Goodbye, Maxpass. Hello, Disney Genie.

[Drewski77]

Get up at 7am and get your Webslingers boarding group, Genie+ Mission Breakout and rope drop RSR. Guessing you wait 30mins at most. Genie+ the rest of your day.

A good plan, and yet:

With a 7am non-guaranteed boarding group, a standby line for RSR, and who knows for ROTR and Space Mountain, we are far from what Max Pass provided.

 

[brentm77]

I respectfully disagree:

When you omit the top attractions from Genie+ it becomes fundamentally different than Max Pass.

And sure, you can wait in a long standby line to ride RSR while paying for Genie+, but that gets us back to it being fundamentally different than Max Pass.

Exactly. I think most here understand the new system just fine. It's the fact that the new system (without a free option) will not include all fastpass rides that is so bothersome. We understand there will still be a standby line. I think many of us would even be fine with the new fee-only version. But their is nothing in the system for the customer. It only benefits Disney. Disney used to want to maximize revenue by giving the best customer experience around. Now, it wants to do it by nickel and diming instead, and offering less and less value to the customer.

Edit to add:
And it isn't just with this new program. It is becoming more and more apparent in both innovation, new-attraction build times, delayed maintenance, pared-down janitorial service, pared-down hotel service, and most obvious to us on two recent trips, declining customer service, almost certainly due to offering less-than-competitive wages. We had multiple experience that were similar or worse than the service I would expect at a bad fast-food place. And we saw multiple times where 2-4 cast members were grouped together, having casual chats, not wanting to be bothered by customers. So I don't buy the ramping-up-labor issue Disney is floating to various outlets. There is a clear lack of management and motivated employees (of course, not all, but they appear to lost many of the best ones due to wages/layoffs).

Still saw problems with garbage not being emptied and bad smells in the parks like we have never experienced before too.

Which shows me Disney's headspace. They think they can somehow cater to the rich by raising prices, but offering an inferior product. That's not how it works. You have to actually add more value if you want to increase prices, and they are literally doing the opposite. Once unbearable overcrowding hits again, there is zero chance we will pay premium prices for the parks. We already have next year's vacations booked outside of Disney parks. If anything, we will drop in for a 1-2 day long-weekend visit and spend a fraction of what we did this year. They are going to both push out the middle-class who can't afford it, and the people who could afford the increased cost, but won't see the value in spending their travel money with Disney anymore.

 

[poptart90]

Does this logic track? I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed with all the individual details...Standby, Virtual, Genie, Genie+, LL

So let's say DS goes nuts over ROTR (we've never been) and wants to ride it all day long. Obviously that's not happening, however am I correct in thinking the Max number of times he "could" go per day would be Three? Join a virtual queue, and then pay two times for a LL? That's it, right? I'm not missing any other options? (Oh...aside from Plaids! Should have included that in my list of options above)

To be clear, we're not going to pay for two rides each day or Plaids, just trying to be sure I'm not missing another reasonable option for more than one ride a day.

 

[clarker99]

A good plan, and yet:

With a 7am non-guaranteed boarding group, a standby line for RSR, and who knows for ROTR and Space Mountain, we are far from what Max Pass provided.

How does this change anyones daily plan? Everyone is gonna do the exact same thing as today. You try and get a RotR BG, you rope drop the rides you want to do. If you purchase Genie+ you get one more ride guarantee ahead of park opening and wing it from there based on availability. I am not even sure Genie+ is worth it in California. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Drewski77]

Exactly. I think most here understand the new system just fine. It's the fact that the new system (without a free option) will not include all fastpass rides that is so bothersome. We understand there will still be a standby line. I think many of us would even be fine with the new fee-only version. But their is nothing in the system for the customer. It only benefits Disney. Disney used to want to maximize revenue by giving the best customer experience around. Now, it wants to do it by nickel and diming instead, and offering less and less value to the customer.

