Gator grabs 2 year old at Grand Floridian?

[dlavender]

Also, if you took a poll asking tourists "have you ever seen lightning outside" or "have you ever seen an alligator in nature", I'm pretty sure you would see a skew towards the former......Let's be honest.

Unless you have a gator finding app on your phone. Unless you can see them coming somehow. Ridiculous.

 

[mikebb]

You can see lightning. You can see a storm approaching. Everyone has an app on their phone where an individual can pull radar footage and watch it coming. You can look up into the sky and see it. Disney closes rides/pools when its close. Lightning is in no way in the same conversation as a hidden danger such as an alligator. Come on.

That was pretty much my point earlier. As you and others have noted, people should be very well aware of the dangers of lightning, but choose to take a (calculated?) risk judging by all the people I still see strolling around the world before/during/after bad lightning storms. And the relative risk of a lightning strike injury or fatality is MUCH higher than an alligator attack at Disney.

Here we all are arguing over whether 'Disney did enough' or the 'the parents were negligent.' Seems like everyone loves to bash our litigious society and "ambulance chasing" lawyers, but are equally quick to come out and pronounce how they have the answers to who is to blame and what "could have been done..." Perhaps some things should be left as just tragic accidents.

 

[rteetz]

I disagree. If it's true that these animals have been fed by guests at Bay Lake which this article states, then they were indeed becoming desensitized to humans. You have to incorporate this into your risk assessment. I would argue the risk to public safety is impacted under these circumstances and do not consider this to be misinformation.

http://www.thewrap.com/gator-attack...-staffer-asked-for-fence-at-lagoon-exclusive/

The article doesn't say bay lake specifically but being fed by guests in the area. I think people are getting the lakes confused. Bay lake is on the back side of the contemporary and is a natural Florida lake. Seven seas lagoon is the lake the attack took place. Feeding alligators in Florida is illegal. You aren't going to catch everyone doing it unless you have cameras everywhere and even that might not help. Disney has signs to not feed birds and yet people still do that.

 

[poison ivy]

The article doesn't say bay lake specifically but being fed by guests in the area. I think people are getting the lakes confused. Bay lake is on the back side of the contemporary and is a natural Florida lake. Seven seas lagoon is the lake the attack took place. Feeding alligators in Florida is illegal. You aren't going to catch everyone doing it unless you have cameras everywhere and even that might not help. Disney has signs to not feed birds and yet people still do that.

that's my fault. I tend to lump them together. correction made.
but does Disney have any do not feed the alligator signs around the resorts?

 

[rteetz]

that's my fault. I tend to lump them together. correction made.
but does Disney have any do not feed the alligator signs around the resorts?

No they do not. Which I think their hope and even my hope is people would have enough common sense to not feed alligators. Why would you think to feed an alligator that just doesn't make sense to me. I'm not those people though.

 

[poison ivy]

No they do not. Which I think their hope and even my hope is people would have enough common sense to not feed alligators. Why would you think to feed an alligator that just doesn't make sense to me. I'm not those people though.

People seem willing to feed anything. It's crazy. I hadn't considered the bungalows being part of the problem til hearing about it now.

 

[dlavender]

As you and others have noted, people should be very well aware of the dangers of lightning, but choose to take a (calculated?) risk judging by all the people I still see strolling around the world before/during/after bad lightning storms.

Because they have experienced it before. People in Nevada have seen lightning. In their neighborhood. How many have seen an alligator? That's what you are missing.

If Disney had "rain chairs" out made specifically to sit in the rain, just like lounge chairs on the beach 2 feet from the waters edge, then I would see your point. But Disney does not encourage sitting out in storms, like they do sitting next to the water.

Apples to Cars.

Not even close.

 

[MinnieSweetheart]

Exactly, they stay stay out, because they mean, stay out.

They don't say, no playing in this area, hoping that you interpret stay out.......

Just like no swimming should say, stay out, not no swimming.

I think you agree.

Yes in the line below that you conveniently didn't quote??

 

[MinnieSweetheart]

I am stating that I agree they made a poor choice to allow their child in the water, because I have seen no swimming signs listed for a host of reasons as to why it was not safe to swim. Allowing him in the water was already a bad choice, because any number of things besides a dangerous predator could have happened. That is what this family has to live with.

