Gifted classes/school --- why the overwhelming demand?

[IUTBAM]

Everyone wants to feel like their child is more special than "regular" children.

Amen! My DD was in g/t in elementary school, and we moved to another state. She didn't QUALIFY for g/t at her new middle school.

Well, she ended up with a 1500 on the SAT, 32 on the ACT, National Merit Commended, and scholarships from every single college she applied to. So, she turned out alright without the G/T!

 

[Hoodie]

IDEA is a federal law. If a child is certified as gifted, which is technically a disability because the child's needs are not being met by the regular classroom setting, the school is required to provide services. It is the legal right of the parent to require that the students needs are met, but schools wouldn't necessarily have to have a special program to do this. Schools may have flexibility with their budget as far as providing a specific gifted and talented program, but if a child has an IEP, and the school is not holding to the plan in that IEP, the parents have legal options (and any parent who has a child with an IEP is given a packet with these legal rights explained--this is federal law as well).

Unfortunately, many gifted children do not get the services they need (and could ask for) because people tend to think, "Oh, they're smart, they'll be fine." Most special education dollars go to the students that most would think of when you think about special needs kids. And while money certainly should be spent for the needs of those children, gifted children can have challenges of their own and can suffer when their needs are not met.

Again, this is not the same as academically bright children who need to be challenged and may be participating is some special programs. These children have been tested and legally certified as gifted.

IDEA's coverage:

CHILD WITH A DISABILITY-
(A) IN GENERAL- The term 'child with a disability' means a child --
(i) with mental retardation, hearing impairments (including deafness), speech or language
impairments, visual impairments (including blindness), serious emotional disturbance
(hereinafter referred to as emotional disturbance'), orthopedic impairments, autism, traumatic
brain injury, other health impairments, or specific learning disabilities; and
(ii) who, by reason thereof, needs special education and related services.
(B) CHILD AGED 3 THROUGH 9- The term 'child with a disability' for a child aged 3 through 9
may, at the discretion of the State and the local educational agency, include a child --
(i) experiencing developmental delays, as defined by the State and as measured by appropriate
diagnostic instruments and procedures, in one or more of the following areas: physical
development, cognitive development, communication development, social or emotional
development, or adaptive development; and
(ii) who, by reason thereof, needs special education and related services.

No mention of gifted/talented. I checked the Mass. DOE website and they distinguish between SpEd programs, which are framed from IDEA and funded by the state, and Gifted and Talented programs which are tracked, but not necessarily funded by the state and not subject to statewide guidelines.

In fact, this is seems to claim that gifted/talented are NOT covered by IDEA

http://otec.uoregon.edu/tag.htm

 

[okeydokey]

Everyone wants to feel like their child is more special than "regular" children.

Wow, what an ignorant statement.

Gifted kids are considered special needs because they require a different approach than the traditional classroom to reach their potential. In my state you must have an IQ greater than 130 in order to qualify, but we don't have separate schools. They are no more or less "special" than any other children, they are just different.

 

[Leajess99]

Trust me, there is a whole industry that is prepping them to the test.

Just wondering if you are mad because you ro your kids don't qualify as gifted hence the snotty comments on it.

I do have 2 kids in the GT program (well the younger one is in the Talent pool until next year or 4th grade). My older one proves consistently that she belongs there while the younger one is in the Talent pool based on the recommendations of teachers and tests they take.

So please do tell what industry is prepping these kids to take these tests as I would really love to know.

 

[MickeyMomTo2]

IDEA's coverage:



No mention of gifted/talented. I checked the Mass. DOE website and they distinguish between SpEd programs, which are framed from IDEA and funded by the state, and Gifted and Talented programs which are tracked, but not necessarily funded by the state and not subject to statewide guidelines.

In fact, this is seems to claim that gifted/talented are NOT covered by IDEA

http://otec.uoregon.edu/tag.htm

My son is gifted and certified as disabled under IDEA gifted guidelines. I do believe that there can be a differentiation in IDEA between simply gifted and being gifted and disabled because of your giftedness. I can't look for supporting documents online right now, but I am given a large packet explaining my parental rights every year.

