Genie+ - Why is it so limited

[Melora]

I watched a documentary on "The History of Fastpasses" available on Youtube and I HIGHLY recommend it (if you can devote an hour and a half)
because it really explains the whole system and how its going to be very hard for Disney to change it now that they invested so much money in it.
I learned a lot.
And for the record, I HATED the system when we were there a few weeks back.

 

[DisneyFive]

The reason it is so limited is because Disney isn't charging enough for Genie+. If they raised the price, fewer people would buy it and more slots would be available to Genie+ customers.

This is also true of the Lighting Lane rides that are selling out instantaneously. If Disney charged enough, they wouldn't sell out.

There are other factors other than pure economics. Disney knows if it charges $40 for Genie+ there will be a ton of outrage -- that outrage could result in lower attendance.

For now, Disney seems to be settling for a mediocre Genie+ experience at a lower price. I'm sure Disney has spent a lot of time crunching numbers to maximize its profits, but that also comes with weaker Genie+ customer experience.

Let's work through the logic of charging substantially more...

The fewer and fewer people that purchase G+, due to the higher cost, the more we get back to being standby only, which is completely unsustainable as crowds levels are increasing and park capacities are lifted. This will lead to many more frustrated guests than they have currently. (and a few happy ones that ponied up for the G+) Last summer, when attendance was still being limited, standby lines spilled out all over the park and we had the longest waits, by far, of any trip we have ever taken. Also, it was the earliest we ever had to arrive at parks, just to get ONE headliner with a short(ish) wait. After that one ride, the crowds had already flooded the parks and other headliner waits had spiked. It was such a negative night and day difference versus our previous 10 years of almost annual 8-10 night trips.

The problem right now, in my opinion, is that Disney isn't opening up enough spots for G+ LL's at each attraction. By all reports, guests with G+ are flying right through the Lightning Lanes, versus maybe a 5-10 minute wait that we used to have historically with FP+. G+ spots for many rides are running out by 1-2 pm, leaving folks out cold for any good G+'s after that. To solve this issue I think Disney should open the G+ capacity for all those attractions that are running out so early, to the point were there is still some wait, say averaging 10 minutes max. That would allow far more folks to make good use of the system like we were able to back with FP+. I think Disney is still in the learning phase with G+, at least I'm praying so, because if they continue to limit the LL capacity so drastically like they are now, this G+ may backfire on them due to the lack of value once guests try to use it.

Just my thoughts on it at this point. We'll see what they do.

Dan

 

[Grumpy by Birth]

The problem right now, in my opinion, is that Disney isn't opening up enough spots for G+ LL's at each attraction. By all reports, guests with G+ are flying right through the Lightning Lanes, versus maybe a 5-10 minute wait that we used to have historically with FP+. G+ spots for many rides are running out by 1-2 pm, leaving folks out cold for any good G+'s after that. To solve this issue I think Disney should open the G+ capacity for all those attractions that are running out so early, to the point were there is still some wait, say averaging 10 minutes max. That would allow far more folks to make good use of the system like we were able to back with FP+.

This seems to be a good compromise that could greatly enhance the experience for those who purchase G+. Others might disagree but I, for one, would much rather have a 10-15 minute wait for 4-6 rides (maybe even more would be possible) than to have a 0-5 minute wait for just 2 or 3 rides. With SB waits that are regularly 30 minutes to several hours long, a 15 minute wait is pretty reasonable and approaching G+ distribution this way seems like it would better balance the system.

I'm kind of surprised that, after months of collecting data, Disney hasn't been able to conduct this kind of analysis and improve the system (or, if they have, they simply choose not to make those changes). If they think it will result in lost revenue, there's no way they'll make this kind of change but, a better product should actually increase sales.

 

[AnnabelleTheTalkingTree]

Sorry, I'm cackling at the insinuation that you didn't need to have knowledge to work FP+.

