"gathering" fast passes???

[HolliePoppins]

No one seemed to bring this up yet for OP, but be careful of which FP's you get and when. If you are aiming for efficiency, I find it makes the most sense to go for the most popular FP's first, otherwise those get "sold out" quicker and you end up with a long period (e.g. picking up a fastpass at noon with a window from 5-6 means you can't pick up another fastpass till at least 4, by that point the window for the 4 o'clock fast pass will probably be much later.

If you pick up a fastpass at noon with a return time of 5-6pm you can get another fastpass at 2pm not 4pm.

 

[mikat]

I call it gathering. I have this photo from a morning / lunch @ MK. This was on our afternoon break. We were in the park from RD to 1:30 (including a TS lunch). We just collected or gathered these throughout the morning while we rode other things (oh, one was gifted to us). There was nothing commando about our day. We went back to MK around 6 PM or so and started using them. So to me, it's "gathering", even if you're not getting them all in an hour or anything.

Vicki, you helped me out so much with questions before my first trip to the World, I guess I learned from the best! We weren't being commando at all either.

 

[MikeandReneePlus5]

As others point out, Disney will let you use a FP later the same day. The person that had a wallet full of passports was breaking the rules, and in general in my view they DO check the date frequently. But, as far as using them late on the same day, we do this a lot, and have never been stopped before.

Especially at MK - I typically go and grab a FP every time I am eligible. Admittedly we go at a slow time of year, but for example:

When park opens, we get FP for Peter Pan:
Return time 9:50 - 10:50 next eligible FP: 9:50

@ 9:50 we get FP for Jungle Cruise
Return time 10:30 - 11:30, next eligible FP: 10:30

@ 10:30, we get FP for BTMRR
Return time 11:15 - 12:15 PM, next eligble FP: 11:15 AM

@ 11:30 PM, we're over in tomorrowland - get a FP for Buzz Lightyear
Return time 12:10 - 1:10 PM, next eligible FP: 12:10 PM

@12:10 PM still in tomorrowland - get a FP for Space Mountain
Return time 3:30 PM - 4:30 PM, next eligible FP: 2:20 PM (2 hrs after I got that one, since the return time is > 2 hours out.)

So, now I have 5 sets of FP (Peter Pan, Jungle Cruise, BTMRR, Buzz Lightyear, Space Mountain), which now that it is mid-day and the lines are all long, we go back through the park and use them. Meanwhile, we can still gather MORE FP as we go for using later. We usually don't stay in the park real late, so I don't think I've ever gotten more than about 8 sets of FP. At a busier time of year, the return times might be a lot more spread out. An example of this is at DHS.

Got FP right at Rope Drop before riding TSM Standby - return time 9:50 AM -10:50 AM.
Come back to TSM at 9:50 AM for another set, this time return time is 2:30 PM - 3:30 PM. Next eligible is 11:50 AM (two hours later).

At 11:50 AM, the TSM FP were all gone for the day. But we did get to ride it 3 times with very little wait.

Of course, the flip side to Disney allowing this is the FP return lines are much longer late in the day. (I don't care what Robo says, it DOES affect the FP crowds Disney allowing this.)

Does that all make sense?

Added: I should point out that I am the "FP runner"...I take everyone's tickets and go and get the FP - we usually try to pick up FP for rides that are not too far away from us, but in the past I've run across the park and back to do this. Usually while the others are taking a potty break or doing a little shopping. (You should NEVER do a FP run while your family is "saving" a spot in another line for you. that is extremely rude.) But to the PP that said you don't really "gather" them, I think getting a set every 30-45 minutes and running around the park to get them follows the very definition of "gathering".

I think it is hypocritical to say all this and at the same time say it is rude to allow a fastpass runner to join you on an actual queue.

Getting a fastpass and holding it all day is saying "I am getting on line now, but I will claim my actual physical spot whenever I feel like it".

Telling someone to save you a place on line is saying "I am getting on line now, and I will claim my actual physical spot whenever I feel like it".

The ONLY logical response IMO to saying one is ok and the other isn't is to argue that Disney allows one, but not the other.

Except Disney's policy on one is less than clear (unlike other parks like Cedar Point or Six Flags where it is crystal clear), and in any event it sidesteps the issue altogether, because you are saying one is "rude" and the other you obviously have no problem with.

Hopefully everything will move to 100% virtual queueing and everyone will be happy!