But at the same I am simply stating that a sign that had the no swimming/alligator warning (like the one posted across the street at SOG) would likely be more of an alert to a parent not to allow their child anywhere near the water. I think that is a much clearer warning, when many people would otherwise think that getting your feet wet is not swimming. For the record, I would never enter water or allow my children to enter water where a no swimming sign is posted because I do not know what the particular danger is, but not everyone has my mindset. I do think that even a person from another part of the world though with a different mindset would take the no swimming/alligator sign much more seriously, especially when allowing small children anywhere near it.

Well I agree that they should just change the signs to "Keep out of water" or "Stay out of water" but I don't feel they owe an explanation, because as you mentioned, there are simply a multitude of reasons it could be dangerous. I think we're mostly on the same page though.

 

[Delgado]

You said "storm" which can be and often is vastly different than the danger of lightning. You are missing my point.



I find your hasty judgment and angst somewhat amusing except that this thread is not about bantering but a very serious and sad situation and the concerns going forward. You will find people will take your comments more seriously if you stay within the confines of decorum. (being polite) I was not being argumentative when I responded to you, simply attempting to clarify my original point about lightning being such a danger which another FL poster was wise to bring up since this discussion is about dangers one could meet while at WDW.

Disagreeing with you is not being rude. I said people get storms. I say storms because usually in my location that is when I personally see lightning. Again proving the point that words can mean different things to different people.

Rude is your belittlement of definition of a word that you included because you believe others need help to understand your high and mighty vocabulary. Also your insinuation that a stranger does not take what happened to Lane seriously is rude and argumentative. I will make sure not to respond to your comments again because I have the feeling you may be one of those people who are never wrong.

My apologies to anyone I offended by thinking some of these ludicrous arguements are off subject. I forgot we are talking about anything but an alligator attacking a child at night on a beach in a walt Disney world resort in orlando florida.


So back to the hot water and who gets lightning debate. But please spend atleast 30 minutes typing each response to be specific about exactly what you want to say dont leave anything open to interpretation. It doesnt matter if youre busy tending to life while you want to share a quick comment.

This thread has been so ridiculous. I do enjoy the discussion pertaining to the beaches and wildlife in the area though. I love the knowledge many people have of the area.

 

[rteetz]

People seem willing to feed anything. It's crazy. I hadn't considered the bungalows being part of the problem til hearing about it now.

There's no confirmation that they are part of the problem but they definitely could be. A lot of times those bungalows aren't fully booked so I can't see them being a huge part of the problem.

 

[romitaz]

No they do not. Which I think their hope and even my hope is people would have enough common sense to not feed alligators. Why would you think to feed an alligator that just doesn't make sense to me. I'm not those people though.

 

[STLstone]

The article doesn't say bay lake specifically but being fed by guests in the area. I think people are getting the lakes confused. Bay lake is on the back side of the contemporary and is a natural Florida lake. Seven seas lagoon is the lake the attack took place. Feeding alligators in Florida is illegal. You aren't going to catch everyone doing it unless you have cameras everywhere and even that might not help. Disney has signs to not feed birds and yet people still do that.

The lake and the lagoon are connected by a channel that's about 140 ft wide and 950 ft long. The two bodies of water could seem indistinguishable to well-traveled aquatic life.

 

[XXRAINMANX]

Haven't we shot this thought down already?

Yes, asking Disney to make sure people are aware of alligators in their lagoon is totally the same thing as closing down the whole state. Spot on. You completely understand the arguments.

Yes, warning people of water which they use daily is totally the same thing as warning tourists of your local ecosystem and the dangers that you have personal intimate knowledge of. Again, I'm amazed at how spot on you are.

Yes, eliminating all fun is the exact same thing as asking for better signage.

Asking Disney to say stay out of the water instead of no swimming is the same thing as wanting to live in a bubble.

Great summary of the arguments. Keep dazzling us.

I completely understand the arguments as they are, but as opposed to suggesting extreme knee jerk solutions to a very unlikely to reoccur problem I suggesting we take a step back, take a deep breath and think out logical solutions that are effective verse playing to the current emotional state of everyone. As I have argued throughout this form a sign is only as good as the person reading and understanding it. This thread and yes I have read the entire thing, has established they signs are disregarded regularly and rules are broken on a regular basis despite knowledge of the rules. This thread has also established that risk is a possibility in every situation in life and is typically overlooked despite obvious warnings being present in everyday life. The argument then becomes where does responsibility of the individual end and where does it begin with Disney.

