George Zimmerman Trial ......

[usnuzuloose]

Honestly I don't think they hsve a choice.

You know this one is about the toughest case that I am really baffled with. Does anyone know how many are on the witness list for the defense?

I might as well ask, does anyone need tweeting? I will continue. if you do.

 

[Robbi]

Boxers wears gloves. Besides wouldn't the injury be the broken hand? Martin had nothing but the scratch and Zimmerman had nothing but the cuts to the back of the head and his nose injury.

With the way poster are saying GZ was being beaten by TM, there would have been other injuries to GZ. Its just common sense. What do you think a guy who was on the ground getting beaten MMA style will look like the next day? Is it how GZ looks in that police walkthrough?

Now maybe that doesn't prove he's guilty. It doesn't on its own. I just have a hard time believing anyone can look at a picture of GZ's actual injuries and think he was on the receiving end on the beating people are describing.

The orthopedist was talking about bare fist boxers.

People can have serious head trauma and barely have a bruise. Just as an example, remember when Natasha Richardson fell and hit her head. The responding doctor saw no trauma and she conversed for a while. She died a few hours later.

Yes, there's instruction in alternative school, but there are also huge negative consequences for kids. At least where I live alternative school goes on the transcript, creating implications for college admissions. Alternative schools also generally don't offer the same range of courses, so kids lose their electives, often lose a year's progress in their foreign language, etc . . . Finally, kids at alternative schools are at high risk for drop out.

For a kid who is clearly floundering and falling apart in their home school, or whose behavior is so unsafe that they can't be kept in their home school, then yes I can see trying alternative school as an option. But for a single incident of school skipping, or for writing 3 letters on the wall with a marker, I think it's overboard. I agree with you that suspension is a bad idea, especially for offenses that aren't violent and don't involve illegal substances, but there are other options that keep kids in school and have them fix their mistake. Alternative school carries too many risks for it to be a first round consequences, in my opinion.

What about drugs and a pipe? That was the cause of TM's last suspension.
This was his 3rd suspension. It was not his first round.

Once the dispatcher told GZ to stop, and he pursued TM anyway, I lost sympathy for him. The whole thing could have been avoided. Its amazing what happens when you follow instructions.

He never told him to stop, he said, "We don't need you to do that." The 911 dispatcher, Sean Noffke, said they avoid giving callers direct orders because it could make them liable.

Honestly I don't think they hsve a choice.

If the trial keeps going as it has, then I don't think it's necessary for GZ to take the stand.

 

[chobie]

You know this one is about the toughest case that I am really baffled with. Does anyone know how many are on the witness list for the defense?

I might as well ask, does anyone need tweeting? I will continue. if you do.

Yes, keep tweeting, please.

 

[usnuzuloose]

Yes, keep tweeting, please.

No problem!

 

[chobie]

The orthopedist was talking about bare fist boxers.

People can have serious head trauma and barely have a bruise. Just as an example, remember when Natasha Richardson fell and hit her head. The responding doctor saw no trauma and she conversed for a while. She died a few hours later.

What about drugs and a pipe? That was the cause of TM's last suspension.
This was his 3rd suspension. It was not his first round.

He never told him to stop, he said, "We don't need you to do that." The 911 dispatcher, Sean Noffke, said they avoid giving callers direct orders because it could make them liable.

If the trial keeps going as it has, then I don't think it's necessary for GZ to take the stand.

Yes, but we know GZ didn't have any serious injuries. Possible broken nose and 2 tiny cuts. And obviously GZ didn't know about Natasha Richardson or he would have had the police take him to the hospital that night. Though its true we don't know what he was thinking while TM was on top of him, we do know that immediately after the shooting he didn't think he had any serious injuries.

He told the neighbor he was in a fight and it was self-defense but he didn't say, "I was being seriously injured I need to see a doctor."

If I thought I was receiving life-threatening injuries, I would get it checked out.

So, does being involved in a fight, especially one where there is evidence to support he started it, when the only injuries were minor, justify the use of deadly force? Is that enough for the jury to think he was justified?

