GM to lay off 30,000 people

[CharlesTD]

I have owned 2 japanese car and that was it I will never buy another one I had a 92 Honda Civic hatchback Si model and it was the biggest piece of crap I also had an 05 Odyssey and it was also garbage and we returned it within the 30 day grace period and replaced it with an 05 Montana and couldn't be happier.

 

[NJBlackBerry]

As part of the UAW contract to ensure "peace", the laid off workers get paid even though the plant is shut down. GM is shutting down the plants, but the workers still get paid.

 

[Chicago526]

As part of the UAW contract to ensure "peace", the laid off workers get paid even though the plant is shut down. GM is shutting down the plants, but the workers still get paid.

For how long? A few months? Six months? A year? Just curious.

 

[tandrjohn]

For how long? A few months? Six months? A year? Just curious.

Per the contract, layed-off workers continue to receive pay/benefits until the contract expires in 2007.

 

[Chicago526]

Per the contract, layed-off workers continue to receive pay/benefits until the contract expires in 2007.

WOW! Plenty of time to look for new work or re-train for a better/differant job all together! And it keeps them off the unemployment roles.

The towns will still suffer, I'd think, as I'm sure many will still cut back spending and/or move away to find other work.

 

[ducklite]

While I know some will disagree, the facts prove what I'm about to say.

Unions kill jobs.

An overwhelming number of companies that have shut their doors over the past ten years have been union shops. They have gone under while their non-union competition has thrived. Case in point, airlines. While union bsed legacy carriers struggle, Southwest thrives. Case in point, grocery stores. While Grand Union went belly up, Wegman's gladly moved in and thrived.

Were unions at one point in history neccessary? Absolutely. However they have become beaucratic, power hungry, and fueled by nepotism. In many cases, members are getting nothing for their dues that they wouldn't get from management anyhow.

Many corporations are greedy. Absolutely. They have an obligation to their shareholders to control spending. My point is that employees should be making a fair wage based on prevailing market rates, not what a union feels they deserve. Why does someone who pushes a button on an assembly line all day deserve more than a prevailing wage--which is probably a lot less than they are making That job could be done by any untrained, unskilled person who would be thrilled to make $9 per hour with minimal benefits. It would also allow the US to compete at least a bit better in teh global economy.

I don't understand why someone with skills that aren't marketable in any field other than the one they are in, with no education past a HS diploma feels that they should be making $20-30 per hour on an assembly line. If they think they could find a better job, they are welcome to it. This is a free market economy, and with the ability to outsource jobs to the lowest bidder, those in many unions had best be taking some sort of training for a more marketable skill. The unions are hemmorhaging industry, and if they don't step back and realize it now, and work with industry rather than against it, they are only harming themselves.

Industry big wigs will receive fat severance packages and have skills which will allow them to move on. The guy working on the assembly line won't be so lucky. And he has no one to blame but his union.

Anne

 

[CarolA]

In TN the issue is going to be the "feeder" companies. They don't have union contracts that pay until 2007!

 

[eclectics]

It is sad to see this happening again. I grew up near John Deere's headquarters in Moline, IL. My father worked there. International Harvester and a few others were huge employers in our area for farming equipment. In the late 70's and early 80's I watched the unions push for more than the companies could pay out at the time. Strikes caused even more problems. Next thing you know, huge manufacturing plants were being closed, layoffs were everywhere, and many of my friend's parents lost their jobs and moved. To this day, the area is still trying to come back after such a huge hit. Most of those foundries and manufactuing plants are still idle or have been bulldozed.


Luckily, my father didn't lose his job, but he did get moved to another dept. and took a big pay loss to keep his job.


I wish people would really think long and hard before they claim a company can/should pay X amount for certain benefits and pay increases.

I'm not a huge union fan myself in the pay demands debate, but you can't put all the blame on them. One can only shudder to think what the industrial makeup would be without them. Even with the unions, big business is closing plants and sending all our manufacturing and also a lot of other jobs overseas. I can only imagine what a sorry state it would be like without unions. I don't believe in trickle down economics and I don't believe in the "don't worry, the company will take care of you" mentality either. Let's face it. The bottom line is profit. The big CEO's really don't give a hoot about the average worker.

