"Godless Heathens" Support thread - no bashing please :)

[caitycaity]

My answer: the point is living now in your family and children. I just couldn't believe that their children weren't enough to keep them living in the moment. They have to "know" that there's always something better waiting. That I don't understand.

ita with you on this. i don't have kids, but i hope to someday, and as (i think) amanda posted a little ways back -- life here on earth is an awesome thing. even though there are a lot of problems, and a lot of sadness, there is a lot of good and a lot of really wonderful things going on in the here and now.

 

[wvrevy]

I've seen that very sentiment on this board. People that say they couldn't be happy, their marriage wouldn't work, they wouldn't be able to "make it" in life...I just don't get it. I think I'm generally a pretty happy guy, I've got a wonderful relationship with my wife and I'm pretty tightly wrapped around DD's tiny little finger , and I do just fine with life, the universe, and everything (RIP Mr. Adams)...and all of that on my own. I don't need to blame some outside "plan" when things don't go as I'd hoped they would, nor do I wish to give away the credit for things I have done, both personally and professionally.

I just don't see the appeal, save to be used as a "crutch" for those that cannot manage their own lives. Personally, I'd rather spend my Sunday mornings on a golf course.

 

[kasar]

I feel a special affinity toward Mary too. I think thats definately a Catholic thing, no? We Catholics (cultural or otherwise) do love our Mary.

Have you read Looking for Mary? It's a wonderful book about our relationships with Mary (not too religious!) http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/A...4/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/103-1327893-5965435

 

[JennyMominRI]

ita with you on this. i don't have kids, but i hope to someday, and as (i think) amanda posted a little ways back -- life here on earth is an awesome thing. even though there are a lot of problems, and a lot of sadness, there is a lot of good and a lot of really wonderful things going on in the here and now.

One of the things I love most about Judaism is it's focus on life..Judaism doesn't really have a set doctrine on the world to come,just the belief that there is one..Our job is to focus on life..Tikkun Olam,which means repair the world. is pour goal .Not only is it our job to live a decent life,it is our responsability to make the world a better place then the one we were born into ..It's a partnership with G-d..It's not about what you get when it's all over.It's about what you do while your here..Life is a gift from G-d and it should not be wasted by focusing on what may or may not happen after we die.

My favorite verse and my motto for living..
I have set before thee life and death, the blessing and the curse; therefore choose life, that thou mayest live, thou and thy seed;

 

[vettechick99]

I don't think anyone here is a "Godless heathen"....and while I don't qualify for the discussion...just thought I would step in hear and mention that.

And especially you Jenny---you are not Godless at all...

And for everyone else...not a heathen.

Hope your thread remains in tact and free of intruders.

Heathen:

not acknowledging the God of Christianity and Judaism and Islam or

a person who does not acknowledge your God also

One who adheres to the religion of a people or nation that does not acknowledge the God of Judaism, Christianity, or Islam. Such persons considered as a group; the unconverted.

That's from dictionary.com. I think it describes us perfectly, no? I think the religious are the ones who give "heathens" a negative connotation.

 

[septbride2002]

I don't think anyone here is a "Godless heathen"....and while I don't qualify for the discussion...just thought I would step in hear and mention that.

And especially you Jenny---you are not Godless at all...

And for everyone else...not a heathen.

Hope your thread remains in tact and free of intruders.

darling you are always welcomed to post where I am. I enjoy our discussions!

~Amanda

 

[roger_ramjet]

Personally, I'd rather spend my Sunday mornings on a golf course.

I'd much rather sleep, to be honest. That is the entire point of Sunday mornings - they're not meant to really exist

 

[septbride2002]

Both of these women believe that the only thing worth living for is dying and being with their "Savior". They both said (and I'm generalizing here) "If there is no God and no Heaven, then what's the point?" My answer: the point is living now in your family and children. I just couldn't believe that their children weren't enough to keep them living in the moment. They have to "know" that there's always something better waiting. That I don't understand.

