Girls at school spreading dangerous rumors (8th grade)

[gotomu212]

Sorry double post. I HATE how slow and laggy this site has become.

 

[ronandannette]

The way I'm reading it is not that the girls are accuser her son of attacker them, but that he's a racist, homophobic, rapist (which would be horrible to hear about your son but is very different than someone accusing him of assault).

Middle schoolers say incredibly stupid things. I wouldn't unnessarily throw fuel on this but just keep in touch with the counselor and your son to see if this fades away or becomes more serious. I'd also counsel your son about anything he might have said doing his heated debate- along with stupid crap middle schoolers say, boys can say especially homophobic things at this age (I was shocked at some of the stuff the normally sweet kids I tutored said on occasion - it's a lot of false bravado and extreme histrionics)

Sorry - the implication is very clear. Whether they understand the consequences of what they're doing or not, naming him a rapist is an accusation that he's assaulted someone, even if it's not them. In what world should that not be cause for alarm? Maybe I just don't spend enough time with young adolescents (thank God) to be able to totally blow-off such comments as being completely par-for-the-course. If these were my daughters I'd:
#1 Try everything in my power to determine whether or not the comments (about the assault, not the racism or homophobia) had any basis. First priority would be making sure my girls were unharmed.
#2 If I was confident they were just blowing smoke, any daughter of mine would be getting holy hell for throwing around such grave accusations.

 

[momz]

OP here. Just wanting to respond to the discussion here. I appreciate seeing all thoughts and opinions because I certainly don't want to over react and make things worse. I agree that many times engaging the school regarding an issue will only make that issue take longer to resolve. But, I also think that this is a far cry from just name calling or low level hallway bullying. He is 14 years old and an accusation of sexual assault, if it's believed, can follow him into high school and affect opportunities he may have there.

I have not heard "the other side of the story". I'm certain that the counselor will not share the details that she knows. There are very strict rules about what she can and cannot reveal to a parent. She can share with me what my child said, but she cannot share with me the names of any of the other kids, or what they said. She also cannot share what she did or did not discuss with the other kids, or if there was any discipline needed. They are very hush about that kind of thing. However, I know exactly who it is because my son told me. Also, his friend, who was also involved, told his mother a very similar version of events.

I am floored at the suggestion that I shouldn't "go to bat" for my son. I also don't understand the comment that I don't know which team I'm playing for. What does that even mean?

The girls are not claiming that DS victimized them. There are saying the he has been "going around <victimizing> girls." See the difference? There is no known victim here, there is not an accusation that he did a specific thing to a specific girl. This is a character assault that has no evidence and no basis in reality.

For now, I have told DS to avoid any interaction with these girls and to not discuss it with anybody. Tomorrow, I will speak with the counselor again and advise her as to what I discussed with DS. It should be noted that DS is the one that initiated the contact with the counselor. He is not in trouble for anything. He knew the situation had gone too far and he needed help dealing with it so he went to the counselor. He did the right thing and I have told him as much.

 

[momz]

Sorry - the implication is very clear. Whether they understand the consequences of what they're doing or not, naming him a rapist is an accusation that he's assaulted someone, even if it's not them. In what world should that not be cause for alarm? Maybe I just don't spend enough time with young adolescents (thank God) to be able to totally blow-off such comments as being completely par-for-the-course. If these were my daughters I'd:
#1 Try everything in my power to determine whether or not the comments (about the assault, not the racism or homophobia) had any basis. First priority would be making sure my girls were unharmed.
#2 If I was confident they were just blowing smoke, any daughter of mine would be getting holy hell for throwing around such grave accusations.

Thank you! I can see that you understand the seriousness of the issue. I absolutely agree that it's important to take all accusations seriously and assure the safety of any victim.

In this case, there is not a victim of assault, the girls have not claimed that they are victims themselves, and have not named a victim. I just don't think there is a victim in this case. I realize our prison systems are full of people who's mothers say "not my son". And in this situation, I think DS did the right thing by being proactive and seeking the help of the counselor in dealing with the accusation, otherwise, who knows how far it could go.

I know that the other kids were brought in to talk with the counselor. I can only assume that the girls did not make a specific accusation of assault because I did not get a follow up call concerning such a thing. I would imagine that law enforcement would be knocking on our door if that were the case.

