Gifted classes/school --- why the overwhelming demand?

[GinnyEmma]

So you all really don't think parents ever push for inappropriate placement for their own egos? You never see parents live vicariously through their children?

 

[dngnb8]

eh, I've seen too many kids pushed into courses that they were above them. I have also seen parents attempt to bribe the people making the decisions. And no, I didn't take the bribe.

Ive seen too many parents get jealous of other kids performance. Ive seen too many complain that money is spent on someone else.

Gifted and smart are two separate things. Kids need to be given an education that appropriate.

Not sure what you are saying here. Please define appropriate.

Parents are just as capable of enriching the lives of their child as the school is.

What makes you think we dont?

We somehow manage on our own dollar.

What makes you think our own dollar isnt involved?

Youre sure jumping to a lot of conclusions and based on these responses I detect some bitterness

 

[dngnb8]

We are having huge issues with students in the elite courses cheating and feeling it justified. FTR, we are seeing an increase in drug use in this population also. Sorry.

Ive also seen cheating from students in lessor courses and feeling entitled too.

Shall we talk about the current high drug use in the other pops?

It is amazing how broad a brush you use to rationalize your bitterness for others who fight to get their kids an "appropriate" education.

 

[dngnb8]

So you all really don't think parents ever push for inappropriate placement for their own egos? You never see parents live vicariously through their children?

Youve never seen parents bitter at other peoples kids for outperforming theirs?

 

[Poohforyou]

Those. Those, CMU, ND and the Military Academies.

Really, so 99% of HS seniors in your district go to college and the majority go to school of this caliber? You must be in an amazing district in an otherwise mediocre state. Florida ranks #34 nationally in HS graduation rate at 85.9%.

 

[Poohforyou]

And you wonder why are school's are failing.

Every kid should have the opportunity to take an advanced class WITHOUT the STUPID IQ TEST. That is my pet peeve.

If a kid wants to work hard and can pass the classes with A'/B's, the option to take a higher level class should be on the table for ALL kids.

I freaking HATE HATE HATE HATE the fact we do not allow kids to take higher level classes because of an IQ test when they belong in higher level classes.

And that is my rant...

My DD didn't take an IQ test to get into the program in our district. Placement is based on standardized test scores, teacher recommendation and grades. In the advanced classes students have to maintain an 85% average to continue into the next level class.

Oh, I've already said I don't consider my DD gifted. She's very bright and loves learning. However She qualifies for the G&T program our district offers and wants to be in it even though it's much more work. What parent wouldn't take advantage of something like this given the chance. I don't talk about it to other parents IRL because that just isn't my style. I certainly don't brag about my child's academic abilities, why would I?

 

[ccgirl]

We are having huge issues with students in the elite courses cheating and feeling it justified. FTR, we are seeing an increase in drug use in this population also. Sorry.

IDK, I remember cheating when I was in school and I was nowhere near elite. As far as feeling justified, what happens when they caught? Sounds like maybe the administration is not doing their job. In my DD's school you get caught cheating once, it's a warning, twice you are suspended and 3 strikes your out = expulsion! As far as drug use, I have seen an increase, period. Among the rich, poor, middle class, smart, not so smart, athlete, non athlete etc.

So you all really don't think parents ever push for inappropriate placement for their own egos? You never see parents live vicariously through their children?

I know I would never push for an inapproriate placement. That would be a disservice to my child and I'm not interested in that.

I have seen parents live vicariously through their children in all walks of life. Mostly, in the sports arena's, not usually academically.

I think you are painting with a very broad brush. There are always going to be parents with their own agenda's regardless of what "group" their child is in.

 

[SaraJayne]

There was a time I shared your opinion. I've learned there are kids who can do this, engage in extracurriculars, be social, engage in community service and thrive. Some kids have a fire in their belly and will take on the world given the chance.

I absolutely do agree that this isn't the path for all kids, even for some incredibly gifted and talented ones. Different strokes for different folks.

If the six hours of homework is true, then if those kids are in extracurriculars, have a social life and do community service, etc, then something has to give.

And that something is sleep. I'm not willing to let my children stay up until 2 or 3am to work on homework. That's ridiculous.

I don't care who you are, where you live, what classes your children are involved in ~ an average of six hours of homework every single night is insane.