Edit to add:
And it isn't just with this new program. It is becoming more and more apparent in both innovation, new-attraction build times, delayed maintenance, pared-down janitorial service, pared-down hotel service, and most obvious to us on two recent trips, declining customer service, almost certainly due to offering less-than-competitive wages. We had multiple experience that were similar or worse than the service I would expect at a bad fast-food place. Still saw problems with garbage not being emptied and bad smells in the parks like we have never experienced before too.

Which shows me Disney's headspace. They think they can somehow cater to the rich by raising prices, but offering an inferior product. That's not how it works. You have to actually add more value if you want to increase prices, and they are literally doing the opposite. Once unbearable overcrowding hits again, there is zero chance we will pay premium prices for the parks. We already have next year's vacations booked outside of Disney parks. If any thing, we will drop in for a 1-2 day long-weekend and spend a fraction of what we did this year. They are going to both push out the middle-class who can't afford it, and the people who could afford the increased cost, but won't see the value in spending their travel money with Disney anymore.

Great points!

And one other thing that is so different about Genie+ compared to Max Pass:

While you wait in a long standby line for the top attractions missing from Genie+, good luck on managing your Genie+ passes if you can even stack rides.

 

[Drewski77]

How does this change anyones daily plan? Everyone is gonna do the exact same thing as today. You try and get a RotR BG, you rope drop the rides you want to do. If you purchase Genie+ you get one more ride guarantee ahead of park opening and wing it from there based on availability. I am not even sure Genie+ is worth it in California. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I think most of us are comparing how Disneyland was prior to the shutdown with a free Fastpass and what Max Pass offered versus Genie+, VQ’s, LL, etc.

 

[mich311e]

So if we don't get LL - are we all going to rope drop RSR or Space Mountain, depending on the park? (I kid, but kinda not)

 

[lcp9]

They are going to both push out the middle-class who can't afford it, and the people who could afford the increased cost, but won't see the value in spending their travel money with Disney anymore.

Exactly. We do fairly well - my husband is a dentist - with 4 kids. Disneyland should be our Mecca. Just because I have money doesn't mean I want to blow $80-100 on a single ride for fast(er) entry when I've already paid for a ticket AND G+...it's the principle of it.

 

[Chickinvic]

Whether I lived next door to Disneyland or stayed at the Grand, I wouldn’t enjoy not knowing if I can ride ROTR, paying for Genie+ without the top attractions, and paying extra for certain rides.

That is your choice. It wouldn't bother me. I can wait years to ride ROTR if need be (since I refuse to wait stupid times for any ride). There is enough other stuff I enjoy.

 

[TikiTikiFan]

So if we don't get LL - are we all going to rope drop RSR or Space Mountain, depending on the park? (I kid, but kinda not)

Definitely, I'll see you there.

 

[Chickinvic]

When the parks are properly at full capactiy you're likely talking 2+ hour long standby lines for mutiple rides. Also maybe, I'm just getting old but I don't want to be staring at my phone the entire day. I want to be able to experience this place properly in person not via an app.

Most rides aren't even 2+ hours wait for standby lines even when fastpass was in full swing (stopping the standby lines a lot). Why would they be that long all the time under the new system, unless you are going on the busiest days of the year (in which case you are having those kinds of waits under the previous system too)?

 

[clarker99]

Great points!

And one other thing that is so different about Genie+ compared to Max Pass:

While you wait in a long standby line for the top attractions missing from Genie+, good luck on managing your Genie+ passes if you can even stack rides.

Exactly. We do fairly well - my husband is a dentist - with 4 kids. Disneyland should be our Mecca. Just because I have money doesn't mean I want to blow $80-100 on a single ride for fast(er) entry when I've already paid for a ticket AND G+...it's the principle of it.