There's definitely a learning curve to both. But I thought the big push for Genie+ was to be able to cut down on super planning and stress and the need for prior knowledge to make the system work for you. Turns out you need prior knowledge for both systems. As someone who used Fastpass+ completely blindly in the testing phase (as in, we were given magic bands in Disney and did zero prior research as to how the app worked), and someone who is now trying to figure out the in's and out's of Genie+, I think Fastpass+ seemed less stressful going in. So if both systems require planning/strategizing, but one is paid and one was included..... Idk, my vote is still for FP+

 

[gregskellington]

There's definitely a learning curve to both. But I thought the big push for Genie+ was to be able to cut down on super planning and stress and the need for prior knowledge to make the system work for you. Turns out you need prior knowledge for both systems. As someone who used Fastpass+ completely blindly in the testing phase (as in, we were given magic bands in Disney and did zero prior research as to how the app worked), and someone who is now trying to figure out the in's and out's of Genie+, I think Fastpass+ seemed less stressful going in. So if both systems require planning/strategizing, but one is paid and one was included..... Idk, my vote is still for FP+

Testing FP+ during the testing phase is not the same as actually using it blind before the covid shutdowns when the program was really running, so that feels unfair.

It's not wrong to like one or the other, as they are both very flawed (one is much less flawed, IMO, but that's my opinion). I just take great issue with how many opinions about G+ vs FP+ are presented as and treated as fact on this board. It's fine to acknowledge that FP+ worked better for you, you don't want to learn something else, you liked being able to repeat rides, whatever. I just cringe seeing things like that being presented by users here as factual reasons that G+ is "worse" than FP+.

 

[AnnabelleTheTalkingTree]

Testing FP+ during the testing phase is not the same as actually using it blind before the covid shutdowns when the program was really running, so that feels unfair.

It's not wrong to like one or the other, as they are both very flawed (one is much less flawed, IMO, but that's my opinion). I just take great issue with how many opinions about G+ vs FP+ are presented as and treated as fact on this board. It's fine to acknowledge that FP+ worked better for you, you don't want to learn something else, you liked being able to repeat rides, whatever. I just cringe seeing things like that being presented by users here as factual reasons that G+ is "worse" than FP+.

My intention wasn't to present my opinion as fact. That's why I said "I think." I feel way more stressed out trying to figure out Genie+ than I ever did when I was figuring out Fastpass+. That's my own experience. Right at the beginning of Fastpass+ I was in the park using it right before it went live. I never felt confused, and to me, it seemed user-friendly and intuitive. At launch of Genie+ I sat at home watching video after video of vloggers trying to explain how to use this thing, and even after tons of research I still don't quite feel like I have a handle on it. I haven't actually used Genie+ yet, so that IS somewhat of an unfair comparison, but I still feel like if I have to read 80 articles on it to understand how it works, then it's probably not all that user-friendly or intuitive.

 

[snikki]

There's definitely a learning curve to both. But I thought the big push for Genie+ was to be able to cut down on super planning and stress and the need for prior knowledge to make the system work for you. Turns out you need prior knowledge for both systems. As someone who used Fastpass+ completely blindly in the testing phase (as in, we were given magic bands in Disney and did zero prior research as to how the app worked), and someone who is now trying to figure out the in's and out's of Genie+, I think Fastpass+ seemed less stressful going in. So if both systems require planning/strategizing, but one is paid and one was included..... Idk, my vote is still for FP+

I was a huge fan of FP+. I haven't used G+ yet.

I don’t think G+ will be difficult to navigate for the average guest. Most people will get up at 7 or later, book a ride and then just book rides throughout the day. One at a time. They aren’t going to research stacking or how to maximize their time. Heck 50% of guests aren’t even buying the product and I wonder how many just add it to their tickets because their TA asked them or they saw it as they checked out on the site. Those certainly aren’t researching much.

I believe people like us, on the Dis and other Disney sites, make it harder than it has to be because we are trying to maximize the product and our time. We are trying to figure out all the little nuisances so we can “beat the system” so to speak. I will be one of those people in November.

 

[Grumpy by Birth]

I was a huge fan of FP+. I haven't used G+ yet.

I don’t think G+ will be difficult to navigate for the average guest. Most people will get up at 7 or later, book a ride and then just book rides throughout the day. One at a time. They aren’t going to research stacking or how to maximize their time. Heck 50% of guests aren’t even buying the product and I wonder how many just add it to their tickets because their TA asked them or they saw it as they checked out on the site. Those certainly aren’t researching much.

I believe people like us, on the Dis and other Disney sites, make it harder than it has to be because we are trying to maximize the product and our time. We are trying to figure out all the little nuisances so we can “beat the system” so to speak. I will be one of those people in November.

But are those "average" guests going to be disappointed in spending $15 each and only being able to get a small number of LL reservations throughout the day because the slots (especially those for the most popular rides) are gone for the day by the time they get to their third selection?

As mentioned above, I think they really have to figure out how to balance the system so that those who pay for G+ will get more than a handful of LL rides or else the backlash is going to just keep building as more and more people feel ripped off when they pay and can't get LLs for most of the rides they want.