 

[tandrjohn]

When will GM admit that 75% of their problems exist because their cars and trucks look like elementary school drawings; or are bad rip-offs from the competition? GM churns out one ugly, hacked up Aztec-like abortion after another … and they expect to sell that junk? Or, they choose to simply rip-off the competition … create an uglier version of the PT Cruiser, or slap a Jeep grill on a Hummer, or use the front end off a Jaguar for the LaCrosse?

The list can continue … Imitation may be flattery, but it won't sell cars. Let's look into the 2006 Model Year for a second … the design staff has, unfortunately, once again been left alone to generate their own ideas and what does the potential GM buyer get? Just another round of pooped out gems like the aforementioned Aztec and the equally dreadful Avalanche. They get a new, insipid looking front end to their minivans. They get the ridiculous looking Malibu Maxx that can't figure out if it's an old X-body, a coupe or a bad looking station wagon. And, of course, they get the laughably unchanged Astro vans and the throw-away Gran-Prix's … is there any wonder why GM is taking the tubes?

Honestly, when did GM give the vehicle market a new, novel, trend-setting and good looking vehicle? They were late to the mini-van party, late to the cross-over party, late to truck with amenities party, late to the station wagon party, and late to the luxury import party. The only "feather-in-the-cap" that they can point to is Saturn. The stumbling giant that is GM will not regain it's feet with the tiny, and inexpensive, Saturn brand. If not for Corvette, Escalade, Cadillac and Saturn … GM should have been bankrupt in the first quarter of '05. Take all of the aforementioned reasons and add in two BRILLIANT decisions of years past: 1.) Do away with the HUGE money maker's: the Camaro and the Firebird [both were throw-away cheap piles of garbage, but they had style and everyone wanted to buy one] and, 2.) To produce niche vehicles like the "love-it-or-hate-it" two seater SSR and the 2-seater Solstice. [Which, by the way, is the only NEW vehicle that has come out of GM that is worth looking at.]

Obviously, the only people that now work in marketing over at GM are single, 20-somethings who all got vasectomy's for their birthday's last year. Isn't the current product line-up proof? Looks like a lot was spent on 2 seaters and anything that seats more than 2 has been left to rot and decay. It's only the beginning of the end …unless … we sure hope that GM has some "home runs" scraped in clay … or over in the mock-up area … otherwise, no matter how many plants close and no matter how many people are laid off … GM will not only go bankrupt, they may very well be passed by. Blown by. And, not only by Toyota, but also by DaimlerChrysler, Ford and Honda.

 

[caitycaity]

chrissyk, i agree with you 100%.

 

[AllyandJack]

If they have to pay the people until 2007, how are they going to save all this money in 2006??

 

[ducklite]

, 2.) To produce niche vehicles like the "love-it-or-hate-it" two seater SSR and the 2-seater Solstice. [Which, by the way, is the only NEW vehicle that has come out of GM that is worth looking at.]

Saturn is adding a two seater, the Sky. I'm top of the wait list to order one--been waiting since I first saw it almost a year ago now--the calendar Saturn sent me to mark off the days until it's available for order tells me I've got about 110 days left.

Anne

 

[tandrjohn]

If they have to pay the people until 2007, how are they going to save all this money in 2006??

Per the contract, only employees who are laid-off will be paid until 2007. GM HOPES to accomplish most of the attrition through buy-outs and early retirements. This way, GM will be able to at least get them off the active payroll.

 

[mickeysgal]

Let's face it. The bottom line is profit. The big CEO's really don't give a hoot about the average worker.

Its the goal of any company...profit. As it should be....to a point. There certainly doesn't seem to be an appreciate for the loyalty that employees have given for years of dedication. CEOs and other upper management positions aren't with the company for years and years as in the past. They're more short-term. Couple this with dangling carrot of huge bonus percentages and stock options payouts to upper managment. Those CEOs, VPs, and the like don't see themselves hanging around for 20+ years, so I believe decisions are sometimes made to hit goals that will maximize their yearly bonuses but not necessarily for the overall long-term health of the companies. This, along with increasing heath care costs and perhaps the sometimes costly standards that unions enforce can easily create a house of cards thats hard for any company to withstand.

 

[tandrjohn]

Saturn is adding a two seater, the Sky. I'm top of the wait list to order one--been waiting since I first saw it almost a year ago now--the calendar Saturn sent me to mark off the days until it's available for order tells me I've got about 110 days left.

Anne

I did a quick search on the Sky...wow, that's a nice looking car! Congratulations!!! Are you being quoted a price yet...around $25,000? Just curious.