Yawn. People take private tours for $500-600/hr for 8hrs for front of the line access and behind the scenes access. The Grand Cali is packed. There are plenty of people with money and happy to give it Disney. No one is being priced out unless they choose to be. Disney has been expensive forever yet consumer spend is up.
The number 1 thing people complain about is that the parks are TOO busy. How should Disney handle this problem by lowering the price?

Exactly. I think most here understand the new system just fine. It's the fact that the new system (without a free option) will not include all fastpass rides that is so bothersome. We understand there will still be a standby line. I think many of us would even be fine with the new fee-only version. But their is nothing in the system for the customer. It only benefits Disney. Disney used to want to maximize revenue by giving the best customer experience around. Now, it wants to do it by nickel and diming instead, and offering less and less value to the customer.

Edit to add:
And it isn't just with this new program. It is becoming more and more apparent in both innovation, new-attraction build times, delayed maintenance, pared-down janitorial service, pared-down hotel service, and most obvious to us on two recent trips, declining customer service, almost certainly due to offering less-than-competitive wages. We had multiple experience that were similar or worse than the service I would expect at a bad fast-food place. And we saw multiple times where 2-4 cast members were grouped together, having casual chats, not wanting to be bothered by customers. So I don't buy the ramping-up-labor issue Disney is floating to various outlets. There is a clear lack of management and motivated employees (of course, not all, but they appear to lost many of the best ones due to wages/layoffs).

Still saw problems with garbage not being emptied and bad smells in the parks like we have never experienced before too.

Which shows me Disney's headspace. They think they can somehow cater to the rich by raising prices, but offering an inferior product. That's not how it works. You have to actually add more value if you want to increase prices, and they are literally doing the opposite. Once unbearable overcrowding hits again, there is zero chance we will pay premium prices for the parks. We already have next year's vacations booked outside of Disney parks. If anything, we will drop in for a 1-2 day long-weekend visit and spend a fraction of what we did this year. They are going to both push out the middle-class who can't afford it, and the people who could afford the increased cost, but won't see the value in spending their travel money with Disney anymore.

Yawn. People take private tours for $500-600/hr for 8hrs for front of the line access and behind the scenes access. The Grand Cali is packed. DVC is thriving. People falling over themselves for merch, cant get a dinner reservation, etc etc. There are plenty of people with money and happy to give it Disney. No one is being priced out unless they choose to be. And there is always another family to take their place.

Disney has been expensive forever yet consumer spend is up. Your complaints were the same ones being claimed 20yrs ago. Too expensive, not worth it, people will stop going etc etc. People underestimate the power of nostalgia and Disney does it better than anyone.

I am happy you have decided to travel elsewhere and honestly I dont think Disney minds either.

 

[Drewski77]

That is your choice. It wouldn't bother me. I can wait years to ride ROTR if need be (since I refuse to wait stupid times for any ride). There is enough other stuff I enjoy.

That is the great thing, we can all make our own choices. I simply said that I will not enjoy the new setup Disneyland will have.

 

[Drewski77]

Yawn. People take private tours for $500-600/hr for 8hrs for front of the line access and behind the scenes access. The Grand Cali is packed. There are plenty of people with money and happy to give it Disney. No one is being priced out unless they choose to be. Disney has been expensive forever yet consumer spend is up.
The number 1 thing people complain about is that the parks are TOO busy. How should Disney handle this problem by lowering the price?

Yawn. People take private tours for $500-600/hr for 8hrs for front of the line access and behind the scenes access. The Grand Cali is packed. DVC is thriving. People falling over themselves for merch, cant get a dinner reservation, etc etc. There are plenty of people with money and happy to give it Disney. No one is being priced out unless they choose to be. And there is always another family to take their place.

Disney has been expensive forever yet consumer spend is up. Your complaints were the same ones being claimed 20yrs ago. Too expensive, not worth it, people will stop going etc etc. People underestimate the power of nostalgia and Disney does it better than anyone.

I am happy you have decided to travel elsewhere and honestly I dont think Disney minds either.

