GASP! On check in I was advised by a CM to...

[jbbt]

It amazes me that you assume because a CM said it it is true.

I understand your point. I am not naive enough to believe that one CM knows everything, but we're not talking about just one CM.

 

[HalfDozen]

I may just upgrade my oldest's to an adult (junior) ticket and get her the dining plan as an adult. She'd be bored out of her mind eating "her choice between pb&J or Mac&cheese" at most of the CS places. (She's 9)

 

[miller2470]

BTW, called again today... I was told by DVC MS & WDW Dining & Travel that we cannot purchase the adult plan for our DS either curiouser & curiouser.

I am trying to make sure that I understand what you are saying...does this mean that we cannot upgrade (pay the adult price) for our daughter who is almost 10, so that she can order off of the regular menu. She likes more than just chicken, chicken and chicken. I was planning on paying the additional amount at checkin so that she wont feel like she cannot choose what she wants to eat. When we go out to eat at home, she generally orders off of the adult menu since the kids menus are so limited.

Another question that I have...how have they changed the snack credits. Oh, and since when are smoothies, bakery items and dole whips allowable as snack credits. If so, what bakery items? It would be great to be able to use the snack credit as breakfast since we dont usually eat large breakfasts anyways.

 

[HalfDozen]

I am trying to make sure that I understand what you are saying...does this mean that we cannot upgrade (pay the adult price) for our daughter who is almost 10, so that she can order off of the regular menu.

Depends - are you on the free dining promotion? It is my understanding that in order to have our daughter (who is also 9) on the adult dining plan (for the free promotion) we have to also pay for her as a junior in admission. I was told this is a difference of about $10 a day - SO worth it for her, in my opinion. Otherwise, if you're just paying out of pocket for dining, I don't think it would matter if her admission ticket said she was under 10 - but the may make you upgrade to the junior admission in this situation as well. However, the difference between mac & cheese and steak & lobster is definitely worth it.

Another question that I have...how have they changed the snack credits.

There are a gazillion threads going on right now in this forum about the snacks. Basically, Disney changed it to include many other items - not meal items, but sides and snacks. So it's no longer just popcicles/mickey bars/fruit/drinks. You can actually get food that's substantial enough for a quick breakfast.

Oh, and since when are smoothies, bakery items and dole whips allowable as snack credits. If so, what bakery items? It would be great to be able to use the snack credit as breakfast since we dont usually eat large breakfasts anyways.

Not sure "since when" - recently. They are transitioning the park to include "DDP" logos on items that are included as "snacks" now. Many of the items at the Main Street Bakery are included, as are several resort counter service places and shops. The basic mentality of the DISers is that you will know when you get there - and it's hard to speculate - just look for the logo. (think muffins, french toast loaf, croissants, etc) You can also get jars of salsa, bigger bags of chips, boxes of donuts, etc. at some of the resort shops. Even the list that they give you won't have everything on it. The general idea is that it has to be less than $4 and a snack (no getting egg and cheese sandwiches or quiche). But we plan to use that for breakfasts.

 

[pinchy]

my whole morality is based on not hurting others... I can't work out who would be getting hurt by some families using their kid credits on adults... I also think people are right that if disney thought this loophole they would just close it. They have the power to do so.

I can't benefit out of the loophole but I have absolutely no problem with other people who do.

Disney might close the loophole at any time... but its never not in their power to do it.

 

[MrShiny]

What I don't understand here is that folks keep assuming that Disney cares if you use "child" credits for "adult" meals when no where, in no form under the current plan has that been either implied nor enforced.

Don't slap down people for assuming what a CM told them was OK, while at the same time using your own assumption that it is not.

Until it is made clear by Disney itself to the contrary, it is perfectly alright, moral and decent to use DDP credits to your own best financial advantage, IMHO.

All it means for me is that I have more money to spend on Disney stuff.

