Gabby Petito

[NotUrsula]

Not only does homicide not necessarily equal murder, but in a technical sense, "homicide" is not a *cause of death* It is a "manner of death". Forensics sometimes refers to 5 possible categories: homicide, suicide, accident, natural (meaning illness), or undetermined.

"Cause of death" is more usually in reference to the exact reason the person died, such as gunshot wound, sepsis, blunt force trauma, etc.

The point being, the entire argument could hinge on a matter of semantic confusion.

 

[JimMIA]

Not only does homicide not necessarily equal murder, but in a technical sense, "homicide" is not a *cause of death* It is a "manner of death". Forensics sometimes refers to 5 possible categories: homicide, suicide, accident, natural (meaning illness), or undetermined.

Correct, and it depends greatly on WHO is using the term.

The dictionary definition of "homicide" is indeed killed by another person. But in the criminal arena, "homicide" often means death by other than natural means.

Where I formerly worked, any death without an attending physician who was willing to sign a death certificate was initially categorized as a "homicide" and homicide detectives would respond to investigate. In many natural deaths, the patient simply had not seen a doctor recently and there was nobody who could sign a death certificate. Those cases were quickly disposed of and re-classified to natural following an autopsy.

Some other cases took many weeks, and were only classified after toxicology results were received and analyzed. And those cases could be suicides, accidental deaths, or murders depending on the specific facts in the case.

 

[TLSnell1981]

Gabby was in the elements for weeks. I doubt there is much physical evidence i.e. bruising, defensive wounds, etc. It's possible a gun shot wound or broken bones would be determinable. IDK..the whole situation is quite tragic.

 

[bsmcneil]

She was quick to call her mom, though, while she was still in the police car. I mean, if you REALLY think you're in danger and want out, all that other stuff doesn't matter. You leave your things behind. You go somewhere safe, period. You start over. She was 22. She didn't have any strings, really. I'm sure her 4 loving parents would have flown her home, no questions asked. Or they would have flown out there to get her, bring her home and make sure she is safe. Im guessing her 2 dads would have made sure Brian knew, in no uncertain terms, to stay away from their daughter. I can see how these situations can be complicated when the victim has no support system, maybe has kids in the mix, is financially dependent on their abuser, etc. But this girl COULD have told that cop "listen, he's abusing me, it's getting worse and I'm scared. Please help me." And they would have. It's just so sad to me to see women not ask for help when it's right there.

I can't begin to tell you how much I hate comments like this. As someone who grew up with a mother who lived in incredibly abusive situations and as someone who experienced intimate partner violence and only left once that partner ended up hitting our kid, it's absolutely not true that if you "really think you're in danger", nothing else matters and you leave. It's actually hard for me to imagine that there are people who legitimately believe this, given the copious amounts of research on what abuse does to the person being abused and/or any secondary victims. Like, read a blog or watch a youtube video or something.

 

[bsmcneil]

I lied to the police to cover for my abusers once. I was in 8th grade, sitting in the hospital, and being interviewed by the police about how I got my injuries. I knew if I told them the truth about what went on in my home that CPS would get involved. What I couldn’t be sure of was whether I would 100% be removed from the home immediately and permanently, or if there was a chance I would end up back in that house with my parents. If the latter happened, I knew my life and the future abuse would be so much worse for having involved the authorities and I was too scared to take that chance, so I lied and covered for my parents. It really doesn’t take that much imagination to figure out why a victim may not want to enrage their abuser even more.

Yep. My mother regularly hit me as a kid. I disclosed this to a teacher once and DSS (in North Carolina, CPS is called something different) got involved. My mother said to me, "if I find out you told someone, I will kill you." Did I lie to DSS when interviewed (in front of my mother, no less - a terrible mistake on their part)? Oh ---- yes. Similarly, it was unclear to me that if I told the truth, something would actually change and that's too much to risk.

