Gap, Old Navy censor 'Christmas,'

[chobie]

So, boycott the retailers already. I'm sure it will be as successful as the boycott of WDW by the Southern Baptists because of Gay Days.

 

[oxfordcircus]

Episcopalians celebrate advent, but I think Episcopalianism is not that far from Catholicism. The church that I attend on Christmas Eve and Easter is non-denominational Christian and does light Advent candles.

I think Methodists do too since they are a splinter. Anyone who has a liturgical calendar does too, like a Baptist church I attended at one time.

 

[Fitswimmer]

Actually, it seems that the boycott they used on Walmart last year did work, or at least they made enough noise about it to get a change. There was an article in the NYTimes around October that said Walmart changed their policy for this season and would no longer prohibit their employees from using the "C" word and would use the "C" word in their signage and advertising.

 

[Jrsy Boy]

Here's another question-do non-believers celebrate Easter like they do Christmas?

Just a guess, since I'm not considered a non-believer, but I doubt that everyone who is buying chocolate bunnies and coloring eggs and filling baskets with plastic grass is ruminating on the "reason for the season."

 

[LuvDuke]

I know that it was mentioned at my Dad's Baptist church when I was a kid, but they didn't make a big deal out of it.

Here's another question-do non-believers celebrate Easter like they do Christmas? There is a huge secular component to Christmas and many celebrate Yule, which doesn't have anything to do with Jesus. Is there a comparable Spring celebration? The commercialism hasn't reached the same proportions for the Easter season, so it doesn't seem to inspire much outrage on either side.

I think you're making an error if, as it seems to me, you're separating the controversy over Christmas into the categories of believers and non-believers.

I'm a believer, but I also believe the "war on Christmas" is a manufactured controversy to keep the conservatives roused and ready to do battle. "Happy Holidays", to me, is just as valid a greeting as "Merry Christmas". It doesn't take away from the meaning of Christmas.

For me, it's no different with Easter. I understand, and to some degree, accept the religious significance of Easter. But, it's also not solely a religious holilday. It's a time for gathering of family and friends and good food, etc.

I think you'll find many believers who don't find Happy Holidays offensive, and frankly, are starting to see the "war on Christmas" as another yearly event like April Fools Day.

 

[yeartolate]

You know that has to be one of my worst typing errors ever. Sorry, I meant JESUS. Someone will probably read this thread though and name their baby Jeason.

Although Jeason is the reason for season has a fabulous ring to it.

 

[pansmermaidzlagoon]

I know that it was mentioned at my Dad's Baptist church when I was a kid, but they didn't make a big deal out of it.

Here's another question-do non-believers celebrate Easter like they do Christmas? There is a huge secular component to Christmas and many celebrate Yule, which doesn't have anything to do with Jesus. Is there a comparable Spring celebration? The commercialism hasn't reached the same proportions for the Easter season, so it doesn't seem to inspire much outrage on either side.

http://www.aznewage.com/easter.htm (warning: don't go here if you are easily offended - there are pagan images)

Easter has its Pagan origin as well. - hope that is what you meant iin your question...

Our family: Easter bunny brings a basket and family still gets together for a family day ...dinner and all....MIL/FIL do the church thing but that is about it -for the christians and non-christians alike! I think some of the non-christians in our family are more observant of their "reason for the season" than the christians are of theirs - but that is just our family.

 

[Bob Slydell]

I think you're making an error if, as it seems to me, you're separating the controversy over Christmas into the categories of believers and non-believers.

I'm a believer, but I also believe the "war on Christmas" is a manufactured controversy to keep the conservatives roused and ready to do battle. "Happy Holidays", to me, is just as valid a greeting as "Merry Christmas". It doesn't take away from the meaning of Christmas.

For me, it's no different with Easter. I understand, and to some degree, accept the religious significance of Easter. But, it's also not solely a religious holilday. It's a time for gathering of family and friends and good food, etc.

I think you'll find many believers who don't find Happy Holidays offensive, and frankly, are starting to see the "war on Christmas" as another yearly event like April Fools Day.

Yep, what she said.

 

[Crankyshank]

Ah ok. I always lump Episcopalian in with Catholicism because it's Catholic lite Thanks for the insight on those with liturgical calendars celebrating advent.

So the war is on liturgical following Christians

About the Easter thing. My pagan friends do buy the bunnies and color the eggs because Easter is Eostre (I might have spelled that wrong) - and it's a fertility celebration.
I personally celebrate the more secular aspects of Easter than I do the religious.

 

[Fitswimmer]

http://www.aznewage.com/easter.htm (warning: don't go here if you are easily offended i- there are pagan images)

Easter has its Pagan origin as well. - hope that is what you meant iin your question...

Easter bunny brings a basket and family still gets together for a family day ...dinner and all....MIL/FIL do the church thing but that is about it -for the christians and non-christians alike!