 

[Sammie]

At this point I could care less what anyone does with these credits. Actually if people eat this much food while trying to vacation and ride the rides, indigestion is probably going to be the payback. And as someone said if this CM is encouraging you to spend OOP for meals that you have already covered with the Plan, you are not the winner in this situation. If one is not careful with the dining plan you might be surprised that you are paying more than you think.

The part that really annoys me is those that accuse some of knowing more than Disney and yet they themselves know for sure that Disney does not care about this. Just because a CM at Pop Century shared this and again, this is the accounting of one person this does not make that CM a spokesperson for the Disney Dining program.

I emailed Disney and the reply I got was No, you can not do this. To me that is the official policy.

Pedler has the best grasp of the situation. It is a large corporation with lots of overseas visitors. Once the program goes out to all these agencies world wide, due to legal issues they can't just up and change things over night. There are also implimentation issues.

Also as Pedler has said, even if they wish people would not use the plan this way, the cure might be worse than the illness.

 

[bicker]

I do have to say that if a CM encouraged me to use the plan in a particular way, and the dining establishment permitted it, I'd assume it was ok and I'd probably do it.

I agree. The problem occurs when other guests rely on what a CM encouraged another guest to do. The CMs are not that consistent. That's why I always ask, and then do whatever that CM tells me, unless I have written confirmation that the CM is mistaken, in which case I ask to speak to a manager.

Honestly, I don't understand why people CARE so much what other people do

I can't work out who would be getting hurt by some families using their kid credits on adults...

Generally, the concern is that abuse of an offering generally leads the company to radically change the offering, to the detriment of all. There is another thread on the DIS that lists a large number of offerings that Disney has had to either radically change, curtail, or completely eliminate in response to the way some guests were interacting with the offering. So the concern you see people expressing is, at least in part, a concern about how "what other people do" will affect the value of what everyone is offered next year.

There are a gazillion threads going on right now in this forum about the snacks. Basically, Disney changed it to include many other items - not meal items, but sides and snacks. So it's no longer just popcicles/mickey bars/fruit/drinks.

What is interesting is that one of the first questions someone asked is whether an egg sandwich counts as a snack.

 

[keishashadow]

To further explain:

I checked w/DVC MS as to our stay in June. We don't have to "pkg" DP, just add it on to our stay on points....was told we cannot pay for DS as an adult, it's based on age(?)

Called CRO for Oct. res (when we will be staying @ CR a few nights). It would be a pkg w/min. MYW tix purchase requirement but, again I was told my son would be charged as a child.

Perhaps I should fib about his age & "upgrade" him to WDW adult-hood, i.e. 10!

No one mentioned a junior price to me, is it less than full adult cost?

I am trying to make sure that I understand what you are saying...does this mean that we cannot upgrade (pay the adult price) for our daughter who is almost 10, so that she can order off of the regular menu.

Depends - are you on the free dining promotion? It is my understanding that in order to have our daughter (who is also 9) on the adult dining plan (for the free promotion) we have to also pay for her as a junior in admission. I was told this is a difference of about $10 a day - SO worth it for her, in my opinion. Otherwise, if you're just paying out of pocket for dining, I don't think it would matter if her admission ticket said she was under 10 - but the may make you upgrade to the junior admission in this situation as well. However, the difference between mac & cheese and steak & lobster is definitely worth it.


There are a gazillion threads going on right now in this forum about the snacks. Basically, Disney changed it to include many other items - not meal items, but sides and snacks. So it's no longer just popcicles/mickey bars/fruit/drinks. You can actually get food that's substantial enough for a quick breakfast.



Not sure "since when" - recently. They are transitioning the park to include "DDP" logos on items that are included as "snacks" now. Many of the items at the Main Street Bakery are included, as are several resort counter service places and shops. The basic mentality of the DISers is that you will know when you get there - and it's hard to speculate - just look for the logo. (think muffins, french toast loaf, croissants, etc) You can also get jars of salsa, bigger bags of chips, boxes of donuts, etc. at some of the resort shops. Even the list that they give you won't have everything on it. The general idea is that it has to be less than $4 and a snack (no getting egg and cheese sandwiches or quiche). But we plan to use that for breakfasts.

