"Giving away" your daughter at her wedding

[LongLiveDisney]

It was a joke.

I see.

 

[EMHDad]

I was married 20 years ago last October.

My husband asked my Dad for my hand in marriage(my mom had passed away 6 months earlier). My Dad went shopping with me for my wedding dress. My Dad walked me down the aisle and he was asked "who gives this woman in marriage?" and he cried and answered "I do".

I never even crossed my mine that I was property. The only thing that crossed my mind was that I was loved. My husband was so concerned about that our wedding would be too soon after my Mom's death that he wanted Dad to be okay with it. I will always cherish the pictures that I have of my Dad walking me down the aisle and giving me a hug and kiss and putting my veil back.

That was love.

My dad died 3 months before my sister's wedding. I ended up walking her down in his place. It was one of my biggest honors of my life.

 

[bunkkinsmom]

Why are men and women treated differently when it comes to the ceremony? Why is it respectful for the man to ask the bride's father for permission but not for the her to ask his parents?

Don't we care about our sons as much? If the meaning has changed and these rituals are about respect rather than daughter's being property, then why are we not extending this same respect to our sons?

I have a son. Don't presume that you know anything about the respect issue when it comes to each individual family. Are you truly asking these questions or is this your way of trying to make a point?

IN MY OPINION men and women are treated differently because WE ARE DIFFERENT. Flame me if you will, but we are different. I personally enjoy having doors held open for me. I enjoyed being walked down the aisle by my father. I enjoy cooking Thanksgiving dinner while my DH and FIL watch football (with my SIL by the way). Can I open my own doors? Can I walk myself down the aisle? Can I recite more football stats than anyone else in that room? Abso-freakin-lutely. But why on earth do I need to prove that to anyone? I teach my son to stand and give ladies his seat in appropriate situations. I teach my son to hold doors open for women. My son will be taught to ask a father before proposing.

I will answer your previous questions in hopes that they are truly questions:

Websters defines "ceremony": : a formal act or series of acts prescribed by ritual, protocol, or convention.

Using that definition, each participant has a role to ply according to ritual, protocol, or convention. So that's why they are treated differently.

In answer to your second question, if it is the man proposing, then he should be the one to ask. If the bride proposes to the groom, I see it as the same, and she should ask his parents.

I believe I have already answered your last two.

 

[tripletsmama]

In answer to your second question, if it is the man proposing, then he should be the one to ask. If the bride proposes to the groom, I see it as the same, and she should ask his parents.

This is an interesting concept. So if the woman proposes, should the man be the one escorted down the aisle? By his mother? Father?

kidding

 

[superme80]

My family is pretty tradtitional and conservative, so DH was required to get my dad's blessing before he proposed. My dad also gave DH a little "talk" when we first started dating. DH knew I would never marry someone my parents did not approve of. I knew I was welcomed into DH's family when his step father gave us the gem for my engagement ring. Everyone has different beliefs which is why ceremonies are so different.

 

[joviroxx]

Man, can people totally overthink things.

My thoughts exactly

 

[Jaya]

This is an interesting concept. So if the woman proposes, should the man be the one escorted down the aisle? By his mother? Father?

kidding

Anybody remember the tv show "Taxi", when Latka and Simka got married (Andy Kauffman and Carol Kane)? They were from some undisclosed Balkan-esque country and it was the tradition that the groom wear a wedding dress. Latka's mother came for the wedding and said "Oh, I've waiting for so many years to see you wearing your father's wedding dress!" Simka was required to walk around Latka three times balancing a huge wreath of flowers on her head. If she could keep the flowers on her head for all three trips around, it proved that she was a virgin. About 3/4 of the way around the first time, the wreath exploded. Now there are some "customs" that would definitely liven up a wedding!

 

[Planogirl]

I'm very independent and always have been. I believe in equality and treating people the same as much as possible.

However I see this type of thing as a harmless tradition. I'm more concerned over whether women will be treated fairly in the workplace and so on than an old-fashioned question asked at a wedding.

 

[Jaya]

At my best friend's wedding, her father got so flustered that when asked "who giveth this woman to be married", he answered "her mother and father and I do." We razzed him about that for years.

 

[teacherforhi]

Wouldn't your wedding band essentially indicate possession that you are against?? You "belong" to your husband. The ring signifies this. OR could it be viewed as a symbol of you love for each other? Imo walking a daughter down the asile can signify love vs possession. Not everything is so black and white.