 

[drew64]

It doesn't.



Disney makes the rules, and the rules are that you can use a FP at any time after the Return Time on the date that the FP is received.

No short sticks given.
Everyone is given the same opportunity when using FP.

I don't really care how others use their FPs, but it does have some effect - especially on the stand-by line.

The idea was to spread out the corwd with time increments. If 200 fast passes had return times between 5 and 6, and then another 200 people with earlier fastpasses all decided to use theirs between 5 and 6, it will increase the anticpated number of people in the fast pass line. They will then change the ratio of FPs to stand bys admitted - as they try to keep FP return line moving - lengthening the stand by time for that period.

 

[Robo]

Getting a fastpass and holding it all day is saying "I am getting on line now, but I will claim my actual physical spot whenever I feel like it".

Getting a fastpass and using it within the "window" is saying "I am getting on line now, but I will claim my actual physical spot whenever the printed time says to".

So, if I want to go back LATER than that (not earlier,) who is being damaged?

 

[skier_pete]

I don't know....i guess I'm old fashion. Why can't everyone just follow the rules. Don't want to start a whole debate.... but you should ride the ride you have a FP for during the return time stated on the ticket. If evryone gathered FP's and held them till later in the day it would just screw up the whole system. Those that follow the rules always seem to get the short end of the stick.

There's been plenty of long and quite angry threads about using late FP - but the point I always make is...it's in Disney's rules to allow them to be used late...read the BACK of the FP if you don't beleive it. It basically says 'You cannot use it early, and we prefer that you use it in the window" but doesn't say you cannot use it late. And we've been using them late for 5 years, and never once been stopped. The Disney CM are also TRAINED to ALLOW people to use them late. So, even if you use them late, you ARE following the rules!

In fact, funny story. We were at MK at 10:50 PM last trip, and there was a BIG bunch of people waiting next to Buzz Lightyear for their FP return time. As we walked up to hand our FP the CM announces real loud. "Your FP time must be before 10:50 PM!"

I handed him my FP and said "Is that early enough?" He looked at them and started to say "You have to wait until 11...." but stopped and said "Oh, that's AM...your good." Yup, we used our FP 12 hours late and the CM didn't even blink, but wasn't going to let us use them 10 minutes early.

And, before someone says "Well, then what's the difference between using them later in the day, or just using them the next day, or the next year?" Well, it DOES state on the tickets that it IS only valid THAT day. So, if you try to use them another day, then you ARE breaking the rules.

 

[wcpamotm]

On our recent trip, much of our touring was late afternoon into late night, and here's our experience: at BTMRR, we watched as about 4 dozen fastpass holders were allowed on in front of us; we even overheard a CM wondering where all these fastpasses came from. (Even with that, we had a less-than-advertised wait time, so no worries.) Then later, at Peter Pan, we were part of the fastpass slam. The people who were at the front of the standby line as we passed the merge point finally got to board as we were exiting.

Disney doesn't enforce the window close time (attractions like Soarin have been said to be exceptions), so in spite of my perceptions I'm counting on their judgement that it doesn't screw things up. But I wonder if that will continue to be the case as more people realize that they are not bound to a single hour? Perhaps Disney may decide in the future that they do need to limit late FP usage. If that happens, I can imagine the howls of protest and griping!

 

[Luv Bunnies]

I have to agree with Robo. Disney makes the rules, and the rule is that they don't enforce the end of the return time window.

We "gather" Fastpasses at Disneyland all the time. Last year while my husband attended a convention, the rest of us went on rides and picked up Fastpasses while the lines were relatively short. We carefully watched the time that we were able to get more and continued gathering until around 3:00 p.m. When my husband joined us in the park, we had a set of 4 Fastpasses for every major ride in the park (my sister isn't a big ride person so he used the ones we gathered on her ticket).

Later in the day, no CMs told us we couldn't use "late" Fastpasses. In fact, we asked if we could use them and they said yes, as long as they're from the same day.

I don't consider it gaming the system or giving anyone else the short end of teh stick as long as Disney allows it. They could easily choose to strickly enforce the end time, but they choose not to.

 

[skier_pete]

I think it is hypocritical to say all this and at the same time say it is rude to allow a fastpass runner to join you on an actual queue.

Getting a fastpass and holding it all day is saying "I am getting on line now, but I will claim my actual physical spot whenever I feel like it".

