 'car poor' or 'house poor' like some of my friends are. I also only have one kid so that definitely changes things. I couldn't pull off any of these trips if I had more than one. Two people is a much more affordable budget for a trip than for a family of four so my situation is also unique (and easier) that way.

To afford Genie+ I'll probably just cut out extra souvenirs (that I really don't need anyways haha) or skip an expensive meal or two, we always bought MaxPass anyways so it's really just those 'a la carte' rides that will get me and I plan on trying to rope drop those or just wait in the regular line if I can manage it. Which hopefully will move more efficiently now that this system isn't like FP was.

I don't know, I don't see the doom and gloom of this that so many other Disney folks do right now. :duck:But I already was used to buying MaxPass so maybe that's why I'm not as upset... I don't love it but I'm just so relieved it's not an exact replica of what Disneyland Paris has. I'm waiting to find out if we can stack rides or if we really can only have ONE reservation at a time. Then I'll see how upset I am. ;)

There hasn’t been any type of Fastpass system since the parks reopened, and yet the lines have often been very long waits. Not sure how Genie+ will help this.

And besides, with the omission of the very best rides…Genie+ is fundamentally a different offering than Maxpass was.
 
There hasn’t been any type of Fastpass system since the parks reopened, and yet the lines have often been very long waits. Not sure how Genie+ will help this.

And besides, with the omission of the very best rides…Genie+ is fundamentally a different offering than Maxpass was.

It definitely won't help, I'm just assuming it won't kill the standby line as much as FP did. A long wait will become even longer when you add any kind of front of line pass because then the standby line keeps coming to a halt to let the other line in. But if less people buy Genie+ then at least it won't be as bad as it was with FP when I imagine a much larger majority used it than will likely use Genie.
 
/
It definitely won't help, I'm just assuming it won't kill the standby line as much as FP did. A long wait will become even longer when you add any kind of front of line pass because then the standby line keeps coming to a halt to let the other line in. But if less people buy Genie+ then at least it won't be as bad as it was with FP when I imagine a much larger majority used it than will likely use Genie.

Except Disney can just keep increasing capacity, which will keep standby lines very long, and thus push more people to pay per ride for the very best attractions.

We will see longterm how this works for Disney, but as someone who can afford Genie+ and Lightening Lanes, it’s just not the experience we are looking for.
 
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it’s vacation, not torture treatment. No one has to go on rides. Waiting hours for a two minute ride?! That’s crazy!
We’ve never waited more than 30 min for anything in all our years of taking our kids (or even in my youth)… what a diminished experience that would be. We want to spend our time pleasantly enjoying the park. We’re planning to cancel, because this is lame. Even Universal offers the express pass free if you stay onsite. DL is too much for too little now.

Before Fastpass was ever a thing the lines weren't hours. The longest I waited for even popular rides was probably 40 minutes and that was in a super busy day. I'm sure things will be just fine with this new system. I never wait more than about 30 minutes for a ride. That's my choice. Like, I don't care if I have to wait until my next trip, or even longer before I ride ROTR. I won't waste too much time waiting on one attraction when there are plenty of other ones that I love.

Genie+ will not ruin things for me at DL, and it will vastly improve my experience at WDW since I am doing a happy dance at the demise of the horrible FP+ they had.

I honestly think that Disney has been a lesser and lesser experience for years due to insane crowd levels and they have to do something about that. The best way to thin the crowds is usually money. I don't mind paying more if it means a better experience while I'm there. The bargain basement AP's and monthly payment plans were the worst thing ever (for those of us who come from far away and pay a fortune to make a special vacation and find the parks overrun with "entitled" people using the place as their daily hangout). Unpopular opinion I know, but it is true. Many people I know stopped even wanting to go to DL due to masses of AP crowds.
 
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It's probably true that Space Mountain is more likely. Though I will point out that RSR and Rise both break down a lot, so I bet the frontline CM is not going to be loving the line of unhappy guests at City Hall every day once this thing gets implemented. Also, I still keep thinking that Peter Pan could end up on the pay to ride list, especially if that level of upcharge works more as a front of the line admittance with little queueing. I'm guessing that there will only be two rides per park on this upcharge list at least initially. That still leaves them a comfortable "more than 15" for genie+.
Gosh, I hope so. Both the Peter Pan thing and the only 2 rides per park thing. I could just about handle that.
 