Sent from my Samsung S3 using DISBoards

Um...we BOTH wear a wedding band. We belong to each other. My issue is with the traditions that point to the wife as property.

 

[emer95]

At my best friend's wedding, her father got so flustered that when asked "who giveth this woman to be married", he answered "her mother and father and I do." We razzed him about that for years.

This just made me literally LOL! I'll bet he never lives that down!

 

[Ember]

To all the people who don't understand the need to think about these things, I would offer that the sexist traditions of marriage ceremonies are actually quite pervasive when taken together:

(Note: I am not saying everyone does these things. But they are all traditional.)

- The man asks permission/approval/for the blessing of the father.
- The man asks the woman to get married. She can range between hopeful of the proposal, or surprised, but it is his decision.
- Women receive an engagement ring. It starts on day one. Why is the tradition that you wear a ring that marks you as taken, while he wears nothing?
- The woman has a shower to "set up her new home."
- Men have a stag, because they have to have a last night out before they chain themselves to a woman. (Yes, stagettes/hens nights are more common now.)
- Women plan the wedding. It is a pivotal day in their lives, taking months or years to plan. They have dreamed about it and imagined it. Most men just show up.
- Women have rituals associated with preparing to wed. They wear something borrowed, etc. to bring the marriage luck. In many cultures there is a cleansing ritual to purify the woman. Men get dressed.
- The tradition that the brides parents pay for the wedding, while the grooms parents skate by relatively unscathed, has troubling roots in dowries.
- Women are given away/escorted/presented. Men stand on their own.
- The veil is lifted, a tradition rife with symbolism.
- In some ceremonies women promise to obey.
- "You many now kiss the bride." The man initiates the marriage.
- Women change their title from Miss to Mrs. Because their status has changed. Men, however, remain the same. Their marital status is not disclosed through their title.
- Woman change their last name, sometimes becoming Mrs. HisFristName HisLastName. In surveys many men would outright refuse to take a woman's last name. Some men refuse to marry if the woman doesn't change her name. It's important to them. Yet if a man feels it makes him less somehow to change his name, logically it follows that a woman is less for changing hers.
- The woman tosses her bouquet so that one unfortunate, single women can hopefully be married soon, too.

I am not saying any of these things is wrong, or that the symbolism hasn't or can't change. But the traditions of marriage are very sexist and patriarchal. To dismiss those who think about these things as "over thinking" is, in my opinion, just wrong. Traditions and history should be thought about. I might take the opposite view and say that those who follow tradition simply for traditions sake do so unthinkingly and blindly, not knowing what they participate in or why.

Again, just to be clear, I don't think the modern versions if some of these traditions are bad. I just also don't think that considering them, thinking about them, is bad either.

 

[chobie]

I have a son. Don't presume that you know anything about the respect issue when it comes to each individual family. Are you truly asking these questions or is this your way of trying to make a point?

IN MY OPINION men and women are treated differently because WE ARE DIFFERENT. Flame me if you will, but we are different. I personally enjoy having doors held open for me. I enjoyed being walked down the aisle by my father. I enjoy cooking Thanksgiving dinner while my DH and FIL watch football (with my SIL by the way). Can I open my own doors? Can I walk myself down the aisle? Can I recite more football stats than anyone else in that room? Abso-freakin-lutely. But why on earth do I need to prove that to anyone? I teach my son to stand and give ladies his seat in appropriate situations. I teach my son to hold doors open for women. My son will be taught to ask a father before proposing.

I will answer your previous questions in hopes that they are truly questions:

Websters defines "ceremony": : a formal act or series of acts prescribed by ritual, protocol, or convention.

Using that definition, each participant has a role to ply according to ritual, protocol, or convention. So that's why they are treated differently.

In answer to your second question, if it is the man proposing, then he should be the one to ask. If the bride proposes to the groom, I see it as the same, and she should ask his parents.

I believe I have already answered your last two.

Well, yes, they were "truly" questions. as you can see from my prior posts,if I wanted to make a statement, I would do just that.


As Ember pointed out below, it's ok to question rituals and traditions.

Seems to me anyone who felt completely comfortable with these double standards would not be getting peeved about others questioning them.

 

[bunkkinsmom]

To all the people who don't understand the need to think about these things, I would offer that the sexist traditions of marriage ceremonies are actually quite pervasive when taken together:

(Note: I am not saying everyone does these things. But they are all traditional.)