Telling someone to save you a place on line is saying "I am getting on line now, and I will claim my actual physical spot whenever I feel like it".

The ONLY logical response IMO to saying one is ok and the other isn't is to argue that Disney allows one, but not the other.

Except Disney's policy on one is less than clear (unlike other parks like Cedar Point or Six Flags where it is crystal clear), and in any event it sidesteps the issue altogether, because you are saying one is "rude" and the other you obviously have no problem with.

Hopefully everything will move to 100% virtual queueing and everyone will be happy!

I'll give you most of this argument - but I think a part of holding a place in line being "rude" is that you have to shove by people that are already in line to reach your spot. I will agree that Disney is much too lax over what I would consider "line jumping" and I can see where you can easily argue that if I am in favor of one I should be in favor of the other. But, if everyone did really hold places in line the resulting line cutting would turn into total chaos. So, if I'm a hypocrite for that, than so be it.

 

[MikeandReneePlus5]

Getting a fastpass and using it within the "window" is saying "I am getting on line now, but I will claim my actual physical spot whenever the printed time says to".

So, if I want to go back LATER than that (not earlier,) who is being damaged?

There were several posts in and around yours that indicate people who do get damaged, but even if all that is refutable based on how the system works the point remains: it is a Disney sanctioned way of reserving space on 5 rides at the same time without having to be there.

And many are a-ok with that, but will scream bloody murder is someone tries to claim space was saved for them on an actual queue.

I GET that it is disney's policy. I am 100% down with it. Just pointing out the hypocrisy in people's thinking. And when challenged they just say "well Disney says it's ok"

 

[wcpamotm]

There's been plenty of long and quite angry threads about using late FP - but the point I always make is...it's in Disney's rules to allow them to be used late...read the BACK of the FP if you don't beleive it. It basically says 'You cannot use it early, and we prefer that you use it in the window" but doesn't say you cannot use it late.

Specifically, it says:

"Please enter the FASTPASS (tm) entrance at the attraction between the times noted on the other side.

Cannot accept early arrivals. Valid only on date printed."

 

[Max Webster]

We went to Disney World with one of my friends who is a DVC member. He broke out his wallet and showed me fast passes to almost every fast pass ride in the parks. He keeps them from previous trips, and they never look.

Hopefully your gathering doesn't turn into that type of hoarding.

I smell BS with this post. Trust me CMs look.

 

[MikeandReneePlus5]

I'll give you most of this argument - but I think a part of holding a place in line being "rude" is that you have to shove by people that are already in line to reach your spot. I will agree that Disney is much too lax over what I would consider "line jumping" and I can see where you can easily argue that if I am in favor of one I should be in favor of the other. But, if everyone did really hold places in line the resulting line cutting would turn into total chaos. So, if I'm a hypocrite for that, than so be it.

This makes all the sense in the world to me..it really does...and I agree with you.

That's why I would like to see 100% virtual queuing.

 

[skier_pete]

Disney doesn't enforce the window close time (attractions like Soarin have been said to be exceptions), so in spite of my perceptions I'm counting on their judgement that it doesn't screw things up. But I wonder if that will continue to be the case as more people realize that they are not bound to a single hour? Perhaps Disney may decide in the future that they do need to limit late FP usage. If that happens, I can imagine the howls of protest and griping!

Myself, I would be perfectly fine if they enforced the rules - as long as they did it for everyone as they do now - though the problem is they would still have to make exceptions for ride break-downs. Let's say my return window for Space Mountain is 1 - 2 PM, and i arrive at 1:30 PM, and the ride is down. Do I have to wait in line until it's back up to use my FP? Do I have to return by 2 PM and if it's not up is my pass valid? Do they hand me a new FP? But if the new FP isn't good until 8 PM and I'm leaving the park at 5 PM, is that fair? Honestly, I think THAT is probably what started them allowing the use of late FP. It was easier to allow them late usage than to deal with these situations in a fair manner. I think the majority of people don't know this secret, though I also think the % keeps getting bigger and bigger, but I would still bet it is less than 20 % of the park population.

However, I also notice the crowds for FP returns ebb and flow a lot, we've gotten in a FP line where there was a 20 minute wait, and by the time we got off the ride, there was no-one in the FP line, and we've seen the opposite as well. So, it's hard to qualify a large line as caused by late pass-holders.