 

[TDC Nala]

Obviously, the only people that now work in marketing over at GM are single, 20-somethings who all got vasectomy's for their birthday's last year.

Even the women?

 

[ducklite]

I did a quick search on the Sky...wow, that's a nice looking car! Congratulations!!! Are you being quoted a price yet...around $25,000? Just curious.

Nothing official yet, but I was told by a sales manager that it will run in the mid-20's, fully loaded maybe around $30K. At that price I don't even need to stop and think about it. Because I plan on getting it in a standard without the turbocharger, even with adding leather seats and the top of the line Saturn sound system (has an MP3 plyer which most others don't offer!) my guess is that it will be *maybe*$28K. I'll trade in my ION, but I'm keeping the L-200 so I have a car with a little cargo space if I need it. The L just cost me a whoping $24 for an oil change--I need to do that twice a year with the miles I don't put on it

Anne

 

[Chicago526]

Its the goal of any company...profit. As it should be....to a point. There certainly doesn't seem to be an appreciate for the loyalty that employees have given for years of dedication. CEOs and other upper management positions aren't with the company for years and years as in the past. They're more short-term. Couple this with dangling carrot of huge bonus percentages and stock options payouts to upper managment. Those CEOs, VPs, and the like don't see themselves hanging around for 20+ years, so I believe decisions are sometimes made to hit goals that will maximize their yearly bonuses but not necessarily for the overall long-term health of the companies. This, along with increasing heath care costs and perhaps the sometimes costly standards that unions enforce can easily create a house of cards thats hard for any company to withstand.

Now THIS is a well thought out post! And I think very accurate.

Once you get outside of manufacturing and other "blue coller" work, you don't see many unions, but a lot of other types of jobs are ALSO being outsourced to other nations, especially call centers and computer programing. It's time to worry when jobs that require 4 year college degrees are being shipped out! Now, I'm not saying that corporations should keep jobs here soley to suport workers, but on the other hand, who's going to buy their products if a huge percentage of the former middle class is now making $8 an hour at Starbucks after the plant closed down?

This whole thing does lead me to wonder, what kinds of jobs will there be for my kids in 20 years? I said in another thread that I'm going to make my kids be plumbers or carpenters. I was halk jokeing. Now I wonder if I really SHOULD push them into the trades?

Either that, or have them get a Masters in Business Management and then THEY can become CEO's or COO's with 7 figure golden parachutes!

 

[eclectics]

Its the goal of any company...profit. As it should be....to a point. There certainly doesn't seem to be an appreciate for the loyalty that employees have given for years of dedication. CEOs and other upper management positions aren't with the company for years and years as in the past. They're more short-term. Couple this with dangling carrot of huge bonus percentages and stock options payouts to upper managment. Those CEOs, VPs, and the like don't see themselves hanging around for 20+ years, so I believe decisions are sometimes made to hit goals that will maximize their yearly bonuses but not necessarily for the overall long-term health of the companies. This, along with increasing heath care costs and perhaps the sometimes costly standards that unions enforce can easily create a house of cards thats hard for any company to withstand.

ITA. Greedy short term CEO's, Senior Executives, and Corporate Raiders, Health Care Costs (somebody better do something, and sooner rather than later!), and unreasonable union demands (certainly not across the board, and certainly not the main problem). It all adds up as you said. I fear soon there won't be many middle class blue collar jobs left in this country.

 

[ducklite]

This whole thing does lead me to wonder, what kinds of jobs will there be for my kids in 20 years? I said in another thread that I'm going to make my kids be plumbers or carpenters. I was halk jokeing. Now I wonder if I really SHOULD push them into the trades?

Either that, or have them get a Masters in Business Management and then THEY can become CEO's or COO's with 7 figure golden parachutes!

Make sure they learn Hindi, Russion, or Chinese and they'll be all set.

My DH is a programmer (technical analyst). HE's a team leader. While his job isn't guaranteed, if the company he works for were to outsource his department (they've outsourced a lot of I/T functions already) the hope is that he'd be kept on as a liason. But nothings guaranteed. Thankfully he's got past experience as an electrician and has a Class A (tractor trailer) license, so we wouldn't starve.

I left an I/T position to go back into marketing. It doesn't pay as well, but it's a little less likely to be outsourced. The company I ended up with is one that will do well in any economy, because they sell both needs and wants.

Anne