- The man asks permission/approval/for the blessing of the father.

approval and permission are two very different things.

- The man asks the woman to get married. She can range between hopeful of the proposal, or surprised, but it is his decision.

But the answer is not. She can say no, so technically, she is the decision maker. Sort of gives her the power in the relationship.

- Women receive an engagement ring. It starts on day one. Why is the tradition that you wear a ring that marks you as taken, while he wears nothing?

It's a gift. Not all history comes from ownership. Some believed that the veins running in the 3rd finger of the left hand ran straight to the heart.

- The woman has a shower to "set up her new home."

I'm not sure why this is bad? A woman's friends gathering around her to give her presents to help "set up her new home"?

- Men have a stag, because they have to have a last night out before they chain themselves to a woman. (Yes, stagettes/hens nights are more common now.)

It's only been in the last few decades that this has been the case. The history of this began with a dinner for the grooms friends to toast his marriage. It has only recently become the "party" that we know now.

- Women plan the wedding. It is a pivotal day in their lives, taking months or years to plan. They have dreamed about it and imagined it. Most men just show up.

that's not really a ritual. Weddings used to be simple ceremonies where the dress was passed down from Mother to Daughter. Only recently have they become events that needed huge planning.

- Women have rituals associated with preparing to wed. They wear something borrowed, etc. to bring the marriage luck. In many cultures there is a cleansing ritual to purify the woman. Men get dressed.

Simply not true. Many cultures have rituals involving the men. Something old represents continuity with the bride's family. Something new represents their new life together. Something borrowed is supposed to be from a family member or friend that has a happy marriage. Something blue represented the color of the Virgin Mary's robe and symbolized purity. One of the earliest versions of this rhyme also included "and a sliver sixpence in her shoe". In Scotland, the groom would put a silver sixpence in his shoe to symbolize financial security. Over time it moved to her shoe.

- The tradition that the brides parents pay for the wedding, while the grooms parents skate by relatively unscathed, has troubling roots in dowries.

Actually it symbolized the man taking over the finances in the relationship.

- Women are given away/escorted/presented. Men stand on their own.

We've been over that.

- The veil is lifted, a tradition rife with symbolism.

There is more than one explanation. In the Middle Ages, the veil was thought to keep away curses.

- In some ceremonies women promise to obey.

The Bible says obey for the women and directs men to love their wives as Jesus loves the church. It's not a mandated vow, as many here have attested to.

- "You many now kiss the bride." The man initiates the marriage.

Ancient Romans sealed every contract with a kiss. It was not considered legal until this happened.

- Women change their title from Miss to Mrs. Because their status has changed. Men, however, remain the same. Their marital status is not disclosed through their title.

It was to announce a woman's marital status to prospective men. That way a man would know right up front if a woman was available for courtship. Back then, a woman would not proposition a man, so there would be no need for him to announce his status.

- Woman change their last name, sometimes becoming Mrs. HisFristName HisLastName. In surveys many men would outright refuse to take a woman's last name. Some men refuse to marry if the woman doesn't change her name. It's important to them. Yet if a man feels it makes him less somehow to change his name, logically it follows that a woman is less for changing hers.

This one definitely dates back to change of property.

- The woman tosses her bouquet so that one unfortunate, single women can hopefully be married soon, too.

Women used to rip the clothing from the bride in order to obtain her "luck". The bride would toss her bouquet as an offering so that she could run away. And why is the recipient unfortunate? Why is marriage a bad thing?

I am not saying any of these things is wrong, or that the symbolism hasn't or can't change. But the traditions of marriage are very sexist and patriarchal. To dismiss those who think about these things as "over thinking" is, in my opinion, just wrong. Traditions and history should be thought about. I might take the opposite view and say that those who follow tradition simply for traditions sake do so unthinkingly and blindly, not knowing what they participate in or why.

Again, just to be clear, I don't think the modern versions if some of these traditions are bad. I just also don't think that considering them, thinking about them, is bad either.

Let's be clear on where these traditions originated. While some are steeped in ownership and property rights, most have evolved over time into what we see them as today. Not all of these symbolic events are as sexist and patriarchal as they have been made to appear.