I thought there was a pagan holiday in the Spring. I wasn't asking to be judgemental or anything, I was just curious because it seems like a LOT of people who don't have anything to do with religion celebrate Christmas as a secular holiday but I don't notice the same thing at Easter.

The tree in my living room with the lights and Pooh ornaments on it is a pagan image-but I still like it!

 

[pansmermaidzlagoon]

I thought there was a pagan holiday in the Spring. I wasn't asking to be judgemental or anything, I was just curious because it seems like a LOT of people who don't have anything to do with religion celebrate Christmas as a secular holiday but I don't notice the same thing at Easter.

The tree in my living room with the lights and Pooh ornaments on it is a pagan image-but I still like it!

I didn't take anything as judgemental....just didn't want to seem to be forcing the info on you if that wasn't what you were asking!!! Its all good!!! The warning wasn't for you - but anyone in general - some may not understand it and find it offensive.

 

[HeDiedxILive]

ya. I tried to make a funny, but that confused emoticon is too believable. As for the Catholics aren't Christians comment, I don't think that, but I can't speak for others.

OT, but I believe God is the only one who knows exactly who is getting into Heaven, so we shouldn't question it anyway. Not our place.

Do non Catholic Christians celebrate Advent?

I'm a non-Catholic believer and we do not celebrate Advent. I'm pentecostal.

Just a guess, since I'm not considered a non-believer, but I doubt that everyone who is buying chocolate bunnies and coloring eggs and filling baskets with plastic grass is ruminating on the "reason for the season."

This is exactly what I was trying to say about Christmas earlier. It is completely commercialized and not about Christ anyway. It shouldn't matter to those of us who celebrate Christmas for the birth of Jesus... at least, if our faith is truly the basic stronghold of our lives.



***I'd also like to throw out there, that I saw a commercial on TV for Gap last night, the one that says "Peace, Love, and Gap" and I am 85% sure that I heard the word "Christmas" very briefly toward then end of the little rap/song/thing. I will check it again though... Has anyone else seen this?

 

[pansmermaidzlagoon]

wouldn't surprise me: see my post above - it is not enough for the AFA that they do sometimes use "Christmas" - AFA's true mission is to get them to use it exclusively and to stop using "Holidays" at all...although they will lead their followers into believing that the retailer is banning it outright, if it will get them riled up and get them to call/sign petitions!!!!

 

[debster812]

AFA's true mission is to get them to use it exclusively and to stop using "Holidays" at all...although they will lead their followers into believing that the retailer is banning it outright, if it will get them riled up and get them to call/sign petitions!!!!

So the real irony here, is that the OP is up in arms about Gap/Old Navy, et al 'censoring' Christmas and is behind these AFA folks, when the AFA is, in essence trying to censor Happy Holidays, and ONLY allow the use of Christmas?

I know I'm late to this particular party, but this is the gist I'm getting here.

Debbie<------who is a practicing Catholic, working for a retailer who's CEO is Jewish, and just approved the paid outs for 6 stores to purchase new Christmas trees for store decor.

 

[pansmermaidzlagoon]

So the real irony here, is that the OP is up in arms about Gap/Old Navy, et al 'censoring' Christmas and is behind these AFA folks, when the AFA is, in essence trying to censor Happy Holidays, and ONLY allow the use of Christmas?

I know I'm late to this particular party, but this is the gist I'm getting here.

Debbie<------who is a practicing Catholic, working for a retailer who's CEO is Jewish, and just approved the paid outs for 6 stores to purchase new Christmas trees for store decor.

I think that it is it in a nutshell!!!!

(a pun perhaps...nutshell...nuts...AFA..????)

 

[LoraJ]

I grew up Presbyterian. Every year, we would get a set of advent candles and light a new one each week. We also had an advent calendar to count the days down. Is that what you mean by "celebrate"?

 

[oxfordcircus]

I also believe the "war on Christmas" is a manufactured controversy to keep the conservatives roused and ready to do battle.

I think you'll find many believers who don't find Happy Holidays offensive, and frankly, are starting to see the "war on Christmas" as another yearly event like April Fools Day.

Apparently it's also a fund raising tool. And it keeps readership up for those columnists who annually raise the issue.

 

[briar_rose_59]

Yes, certainly, that's why the parade is NAMED after a CHRISTIAN holiday, and features a character named after a CHRISTIAN SAINT, and is specifically held on the date of a major CHRISTIAN holiday.

Yep, the Disney Christmas parade has nothing to do with Christmas.

Yes, because the Christian "Saint Nicholas" really has so much to do with a chubby guy who lives at the North Pole with a bunch of reindeer... Honestly, I personally see very little in the way of religious references in that parade. Snowmen? Aly & AJ? Disney characters? Darn, if my church was full of that I might still be there

 

[Crankyshank]

I grew up Presbyterian. Every year, we would get a set of advent candles and light a new one each week. We also had an advent calendar to count the days down. Is that what you mean by "celebrate"?