 

[JenSop]

Testing FP+ during the testing phase is not the same as actually using it blind before the covid shutdowns when the program was really running, so that feels unfair.

It's not wrong to like one or the other, as they are both very flawed (one is much less flawed, IMO, but that's my opinion). I just take great issue with how many opinions about G+ vs FP+ are presented as and treated as fact on this board. It's fine to acknowledge that FP+ worked better for you, you don't want to learn something else, you liked being able to repeat rides, whatever. I just cringe seeing things like that being presented by users here as factual reasons that G+ is "worse" than FP+.

Although some of us here HAVE used both systems and can report back with feedback as to real-world actual usage.
I've presented my reasons earlier in the thread as to why I didn't like G+. (And why I significantly preferred FP+.)
I'm not speculating, I'm sharing my own personal situation, and as a result, the way I've come to form my own opinion.

I'm sure there are people who will like this new system better. In fact, I know there are people who like it better. We can each have our preferred systems.
Morning-people will like this new G+ system.
People who didn't like booking FPs 60 days out will like this new G+ system.
People who don't worry so much about dining out at nice TS restaurants every night will like this new system.

We night owls are not a good fit for G+.
Us uber planners are not a good fit with G+.

Just my two cents!

 

[Westerner]

Morning-people will like this new G+ system.
People who didn't like booking FPs 60 days out will like this new G+ system.
People who don't worry so much about dining out at nice TS restaurants every night will like this new system.

We night owls are not a good fit for G+.
Us uber planners are not a good fit with G+.

I agree with your assessment above.

 

[Orsino]

We used to be morning people, but on our recent visit we switched to 'night owl' mode and Genie+ was great for that. We built up an arsenal of G+LL and used them in the late afternoon/evening to great effect. One evening we went to MK with a 5:15PM ish arrival and rode 8 rides (5LL and 3 standby), had an ice cream snack, dinner, and fireworks (off center view) all within 4 hours (9PM close).
I felt that was a great use of G+LL for the evening. My feeling, though I never tested it out, was that in the morning we would run out of time with G+ faster, meaning G+ times would move past the time we were planning to be in the park and become useless faster. I guess it depends on what you choose to ride.
TS dining was a pain though. We did okay with that too, but it does require 'more work.'

 

[JenSop]

We used to be morning people, but on our recent visit we switched to 'night owl' mode and Genie+ was great for that. We built up an arsenal of G+LL and used them in the late afternoon/evening to great effect. One evening we went to MK with a 5:15PM ish arrival and rode 8 rides (5LL and 3 standby), had an ice cream snack, dinner, and fireworks (off center view) all within 4 hours (9PM close).
I felt that was a great use of G+LL for the evening. My feeling, though I never tested it out, was that in the morning we would run out of time with G+ faster, meaning G+ times would move past the time we were planning to be in the park and become useless faster. I guess it depends on what you choose to ride.
TS dining was a pain though. We did okay with that too, but it does require 'more work.'

The problem with that model (which I didn't plan for) was the conflicts with all of our TS dinners. We are a childless couple. Part of OUR Disney experience is going out every night for really nice sit-down dinners. I was HOPING before I got down there in January, that I could successfully "stack" our rides for the afternoon each day. (Trying to recreate what I used to do with booking afternoon FP+ times.) That did not work in MK. (It kind of worked in DHS, but I STILL had to get up at 7am to accomplish it, which is kind of torture for this night owl.) In MK, I got two rides from my G+ and booked one ILL. That was it. By early afternoon, all the return times for the rides I wanted were in the evening, conflicting with our ADR for dinner.

 

[Westerner]

I watched a documentary on "The History of Fastpasses" available on Youtube and I HIGHLY recommend it (if you can devote an hour and a half)
because it really explains the whole system and how its going to be very hard for Disney to change it now that they invested so much money in it.
I learned a lot.
And for the record, I HATED the system when we were there a few weeks back.

Thanks for this! I found Disney's Fastpass: A Complicated History on Youtube. It's very long but I really enjoyed it - they do a great job of explaining theme park queueing in simple terms. I particularly liked the Fastpass (or G+) as "monster" metaphor towards the end.

 

[Grasshopper2016]

We have been to Disney twice since the start of Genie+. It is better than I thought it was going to be, and I feel like I have (through a ton of research and some trial and error) come reasonably close to maximizing its value. I've used every trick in the book to significant success. But all told, I'm still not a fan.