 

[disneymom3]

After reading through all these ddp credit threads, it amazes me that the Walt Disney Corporation has not emailed some of the people on the disboards and asked them to be the new CEO since they seem to know SO much more about how Disney should be run than anyone else!

Honestly, I don't understand why people CARE so much what other people do, especially people who are told by employees of WDW how to use these credits. Do they really think they understand the economical workings of the Disney Corporation better than the people who designed this plan?? Do they really think that all these things weren't thought of before they launched the plan?

Sometimes I wish I was an innocent tourist who hadn't spent so much time on these boards listening to every single rule/loophole/moral issue be picked to death, so that when a cm told me something, I would believe it and not hear echoes of all the DisWardens who think it might be wrong.

End of diatribe.

Beth

You are my new best friend! I love that the DIS board members are so clearly superior to the financial "idiots" who work for WDW and have thus far been unable to figure out or fix this "problem" Cracks me up. Heck I felt like I spent time vainly looking for a sign about refillable mugs at the Poly just to find out if what the CM told me was contradicted elsewhere by signage. (It wasn't it but IS printed on the mug itself.)

 

[HalfDozen]

Yeah - we're just going to fib about her birthday - I figure no one gets hurt in that situation, because we're actually paying more OOP. (We did that to get a magical gathering, too - said our toddler was 3, under the advice of a reservationist). They don't care if you go "UP" in grades, just prefer you'd not lie about your child still being a toddler if they're over 3. But I'm sure people do it, too.

I just checked and adult admission is apparently the same as junior admission. hmm - I guess I misunderstood what someone told me in regard to that one.

 

[keishashadow]

Thread is getting stranger by the minute , we try & take the high road & set an example for DS's by not telling lies or trying to "get over". Don't think I've ever mis-stated any of my kids ages to make them older & pay more but, I might just do this time to accommodate how we want to use the DP. Would have never thought of it...DH will think I'm completely insane when I fill him in on this one

Yeah - we're just going to fib about her birthday - I figure no one gets hurt in that situation, because we're actually paying more OOP. (We did that to get a magical gathering, too - said our toddler was 3, under the advice of a reservationist). They don't care if you go "UP" in grades, just prefer you'd not lie about your child still being a toddler if they're over 3. But I'm sure people do it, too.

I just checked and adult admission is apparently the same as junior admission. hmm - I guess I misunderstood what someone told me in regard to that one.

 

[Pedler]

And as someone said if this CM is encouraging you to spend OOP for meals that you have already covered with the Plan, you are not the winner in this situation. If one is not careful with the dining plan you might be surprised that you are paying more than you think.

I could probably come up with some examples that would show some out of pocket savings. Heck in our case I paid for 2 kids meals at $4.95 each plus tax and tip so roughly $15. We did this twice and then ate at Artist point, without the kids, to the tune of around $80-90. roughly a $50 -60 savings with a relatively mild use of the plan in this manner.

The part that really annoys me is those that accuse some of knowing more than Disney and yet they themselves know for sure that Disney does not care about this. Just because a CM at Pop Century shared this and again, this is the accounting of one person this does not make that CM a spokesperson for the Disney Dining program.

I emailed Disney and the reply I got was No, you can not do this. To me that is the official policy.

The problem here is that there is conflict between reports from CM's. Half the time I even wonder if they really know what they are talking about or ar just making it up as they go alone. Even the reply that you got mentions child and adult credits when there is not such designation so you have to wonder if that person really knew what was going on. There is more than enough amnunition for both views on this issue. I tend to rely and what they are actually doing and what the majority of the evidence says. The vast majority of evidence says this is OK and the implementation is pretty much universal in saying it is OK. The unfortunate thing is that people can't look beyond that. I understand why people have the view they have about this not being allowed, I disagree with it but I understand it. I don't understand why people have a problem with people that think otherwise.

Pedler has the best grasp of the situation. It is a large corporation with lots of overseas visitors. Once the program goes out to all these agencies world wide, due to legal issues they can't just up and change things over night. There are also implimentation issues.