Yup that's what I mean - the calendars and the wreath. The advent wreath is one of my favorite things about the season.

 

[pansmermaidzlagoon]

Yes, because the Christian "Saint Nicholas" really has so much to do with a chubby guy who lives at the North Pole with a bunch of reindeer... Honestly, I personally see very little in the way of religious references in that parade. Snowmen? Aly & AJ? Disney characters? Darn, if my church was full of that I might still be there

not to mention St, Nicholas may or may not have have actually existed - and if not, the origins of SC as well may actually be PAGAN:

Origin of Santa Claus:
4th century: There are two main, incompatible belief systems about St. Nicholas: Among Roman Catholics and conservative Protestants, there is a near universal belief that St. Nicholas of Bari once lived in Asia Minor, and died in either 345 or 352 CE. The Catholic Information Network speculates that he was probably born in Patara in the province of Myra in Asia Minor; this is apparently based on the belief that he later became bishop of Myra in Lycia (now Turkey). 8. He is alleged to have attended the first council of Nicea; however, his name does not appear on lists of attending bishops. He is honored as a Patron Saint in Austria, Belgium, Germany, Greece, Italy, Netherlands, Russia, Sicily, and Switzerland. 2 He is also considered the patron saint of children and sailors.

Many legends and miracles are attributed to him: When he was an infant, his mother only nursed him on Wednesdays and Fridays; he fasted the remaining days.
He halted a storm at sea in order to save three drowning sailors.
During his lifetime, he adored children and often threw gifts anonymously into the windows of their homes.
His father left him a fortune which he used to help poor children.
He grabbed the sword of an executioner to save the life of a political prisoner.
He brought back to life several children who had been killed.

******Some religious historians and experts in folklore believe that there is no valid evidence to indicate that St. Nicholas ever existed as a human. In fact, there are quite a few indicators that his life story was simply recycled from those of Pagan gods. Many other ancient Pagan gods and goddesses were similarly Christianized in the early centuries of the Church. His legends seems to have been mainly created out of myths attributed to the Greek God Poseidon, the Roman God Neptune, and the Teutonic God Hold Nickar. "In the popular imagination [of many Russians] he became the heir of Mikoula, the god of harvest, 'who will replace God, when God becomes too old.' " 8

When the church created the persona of St. Nicholas, they adopted Poseidon's title "the Sailor." They seem to have picked up his last name from Nickar. Various temples of Poseidon became shrines of St. Nicholas. 1 "In medieval England... in tiny sea ports we find the typical little chapel built on an eminence and looking out to sea." 8 St. Nicholas also adopted some of the qualities of "The Grandmother" or Befana from Italy. She was said to have filled children's stockings with gifts. Her shrine at Bari was also converted into a shrine to St. Nicholas.

The Christian church created a fictional life history for St. Nicholas. He was given the name Hagios Nikolaos (a.k.a. St. Nicholas of Myra).

10th century: The Christian author Metaphrastes collected and wrote many traditional legends about St. Nicholas.
11th century: The Roman Catholic Church teaches that during the Muslim invasion of Asia Minor, his remains were transferred to Bari in Italy, where he became known as Nicholas of Bari.
19th century: St. Nicholas was superseded in much of Europe by Christkindlein, the Christ child, who delivered gifts in secret to the children. He traveled with a dwarf-like helper called Pelznickel (a.k.a. Belsnickle) or with St. Nicholas-like figures. Eventually, all three were combined into the image that we now know as Santa Claus. "Christkindlein" became Kriss Kringle.

Before the communist revolution, large numbers of Russian Orthodox pilgrims came to Bari to visit St Nicholas' tomb. "He and St Andrew the apostle are the patrons of Russia." 8
Present day: Throughout many countries in Europe, St. Nicholas/Santa distributes gifts to the children on DEC-5, the eve of his feast day. In some countries, the gifts come at another time during Advent or on Christmas eve.
In Germany, Weinachtsmann (Christmas man) is a helper of the Christkind (Christ Child)
In France, Père Noël distributes the gifts.
In Russia, under the influence of communism, St. Nicolas evolved into the secular Father Frost. He distributes toys to children on New Year's Eve. 3
In England, Father Christmas delivers the presents. He is shown with holly, ivy or mistletoe.
In Scandinavian countries, the ancient Pagan Yule goat has transmuted into Joulupukki - similar to the American Santa.
In North America, Santa Claus rules, thanks to a certain brand of soda.
According to Roman Catholic church, his body is said to have not decomposed. In his shrine in Bari, Italy, it is believed by many pilgrims to exude a sweet smelling odor which cures medical disorders and illnesses.

I am curently researching La Befana...found this interesting....seems the kindly old witch actually came before Santa (and may be the origin of coal in the stocking).