As I was reading through this thread, I was thinking the same thing. I wish we could go back to just one line for everyone for every ride. No Fastpasses, Maxpasses, Lighting Lanes or special ques. Just get in line for the ride you want and wait however long it takes to get on the ride.

That's what we are doing now, mostly.
 
This! I'm so relieved to not have to deal with that system at WDW in our future trips.

We are both happy dancing about that one. I hated it enough that I really didn't even want to go during regular park hours, and I seriously was considering never returning to WDW. If I could just book an after hours event at each of the parks I'd have been happy. No matter the price of $200 per ticket or not. Way better experience for me. Since I rent a villa for a great price offsite, their old system was completely useless to me, and unfair to anyone not staying on site. I have said before, I am fine with them giving perks to on site guests such as extra hours, but I draw the line when they infringe on the enjoyment of regular day guests who have paid just as much to be inside the park for the day.
 
That's what we are doing now, mostly.

But I'm assuming some of the slowness of lines is due to Covid measures and reduced capacity? I do know that lines moved very well before Fastpass was a thing. The only rides with longer lines were the super popular ones (same as now), and you just decided whether it was worth it or not. They weren't hours long though.
 
But I'm assuming some of the slowness of lines is due to Covid measures and reduced capacity? I do know that lines moved very well before Fastpass was a thing. The only rides with longer lines were the super popular ones (same as now), and you just decided whether it was worth it or not. They weren't hours long though.

Nope. Not since June 15. Since then the rides have been running at full capacity and lines are no longer socially distanced.

And the lines haven't been "hours long" either. They average about 30 minutes.
 
I remember that time well. My family's solution to getting photos with Anna and Elsa was to have dad (me) stand in line for over two hours while mom and my two daughters went on rides and checked back periodically on my progress. I would have much preferred your solution and had mom and the daughters stand in line...

hahaha yes I was one of the nice moms who stood in line, in the afternoon sun for 2:45 for my 4 year old daughter to meet anna and elsa. I do believe my husband strolled off with her and my 1 year old son and all napped under a tree somewhere for the duration...
 
At 7 years old, I can see this. Not at 3 or 4 or even 5 honestly. Although I have boys and their threshold for patiently waiting is so much less than any of my nieces’. My 6 year old can wait about 30 minutes but only once or twice a day. He really couldn’t (wouldn’t) wait in a hour-long line.

totally agree. My daughter was ok to do it - and did - at about 6. My boys are currently 7, 5, and 3 and I can say with 100% certainty if they stood in a line for 70 minutes it would end with everyone within a few feet being inadvertently karate chopped. Because that's where it always ends when they're bored - everyone wrestling like a litter of puppies.
 
This is so true!! It is completely possible to stand in lines with kids. Our first trip with our boys to DL was in 2009 when they were 2 & 4, before MaxPass (with the legacy FP paper system only) and you were limited (by availability and how much you wanted to zigzag the parks) on how many FP you could get a day so you inevitably waited in lines. They survived and we have been back multiple times. Learning to wait in a queue is a lifeskill...

"Lines" is one thing. 70-100 mins, which is the regular wait time for RSR? Nope. Sorry, all kids are different - my daughter would have been fine, and maybe even my 7 year old boy if he's not with his brothers. When they're all together, with my #3 who is the epitome of third child? Nope. Nope. Nope. And as a SLP, I would like to say that is expecting a LOT out of the typical attention span and self control of a 5 year old and younger.
 
Except Disney can just keep increasing capacity, which will keep standby lines very long, and thus push more people to pay per ride for the very best attractions.

We will see longterm how this works for Disney, but as someone who can afford Genie+ and Lightening Lanes, it’s just not the experience we are looking for.

Agreed, this has zero to do with the money. If a 3 day hopper currently costs $300ish, I would sooner pay $500 a person (seriously, 500 or more) to know I had unlimited access via maxpass. Something about being limited to 2 "premium" rides a day via LL and also paying per ride just feels super trashy. Not the feeling I have previously had when coming to disneyland. Even though that $500 would probably cost more than adding G+ and LL, I would absolutely prefer it no questions asked.
 

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