Also as Pedler has said, even if they wish people would not use the plan this way, the cure might be worse than the illness.

True but Disney has now had almost a year since they last offered free dinning to make a change. Even setting aside the logistical question they could make a policy change just for US visitor. (I don't know about the international market but the US agreement essentially says that they can alter the terms of the plan any time they want.) Then just have that be the stated policy and wait for the enforcement mechanisms to catch up. If anyone gave them a hassel they could immediately give in but it would be a start. At the very least they could tell CM's to stop telling people to do this. Yet they show no indication of making any attempt to change the situation.

Last fall everyone was saying just wait and see, come January first big changes are comming. Some posted for sure they had talked to someone and said it was going to be imminent. That they would require all cards to used individually to pay for meals, that there would be adult / kids credits. Heck even the UG got into the rumor mill last August. It turns out none of that happened.

I agree these things take time but if by the end of this year they haven't made any type of effort towards change then I have to think that this is an allowable Disney policy and not just some loophole. The question is that if at that point in time no change is made will the naysayers come to accept the plan the way it is implimented or not?

 

[GoodFairies]

To the person who asked "what are you spending your credits on" - just an example here. (Not our plans, necessarily, but just wanted to show how it can go quickly).

Say, you're a family of 4 - two adults, two kids - staying for 5 nights, 6 days.
You start the week with:
20 TS credits
20 CS credits
20 snack credits

You check in early on Saturday, and hit the parks. For lunch you have CS. That's 4 off that list, leaving 16.
Dinner, you want to start the vacation off with your family's favorite HDD dinner show, so that's 8 credits from your TS bank - leaving 12.

Sunday, you use your snack credits for some pastries at the MS Bakery - Spending 4, that leaves 16. For lunch, you decide to hit a resort pool and eat at their CS cafeteria type place. That's 4 more CS - leaving 12. Dinner is at Wolfgang Puck Cafe, and you opt to pay OOP for the kids. That uses 2 more TS credits, leaving 10.

Monday you visit Animal Kingdom. You eat at Tusker House for breakfast and use another 4 CS credits (because the portions are small for breakfast and the kids insist on having Mickey Waffles). Then, later that afternoon the kids are hungry but it's hot. So you just get two rib/chicken combos from Flame Tree and share - 2 more CS credits gone. 6 CS credits left. Dinner is at Ohana, and you pay (just pretend here) 2 adult credits and OOP for the kids again. That leaves 8 TS.

Tuesday morning you have to do Chef Mickey's for breakfast. Another 2 TS credits, leaving 6TS. You're stuffed from breakfast and grab "snacks" for lunch - leaving 12 snacks. Dinner everyone is hungry once again, but you've used your TS for the day at Chef Mickey's, so you decide to go with a CS place. Cosmic Ray's - again, you share to conserve and the combos are big, so you use 2 adult credits and have 4 CS left.

Wednesday you get Kona Cafe early in the morning, since it's you last day and you cannot survive if you go home without having Tonga Toast in your diet one time, and pay for the kids OOP. 2 TS down. Lunch is Tangierine Cafe, where you can share - so you have 2 CS credits left. Dinner is Le Cellier - you pay adults with 2 TS Credits, and kids OOP, leaving 2 TS credits.

Thursday is your day to return home, but your flight is the last one out. You have to meet the ME bus by 6, so you know an early dinner is in order. You get counter service for breakfast - using the last two credits - at the ABC Commissary. You are starving from only having half of a mickey waffle for breakfast, and you all decide to eat Mama Melrose's at 11:00. You pay OOP for the kids. Your TS are gone.