I don't believe that schools are required to have a gifted program in the same way that they would be required to have a special eduction program, but that does not mean they don't have to find a way to meet the student's needs if the child is disabled because of his gifted status.

Personally, I prefer for my son to be in the regular classroom, and I am glad that most of his support is given by his classroom teacher with minimal pullout by the gifted teacher (the gifted teacher and classroom teacher do work together to support him). Although he has been certified gifted since the beginning of kindergarten (at the teacher's request, not mine), I am not one who thinks that kids should have to race through curriculum or be doing advanced stuff all the time. They're kids and should have a solid education, but also time for fun and play. However, if I felt that his needs were being ignored, I would have the legal right to ask that they be met.

 

[okeydokey]

Trust me, there is a whole industry that is prepping them to the test.

That's ********. My son took the test with no prepping at all. Do you think we send our third graders to test preparers? How ridiculous.

 

[Leajess99]

Spend night after night comforting a kid b/c they don't fit in and are being bullied and tortured simply b/c they think differently than other kids their age, and G&T doesn't look so frivalous anymore.

This is so true. My one daughter gets called many names because she is different. It sucks and our GT program at the middle school is not the best. I would much prefer a GT school as it would do more good for these kids that truly are gifted.

 

[Katie's Butterflies]

Around here, there is a BIG difference (or at least there was) between regular classes and G&T classes. The kids in the G&T classes had good textbooks they could take home. They did experiemnts/hands on learning. They watched movies, used computers, went on field trips etc. The regular classes meanwhile are filled to the brim, do not have enough textbooks (and other supplies) to go around, do not have time to go on fieldtrips etc.

Very few parents would not want their child to be in the G&T classes!

 

[twinglesmome]

IDEA is a federal law. If a child is certified as gifted, which is technically a disability because the child's needs are not being met by the regular classroom setting, the school is required to provide services. It is the legal right of the parent to require that the students needs are met, but schools wouldn't necessarily have to have a special program to do this. Schools may have flexibility with their budget as far as providing a specific gifted and talented program, but if a child has an IEP, and the school is not holding to the plan in that IEP, the parents have legal options (and any parent who has a child with an IEP is given a packet with these legal rights explained--this is federal law as well).

Unfortunately, many gifted children do not get the services they need (and could ask for) because people tend to think, "Oh, they're smart, they'll be fine." Most special education dollars go to the students that most would think of when you think about special needs kids. And while money certainly should be spent for the needs of those children, gifted children can have challenges of their own and can suffer when their needs are not met.

Again, this is not the same as academically bright children who need to be challenged and may be participating is some special programs. These children have been tested and legally certified as gifted.

In many school districts, students are no longer formally identified as gifted and talented. Some districts did away with the usual screeening because of budgetary concerns. If these kids are not "certified" or "formally identified", then they also might not receive services that may meet their needs. That leaves more money in the budget for the NCLB kids and makes the achievement gap appear to close.

I agree with your statement that many people do think that because these kids are smart, they'll do just fine. This is simply not the full truth. Some of these kids never learn how to study, go to pieces if/when they finally come across something that doesn't come easily to them, they get bored in school (and yes, some at risk may consider dropping out), etc.

I also agree that some of these kids don't fit in sometimes with the general school population. They truly think and process information differently. They are often very intense and prone to depression.

 

[mamacatnv]

I absolutely agree with this! unfortunately in my district, those are the funds that seem to be cut first. The lower kids are well funded and helped along, as they should be, but the advanced kids are neglected and that isn't right. Its very disheartening.

Same here and it ticks me off.

I'm not sure that's true everywhere. It wasn't true when I was in school, but that was a million years ago so it may have changed. In fact, the G&T program was lost to budget cuts as the school system was legally required to provide services and extra staff for SpEd students, but not the G&T program. G&T kids were not put in the same category as Special Needs students in our district.

Again, this was 20 years ago, so things may have changed (although from the posts by others in Mass. I'm guessing it hasn't)

GT programs in general are often the victims of the budget axe.

