Girl Scouts - Privacy Rules

[Geoff_M]

Our council hands them out all the time. I am always having to turn down extra copies!

That's good to know. You can buy bound copies of the GTSS too. I was just surprised that Googling the "Safety-Wise" title didn't turn up any on-line copies at either the GSA site or any local council sites (though I only went a couple of pages into the search results). Before the BSA put their version on-line, local councils used to scan hard-copies and put PDFs on their sites. I clicked on their reference to the resource on the GSA site and it took me to their e-commerce page and wanted me to buy a copy.

If any GSA leaders know of an on-line PDF of their guide, I'd love to have a look at it!

 

[The Mystery Machine]

It seems to me that by asking what she will do when she gets to middle school, you are saying that this child will inevitably have to change in front of other people so the mother shouldn't complain. Perhaps I did understand you wrong and I apologize if I did. However, if that's not what you meant, why did you ask the question?

Because you need to find a solution that works for your dd.
If my dd wanted to swim in GS, I would be a parent to figure out a solution and not have my dd opt out.
There are always solutions.

Also the Middle School thing is a valid issue. My dd is experiencing it today.

I like the T-Shirt idea.

 

[VirtuallyMe]

Hello... Long-time Boy Scout leader here! I don't know much about the GSA program and I like reading these types of threads to learn more about how the BSA and GSA programs are similar and different. I used to teach leader training at the Boy Scout level and know a great deal about BSA policies. Here are a couple of observations that I have:
- I'd be surprised if the GSA policies didn't allow group youth changing areas and not require that scouts be afforded a private changing area if desired. This would be consistent with the way that it works in the BSA.
- If GSA policy allows non-related adults to change with youth, that would be a BIG difference with the way that the BSA works. In the BSA, adults and non-related youth must sleep, change, shower, and use the restrooms apart from youth. Adults are only permitted into such facilities that youth are using for such purposes only as much as the minimum requirements are needed for safety and health reasons.

- From what's been posted here, "Safety-Wise" appears to be the GSA equal to the BSA's "Guide To Safe Scouting". I tried to find a copy of SW on-line, but it appears that the GSA wants you to buy a copy. The BSA hands out copies of GTSS like they're Halloween candy and also posts it on-line in case anyone is interested. They figure that the more leaders and parents have access to the BSA safety policies, the better.

First off... just a minor pet peeve of mine- but it is GSUSA- not GSA- like I said just minor-

The current safety wise is NOT online- but the one that is due to come out in late fall early spring is rumored to be all online (I'm excited about that)- As leaders we got copies with our initial leader training- and when those were last revised were given new copies too- So I've never had to pay for a Safety wise.

Over all- I would think that the policy on adults changing with girls- would be not too... we also have a policy that two unrelated adults must be with girls at all times- so no single adult with a room full of girls. or anything like that...

My take- if I knew a girl was worried about it I would let her go changed in the stalls- and not worry about it- lots of the girls have no issue with it- and are fine changing in presence of others and will just change in main area.

As a leader who has done many many camping trips- I tend to change in bathrooms, my sleeping bag, or I'm up way before the girls anyway if changing in my changing room.

At our summer camps girls have never been restricted from using a more secluded place to change- I can understand them discouraging the "in the stall changing" for all because if there are only 1-2 stalls then it can take a long time for a unit to change- and they'd lose out on swim time or whatever the next activity is

 

[Geoff_M]

First off... just a minor pet peeve of mine- but it is GSUSA- not GSA- like I said just minor-

Sorry about that... I've just always heard the program referred to by that name in general, and not just in "BSA" circles.

The current safety wise is NOT online- but the one that is due to come out in late fall early spring is rumored to be all online (I'm excited about that)- As leaders we got copies with our initial leader training- and when those were last revised were given new copies too- So I've never had to pay for a Safety wise.

I was sure that leaders had copies at their disposal. My only question was if the local trainers were given permission to freely make copies locally or if they were required to purchase them as training materials from the national organization.

 

[Mr. & Mrs. Smith]

Because you need to find a solution that works for your dd.
If my dd wanted to swim in GS, I would be a parent to figure out a solution and not have my dd opt out.
There are always solutions.

Absolutely. There is a simple solution. Let children who are uncomfortable changing in public have some privacy. There should be adequate time alotted for this.

 

[LisaNJ25]

That's good to know. You can buy bound copies of the GTSS too. I was just surprised that Googling the "Safety-Wise" title didn't turn up any on-line copies at either the GSA site or any local council sites (though I only went a couple of pages into the search results). Before the BSA put their version on-line, local councils used to scan hard-copies and put PDFs on their sites. I clicked on their reference to the resource on the GSA site and it took me to their e-commerce page and wanted me to buy a copy.

If any GSA leaders know of an on-line PDF of their guide, I'd love to have a look at it!

I have PDF file of the October 2008 updates but not the full book.

 

[sha_lyn]

Absolutely. There is a simple solution. Let children who are uncomfortable changing in public have some privacy. There should be adequate time alotted for this.

I disagree. It would greatly cut into the length of each activity. Realistically at our day camp we would probably have to remove 1 activity from the schedule to do so.