Remember the jury doesn't know about TM's screwdriver and pot residue past.

They know an unarmed teenager is dead, snd there was some type of scuffle.

 

[JennaDeeDooDah]

There is no reason for GZ to take the stand. He entered a plea of not guilty due to self defense. Self defense is already out there. The witness Friday did an excellent job of painting a picture of George Zimmerman being down on the ground crying for help while Trayvon Martin bashed his head into the ground. Defense hasn't called a single witness yet and it is already looking poorly for prosecution. No reason for GZ to take the stand. He doesn't have to take the stand to claim self defense. He already did that in his plea.

 

[Robbi]

That's not going to fly here. Zimmerman shot Martin and cannot dispute it. The burden shifts to Zimmerman to bring forth evidence of self defense. Based on the testimony of the witnesess so far, the defense has nothing to establish that Zimmerman was in fear of his life, only that Martin and Zimmerman were involved in a physical altercation.

The state must disprove self-defense by proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

There is no reason for GZ to take the stand. He entered a plea of not guilty due to self defense. Self defense is already out there. The witness Friday did an excellent job of painting a picture of George Zimmerman being down on the ground crying for help while Trayvon Martin bashed his head into the ground. Defense hasn't called a single witness yet and it is already looking poorly for prosecution. No reason for GZ to take the stand. He doesn't have to take the stand to claim self defense. He already did that in his plea.

 

[chobie]

There is no reason for GZ to take the stand. He entered a plea of not guilty due to self defense. Self defense is already out there. The witness Friday did an excellent job of painting a picture of George Zimmerman being down on the ground crying for help while Trayvon Martin bashed his head into the ground. Defense hasn't called a single witness yet and it is already looking poorly for prosecution. No reason for GZ to take the stand. He doesn't have to take the stand to claim self defense. He already did that in his plea.

There is no such thing as a plea of not guilty due to self-defense. It's only a plea of not guilty. Because his excited utterance that it was self-defense that he made to the neighbor was admitted, and there was evidence of a fight, that's enough for the "justifiable use of deadly force" jury instruction to be given to the jury.

But without GZ's getting on the stand to say he felt he was in imminent fear of death or serious bodily injury, it's not a slam dunk based on what's been admitted into evidence so far, IMO. Especially for a manslaughter charge.

It's certainly enough evidence to get past a judgment of acquittal.

 

[Robbi]

You know this one is about the toughest case that I am really baffled with. Does anyone know how many are on the witness list for the defense?

I might as well ask, does anyone need tweeting? I will continue. if you do.

130+ witnesses is what I've read.

Yes, but we know GZ didn't have any serious injuries. Possible broken nose and 2 tiny cuts. And obviously GZ didn't know about Natasha Richardson or he would have had the police take him to the hospital that night. Though its true we don't know what he was thinking while TM was on top of him, we do know that immediately after the shooting he didn't think he had any serious injuries.

He told the neighbor he was in a fight and it was self-defense but he didn't say, "I was being seriously injured I need to see a doctor."

If I thought I was receiving life-threatening injuries, I would get it checked out.

So, does being involved in a fight, especially one where there is evidence to support he started it, when the only injuries were minor, justify the use of deadly force? Is that enough for the jury to think he was justified?

Remember the jury doesn't know about TM's screwdriver and pot residue past.

They know an unarmed teenager is dead, snd there was some type of scuffle.

One of the witnesses on Friday said Zimmerman told him that TM told him he was going to die and that TM was reaching for the gun in his waistband.

Whether or not there were injuries, if someone told me I was going to die, I would be in fear for my life especially if they were reaching for a gun.

 

[chobie]

One of the witnesses on Friday said Zimmerman told him that TM told him he was gong to die and that TM was reaching for the gun in his waistband.

Whether or not there were injuries, if someone told me I was going to die, I would be in fear for my life especially if they were reaching for a gun.

Thanks, I didn't know that. I still think the jury is going to want to hear his side. They always do. It's a gamble either way for the defense.

I don't think they want to put him on because the state might be able to trip him up with all his inconsistent statements and he may open the door to his past.