My Goodness that is sad! I find reasons to live everyday! Let me say I agree with Wvrevy My marraige worked fine when God wasn't a part of my life, and when he was. My children will be fine no matter how I choose to raise them. Because I accept responsibility for myself and I take actions to insure the quality of life I have. Is all of that because of God? I don't know - he gave me free will and I'd like to think I've used some of it to be a success!

~Amanda

 

[wvrevy]

I'd much rather sleep, to be honest. That is the entire point of Sunday mornings - they're not meant to really exist

Yeah, but between the sleepers and the god squad, I can get a pretty good tee time.

As to the topic at hand, if there is a "big guy in the sky", I figure he's probably ok with me living my life as I do. Taking care of my family, giving time and money to charity, standing up for those that can't stand up for themselves, being an advocate for peace before war....Seems to me, those are exactly the kind of things he supposedly wants out of us. If she/he/it is really "up there" and decides to hold it against me that I didn't buy the hype and "worship" her/him/them/it...oh well. Who really wants to hang out with an egomaniac, anyway ?

 

[roger_ramjet]

Yeah, but between the sleepers and the god squad, I can get a pretty good tee time.

As to the topic at hand, if there is a "big guy in the sky", I figure he's probably ok with me living my life as I do. Taking care of my family, giving time and money to charity, standing up for those that can't stand up for themselves, being an advocate for peace before war....Seems to me, those are exactly the kind of things he supposedly wants out of us. If she/he/it is really "up there" and decides to hold it against me that I didn't buy the hype and "worship" her/him/them/it...oh well. Who really wants to hang out with an egomaniac, anyway ?

That's a good point, but I'll let you enthusiastic golfers get in early, it's no skin off my nose

As for your topical parapraph, those are pretty much my thoughts. So long as I'm a nice kinda bloke, I'm sure if there's some old fella with a beard upstairs looking down and following me he probably wont be too harsh on me. No doubt he'd note that I'm not perfect, but who is? I'd rather not worship a narcissist either - and I have no doubt that if there is a supreme being, he ain't one of those.

 

[barbeml]

I think many of you would enjoy some or all of these:

"The Demon Haunted World" by Carl Sagan
"Only Begotten Daughter" by James Morrow
"Towing Jehovah" by James Morrow
"Waiting for the Galactic Bus" by Parke Godwin
"The Snake Oil Wars" (sequel to Bus) by Parke Godwin

 

[wvrevy]

While we're on the "good reads" tangent, I just couldn't let it pass without putting in a plug for my all-time favorite book, "Stranger in a Strange Land" by Robert Heinlein. It's about a man that was born on Mars (stick with me for a sec), but is brought to earth in his 20's and exposed to religion for the first time. Takes a very interesting "outsiders" look at earthly religions, including quite a few very thinly veiled shots across the bows of the holier-than-thou types. Basically, the final decision that Michael (the "martian" makes) makes boils down to just three words: "Thou art god."

Seriously, if you enjoy intelligent-but-entertaining reading, I can't recommend this book highly enough. ('Course, I'd recommend just about anything by Heinlein, but that's just me )

 

[phisigprincess]

The biggest problem I have with our Catholic diocese right now is how they are using God to play politics. Our Archbishop has no problem denying communion to politicians who vote pro-choice. To me that is an abuse of power. Or how before the election they sent out all sorts of mailers about the wrongs of gay marriage. It makes me sick. MEN (by that I mean Men and Women) are afraid of homosexuals, God is not. God loves all his children including homosexuals. If anything I think God gives us homosexuals as a test of our humanity. Will we shun them as the lepers were shunned in the bible? Or will we treat them as we would want to be treated. Thus far we are failing the test. And that could be wrong as well. I'm speculating here because I do not know. But I know I don't want to be standing with St. Peter and told - you can't come in because you were so vengnceful to your neighbor instead of excepting him for who he is. You denied him the Lord's love because you were being self-righteous.

~Amanda

BINGO! I think this is why we were sparring before. I think my diocese and my church in particular is much more open and treats these issues with much more delicacy. I don't think my pastor has ever thought to come out and condemn people just because of their beliefs and lifestyles. He always makes it clear what the church teaches in a way that's not polarizing to the congregation. We were coming at the faith from two different points of reference. I would probably feel the exact same way you do if my church was like that. Moving to Pittsburgh any time soon?