IMHO if someone is unable to change in a room with others their own age and sex, maybe they just aren't cut out for camp, sports etc. I believe the suggestions of the large Tshirt or having someone hold a towel are reasonable allowances for those with issues. The majority of the girls shouldn't be "punished" because a few are unwilling to go with the flow.


Earlier someone said holding a towel would take just as long as allowing them to use a stall. I disagree. Let say there are 20 girls and 5 stalls. Only 5 could change at a time. However even if all 20 girls wanted some privacy, 10 could change at a time.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

Absolutely. There is a simple solution. Let children who are uncomfortable changing in public have some privacy. There should be adequate time alotted for this.

As a former GS leader, this is impossible. As in middle school, this will be impossible.

T-Shirt idea, now that is a realistic solution.

 

[mickeyboat]

IMHO if someone is unable to change in a room with others their own age and sex, maybe they just aren't cut out for camp, sports etc. I believe the suggestions of the large Tshirt or having someone hold a towel are reasonable allowances for those with issues. The majority of the girls shouldn't be "punished" because a few are unwilling to go with the flow.


Earlier someone said holding a towel would take just as long as allowing them to use a stall. I disagree. Let say there are 20 girls and 5 stalls. Only 5 could change at a time. However even if all 20 girls wanted some privacy, 10 could change at a time.

So you are saying that in order to participate in a group activity, one must be willing to give up their right to maintain the privacy of her own body? That is ridiculous!

The development of a sense of modesty is very common and normal at this age (7-8). Are we supposed to tell these kids that it is somehow wrong to expect privacy - something that most adults insist upon?

These girls are not at the edge of a lake. They are in a fitness facility - between changing stalls, bathroom stalls and shower stalls, there are plenty of places for privacy without unreasonably interrupting the flow of the schedule. Heck - have kids wear suits under their clothes, and pull half of the kids out of the pool 5 minutes early (those who want to change in private), and time is not an issue at all.

 

[Mr. & Mrs. Smith]

So you are saying that in order to participate in a group activity, one must be willing to give up their right to maintain the privacy of her own body? That is ridiculous!

Exactly! At one point, children were given no rights and were treated in ways that were convienent for adults but thankfully that's changing. If giving a little girl privacy does not fit into the adult's schedule, well then that's just too bad.

 

[sha_lyn]

So you are saying that in order to participate in a group activity, one must be willing to give up their right to maintain the privacy of her own body? That is ridiculous!

The development of a sense of modesty is very common and normal at this age (7-8). Are we supposed to tell these kids that it is somehow wrong to expect privacy - something that most adults insist upon?

These girls are not at the edge of a lake. They are in a fitness facility - between changing stalls, bathroom stalls and shower stalls, there are plenty of places for privacy without unreasonably interrupting the flow of the schedule. Heck - have kids wear suits under their clothes, and pull half of the kids out of the pool 5 minutes early (those who want to change in private), and time is not an issue at all.

In your situation they aren't on the edge of a lake, but at our camp they most certainly are. As is the case with most GS camps. Why isn't the Tshirt or towel suggestions accommodation enough? Who is going to pay for the extra adults to supervise the girls who want to get out of the pool and change 5 minutes early?

As for "most adults", well I can tell you that women at Golds Gym and the other gym I was a member of change in the locker room in front of each other. There aren't any changing stalls, only toilet stalls and showers. It would be very inconvenient for those with issues to take up the toilet stalls or showers to change when there are people who need to use them for their intended purpose. If someone has an issue with the facilities, they need to adapt or find somewhere else.

 

[aprilgail2]

So you are saying that in order to participate in a group activity, one must be willing to give up their right to maintain the privacy of her own body? That is ridiculous!

The development of a sense of modesty is very common and normal at this age (7-8). Are we supposed to tell these kids that it is somehow wrong to expect privacy - something that most adults insist upon?

.

My daughter was at a summer camp that was really nice the summer she was going into first grade but they had all the kids change in one big room adn she hated it so we had to find another camp that she was comfortable at. She does go to girl socut camp and right next to the lake they have changing rooms and if they don't change there they can use the bathrooms by the sports court or the rec center to change, they don't make them change in the open. She also went to marine biology camp and they had a trailer set up to change in and it was curtained off into little dressing rooms for each child.
As far as Jr. High goes we don't have a pool so they don't have to get totally naked in class and I remember going to the same school and we all changed in the shower stalls and the bathroom stalls in the locker room. No one ever took a shower in there so the stalls were always dry.

 

[janey99]

I have a DS, not a DD, so my take on this situation might be way off . . .

But when he was 6-7 and starting camp, we had a discussion after the first week:

DS - Daddy, we have to change our bathing suits in a big room with my bunk and other bunks together.

DH - That's how it is at camp, dude.

DS - Oh, OK.

We have not heard another word about it in 4 years.

OP, is there a reason why you can't just adopt an "it is what it is" attitude to minimize your DD's focus on this issue? At her age, this could be her first exposure to the reality that the road will not always rise to meet her.

