Genie+ has GOT TO GO!

[Aspencreek]

Universals system works, Disneyland's system doesn't. We visited Universal back in October 2021 and had a great time with their fastlane system. Was it pricey, yes. But it kept the standby lines manageable. Disney really needs to increase the price and limit the number of sales. Flex pricing with unlimited users will not work.

Just looked at Universal's ticket pricing to see how it compares to Disney's. Basically you can pay $80 extra over standard ticket for their version of Genie+ (express ride access to all rides/shows once per day), or an extra $260 for their version of VIP Tour (unlimited express ride access, guided tour, snacks, vip meal, valet parking.)

I like that system concept much better. If DIsney insists on a paid LL system rather than free Fastpasses of old then Genie+ really should be more like $80 a day and include more rides, because at $20 they are getting wayyyyy too many buyers which is ruining the park experience for everyone.

 

[By-Tor and Snow Pup]

The best visit we've had for a while was last July 2021. The parks were mostly back to normal from shutdowns, mask mandates had been dropped, and there was NO GENIE+ and NO FASTPASS/LL system in place -- and it was great! Everyone was on a level playing field and I swear the lines were overall shorter and moved at a good pace. We rode probably double the rides overall in the same number of days as the trip we just did. The one ride we didn't do that trip that we wanted was Space Mtn - only because the line was always a bit longer than we wanted to wait. But at least if we DID decide to wait we would know for sure how long it would take (pretty accurately) and wouldn't have to watch 10,000 LLs get ushered past us for 2 hours.

That was the best time at Disneyland, but there was another very big difference other than Genie not existing.

 

[StormyCA]

Just looked at Universal's ticket pricing to see how it compares to Disney's. Basically you can pay $80 extra over standard ticket for their version of Genie+ (express ride access to all rides/shows once per day), or an extra $260 for their version of VIP Tour (unlimited express ride access, guided tour, snacks, vip meal, valet parking.)

I like that system concept much better. If DIsney insists on a paid LL system rather than free Fastpasses of old then Genie+ really should be more like $80 a day and include more rides, because at $20 they are getting wayyyyy too many buyers which is ruining the park experience for everyone.

If that's per person with no minimum charge and all day express pass (unlike DL's VIP service minimum of $3500.00 for a guided 10 hr max), I'd be willing to pay that for one day. That's not a bad price considering all you get.

And considering that G+ starts at $25.00 + extra for ILLs, an extra $55.00 for a couple of days for ALL rides at no 'extra charge' for the popular ones (not just selected rides) isn't that bad, either.

Now, if motion sickness didn't just rule out a huge number of Universal's rides I'd be there like a shot.

 

[dmar]

Well comparing Universal and Disneyland attendance and searching it from google.

2021 Universal attendance was 5.5 million
2021 DCA was 4.9 million
2021 Disneyland attendance was 8.5 million

so I think the comps from Disneyland and universal can be a little skewed. 3 million extra visitors over a year is roughly another 8000 plus guests at Disneyland per day compared to Universal. 8000 visitors will slow the line no matter what system they're going to use. Only way is really to increase ticket prices to bring the crowds less, or the reservation system.. but that seems to be back at pre pandemic levels. (not ticket prices of course... tho I wish ! )

Agree, genie plus system isn't ideal... fast pass was so much better for the customer experience... plus it was better for some of us as we would get more exercise walking from one end of the park to the other for a future fast pass.... ever since genie plus, I've walked less in the parks in total mileage compared to days of yonder.

unfortunately, unless there is a mass revolt and customers not going to the parks, Disneyland won't change this system except for increasing the price which they have already started. I can't imagine having to deal with a vip line, genie plus line, stand by line.... there is just no space for all of that..... but wouldn't surprise me if Disney can make extra money and customers are willing to pay for it, the process may be very well in the works... especially with technological advances and magic bands.

 

[kristensideaoffun]

I will say. While this is technically true and I know it’s possible. The rides wait times go out so fast in the afternoon/evening. If I cancel, there might not be any left and I can’t see where it’s at if I already have an LL. I didn’t want to risk it. All previous maxpass users are supremely disappointed. Wow my trip was different.

I’m normally a 5 day trip, stay at the Grand, annual pass holder, blue bayou fantasmic dinner buying, dessert party buying type of customer (for 7-9 people). With their new prices/systems, I went down to 2 day and a Halloween party for this last trip. Going down to 2 days made me feel like I didn’t want to spend the time doing the up charge experiences like WOC dessert party.