 

[ccgirl]

If the six hours of homework is true, then if those kids are in extracurriculars, have a social life and do community service, etc, then something has to give.

And that something is sleep. I'm not willing to let my children stay up until 2 or 3am to work on homework. That's ridiculous.

I don't care who you are, where you live, what classes your children are involved in ~ an average of six hours of homework every single night is insane.

I think, and I may be wrong, that poster said the actual class time is only 1/2 day so that leaves a lot more homework time than the full day student. Sounds like it's more self-directed learning???

 

[cabanafrau]

I think, and I may be wrong, that poster said the actual class time is only 1/2 day so that leaves a lot more homework time than the full day student. Sounds like it's more self-directed learning???

Actually the day is split between 2 schools, so it is a full day of schooling.

The extracurriculars are not every night, the community service isn't every night, there isn't socialization every night -- excepting facebook & texting, which with teenagers goes without saying.

Like I said, I would never have believed six hours of homework a night would be a workable option for anybody. I've seen it working beautifully & I'm kind of impressed & in awe to be honest.

Stop & think about featured stories about Olympic and world class athletes in this age-range who put in unbelievable amounts of practice time, six to seven days a week, and go to school. Usually the stories mention they're doing well in school also & I hope that's genuinely the truth. Why applaud the hockey players, figure skaters, gymnasts, etc., for hitting the ice or the gym before school, after school, etc, yet scoff at kids spending their time on studies instead of the athletics, video games or whatever else they could occupy their time with?

I could understand if hitting the books so hard kept a kid from participating fully in the rest of life, but what's the harm if they're living a well-rounded lifestyle?

 

[The Mystery Machine]

My DD didn't take an IQ test to get into the program in our district. Placement is based on standardized test scores, teacher recommendation and grades. In the advanced classes students have to maintain an 85% average to continue into the next level class.

Oh, I've already said I don't consider my DD gifted. She's very bright and loves learning. However She qualifies for the G&T program our district offers and wants to be in it even though it's much more work. What parent wouldn't take advantage of something like this given the chance. I don't talk about it to other parents IRL because that just isn't my style. I certainly don't brag about my child's academic abilities, why would I?

That is the way it should be.

 

[cabanafrau]

ditto. It is encouraging poor behaivor, including lying and cheating. Good students are more concerned about the persception of others than learning. Parents are too, sadly.

I'd suggest this is more your "persception" than anything approaching reality. I cannot imagine what would lead someone to this conclusion at all.

 

[A_Princess'_Daddy]

Really, so 99% of HS seniors in your district go to college and the majority go to school of this caliber? You must be in an amazing district in an otherwise mediocre state. Florida ranks #34 nationally in HS graduation rate at 85.9%.

I noticed that, as well. As I said in an earlier post, I went to a selective prep school and 100% of my class went to a college or university. While these numbers are not exact, out of my graduating class of 120 I'd guess that 10% of us went to an Ivy, 30% went to "other great schools", e.g. Standford, Georgetown, Johns Hopkins, University of Chicago, Wellesley, MIT, 30% went to "very good schools", e.g. Michigan, Notre Dame, Tufts, Boston College, and 30% to regular schools.

A public school sending 99% of its graduates to the top of the top tier is unheard of, in my experience.

 

[cabanafrau]

So you all really don't think parents ever push for inappropriate placement for their own egos? You never see parents live vicariously through their children?

You want to talk about parents pushing their children to feed their own egos -- step into the wonderful world of dance.

Psst, I'm a dance mom & here's a little tip from me to you, better wear a helmet & full battle armor.

I'm getting the gist from your comments that you are involved in education. Between your broad generalizations & your bitterness about students achieving and their parents advocating for the best fit for their kids, maybe it's time to find your bliss in another career.

 

[Leajess99]

Maybe at your school.

Heck here you can't even get that percentage to stay in school let alone go to college.

Same here. Heck half the families cannot afford to send their kids to college unless they get scholarships and grants.