I firmly believe that people should be educated on traditions and their origins. But I haven't seen as much uproar debating the tradition of Halloween, which is way creepier than marriage IMHO. Knowing about the past does not dictate your future, and you can make traditions within your own family. So just because I choose to honor certain traditions within my own marriage, that doesn't mean that I haven't considered them. It also doesn't mean that I don't understand how they have changed over the years. I have been to many a wedding where the bride and groom jumped the broom. Why is that OK? Because they are honoring a tradition from their heritage. That doesn't mean that they can't wear rings and that their marriage isn't legal.

I remember on a morning show a long time ago a male host had a very heated debate with a female host. He told a story of how he was painting his house with his buddies and his wife was inside making lunch and lemonade. Now this was just setting up another story, but the female host interrupted and started a huge thing about why would his wife be making lunch, why couldn't she help paint? She went on and on about how sexist it was that she was making lunch. She could paint just as well as the guys and should be allowed to. The male host kept saying that if she wanted to she could. It turned very ugly. For what?? I don't understand the argument. I have absolutely no desire to paint my house. If my husband wants to get a couple of friends together and climb around on ladders to paint my house, I will happily make sandwiches and lemonade in the air conditioned comfort of my kitchen. I don't need to prove to anyone that I can paint my house. Does he expect me to be barefoot in the kitchen? No, absolutely not. But what kind of friend would I be to not offer lunch and refreshments to people kind enough to paint my house. It's hospitality. If a man expects you to stay in the kitchen and be the only one keeping the home, and you disagree with that, then don't marry him. You can always say no. We as women get so caught up in "equality" that we sometimes feel we have something to prove. Well I for one don't. I am an amazing, smart, talented woman who has no fear of my talents and am aware of my shortcomings. Can I change my oil? Sure!! Why would I want to? If you want to, go right ahead and more power to you. The days of ownership of wives in America is all but over, let's move on to more important discussions, like equal pay for equal work.

 

[bunkkinsmom]

Well, yes, they were "truly" questions. as you can see from my prior posts,if I wanted to make a statement, I would do just that.


As Ember pointed out below, it's ok to question rituals and traditions.

Seems to me anyone who felt completely comfortable with these double standards would not be getting peeved about others questioning them.

Not sure why you think I'm getting peeved?

 

[chobie]

Not sure why you think I'm getting peeved?

Maybe it was twice you questioning my intentions about my posts, e.g., "truly questions"?

And the defensive sounding, "I'm sure I"ll get flamed" or "abso-freakinlutly". Sentences in all caps, etc.

 

[chobie]

I'm very independent and always have been. I believe in equality and treating people the same as much as possible.

However I see this type of thing as a harmless tradition. I'm more concerned over whether women will be treated fairly in the workplace and so on than an old-fashioned question asked at a wedding.

I agree. But, equal pay is not the topic of this thread. It's not something I think of on a regular basis, but the OP asked if we thought these traditions were outdated, and my answer was yes, based on the undisputed facts that the traditions come from a time before women were considered people. I'm not starting a campaign to end the practice.

 

[IheartMickey]

I haven't even read the entire post because it just goes down hill. I think many of you just like to argue. Why the heck get so heated about something that doesn't pertain to you at all? If you don't like it, don't do it at your wedding. Simple.

As for my own opinion, it's been done at all the weddings I've been to. I don't see the harm in it. I will be taking 'obey' out of my wedding vows though. That's just a personal choice and I don't care if other people decide to use it or not.

 

[chobie]

I haven't even read the entire post because it just goes down hill. I think many of you just like to argue. Why the heck get so heated about something that doesn't pertain to you at all? If you don't like it, don't do it at your wedding. Simple.

As for my own opinion, it's been done at all the weddings I've been to. I don't see the harm in it. I will be taking 'obey' out of my wedding vows though. That's just a personal choice and I don't care if other people decide to use it or not.

I don't understand why people get so heated about people discussing the topic posted on a discussion board.

If you think it's not an issue, don't read the thread, don't post on it. Why take time out of your life to talk about an issue you think is a nonissue?

If you want to keep traditions, then do it, don't worry if other people, when asked what they thought about the traditions, give their opinion.

Seems odd that just answering the questions posed in a thread gets met with hostility.

 

[mhsjax]

So for all you people that just can't stomach the old traditions steeped in male dominance, what do you think about honey moons? Do you still go on those little wonderful romantic get a ways? Because that is way more trouble some than any other tradition. Don't see anyone ready to give those up so quickly.