 

[DLgal]

I can't begin to tell you how much I hate comments like this. As someone who grew up with a mother who lived in incredibly abusive situations (I've seen my stepfather put a gun to my mother's head more than once) and as someone who experienced intimate partner violence and only left once that partner ended up hitting our kid, it's absolutely not true that if you "really think you're in danger", nothing else matters and you leave. It's actually hard for me to imagine that there are people who legitimately believe this, given the copious amounts of research on what abuse does to the person being abused and/or any secondary victims. Like, read a blog or watch a youtube video or something.

My comments were specific to Gabby's situation. I was not making a blanket statement about every single victim of abuse. Gabby, specifically, seems to be well loved by her family. Look how devoted they became as soon as they realized she was missing. She felt comfortable reaching out to her mom during the traffic stop. She had an "out" and I am willing to guarantee you that if you ask any of her 4 parents right now "if Gabby had told you she was being abused and needed help getting away from Brian in that moment in Utah, would you have helped her?" Every single one of those 4 people would say "Yes. We would have done anything for her."

Gabby was not in a situation where she had no other options.

It sounds to me like you have a horrific past as a victim of domestic abuse and I am sorry to hear that. However, even you recognized that you did not want that life for your child and you left as soon as your partner hit your child. As a mother, you found the strength to leave when it meant your child was in danger.I'm sure that wasn't easy, but you did it.

 

[TipsyTraveler]

My comments were specific to Gabby's situation. I was not making a blanket statement about every single victim of abuse. Gabby, specifically, seems to be well loved by her family. Look how devoted they became as soon as they realized she was missing. She felt comfortable reaching out to her mom during the traffic stop. She had an "out" and I am willing to guarantee you that if you ask any of her 4 parents right now "if Gabby had told you she was being abused and needed help getting away from Brian in that moment in Utah, would you have helped her?" Every single one of those 4 people would say "Yes. We would have done anything for her."

Gabby was not in a situation where she had no other options.

It sounds to me like you have a horrific past as a victim of domestic abuse and I am sorry to hear that. However, even you recognized that you did not want that life for your child and you left as soon as your partner hit your child. As a mother, you found the strength to leave when it meant your child was in danger.I'm sure that wasn't easy, but you did it.

Of course Gabby had options. Unless they’re being chained in a basement, every victim of abuse has options for leaving. But that doesn’t mean taking advantage of those options will solve their problem without opening up a whole new set of problems. (Now I need a new place to live, a new job where he can’t find me, I’ll have to lock down all my social media and hope none of our mutual acquaintances give him info about where I am, I’ll lose a lot of my friends in this process.) Having options doesn’t ensure your safety — the most dangerous time for a victim is when they’re trying to leave and a restraining order, if you can get one, is only issued after the harassment, threats, and/or violence have begun and they do nothing to stop you from being killed if that’s your abuser’s goal. Having options doesn’t mean everyone will have the courage to take advantage of them, and plenty of people won’t even realize they should be looking for a way out because they don’t recognize their abuser as an abuser. Getting out of an abusive relationship is not as simple as “having options” and that’s what people are trying to get you to understand.

 

[JimMIA]

Well, we a horrible ending to the case we were following in Orlando. Police have found Miya Marcano's body. She disappeared a week ago yesterday. The prime suspect was found dead by suicide on Monday, so this is not unexpected but it's still hard to take.

Her apartment complex, where she went missing and was probably killed, is right behind the Chick-fil-A we go to when we visit our daughter at UCF -- and only about 2 miles from our DD's apartment.

https://www.local10.com/news/local/...es-provide-update-on-search-for-miya-marcano/

 

[rigs32]

Storage isn't really an issue these days with cloud storage or massive storage devices. However, there might be technical requirements (including automatic backups and security) that can't be met by just buying off the shelf storage drives that might make it more expensive than just buying commercial storage devices.

it’s the cost of storage that’s the issue. Where does the money come from? One arrest can produce multiple GBs of data. Multiply that by hundreds of calls for service each day.

 

[bcla]

it’s the cost of storage that’s the issue. Where does the money come from? One arrest can produce multiple GBs of data. Multiply that by hundreds of calls for service each day.