Bear in mind there are still some snack credits and I assume you would have gotten some Mickey Bars or smoothies or goodness knows what else in the week.

oOo oOo oOo oOo oOo oOo oOo oOo oOo oOo oOo oOo

OR - try this scenario - using just the table service credits "ethically" and having just one signature dinner:

Saturday - check in early, CS for lunch (16 CS left)
Have your first Mickey Bar on Main Street USA X4 (16 Snack Credits left)
HDD for dinner X 8 credits (12 TS left)

Sunday - Bakery for breakfast (4 pastries/snacks - 12 left)
CS at Resort pool for lunch (12 CS left)
Kids want ice cream by the pool X4 snack credits (12 left)
Dinner at WPC X 4 credits (8TS left)

Monday - Early Entry, Tusker House breakfast X4 CS (4 CS left)
Flame Tree BBQ for lunch X 4 CS (4 CS left)
Hot day, at AK no less, you get smoothies while watching the jungle parade X4 (8 Snack credits left)
Dinner at Ohana X 4 TS credits (4TS left)

Tuesday - Chef Mickey's for breakfast X4 (0 TS left)
Snacks for lunch X4 (4 Snacks left)
Cosmic Ray's dinner X4 CS (0 CS left)
Dole Whip Floats on Main Street during SpectroMagic Parade X4 SCs (0 left)

Wednesday - you are out of all your credits and you have to pay OOP for all your meals. Even if you've skipped the HDD and did a regular 1 credit meal, you have 4 credits on this day for your entire day. If you shared a bigger lunch at CS places, you might have 2 of these to share, too. You are out of snacks as well, so you eat granola bars in the hotel room for breakfast.

Thursday, you take the last flight out, but you spend all day in the park. Again, by now you are certainly out of meals and you have to pay OOP for breakfast and lunch, and perhaps dinner at the airport.


Now - of course, it can be done, and I'm sure lots of people budget their TS and CS credits so that they have enough for the whole trip. This is just one scenario where you aren't necessarily eating signature meals but would still run out of meal options before your last day at the park.

So okay, the plan equals the number of nights rather than the number of days. Your scenarios are set up to show what a family would do if they arrived very early on day one and stayed very late on the last day. In reality, this probably doesn't happen very often. In your first scenario, you are still paying for A LOT of meals OOP. After paying for the dining plan, that doesn't seem like such a deal to me.

To me, it just looks like people are making the DDP much more convoluted than it really is.

It seems like one snack, one CS, and one TS is more than enough to fill a person up for each day. I could see OOP costs in addition to it for drinks, but that's about it, and then maybe for the extraordinary circumstances of having an extra full day without the DP (i.e., day 1 or last day), which could easily be fixed by sharing. It just seems like SO much food when using the plan straightforwardly (disregarding the flexibility aspect) without trying to "maximize" it (or whatever you want to call it). Of course creative use of the dining plan will come into play if the family wants to dine at one or more signature meals (as I stated in my previous post).

 

[BuzzPrincessMom]

Okay I will admit I have finally broken down and created a spreadsheet to keep track of my dining plan for DH,DD,DS and myself. I have ADRs and making sure I "use" everything given to me on dining plan. I can't imagine taking the time to try to think of more TS meals by using the kids credits and paying OOP for their meals. This is a vacation. We are there to enjoy ourselves. If I put in more TS meals it will take away from the parks. What am I there for eating or making memories.
This conversation blows my mind. I think I have reached the pre planning saturation point. I need to take a break from this board.

 

[Pedler]

It seems like one snack, one CS, and one TS is more than enough to fill a person up for each day. I could see OOP costs in addition to it for drinks, but that's about it, and then maybe for the extraordinary circumstances of having an extra full day without the DP (i.e., day 1 or last day), which could easily be fixed by sharing. It just seems like SO much food when using the plan straightforwardly (disregarding the flexibility aspect) without trying to "maximize" it (or whatever you want to call it). Of course creative use of the dining plan will come into play if the family wants to dine at one or more signature meals (as I stated in my previous post).