Jane

 

[mickeyboat]

In your situation they aren't on the edge of a lake, but at our camp they most certainly are. As is the case with most GS camps. Why isn't the Tshirt or towel suggestions accommodation enough? Who is going to pay for the extra adults to supervise the girls who want to get out of the pool and change 5 minutes early?

As for "most adults", well I can tell you that women at Golds Gym and the other gym I was a member of change in the locker room in front of each other. There aren't any changing stalls, only toilet stalls and showers. It would be very inconvenient for those with issues to take up the toilet stalls or showers to change when there are people who need to use them for their intended purpose. If someone has an issue with the facilities, they need to adapt or find somewhere else.

I hope that the t-shirt accomodation will be enough for her, and I suspect that is where we will land on this issue.

But it disturbs me that a child's sense of modesty and desire for privacy is so callously disregarded. We're not talking about eating at the picnic table, here (as a previous poster pointed out). I really don't see my daughter as someone who has "issues," privacy is a basic human right.

As far as supervision is concerned I am certain something could be worked out, in concert with the buddy system, to make sure proper supervision is present without requiring additional staffing.

 

[mickeyboat]

OP, is there a reason why you can't just adopt an "it is what it is" attitude to minimize your DD's focus on this issue? At her age, this could be her first exposure to the reality that the road will not always rise to meet her.

Jane

We adopted this attitude last year. I only heard about it once last summer, and we came up with the towel solution. I thought it was resolved.

When we started talking about camp again this year, DD absolutely refused to entertain the idea of attending. It took months of talking to her to find out why she was so adamant about not going. I think her ideas about privacy have changed since last year.

In most instances I agree, the road will not always rise to meet her. But in most of those cases there is some lesson to be learned, and the lost "right" is an unimportant one. I can't see the lesson in requiring children to expose themselves to one another when they are uncomfortable doing so - especially when there are facilities available where they could change in private.

Don't get me wrong, I will strongly encourage the t-shirt option for the rest of the week. The only reason she is opting out today is because the camp director did not respond to my email in time to come up with a solution that DD and the camp could agree upon.

Denae

 

[dispor]

I disagree. It would greatly cut into the length of each activity. Realistically at our day camp we would probably have to remove 1 activity from the schedule to do so.

If there are THAT many girls who want to change in privacy that it would affect the schedule that much, then there is definitely a NEED to create more private changing areas.

Is a row of curtained-off areas really asking that much?

As for the middle school comments - at my children's school, they wear their gym clothes all day on gym day. And around here, most high schools offer summer gym, so there won't be any need for clothes-changing then, either.

 

[sha_lyn]

If there are THAT many girls who want to change in privacy that it would affect the schedule that much, then there is definitely a NEED to create more private changing areas.

Is a row of curtained-off areas really asking that much?

As for the middle school comments - at my children's school, they wear their gym clothes all day on gym day. And around here, most high schools offer summer gym, so there won't be any need for clothes-changing then, either.

Yes I believe it is asking too much.
I can only speak in generals or from the prospective of how it would affect out day camp.
It would cost too much for one. Take up too much room for another.
Specifically for our camp it would cause a couple of other problems. We rent out a private campground/outdoor club for the week of camp. We can't build permanent structures on the property. We would have to buy several tents to be able to offer individual changing rooms. That would run up the cost of the camp, not only because of the initial purchase, but the need to rent a larger storage facility that the camp items are stored in when not in use. It would also force us to take up the small amount of level cleared space that is our only area where the girls are allowed to run and is the only area large enough for games such as tug of war, kick ball etc. the camp is very hilly and has gravel roads and other fall hazards.
Also it would set a precedence that the camp need to give into the "demands" of a few.

 

[Ilovemylife]

I disagree. It would greatly cut into the length of each activity. Realistically at our day camp we would probably have to remove 1 activity from the schedule to do so.

IMHO if someone is unable to change in a room with others their own age and sex, maybe they just aren't cut out for camp, sports etc. I believe the suggestions of the large Tshirt or having someone hold a towel are reasonable allowances for those with issues. The majority of the girls shouldn't be "punished" because a few are unwilling to go with the flow.


Earlier someone said holding a towel would take just as long as allowing them to use a stall. I disagree. Let say there are 20 girls and 5 stalls. Only 5 could change at a time. However even if all 20 girls wanted some privacy, 10 could change at a time.

I am very thankful that my DD's leaders are much more understanding and sympathetic when it comes to modesty and privacy in young girls...as it should be.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

As for the middle school comments - at my children's school, they wear their gym clothes all day on gym day. And around here, most high schools offer summer gym, so there won't be any need for clothes-changing then, either.

In my dd's middle school you have to "dress out" as part of your grade. PE is every other day here for the most part.

My dd got a tardy for her first day. Her gym bag got stuck in the locker.

 

[sha_lyn]

I am very thankful that my DD's leaders are much more understanding and sympathetic when it comes to modesty and privacy in young girls...as it should be.

I'm not speaking of individual troop activities but specifically camp where there are many more girls participating in activities. As I said in another post, it would take up too much room and cost too much.