 

[chrissyk]

Godless heathen checking in here DH and I are "recovering Catholics" (I've gotten bashed for using that term on here before). We're both lifelong athiests/agnostics who were raised Catholic. We're planning to raise our kids as freethinkers (athiests). My family makes comments, but I really don't care. They think that going to church makes them great people, when in fact that 1 hour a week does nothing to absolve them of how they treat other people for the rest of the week

I have a question for others who are raising freethinking children. Are there any good books out there for kids being raised with this belief system? Also, how do you give your kids a strong enough freethinking foundation that they won't be likely to go off in search of religion when they get older? I would like to give my kids a fighting chance not to get sucked into some religious group or other when they go off to college/adult life. That said, it's their choice if they do and I'll respect it either way.

 

[septbride2002]

BINGO! I think this is why we were sparring before. I think my diocese and my church in particular is much more open and treats these issues with much more delicacy. I don't think my pastor has ever thought to come out and condemn people just because of their beliefs and lifestyles. He always makes it clear what the church teaches in a way that's not polarizing to the congregation. We were coming at the faith from two different points of reference. I would probably feel the exact same way you do if my church was like that. Moving to Pittsburgh any time soon?

I do love my city! This new Arch Bishop we have is very polarizing. Evidently molesting children - okay. Being Gay - not so much. It is very frustrating and one of the reasons I have left the church and not returned. Many parishes in his diocese feel the need to stand in line with him. Of course they may have noticed that those parishes that didn't suddenly had a lot more vatican involvement. Till this is over, I can't go to church - it just wouldn't feel right.

I hear Pittsburgh is nice though!

~Amanda

 

[JennyMominRI]

BINGO! I think this is why we were sparring before. I think my diocese and my church in particular is much more open and treats these issues with much more delicacy. I don't think my pastor has ever thought to come out and condemn people just because of their beliefs and lifestyles. He always makes it clear what the church teaches in a way that's not polarizing to the congregation. We were coming at the faith from two different points of reference. I would probably feel the exact same way you do if my church was like that. Moving to Pittsburgh any time soon?

My mother was told by her Catholic Chuch that she would be commiting a mortal sin by voting for John Kerry,because he is pro-choice... She would be putting her immortal soul in danger..My mother,the life long Democrat voted for George Bush

 

[chadfromdallas]

My mother was told by her Catholic Chuch that she would be commiting a mortal sin by voting for John Kerry,because he is pro-choice... She would be putting her immortal soul in danger..My mother,the life long Democrat voted for George Bush

 

[tw1nsmom]

DH and I were both raised Catholic, but no longer practice. Our families don't really bother us about religeon, but I recently joined the Unitarian Universalist church with the children (DH doesn't want anything to do with organized religion, even UU). When I tell people, I get a lot of "Ohhh, that's niiice.", said in a way that means "I knew she was a fruitloop all along."

My mom was thrilled and even brought my grandmother to the children's dedication/rose ceremony. I asked MIL to come and she said she had to go to mass at that time. She's the queen of passive aggressive. She didn't even end up going to mass that day, but there's no way she would have come....it would have meant she approved of a parenting decision that I made.

 

[barbeml]

My mother was told by her Catholic Chuch that she would be commiting a mortal sin by voting for John Kerry,because he is pro-choice... She would be putting her immortal soul in danger..My mother,the life long Democrat voted for George Bush

You know, the time has REALLY come for religious groups to start paying taxes.

 

[snoopy]

My mother was told by her Catholic Chuch that she would be commiting a mortal sin by voting for John Kerry,because he is pro-choice... She would be putting her immortal soul in danger..My mother,the life long Democrat voted for George Bush

Thats terrible. No one talked about the election at my church, other than a mention in the prayers of the faithful for the candidates and the voters. There are certainly plenty of Democrats in our parish judging from the bumper stickers I've see on the cars in the parking lot! Then again, this is a town that is 95% Democrat, so I'm sure a Priest telling his congregation that voting for Kerry would have landed them in Hell would not have been well received.