 

[asta]

Yes, but we know GZ didn't have any serious injuries. Possible broken nose and 2 tiny cuts. And obviously GZ didn't know about Natasha Richardson or he would have had the police take him to the hospital that night. Though its true we don't know what he was thinking while TM was on top of him, we do know that immediately after the shooting he didn't think he had any serious injuries.

He told the neighbor he was in a fight and it was self-defense but he didn't say, "I was being seriously injured I need to see a doctor."

If I thought I was receiving life-threatening injuries, I would get it checked out.

So, does being involved in a fight, especially one where there is evidence to support he started it, when the only injuries were minor, justify the use of deadly force? Is that enough for the jury to think he was justified?

Remember the jury doesn't know about TM's screwdriver and pot residue past.

They know an unarmed teenager is dead, snd there was some type of scuffle.

Have you ever had a broken nose? Only someone with an agenda to spin this Trayvon Martin's way would describe Mr. Zimmerman's injuries this way. These injuries and the prosecutions witnesses have given us plenty of evidence that Trayvon Martin was the agressor and he was inflicting serious damage.

I don't understand how anyone could defend an attack on person performing a service to a community. Neighborhood watches are formed with the backing of the police and can be a critical link in a neighborhood experiencing break-ins.

Another thing that is totally inexcusable is that the dad or the girlfriend did not explain the problems in the neighborhood to Trayvon Martin and that people would be watching for unfamiliar behavior. That is what the neighborhood watch is supposed to be doing. How different would this whole thing be if Trayvon had known this and approached Mr. Zimmerman with respect instead of aggression and a bad attitude? This was all documented in the testimony of his friend. Or maybe he did know and just did not care.

 

[chobie]

130+ witnesses is what I've read.

Have you seen the list? Because its standard for the defense witness list to read: all the State's witnesses and in addition ( then they list defense only witnesses$,

 

[Robbi]

Thanks, I didn't know that. I still think the jury is going to want to hear his side. They always do. It's a gamble either way for the defense.

I don't think they want to put him on because the state might be able to trip him up with all his inconsistent statements and he may open the door to his past.

You're welcome.

Yes, I agree that putting GZ on the stand would damage his case.

Have you seen the list? Because its standard for the defense witness list to read: all the State's witnesses and in addition ( then they list defense only witnesses$,

Just found the list:
http://www.cfnews13.com/content/dam...013/04/zimmerman_2nd_amended_witness_list.pdf

 

[chobie]

Have you ever had a broken nose? Only someone with an agenda to spin this Trayvon Martin's way would describe Mr. Zimmerman's injuries this way. These injuries and the prosecutions witnesses have given us plenty of evidence that Trayvon Martin was the agressor and he was inflicting serious damage.

I don't understand how anyone could defend an attack on person performing a service to a community. Neighborhood watches are formed with the backing of the police and can be a critical link in a neighborhood experiencing break-ins.

Another thing that is totally inexcusable is that the dad or the girlfriend did not explain the problems in the neighborhood to Trayvon Martin and that people would be watching for unfamiliar behavior. That is what the neighborhood watch is supposed to be doing. How different would this whole thing be if Trayvon had known this and approached Mr. Zimmerman with respect instead of aggression and a bad attitude? This was all documented in the testimony of his friend. Or maybe he did know and just did not care.

Possible broken nose. Yes, compared to a bullet to the heart, minor. No one ever died from a bloody nose,

And what bad attitude? Asking why he was following him?

TM was supposed to bow down to him?

And since the neighborhood watch was supposed to watch and report, why would TM's family take this to mean people with concealed loaded guns would be patrolling the neighbor demanding ID, best be ready to say "yes sir, no sir" when someone comes after you?

 

[chobie]

You're welcome.

Yes, I agree that putting GZ on the stand would damage his case.

Just found the list:
http://www.cfnews13.com/content/dam/news/static/cfnews13/documents/2013/04/zimmerman_2nd_amended_witness_list.pdf

Thanks. Yes they listed all the state's witnesses. Plus some ASA's and Crump.