Yawn. Many of us, myself included, have gone out of our way to say it is not so much about the cost…rather, it is the reduced experience driving our displeasure with the changes.

Not sure why you’d be happy (or not happy) with random people not going to Disneyland as much…but I for one truly wish everyone the greatest of time, and we’ll be back, just not as frequently.

 

[Epicnemesis]

Yawn. People take private tours for $500-600/hr for 8hrs for front of the line access and behind the scenes access. The Grand Cali is packed. There are plenty of people with money and happy to give it Disney. No one is being priced out unless they choose to be. Disney has been expensive forever yet consumer spend is up.
The number 1 thing people complain about is that the parks are TOO busy. How should Disney handle this problem by lowering the price?

Yawn. People take private tours for $500-600/hr for 8hrs for front of the line access and behind the scenes access. The Grand Cali is packed. DVC is thriving. People falling over themselves for merch, cant get a dinner reservation, etc etc. There are plenty of people with money and happy to give it Disney. No one is being priced out unless they choose to be. And there is always another family to take their place.

Disney has been expensive forever yet consumer spend is up. Your complaints were the same ones being claimed 20yrs ago. Too expensive, not worth it, people will stop going etc etc. People underestimate the power of nostalgia and Disney does it better than anyone.

I am happy you have decided to travel elsewhere and honestly I dont think Disney minds either.

Hey Mickey, relax a little, we are all huge fans of you and Minnie, no need to get so defensive, we just think your overlords have gone a step too far on the greed.

 

[NorthernCalMom]

So if we don't get LL - are we all going to rope drop RSR or Space Mountain, depending on the park? (I kid, but kinda not)

Get ready for the stampede…

 

[clarker99]

Yawn. Many of us, myself included, have gone out of our way to say it is not so much about the cost…rather, it is the reduced experience driving our displeasure with the changes.

Not sure why you’d be happy (or not happy) with random people not going to Disneyland as much…but I for one truly wish everyone the greatest of time, and we’ll be back, just not as frequently.

But isnt that all completely subjective? This is not a universal opinion or Disney Parks and Cruises would be empty. I am not here to praise rising prices but I am not sitting here with my head in the sand pretending supply and demand are not a thing. Disney are a massively data driven company and they have left money on the table for years with free fast pass. Disney is now asking for their perceived value in skipping the line (which is still cheaper than other companies). As companies close the gap bw price and value their customers feel ripped off but in reality you got away with it for a while. See Utility Theory.

I am happy that people can go on holidays and do what they want. I dont believe that person is priced out. They just chose to spend the money elsewhere. Seeing the world and doing other things is great.

 

[clarker99]

Hey Mickey, relax a little, we are all huge fans of you and Minnie, no need to get so defensive, we just think your overlords have gone a step too far on the greed.

Ha. Personally, I am more concerned with $5 popcorn, $6.75 pretzels and $18 cocktails than $20 for Genie+.

 

[clarker99]

Does this logic track? I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed with all the individual details...Standby, Virtual, Genie, Genie+, LL

So let's say DS goes nuts over ROTR (we've never been) and wants to ride it all day long. Obviously that's not happening, however am I correct in thinking the Max number of times he "could" go per day would be Three? Join a virtual queue, and then pay two times for a LL? That's it, right? I'm not missing any other options? (Oh...aside from Plaids! Should have included that in my list of options above)

To be clear, we're not going to pay for two rides each day or Plaids, just trying to be sure I'm not missing another reasonable option for more than one ride a day.

That is my understanding. 3 times wd be the most you cd ride RotR. Will be costly but possible. There will only be 2 a la carte rides per park (RotR/SM & RSR/Webslingers). You can ride anything other ride as much as you like (time permitting).

 

[clarker99]

So if we don't get LL - are we all going to rope drop RSR or Space Mountain, depending on the park? (I kid, but kinda not)

This is already happening now (esp RSR).