We've also seen arguments suggesting that lakes should be fenced off and entire species of animals should be killed to prevent this from happening again, and many taking a stance of cost is of no issue as long as this can never happen again view, unfortunately regardless of expenses and actions taken this scenario could happen again. The risk will always be present and there will be other unforeseen consequences of those actions taken to prevent this problem. I expanded upon those potential unforeseen consequences and gave ever increasing unreasonable solutions to the consequences ending with Disney being demolished and people living in bubbles because if you were to try and prevent anything from happening to quote finding nemo "DORY Well, you can't never let anything happen to him. Then nothing would ever happen to him. Not much fun for little Harpo"

If you believe that you should have no risks of dying while at Disney and they should ensure you are 100% safe at all times I suggest you re-evaluate your stance to understand risk will always exist, otherwise your other option in my opinion is to never go to Disney again. If you were to take that option I would then argue that you as a person can never reasonably do anything again because risk is present in any situation. The argument then becomes where does responsibility of the individual end and where does it begin with Disney.

Ultimately none of us want this situation to ever happen again, can we all agree on that? Where we differ is on what is considered reasonable expectation of safety, reasonable preventive measures being used, and reasonable expectation of guests and employees following/ enforcing rules, and what could and could not be considered common knowledge.

 

[southerngirl528]

I am on Disney property often. VERY often because I am a longtime DVC member and have lived near WDW for about 2 decades. We enjoy dining on WDW property and I often go out to see folks I know that are CM's. I can only recall seeing one gator in the last 2 years, and that was in Bay Lake behind BLT. But that doesn't mean they aren't there. I do know that Disney has patrolling of the lakes by many boats on a daily basis to look for potential hazards and that includes gators.

That said, I am with our moderator, rteetz in that I think this thread has wandered far from the OP's original intent.

 

[southerngirl528]

You can see lightning. You can see a storm approaching. Everyone has an app on their phone where an individual can pull radar footage and watch it coming. You can look up into the sky and see it. Disney closes rides/pools when its close. Lightning is in no way in the same conversation as a hidden danger such as an alligator. Come on.

An app for area lightning strikes is never a bad idea. But since the topic of the thread has turned to safety vs. danger, if one waits until they SEE lightning, they could still be struck by lightning. Lightning may not be an alligator but it is also a "hidden" danger and just as potentially lethal. Don't take my word for it, check out NOAA's lightning myths/facts.

http://www.lightningsafety.noaa.gov/myths.shtml

(#3)
Myth: If it’s not raining or there aren’t clouds overhead, you’re safe from lightning.
Fact: Lightning often strikes more than three miles from the center of the thunderstorm, far outside the rain or thunderstorm cloud. “Bolts from the blue” can strike 10-15 miles from the thunderstorm.

Ultimately none of us want this situation to ever happen again, can we all agree on that? Where we differ is on what is considered reasonable expectation of safety, reasonable preventive measures being used, and reasonable expectation of guests and employees following/ enforcing rules, and what could and could not be considered common knowledge.

THAT was well said.

 

[rteetz]

The lake and the lagoon are connected by a channel that's about 140 ft wide and 950 ft long. The two bodies of water could seem indistinguishable to well-traveled aquatic life.

Yes that is correct. I'm just taking about distinguishing the lake and lagoon between us on the boards. Some are getting them confused.

 

[southerngirl528]

Just saw this:

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/busi...ator-attack-signs-warning-20160616-story.html

 

[southerngirl528]

Looks like Disney IS going to be changing the signage.

 

[castlecouture2011]

I'm only on page 17 of this thread but I just had to comment...has anyone mentioned the fact that 1/3 of the 40 square miles of Disney property is set aside specifically for wildlife preservation? The idea of killing or removing every remotely dangerous animal from the property is honestly disgusting to me. Humans are selfish selfish creatures, and we are already wreaking havoc on the environment. This was an accident...I would like to know the actual odds. Far less than one in a million, if yearly visitor numbers are any indication. Alligators are going to alligator. And looks like humans are going to human and continue to try to sanitize the nature out of nature.