We will see what tomorrow holds.

 

[NotBaroque]

So, to the first bolded part...you believe the justice system should function as a "guilty until proven innocent" system like some third world nations?
To the second bolded part..maybe you should look in the mirror on that one.

Victims should always, always, ALWAYS be believed. Further discussion is unnecessary. If you believe that a disclosure of sexual assault should be met with skepticism, there are simply no words to respond with at all.

Regarding your second statement... I am neither the OP nor the parent of one of the girls. Perhaps you are confused? (You need not respond as I do not intend to engage in further discussion.)

 

[AnnaFloridaLover]

Victims should always, always, ALWAYS be believed. Further discussion is unnecessary. If you believe that a disclosure of sexual assault should be met with skepticism, there are simply no words to respond with at all.

Regarding your second statement... I am neither the OP nor the parent of one of the girls. Perhaps you are confused? (You need not respond as I do not intend to engage in further discussion.)

The law is innocent until proven guilty no matter what you want to put out here. Maybe you should look up the law. You never know when someone could accuse you of something you didn't do.

 

[ronandannette]

Thank you! I can see that you understand the seriousness of the issue. I absolutely agree that it's important to take all accusations seriously and assure the safety of any victim.

In this case, there is not a victim of assault, the girls have not claimed that they are victims themselves, and have not named a victim. I just don't think there is a victim in this case. I realize our prison systems are full of people who's mothers say "not my son". And in this situation, I think DS did the right thing by being proactive and seeking the help of the counselor in dealing with the accusation, otherwise, who knows how far it could go.

I know that the other kids were brought in to talk with the counselor. I can only assume that the girls did not make a specific accusation of assault because I did not get a follow up call concerning such a thing. I would imagine that law enforcement would be knocking on our door if that were the case.

We will see what tomorrow holds.

Hang in there, Mom! I wish you all well.

 

[AquamarineSteph]

The only thing I can suggest is to ask your son what he might have said that was construed by others as racist, homophobic, etc.

 

[CarolAnn856]

Victims should always, always, ALWAYS be believed. Further discussion is unnecessary. If you believe that a disclosure of sexual assault should be met with skepticism, there are simply no words to respond with at all.

No. Our legal system is based on the concept of innocent until proven guilty, no matter what the alleged crime is.

I fully recognize that we, as a society, must improve the rate of reporting by victims of sexual assault. The stigma of reporting must be removed.

However, the idea of abandoning the very foundation of our justice system by neglecting to investigate and by assigning guilt by virtue of an accusation is not the solution and should be considered abhorrent to every citizen. That may be an easy way to improve reporting, but it certainly is not the right way. That being said, anyone involved with assisting a victim needs to be thoroughly trained in investigating techniques so that the accuser feels supported throughout the process. This should include careful and thorough explanations of how the justice system works, why an investigation is necessary, and what to expect during that investigation.

 

[sam_gordon]

But also, they accused DS of (in his words), "going around <assaulting> girls." The word assault is actually a different word that starts with an R.

There are saying the he has been "going around <victimizing> girls."

I'm curious why you're not saying what the girls are claiming. I'm pretty sure you can say "raping". Is that what the girls claim (according to your son)?

 

[Party.Of.4-NY>>>FL]

Victims should always, always, ALWAYS be believed. Further discussion is unnecessary. If you believe that a disclosure of sexual assault should be met with skepticism, there are simply no words to respond with at all.

Regarding your second statement... I am neither the OP nor the parent of one of the girls. Perhaps you are confused? (You need not respond as I do not intend to engage in further discussion.)

To the bolded:

That's only half true. Yes, while the victim's advocate(s), police, and prosecutors may work under the presumption the suspect is guilty and proceed to attempt to prove their guilt.

It is also true (and more important) that the judge and jury work under the presumption the suspect is innocent.

I personally would rather see 100 guilty suspects walk free than even 1 innocent suspect wrongfully convicted.

 

[Skywalker]

Victims should always, always, ALWAYS be believed. Further discussion is unnecessary. If you believe that a disclosure of sexual assault should be met with skepticism, there are simply no words to respond with at all.