Here are my biggest concerns:

(1) In order to get the maximum benefit, you have to wake up before 7:00 each day, no matter what your plan is for that day. If you are rope-dropping for early entry, that might not be that big a deal (though it can be a hassle if 7:00 comes when you wanted to be in the shower or the car). But if you were hoping to sleep in, or had been out late the previous night (for instance, for extended evening hours), it can be brutal. There were multiple days when I was planning to go right back to sleep after booking my first LLs. But the adrenaline rush made that impossible. And it meant that I was cranky and sleep deprived throughout the trip. Hardly a vacation. FP+ was way better in this regard.

(2) In order to ride the best rides without waiting in crazy lines, you need to pony up ILL$+ money in addition to Genie+. I'm someone who is willing to pay extra to skip lines. But the cost of G+ plus two ILL$+ each day really adds up. I'm not sure the value is really there.

(3) Not being able to choose your times can wreck havoc with your ADRs. Very stressful and frustrating.

(4) I hate that the time that you click is often very different from the time that you actually get. Bush league. Disney should at least hold the time slot until you finish the reservation, the way they did with FP+. Sometimes you click on 11:00 and they give you 4:30. Not cool.

(5) It is very frustrating that, especially on busy days, you often have to choose between number of LLs and quality of LLs. It's easy to get LLs for things like Buzz, Spaceship Earth, and Star Tours. You could do a bunch of those, or you could do rides like SDD or PPF or MFSR. But if you choose the latter, the very late return times, combined with the 2-hour cooldown window, mean that you end up getting many fewer LLs. And it is very hard to get, say, both MFSR and SDD in the same day. So "one LL per ride per day" ends up being a pipe dream. That combined with the exclusion of the ILL$ rides really decreases the value of G+.

(6) I had many IT problems during my trips. The app would freeze or get stuck in some sort of loop, and the best time slots would slip away while I was powerless to do anything about it. If I'm going to wake up at 6:45 after a late night, or set my timer for 2 hours and interrupt a sit-down meal, I expect the system to work as advertised. Many times, it didn't. Don't charge for a service that you can't consistently and effectively provide.

 

[JenSop]

We have been to Disney twice since the start of Genie+. It is better than I thought it was going to be, and I feel like I have (through a ton of research and some trial and error) come reasonably close to maximizing its value. I've used every trick in the book to significant success. But all told, I'm still not a fan.

Here are my biggest concerns:

(1) In order to get the maximum benefit, you have to wake up before 7:00 each day, no matter what your plan is for that day. If you are rope-dropping for early entry, that might not be that big a deal (though it can be a hassle if 7:00 comes when you wanted to be in the shower or the car). But if you were hoping to sleep in, or had been out late the previous night (for instance, for extended evening hours), it can be brutal. There were multiple days when I was planning to go right back to sleep after booking my first LLs. But the adrenaline rush made that impossible. And it meant that I was cranky and sleep deprived throughout the trip. Hardly a vacation. FP+ was way better in this regard.

(2) In order to ride the best rides without waiting in crazy lines, you need to pony up ILL$+ money in addition to Genie+. I'm someone who is willing to pay extra to skip lines. But the cost of G+ plus two ILL$+ each day really adds up. I'm not sure the value is really there.

(3) Not being able to choose your times can wreck havoc with your ADRs. Very stressful and frustrating.

(4) I hate that the time that you click is often very different from the time that you actually get. Bush league. Disney should at least hold the time slot until you finish the reservation, the way they did with FP+. Sometimes you click on 11:00 and they give you 4:30. Not cool.

(5) It is very frustrating that, especially on busy days, you often have to choose between number of LLs and quality of LLs. It's easy to get LLs for things like Buzz, Spaceship Earth, and Star Tours. You could do a bunch of those, or you could do rides like SDD or PPF or MFSR. But if you choose the latter, the very late return times, combined with the 2-hour cooldown window, mean that you end up getting many fewer LLs. And it is very hard to get, say, both MFSR and SDD in the same day. So "one LL per ride per day" ends up being a pipe dream. That combined with the exclusion of the ILL$ rides really decreases the value of G+.

(6) I had many IT problems during my trips. The app would freeze or get stuck in some sort of loop, and the best time slots would slip away while I was powerless to do anything about it. If I'm going to wake up at 6:45 after a late night, or set my timer for 2 hours and interrupt a sit-down meal, I expect the system to work as advertised. Many times, it didn't. Don't charge for a service that you can't consistently and effectively provide.