It’s interesting/sad to see the changes in trips die-hard fans are having to make at this time. Disney just has to be counting on new families coming to experience it, that families like mine will still give some $$ (albeit less) and eventually everyone will get used to it?!? I don’t know but I am really sad.

There are multiple ways you can see return times for a ride you already have a LL for. You can see the LL return times by clicking on the ride on the map. It will also show up on the LL list. I did this many times on my last trip a few weeks ago.

 

[kristensideaoffun]

Well comparing Universal and Disneyland attendance and searching it from google.

2021 Universal attendance was 5.5 million
2021 DCA was 4.9 million
2021 Disneyland attendance was 8.5 million

so I think the comps from Disneyland and universal can be a little skewed. 3 million extra visitors over a year is roughly another 8000 plus guests at Disneyland per day compared to Universal. 8000 visitors will slow the line no matter what system they're going to use. Only way is really to increase ticket prices to bring the crowds less, or the reservation system.. but that seems to be back at pre pandemic levels. (not ticket prices of course... tho I wish ! )

Agree, genie plus system isn't ideal... fast pass was so much better for the customer experience... plus it was better for some of us as we would get more exercise walking from one end of the park to the other for a future fast pass.... ever since genie plus, I've walked less in the parks in total mileage compared to days of yonder.

unfortunately, unless there is a mass revolt and customers not going to the parks, Disneyland won't change this system except for increasing the price which they have already started. I can't imagine having to deal with a vip line, genie plus line, stand by line.... there is just no space for all of that..... but wouldn't surprise me if Disney can make extra money and customers are willing to pay for it, the process may be very well in the works... especially with technological advances and magic bands.

But DLR has 2 times the attractions and entertainment options as Universal…

 

[Mr. Mike]

2021 Universal attendance was 5.5 million
2021 DCA was 4.9 million
2021 Disneyland attendance was 8.5 million

These numbers are interesting and fun to discuss but the truth is that Disney and Universal don't release attendance figures. These widely-quoted numbers are merely guesses made by a third-party organization for consumption by the content-hungry media.

 

[CeCe0906]

what I don't get is that Universal has had a paid system for years but doesn't have the line issues like disney does.
what is their secret formula?
I will be there in a few weeks and we can't afford G+ for our group for 5 days, I may purchase it on one day but it's unlikely.
I have resigned myself to the fact that very little actual attractions will get done on this trip - which is a very sad state of affairs.

Universal Express pass is also $$$, unlimited more than the ticket itself, I think. It is also only sold in limited quantities, unlike Genie, which everyone can buy if they want to.
Genie would work better, with less phone hassle, if 1, there were three versions to buy. 1 Say 3 lightening lane passes for one park, or 3 each park for hopper.
2. One per ride, all day.
3. Unlimited rides per day
.#1, no limits on buying like now, current price, buy day of or when buy tickets
#2 limited quantities at least 2x price, only available when purchasing tickets
#3 even more limited quantities at least 3x price only available when purchasing tickets
Eliminate times, show up and if LL busy move on to something else, or wait your choice.
Universal aims for their express lane to be at least half the wait of regular standby, new rides usually have virtual queue system for a while, no express. And their deluxe hotels include the regular express pass for everyone in the room on check in and check our day, so a one night stay at the hotel can be a deal for families, plus early entry.

They overly complicated the whole thing.

But Disney has got a lot right. I was holding my breath to fit in some of Universal ride systems, I'm a size 18, Im not talking about only rollercoasters, either. Their dining options are not great, and seating limited when you get your food. They need a few more rides for the elementary age crowd and younger. Though Suess land is fun in Orlando. And putting your stuff in lockers constantly gets old. Photo pass much better at Disney. Too much reliance on screens rides at Universal IMHO.

 

[DisneylandFan22]

I hate the shareholder excuse. I’ve been a shareholder for like 20 years. I want the stock to do well but I also want to enjoy my experiences with the company. By the way, they still haven’t brought back the quarterly dividend.

 

[AndrewC]

I think what Disney needs to do is just jack prices up a lot, maybe $50+ a day. There is just too much demand right now. The way they’re trying to do it is nickel and dime and instead it isn’t working well for anyone and feels like a cash grab once you already got in the park.