That all depends on who you are, where you eat and what you eat. For us we did stretch 7 nights to 8 TS meals and did not arrive early or leave late. We did have a 8:10 breakfast at CP on one day and a dinner at CRT that same day. We were not glutons but had no problem eating two TS meals that day. Then on another day without the kids we went to Artist Point for dinner, definitely not a belly buster restaurant. By paying for 4 kids meals OOP for a total of roughly $30 we ended up with 4 extra TS credits that were used for Artist Point. Our savings were roughly $50-60. We would have done those meals anyway but by paying for the kids meals at Alfredos and CRT (back when dinner was reasonable) we were able to save some money and we didn't go crazy with it.

 

[Pedler]

Okay I will admit I have finally broken down and created a spreadsheet to keep track of my dining plan for DH,DD,DS and myself. I have ADRs and making sure I "use" everything given to me on dining plan. I can't imagine taking the time to try to think of more TS meals by using the kids credits and paying OOP for their meals. This is a vacation. We are there to enjoy ourselves. If I put in more TS meals it will take away from the parks. What am I there for eating or making memories.
This conversation blows my mind. I think I have reached the pre planning saturation point. I need to take a break from this board.

Just keep in mind that while there are poeple who think the dinning plan is too much food there are also people for whom dinning is a part of the experience and enjoy signature restuarants or more than one TS meal a day. I for one don't find anything to be wrong with that.

You don't need to go crazy to figure out your savings or lack there of with the dinning plan. If you are inclined to make ADR's just make whatever plans you would as if money wasn't an object. If its just a one to one ratio with TS meals planned vs. TS credits then no worries. If however you want to do more TS meals than nights planned you have a few options. First you could just use TS meal credits until they are gone and pay for the remainder OOP. Of course depending upon how you schedule your meals you could end up paying OOP for the most expensive ones at the end. Second you could get a feel for what ones are least expensive and pay for those OOP and use the TS credits for the more expensive meals. Third you could contribute to the end of western civilization as we know it and pay for some kids meals OOP to cover the extra TS meals.

No one is forceing anyone to do anything nor do I find anything wrong with any of the above approaches. I don't have a problem with people touring WDW in ways that I personally wouldn't do. For example I wouldn't go the breakfast at CRT, or probably eat there again at the current rates but I don't question why other people do it. They obviously value it quite a bit and if that is what works for them then they should go for it.

 

[Amyg]

I've posted many times my exper w/plan when it was 1st introduced & we were verbally instructed on its usage (no brochures @ the time), wherein the credits were separated for A & C. At the very least it's now being used to great advantage by many parents of young children.

Just curious though...my son is on his last year as a "child" on the DP. He has adult tastes & in the past either I got stuck eating his child's meal & he mine or we used it as an appetizer & paid OOP for a "real" meal.

I know it's oh so morally wrong but, any reason he couldn't order off the adult menu if all credits are pooled? Will it be indicated on resort card...unless we were doing EMH, don't typically carry son's card around anyway since we have AP's?

If all credits are pooled and there is no distinction between child and adult, I would think he could easily order off the adult menu since I'm sure the CM's won't be asking for his birth certificate to prove his age.

This all boils down to each person's perception of the "rules". It seems pretty loose if there's a "loophole".

 

[mking624]

Generally, the concern is that abuse of an offering generally leads the company to radically change the offering, to the detriment of all. There is another thread on the DIS that lists a large number of offerings that Disney has had to either radically change, curtail, or completely eliminate in response to the way some guests were interacting with the offering. So the concern you see people expressing is, at least in part, a concern about how "what other people do" will affect the value of what everyone is offered next year.

I think this may be the first time I agree with you, bicker.
But I do agree. It's clear that there's a reason why Disney has different prices between a child and an adult, making the impossibility (at the moment) to distinguish between the two a loophole. As more and more people take advantage of that (and depending on members' tolerance of the word..."abusing" it is better fitting), it can lead them to make drastic changes in order to curtail what is going on.

 

[beattyfamily]

If all credits are pooled and there is no distinction between child and adult, I would think he could easily order off the adult menu since I'm sure the CM's won't be asking for his birth certificate to prove his age.

This all boils down to each person's perception of the "rules". It seems pretty loose if there's a "loophole".

Now this is really pushing the 'loophole', IMHO.