When I was in school - early 70's thru mid 80's in California the state had what was called the MGM Program. MGM stood for Mentally Gifted Minors. I was in that program from first grade to high school. I have no idea how I ended up there, I really don't. I don't remember testing or anything else but even when we moved 30 miles away when I was in 2nd grade I was right back in that program.
The MGM program was not "academic" we didn't write papers or read advanced novels or learn advanced math, we were exposed to many more things than the other students. We met 2 days a week in the school library during normal school hours. In elementary school I remember learning the Metric System, going to see plays at the local childrens theater, multiple field trips to science labs etc. We made movies, developed ad campaigns, met with people from all over the world via the University system etc. It was an amazing program and I got a lot out of it, some of my fondest school memories revolve around the MGM program.

I also went to school during the years where kids were grouped by their abilities and I am a huge fan of putting kids with their academic peers. Let the brite ones excel to the best of their capabilities, let the average be average and help them to get there, let the low learn a skill. We can't treat them all the same, they are not all the same. We also need more places for the PROFOUNDLY gifted kids. The Little Man Tates of the world, not the bright or even the average GT kid, I'm talking the 16 year old who attends the Davidson Academy http://www.davidsonacademy.unr.edu/and studies nuclear physics type gifted. Those are the kids that really suffer socially.
I don't care if its not politically correct, the current system is not working, we are dumbing down our kids and no one is winning.

My DS and DD both "tested" into Nevada's GT program. DS went once. They bussed the kids to a common location for an afterschool program that was geared around writing. DS decided that was not for him. DD, we didn't even bother, we pulled her out of the local crappy elementary school and put her into a High Achieving Charter School - she is leaps and bounds ahead of the neighbor kids and more importantly she is thriving, loves school and is being challenged.

To answer the question in my own way -
Often GT kids do not do well in a normal classroom and have high drop out rates due to boredom. I have never heard of a GT program that was in place purely because of the at risk factor.

 

[stepmommyof1]

There is so much talk on this board about having gifted children.
I don't really get it...I'm just happy if my stepson does his best and doesn't get bad grades. More important than that is if he's a good kid- kind, responsible, generous etc.
Although I'll admit this...even though I'm not too into if he can be gifted, I am into being popular. It's important to me that he has the right clothes and is good looking and all that, because I care more about popularity than about getting the best grades. (People here have told me that's because I'm still young and when I'm older I'll feel differently.)
Maybe I'll understand all this gifted stuff someday if I have a baby of my own. Maybe I'll feel differently then, who knows. Maybe I'll want my baby to be gifted too!

 

[cabanafrau]

My daughter goes to an enrichment school (this would be academic school on Saturdays) and the school is all about prepping kids for the G&T tests. So I see a lot of parents going for G&T schools and am wondering how all these kids are gifted. And I am questioning myself thinking my daughter is the odd man out.

But there are some good perspectives in this thread about quality of education in the regular academic programs.

What on earth does this mean??? Do you think your daughter isn't up to the level of the other kids academically? Or do you find yourself superior because your motives are somehow more pure than the others because you don't consider her gifted & talented and she isn't enrolled there to be prepped for testing?

If you think gifted & talented kids truly are so because they pass some tests, you're delusional. Kids who truly are blessed w/ the intelligence to deserve the label don't clamor after the knowledge to pass some tests, they want to see what they can do with that knowledge.

 

[stepmommyof1]

Mamacatnv.
That mentally gifted minors program sounds like something that should have been open to every child regardless of mental ability.
I can understand having more difficult curriculum for gifted children, but the program you're describing, mentally gifted minors, sounds like it was something that just exposed you to lots of different educational and cultural things, which could have been a huge benefit to a learning disabled child. That program sounds like it actually would have really been great for students with minor learning disabilities. It's a shame it was only available for kids with good test scores.
I guess I just feel for the wonderful programs not available to kids who are smart, bright kids but who have learning disabilities and therefore are not usually in gifted programs.
Of course there needs to be special curriculum for advanced and gifted children.
But if it's a program to expose kids to great cultural hints and give them new experiences- well, every child needs that. Sometimes the kids who don't learn as well benefit from those programs the most.