If the price was just much steeper most the year (have a few times it’s low, February, maybe a random couple weeks mid summer, etc) that would cut demand a lot and allow a much better experience. Of course that would be a much better experience for those that can go, and it certainly would price people out… but that’s really the only solution I can see to “lower the wait times.”

Either that or you literally put everyone in a queue for the big attractions. I missed Rise a couple times last October when I went, but the times I did get into the digital queue… wait times were like 20 minutes or less, most times it was almost walk on. That’s a strong gamble where saving up and throwing money at it doesn’t buy your way on. The much higher price still allows you to save up more, reduce the number of days, etc and buy your way in…

 

[Snap Crackle Pop]

I think what Disney needs to do is just jack prices up a lot, maybe $50+ a day. There is just too much demand right now. The way they’re trying to do it is nickel and dime and instead it isn’t working well for anyone and feels like a cash grab once you already got in the park.

If the price was just much steeper most the year (have a few times it’s low, February, maybe a random couple weeks mid summer, etc) that would cut demand a lot and allow a much better experience. Of course that would be a much better experience for those that can go, and it certainly would price people out… but that’s really the only solution I can see to “lower the wait times.”

Either that or you literally put everyone in a queue for the big attractions. I missed Rise a couple times last October when I went, but the times I did get into the digital queue… wait times were like 20 minutes or less, most times it was almost walk on. That’s a strong gamble where saving up and throwing money at it doesn’t buy your way on. The much higher price still allows you to save up more, reduce the number of days, etc and buy your way in…

I think 50 dollars a day is also too low. I would say maybe 100 a day, and then for like Rise and Radiator Springs if they keep ILL make them like 75. That sounds ridiculous I'm sure to some, but I know it will weed out a lot of people from overusing it.

 

[AndrewC]

I think 50 dollars a day is also too low. I would say maybe 100 a day, and then for like Rise and Radiator Springs if they keep ILL make them like 75. That sounds ridiculous I'm sure to some, but I know it will weed out a lot of people from overusing it.

Maybe… a two day ticket is already $345 if you park hop, bumping that to $445 seems like a huge bump. A family of four for two days would be $1,800.

Maybe that isn’t high enough but I feel like that might cut crowds a bit… you probably really only need to cut them down ~25% to bring most stuff back into line with normal wait times but not painfully insane ones.

Also bringing back a theater show over at DCA soaks up a large amount of people two or three times a day.

 

[SOCALMouseMommy]

Let’s not forget that Disney could reduce the crowds at any time thanks to their reservation system. They don’t want to.

I don’t think more price hikes will do it either. But I do think that if what Disney is offering is no longer worth the huge prices Disney is charging, people will stop coming. But that could take years to become evident.

 

[Aspencreek]

Let’s not forget that Disney could reduce the crowds at any time thanks to their reservation system. They don’t want to.

I don’t think more price hikes will do it either. But I do think that if what Disney is offering is no longer worth the huge prices Disney is charging, people will stop coming. But that could take years to become evident.

It has stopped us from coming already. We were going to do a July trip AND an October trip this year. Reports of breakdowns, huge crowds, and lack of shows caused us to cancel the July trip and just do the October one. But it wasn't any better in October and we had our worst trip to DL ever (other than Oogie Bash). Probably won't be back for a couple years now and will seek other places to go instead until we hear of vast improvements. Our family won't be missed by Disney, but I have to think that we will be joined by thousands of others and a tipping point will soon be reached if they don't return the value that use to be there.

 

[SOCALMouseMommy]

It has stopped us from coming already. We were going to do a July trip AND an October trip this year. Reports of breakdowns, huge crowds, and lack of shows caused us to cancel the July trip and just do the October one. But it wasn't any better in October and we had our worst trip to DL ever (other than Oogie Bash). Probably won't be back for a couple years now and will seek other places to go instead until we hear of vast improvements. Our family won't be missed by Disney, but I have to think that we will be joined by thousands of others and a tipping point will soon be reached if they don't return the value that use to be there.

So sad.