Yes, yes, and yes!
And you make a great point about the adrenaline in the morning. For example, on our full DHS day, I got up so I could buy a spot for RotR. But the app was glitching really bad. It took almost 15 minutes, as I kept getting signed out by the app for no reason. I saw the return times getting later and later and later. (And of course we had dinner ADRs, so I couldn't get too late of a time.) Needless to say, that adrenaline made it impossible to go back to sleep. I ended up going to the park relatively early, while my husband got to sleep in. He joined me later.

 

[mamaofsix]

The biggest issues with FP and G+ are caused by too much demand / crowding in the parks. In my opinion, this is because Disney leadership refuses to do the one thing that will fix the capacity issues: build more attractions / offer more people-eating options like restaurants, shows, etc. The few "new" attractions they are building are mostly replacing old ones they have closed down. And they are building these at a snail's pace with skeleton crews in order to save a buck. Taking YEARS to build what Universal can build in months. They are short staffed across the board - I wonder if this would be the case if they offered better pay incentives to new employees.

I mean, their earnings report proves they have the money to invest in the parks - they just won't do it. Wait times at certain other parks nearby are much smaller even with huge crowds - because they offer more attractions, and are constantly increasing that number in order to meet demand.

 

[Donaldsfans]

People that hate Genie for "having to look at your phone all day"....we're you only using three FP+ a day? I don't see how this critique makes any sense, this is the one part that feels essentially exactly the same.

Yes, we didn't pay for it. You can barely use more than three a day with ge in plus. Also, with the fast pass, you could plan where you would be in the park, whether to get up early or go later. With genie plus, you have no idea where you will be or when until your phone tells you. The mobile ordering is also phone centric. One day I went to a counter service and they weren't letting anyone in unless they had pre-ordered. I had, so they let me in. But, they were turning people away. When I got in, there were no tables and we had to wait for one. I had already paid over $80 dollars for that meal, so I couldn't just leave. It's rude and it's unmagical.

 

[snikki]

It won’t be as limited once they raise the price of G+. Demand will go down and there will be more ride times available. I see this coming in the next few months.

 

[AnnabelleTheTalkingTree]

I was a huge fan of FP+. I haven't used G+ yet.

I don’t think G+ will be difficult to navigate for the average guest. Most people will get up at 7 or later, book a ride and then just book rides throughout the day. One at a time. They aren’t going to research stacking or how to maximize their time. Heck 50% of guests aren’t even buying the product and I wonder how many just add it to their tickets because their TA asked them or they saw it as they checked out on the site. Those certainly aren’t researching much.

I believe people like us, on the Dis and other Disney sites, make it harder than it has to be because we are trying to maximize the product and our time. We are trying to figure out all the little nuisances so we can “beat the system” so to speak. I will be one of those people in November.

I will say I am probably feeling more nervous and overwhelmed by Genie+ because I'm planning for a larger, multi-generational group. If it was just my nuclear family maybe it would be easier. But our group is comprised of 4 different households, so figuring out who is going to buy Genie+ and when, realizing that I am going to be the one with my face stuck in a phone all day (as opposed to planning ahead of time). We used to always take an afternoon break but Genie+ has changed our entire touring style, which is especially tough considering A) we kind of "need" Genie+ because we have little kids who can't handle long lines, and B) those same little kids are the ones who need the afternoon break to avoid overstimulation.

 

[Meglen]

I will say I am probably feeling more nervous and overwhelmed by Genie+ because I'm planning for a larger, multi-generational group. If it was just my nuclear family maybe it would be easier. But our group is comprised of 4 different households, so figuring out who is going to buy Genie+ and when, realizing that I am going to be the one with my face stuck in a phone all day (as opposed to planning ahead of time). We used to always take an afternoon break but Genie+ has changed our entire touring style, which is especially tough considering A) we kind of "need" Genie+ because we have little kids who can't handle long lines, and B) those same little kids are the ones who need the afternoon break to avoid overstimulation.

If these family's want to go they can get there own mde and manage there own family's. I understand that maybe you feel like you are the planner so you have to do it.. or they are older and don't have smart phones. But this is to much. 4 groups will never be hanging by the hip all trip nor wanting to do all the same rides. This is just a recipe for you burning out and hating your own vacation.

When we did multiple groups we only planned a few meals together and a shopping day. Other than that they wanted to do there own thing.