 

[mikat]

Myself, I would be perfectly fine if they enforced the rules - as long as they did it for everyone as they do now - though the problem is they would still have to make exceptions for ride break-downs. Let's say my return window for Space Mountain is 1 - 2 PM, and i arrive at 1:30 PM, and the ride is down. Do I have to wait in line until it's back up to use my FP?

Or what if your FP is the same time as your ADR at Crystal Palace? Choose - Space Mountain or lunch?

 

[Robo]

I also notice the crowds for FP returns ebb and flow a lot, we've gotten in a FP line where there was a 20 minute wait, and by the time we got off the ride, there was no-one in the FP line, and we've seen the opposite as well. So, it's hard to qualify a large line as caused by late pass-holders.

Long standby waits are caused by... lots of guests standing in the Standby Line.

Long FP waits are caused by... lots of guests standing in the Standby Line.

(Just look at Dumbo, Teacups, Tomorrowland Speedway... no "late FP's" holding things up there.)

The CM who "combines" the FP holders and the standby guests can make all the difference in how long one line waits compared to the other.
It's her/his judgement call at the time.

Same goes for the combining of the Single Rider Lines.

 

[wcpamotm]

Myself, I would be perfectly fine if they enforced the rules - as long as they did it for everyone as they do now - though the problem is they would still have to make exceptions for ride break-downs. Let's say my return window for Space Mountain is 1 - 2 PM, and i arrive at 1:30 PM, and the ride is down. Do I have to wait in line until it's back up to use my FP? Do I have to return by 2 PM and if it's not up is my pass valid? Do they hand me a new FP? But if the new FP isn't good until 8 PM and I'm leaving the park at 5 PM, is that fair? Honestly, I think THAT is probably what started them allowing the use of late FP. It was easier to allow them late usage than to deal with these situations in a fair manner. I think the majority of people don't know this secret, though I also think the % keeps getting bigger and bigger, but I would still bet it is less than 20 % of the park population.

However, I also notice the crowds for FP returns ebb and flow a lot, we've gotten in a FP line where there was a 20 minute wait, and by the time we got off the ride, there was no-one in the FP line, and we've seen the opposite as well. So, it's hard to qualify a large line as caused by late pass-holders.

I considered this after posting and so am inclined to agree with you here. Now, without knowing operational particulars, I would think the solution for ride breakdowns during FP windows might be the same as when Splash Mountain broke down with us on it - a FP specifically good for the rest of the day.

This subject fascinates me - I was a Math Science major in college (which subject included queueing theory) and I'd love to read about more of the technical details.

To the PP who asked about conflicts between ADRs and return times, the solution would be simple: look at the return time before obtaining the FP.

 

[mikat]

To the PP who asked about conflicts between ADRs and return times, the solution would be simple: look at the return time before obtaining the FP.

Agreed, but can you imagine the scene - people waiting around at FP boxes for the "right" FP return time that doesn't conflict with their ADRs? That could get really messy as well.

This subject fascinates me - I was a Math Science major in college (which subject included queueing theory) and I'd love to read about more of the technical details.

Have your listened to the two-part Betamouse podcast that Henry and Len did on the algorithms involved in touring plans? It's the classic Traveling Salesman problem with time dependency thrown in for good measure.

http://betamouse.net/science-touring-plans-part-one/
http://betamouse.net/science-touring-plans-part-two/

Really fun math (at least, in my nerdy opinion). Just thought you might be interested based on your comment.

 

[vicki_c]

Vicki, you helped me out so much with questions before my first trip to the World, I guess I learned from the best! We weren't being commando at all either.

Thanks for the vote of confidence! Glad I was helpful to someone!

 

[wcpamotm]

Agreed, but can you imagine the scene - people waiting around at FP boxes for the "right" FP return time that doesn't conflict with their ADRs? That could get really messy as well.

The return clocks at most FP attractions don't move so fast that you'd be afraid to leave it for 15-20 minutes or so. In any event, I'd expect that it wouldn't be a whole lot worse than what happens sometimes at attraction entrances when a cluster of people gather waiting for their FP window to open.

Have your listened to the two-part Betamouse podcast that Henry and Len did on the algorithms involved in touring plans? It's the classic Traveling Salesman problem with time dependency thrown in for good measure.

http://betamouse.net/science-touring-plans-part-one/
http://betamouse.net/science-touring-plans-part-two/

Really fun math (at least, in my nerdy opinion). Just thought you might be interested based on your comment.

Thanks, I will check them out!