 

[Leajess99]

I haven't read all the responses but the "overwhelming NEED" for G/T classes are to satisfy the parents that all seem to have perfect children . The VAST majority of the kids in these classes are neither gifted nor talented--good students, yes, but a truly gifted child, no. Back in the day, these classes were simply called "advanced" classes and that is what most of these kids really need. I am glad our schools don't go overboard with the whole gifted thing. Yes, they have a program but it is VERY difficult to get into and the kids that are in the program are truly gifted. For the advanced students they have many opportunities for accelerated classes, etc., which is how it should be. Our schools are also very good at working with kids on an individual basis as needed. DD's boyfriend is a whiz at math. He started taking classes at the high school for math in 7th grade. He is now a freshman and next year will start taking college level classes offered at our school. As a junior he will attend a local college for more math classes. He is a good student in other classes but not quite this advanced. He got the second highest score in our state on the National Math test for seniors in high school. I tease DD when she has a math problem to ask him for help (she is a sophomore--I am mostly serious though).

Comments like the bolded just make people look bitter. My kids are in NO way perfect but my middle and youngest ones are in teh gifted program. NOT because i requested them to be but because their teachers, the gifted teachers, the guidance counselors, etc tested them and found they needed to be there. I was approached by the school about it.

My youngest has been in the GT talent pool since Kindergarten. My middle one has been in GT since 3rd or 4th grade because again the school felt she needed to be there. I am not going to deny my children these opportunities just as I have not denied my middle one the opportunities of DUKE TIP. My kids can go to college anywhere they want in the USA and it is paid for.

I just really find it funny how some people react because other children are in Gifted programs.

ETA: Both of my kids were placed by 2 different schools. My youngest was in it at her old school and the new school was not made aware of it by me. The only thing I ever made them aware of was her speech delay so they could watch in case she needed speech in the future.

 

[Leajess99]

Don't tell me how I feel or how most parents with kids in these programs feel. You are not me and you are not one of those parents. What audacity!

Again, it looks like they are bitter because their kids can't get into the programs.

My kids accomplishments do NOT lead to a status symbol for me. I don't know too many parents that run around or even post on facebook about how "gifted" their kids are. I know all sorts of parents who do share how proud they are of their children's grades and most of them may or may not have children in GT. I do know someone who was all bent out of shape about my youngest being placed in the program but I did not go out and request my child be placed in that program.

Hmm, I guess next I can deal with people being mad because my youngest also is one of only 2 girls in her school that accelled on the Marine Physical Fitness Test/Challenge or that she made it to the Team Championship level of the NFL's PPK, or any number of her physical accomplishments. These are all things that my youngest did on her own. Heck before she competed in the local level of PPK (done at school with a great teacher), she had only ever thrown a football with her brother and sister and neighbor child.

 

[FredinFL]

Just your basic average snowflakes over at my house. Can't say I'm sorry about it.

 

[Leajess99]

And you wonder why are school's are failing.

Every kid should have the opportunity to take an advanced class WITHOUT the STUPID IQ TEST. That is my pet peeve.
If a kid wants to work hard and can pass the classes with A'/B's, the option to take a higher level class should be on the table for ALL kids.

I freaking HATE HATE HATE HATE the fact we do not allow kids to take higher level classes because of an IQ test when they belong in higher level classes.

And that is my rant...

Our schools do NOT uswe an IQ test to place a kid in an advanced class. They use various tests to verify as they are trying to keep a child from becoming overwhelmed and frustrated. The elementary school actually changed programs and the way they did the advanced math classes because so many parents were pushing for their kids to be there and many of the kids would become frustrated. Why let the child accept a C in a class too hard for them when they can earn an A in a class on their level??

My middle daughter has been in advanced Math since 2nd grade and when she moved to middle school she was put back into a grade level Math class even though she had already completed it with an A previously. I did contact the school to ask about why she was placed in that class. The assistant principal did not know so she checked into it. They made my daughter take 3 different tests (none of which were an IQ test) to make sure before moving her. I was told she would be moved to the correct class but thankfully had the same Math teacher (I loved that Math teacher as my son had her as well). I was told she did not miss anything on the tests. This is a kid that has tested at 12.9 plus for Math for a couple of years now. I did not get mad at the school for testing her to make sure she could handle the work. I am thankful they do check. I have seen what happens to kids that get frustrated.

 

[Leajess99]

ditto. It is encouraging poor behaivor, including lying and cheating. Good students are more concerned about the persception of others than learning. Parents are too, sadly.

Wow, so only a child identified as gifted is encouraged to lie and cheat and have poor behavior?? Guess I better run and tell that to the parents I know whose children lie and cheat yet are not identified as gifted.