Don't see anyone from Miami who could present evidence of TM's reputation for violence on his community, though.

 

[JennaDeeDooDah]

130+ witnesses is what I've read.




One of the witnesses on Friday said Zimmerman told him that TM told him he was going to die and that TM was reaching for the gun in his waistband.

Whether or not there were injuries, if someone told me I was going to die, I would be in fear for my life especially if they were reaching for a gun.

And there was also this testimony on Friday:

O'MARA: And medically speaking, would you agree that whatever he did just stopped the attack allowed him to survive it?

FOLGATE: It could have potentially, yes. Depends on the amount of trauma he was sustaining at the time.

O'MARA: So stopping the attack is what allowed him to survive it. Would you agree?

FOLGATE: It could have, yes.

O'MARA: OK, thank you. Nothing further.

 

[3 MEN AND A BOAT]

Yes, but we know GZ didn't have any serious injuries. Possible broken nose and 2 tiny cuts. And obviously GZ didn't know about Natasha Richardson or he would have had the police take him to the hospital that night. Though its true we don't know what he was thinking while TM was on top of him, we do know that immediately after the shooting he didn't think he had any serious injuries.

He told the neighbor he was in a fight and it was self-defense but he didn't say, "I was being seriously injured I need to see a doctor."

If I thought I was receiving life-threatening injuries, I would get it checked out.

So, does being involved in a fight, especially one where there is evidence to support he started it, when the only injuries were minor, justify the use of deadly force? Is that enough for the jury to think he was justified?

Remember the jury doesn't know about TM's screwdriver and pot residue past.

They know an unarmed teenager is dead, snd there was some type of scuffle.

I guess I've missed the evidence that GZ started the fight? To me this could prove important.

Also to your question as to his non-lethal injuries being enough to justify his using lethal force to stop the fight. I have always heard and assumed that a person should not allow themselves to be beaten unconscious or to the point where you sustain injuries that even after the fight stops you could still die. It's even more important to take action to defend yourself from serious injuries especially if you CC because if you are knocked unconscious you have lost control of your CCW and the attacker could at this point take your weapon and hurt you or someone else.

 

[Robbi]

Thanks. Yes they listed all the state's witnesses. Plus some ASA's and Crump.

Don't see anyone from Miami who could present evidence of TM's reputation for violence on his community, though.

Maybe they're not going to go after TM and will just concentrate on GZ feeling that he was imminent danger of being killed.

And there was also this testimony on Friday:

Thank-you.

 

[pryncess527]

I don't understand how anyone could defend an attack on person performing a service to a community. Neighborhood watches are formed with the backing of the police and can be a critical link in a neighborhood experiencing break-ins.

.

But Zimmerman did not have the backing of police. He was specifically told by 911 that he do NOT need to follow Martin and that he should stop. yet he continued to act like a person with authority he does not possess.

 

[asta]

Possible broken nose. Yes, compared to a bullet to the heart, minor. No one ever died from a bloody nose,

And what bad attitude? Asking why he was following him?

TM was supposed to bow down to him?

And since the neighborhood watch was supposed to watch and report, why would TM's family take this to mean people with concealed loaded guns would be patrolling the neighbor demanding ID, best be ready to say "yes sir, no sir" when someone comes after you?

Well I have definitely had a broken nose and it definitely was not minor. I can't imagine the fear of what else this young man would do? The witness said he was continuing to pound Mr. Zimmerman.

The bad attitude is more than evident in his friend's testimony. Trayvon Martin used words that I am not able to repeat. The same words that a good part of our country are just now calling for the destruction of Paula Deen for using. If those words are horrible in one case they are horrible in all cases. Yes, there was plenty of evidence of a bad attitude submitted into evidence by the prosecution.

You don't have to bow down but there is no shame in using 'yes sir' and 'no sir' . This should be the norm in how you address someone who is older. That is how polite children are taught.

And once again, if Trayvon Martin had been told there were problems in the neighborhood and that a watch patrol was operating, then his first response might not have been racial slurs, a hostile response and running/hiding.

I was taught to respect authority and an older man acting as a safety function is the authority in this case.