 

[DodgerGirl]

As I mentioned in my post on this thread Genie+ is one of the worst ideas that Disneyland has ever done along with this reservation system that they now have and I think that's why Disneyland is losing some of it's audience and many people have decided to skip their Disneyland trips for next year and I think a lot of the reason why Disneyland is raising it's prices and has also raised the price for Genie+ is that they are really hoping to get more people to go to Disneyland and by raising the price of Genie+ they hope to get more people interested in Genie+ to make their Disneyland trips more simple and not cause stress to people. Because I cannot see paying big bucks to ride Pirates Of The Caribbean or Space Mountain without having to wait in a long line and what Disneyland should do is have Genie+ information kiosks and they would have a direct dial wall phone attached to a wall like Target has in their stores when you need help finding an item. And before you decide to go on a ride that you reserved with Genie+ you call on the phone and ask this "Is this ride operating today?" and you hang up and wait and in a matter of seconds the phone will ring with an answer and if the ride is broken down or closed the guests will recieve a gift card as a consolation prize or a ticket to use on the same ride for a future visit. And believe me this system would work wonders for people that have Genie+

 

[gelatoni fan]

Let’s not forget that Disney could reduce the crowds at any time thanks to their reservation system. They don’t want to.

I don’t think more price hikes will do it either. But I do think that if what Disney is offering is no longer worth the huge prices Disney is charging, people will stop coming. But that could take years to become evident.

Cumulative inflation over the past 20 years was 65% while airfare only increased by 22% and hotel prices increased 52%. You're also getting better hotels near Disneyland than before and with Uber/Lyft, many people can eliminate the cost of renting a car. Even with the prices of tickets growing faster than inflation, the total cost of a Disneyland vacation is still decreasing relative to inflation. Population growth also increases the number of people who can go on trips. So you end up with more people taking more trips.

I think right now, a lot of people are looking for substitutes. It seems like Universal Orlando is successfully stealing guests from Epcot and Animal Kingdom. So more people are choosing to do one day in Magic Kingdom and possibly Hollywood Studios before going to Universal rather than all the WDW parks in a vacation.

But Universal Hollywood isn't good enough yet for more people to make the switch from Disneyland. Interestingly, I've been hearing reports lately of unusually high attendance in Northern California theme parks on the weekend lately. So it seems like some former Norcal Magic Keyholders may be starting to abandon Disneyland for local parks. When the West Coast gets a good substitute for Disneyland is when I think we'll see fewer people at Disneyland.

 

[StormyCA]

As I mentioned in my post on this thread Genie+ is one of the worst ideas that Disneyland has ever done along with this reservation system that they now have and I think that's why Disneyland is losing some of it's audience and many people have decided to skip their Disneyland trips for next year and I think a lot of the reason why Disneyland is raising it's prices and has also raised the price for Genie+ is that they are really hoping to get more people to go to Disneyland and by raising the price of Genie+ they hope to get more people interested in Genie+ to make their Disneyland trips more simple and not cause stress to people. Because I cannot see paying big bucks to ride Pirates Of The Caribbean or Space Mountain without having to wait in a long line and what Disneyland should do is have Genie+ information kiosks and they would have a direct dial wall phone attached to a wall like Target has in their stores when you need help finding an item. And before you decide to go on a ride that you reserved with Genie+ you call on the phone and ask this "Is this ride operating today?" and you hang up and wait and in a matter of seconds the phone will ring with an answer and if the ride is broken down or clot ised the guests will recieve a gift card as a consolation prize or a ticket to use on the same ride for a future visit. And believe me this system would work wonders for people that have Genie+

But in a way, you can already do this. The DL app will tell you if a ride is down although I'm not sure how 'instantaneous' it posts 101s and closures, and you do get an MEP if it is, although not for a future visit.

The key, to me, is simply the number of people in the parks. Although they'd never do it, the whole thing could be solved by reducing the capacity cap. When we were at WDW in '21 they were still at reduced capacities due to Covid. IIRC it was about 60%. There was also no FP+. It was a dream. Yes, there were some long waits for the most popular rides but they were balanced out by shorter waits for so many of the others.

What we're experiencing, I'm afraid, is the 'new normal'. We know from past experience that 'if they charge it, we will come'. For every person who taps out, there are still 3 waiting to take their place.

 

[MillauFr]

Genie+ can be easily fixed by jacking up the price

 

[V.I.N.CENT.]

Disneyland's system forces people on a ride at a particular time. Factor in breakdowns and MEPs, it's hard to control. If LL did not have restricted return times, I think it would be far more manageable due to standard crowd flows.