Regarding your second statement... I am neither the OP nor the parent of one of the girls. Perhaps you are confused? (You need not respond as I do not intend to engage in further discussion.)

Oh heck, I'll respond anyway but thanks!

I 100% disagree with your assertion that accusers should always be believed. This isn't Salem, Mass. in the 1600s is it?

Also, since my second statement confused you, I'll explain. You said victims should always believed, no question. But you told OP she should find out all the facts before knowing which team to go to bat for? That is contradictory to me so I was saying maybe you need to look in the mirror because you, also, should think of each situation individually before knowing which team to bat for as well. I don't think its ever wise to mindlessly defend one side or the other.

 

[piccolopat]

Talk to the counselor again and make sure the school is talking to these girls to hear their side. If confirmed true, they need to be told their behavior is unacceptable and they should have to apologize to your son at the very least. Kids that do these sorts of things at this age without consequences will be more brazen when they get older. They learn if they don't like someone or a person's point of view they can simply make false accusations to give them grief and no one says a thing. This is how some people grow up and falsely accuse others of even worse things like rape and child abuse. I really disagree that something as serious as these accusations should be ignored but the school should handle it.

 

[piccolopat]

Victims should always, always, ALWAYS be believed. Further discussion is unnecessary. If you believe that a disclosure of sexual assault should be met with skepticism, there are simply no words to respond with at all.

You should read up on the Tawana Brawley case. You'll quickly learn that sometimes it is the accused who is the victim.

 

[ELKA]

The only thing I can suggest is to ask your son what he might have said that was construed by others as racist, homophobic, etc.

I don't think asking what he said makes a difference, these girls have learned that accusing others of being a racist, homophobic and then a rapist is acceptable behavior. There is no evidence of any misbehavior on the OP's son and the fact that he went to a councilor immediately tells me that he is very upset about even being perceived as someone who could do that.

 

[mjkacmom]

I have two 14 year olds, and due to us all being on the same iTunes account, every now and then, I've been privy to group texts. OMG the banter! The language! And these are nice kids I've known forever! I'm happy to say that both of my kids are rather quiet during these discussions, and most of it seems to be for shock value.

Just yesterday, a 14 on the boys soccer team group chat was told he was probably tired from s#cking too much ####.

 

[JaxDad]

I don't think asking what he said makes a difference, these girls have learned that accusing others of being a racist, homophobic and then a rapist is acceptable behavior. There is no evidence of any misbehavior on the OP's son and the fact that he went to a councilor immediately tells me that he is very upset about even being perceived as someone who could do that.

I think this part is significant. We see it all the time in the media. People are quick to call someone racist, homophobic, sexist, etc., often just because they have a different opinion from their own. It is a way of shutting down discussion and demonizing the other person, sometimes with little to no real substance behind the accusation. I would hate to see these words lose their meaning because of misuse and overuse, but I fear it is already happening.

 

[momz]

I'm curious why you're not saying what the girls are claiming. I'm pretty sure you can say "raping". Is that what the girls claim (according to your son)?

There are words that are not allowed on the dis. I was assuming (wrongly) that Rape was one of them.

Sorry.

They say he is "going around raping girls".

Ok now?

 

[sam_gordon]

There are words that are not allowed on the dis. I was assuming (wrongly) that Rape was one of them.

Sorry.

They say he is "going around raping girls".

Ok now?

Yes, it's fine. I just want to make sure we're correctly understanding what he says the girls said.

 

[momz]

I think you

I think this part is significant. We see it all the time in the media. People are quick to call someone racist, homophobic, sexist, etc., often just because they have a different opinion from their own. It is a way of shutting down discussion and demonizing the other person, sometimes with little to no real substance behind the accusation. I would hate to see these words lose their meaning because of misuse and overuse, but I fear it is already happening.

You hit the nail n the head here. You are absolutely right.

The four kids were discussing political issues that had to do with last November's elections. DS told the girls to give it a rest, Trump is in office and enough is enough, regarding them continuing to rehash the same arguments. That's when the comment was made. Something about his opinions not being valid because he is a "racist, homophobe" and he's be going around "raping " girls.

All of it is upsetting, goes too far and is untrue.