 

[Debbie7452]

I know one good reason parents want their kids in the GT classes. I think it is so their kids are in a class full of students that want to learn. I have had kids in regular classes also and there was a higher percentage of disruptive influences. This is only my experience...not a generalization of all people everywhere.

 

[stepmommyof1]

Sometimes when I come on the disboards I think if I hear he word "gifted" one more time I'll be sick. It seems everyone has a gifted child who has tested into some special program and those who don't are anxious to prove that their child is gifted too.
There's nothing wrong with gifted children but lately it bugs because I've heard he word "gifted" Sooooo much here.

 

[okeydokey]

Sometimes when I come on the disboards I think if I hear he word "gifted" one more time I'll be sick. It seems everyone has a gifted child who has tested into some special program and those who don't are anxious to prove that their child is gifted too.
There's nothing wrong with gifted children but lately it bugs because I've heard he word "gifted" Sooooo much here.

I'm so sorry that my child makes you sick. He can't help the way he was born. He is a kind and sweet soul who just thinks and processes things differently than some other kids. It's nice that he has some peers in school that are like him in that way so he doesn't feel so different or isolated.

 

[okeydokey]

There is so much talk on this board about having gifted children.
I don't really get it...I'm just happy if my stepson does his best and doesn't get bad grades. More important than that is if he's a good kid- kind, responsible, generous etc.
Although I'll admit this...even though I'm not too into if he can be gifted, I am into being popular. It's important to me that he has the right clothes and is good looking and all that, because I care more about popularity than about getting the best grades. (People here have told me that's because I'm still young and when I'm older I'll feel differently.)
Maybe I'll understand all this gifted stuff someday if I have a baby of my own. Maybe I'll feel differently then, who knows. Maybe I'll want my baby to be gifted too!

Yes, maybe one day you will not be so shallow. Here's hoping. And I think we all want our kids to be good, kind children.

 

[stepmommyof1]

I was popular in high school and I think you have a lot more fun in high school if youre popular, which is why I think it's important. High school years are tough on every kid but if you're unpopular, it would just make it so much harder. Wanting popularity for my kid and being glad that he's popular isn't about being vain or shallow, it's about wanting him to have the best high school experience he can and be in all the social stuff. I'm not saying that is more important than grades, but I do think he social part of high school is very important.
And FYI i didn't say your child makes me sick. I said i get sick of hearing the word "gifted" used so much. That word is thrown around so much that i don't think it really means all that much anymore.

 

[Leajess99]

I'm so sorry that my child makes you sick. He can't help the way he was born. He is a kind and sweet soul who just thinks and processes things differently than some other kids. It's nice that he has some peers in school that are like him in that way so he doesn't feel so different or isolated.

Your son sounds like my daughter. I just wish they had separate GT classes and such here in the middle school.

I have a friend who was bored with school who is a genius. In school he would be given tests and if he did not want to be bothered with them he would make designs out of the answers (think bubble sheets basically). He would intentionally mark every answer wrong as well. He would also figure out exactly how many points he needed to pass the test and would do just that number and be done. The school would get so mad at him. As an adult he is one that fully understands where my daughter is coming from when so many others don't.

 

[Leajess99]

I was popular in high school and I think you have a lot more fun in high school if youre popular, which is why I think it's important. High school years are tough on every kid but if you're unpopular, it would just make it so much harder. Wanting popularity for my kid and being glad that he's popular isn't about being vain or shallow, it's about wanting him to have the best high school experience he can and be in all the social stuff. I'm not saying that is more important than grades, but I do think he social part of high school is very important.
And FYI i didn't say your child makes me sick. I said i get sick of hearing the word "gifted" used so much. That word is thrown around so much that i don't think it really means all that much anymore.

I kind of find it funny how the ones who were so popular in high school when I went to school really do not have much in life and regret worrying about being popular and wish they had done more in school.