It's just another cost of doing business. What do you suppose they do with all their police dash cam video? At this point, store security cam footage doesn't have to be deleted, when previously they'd maybe have 8 hours of VHS tape cycled through and recorded over. Police don't really consider the cost of the storage being the critical factor. It's organizing it and finding it when needed.

https://endeavors.unc.edu/files_for_miles_body_cams_cause_big_data_problems/​

According to Kreft, storing video files is not the issue. “Data storage is easy to calculate,” Kreft says. “You can go online and enter in what your storage requirements are.” The bigger burden is keeping those files organized and easily searchable. The more files you have, the harder it is to locate one particular file.​

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“What most agencies are worried about are the intangible costs of maintaining the system. Those are much harder to quantify.”​

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Those tasks require additional IT staff, which not all police departments can finance during tight budget times. Both body cameras and dashboard cameras capture events that don’t go into police reports, like routine traffic stops. Those videos are considered “nonevidentiary.” At the Chapel Hill Police Department, a routine traffic stop video will be saved for 90 days. To help prevent data overload, Kreft suggests police departments create shorter retention periods for nonevidentiary videos. “I believe a month is probably sufficient, but every institution is going to define their needs differently,” Kreft says.​

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[NotUrsula]

On that dashcam data storage issue, I have a similar data storage conundrum at work, and cost is still a real issue, despite the generally declining cost of data storage. The cheapest kinds of cloud storage, which are fine for a personal account, really are not acceptable for something that is in chain of evidence; that kind of secure storage is much more expensive, and when you are dealing in petabytes, what at first appear to be managable per GB fees add up really fast. And when the money you are using to pay for it comes from nowhere but your tax revenue, it doesn't take long to hit the wall, budget-wise.

 

[Welsh_Dragon]

Well, we a horrible ending to the case we were following in Orlando. Police have found Miya Marcano's body. She disappeared a week ago yesterday. The prime suspect was found dead by suicide on Monday, so this is not unexpected but it's still hard to take.

Her apartment complex, where she went missing and was probably killed, is right behind the Chick-fil-A we go to when we visit our daughter at UCF -- and only about 2 miles from our DD's apartment.

https://www.local10.com/news/local/...es-provide-update-on-search-for-miya-marcano/

That is sad. Have you followed the Sarah Everard case in the U.K. press? An off duty police officer, used his warrant card to carry out a fake COVID stop on a young woman walking home in London and fake arrest. Handcuffed her, put her in a car, drove 80 miles then raped and murdered her and burned her body. Dumped her remains in a lake and in the following days took his children paddling in the same lake. He pleaded guilty and has just been given a full life sentence.

 

[DLgal]

Of course Gabby had options. Unless they’re being chained in a basement, every victim of abuse has options for leaving. But that doesn’t mean taking advantage of those options will solve their problem without opening up a whole new set of problems. (Now I need a new place to live, a new job where he can’t find me, I’ll have to lock down all my social media and hope none of our mutual acquaintances give him info about where I am, I’ll lose a lot of my friends in this process.) Having options doesn’t ensure your safety — the most dangerous time for a victim is when they’re trying to leave and a restraining order, if you can get one, is only issued after the harassment, threats, and/or violence have begun and they do nothing to stop you from being killed if that’s your abuser’s goal. Having options doesn’t mean everyone will have the courage to take advantage of them, and plenty of people won’t even realize they should be looking for a way out because they don’t recognize their abuser as an abuser. Getting out of an abusive relationship is not as simple as “having options” and that’s what people are trying to get you to understand.

I understand ALL of that. But it still means your options as an adult dealing with domestic abuse are either:

1. Stay with the abuser and probably end up being killed, or at the very least continue to be abused relentlessly.

2. Leave and deal with a small possibility that you may still be killed, but exponentially increase your likelihood of NOT being killed. Plus, deal with some logistical considerations.

It's a no brainer to me. Anyone who would stick with option #1 when option #2 is even a possibility is, as someone said earlier, making excuses.

There are plenty of resources available to help victims of domestic violence get safely out of their situations. Unfortunately, if people won't help themselves, not much else can be done.

 

[neverlandsky]

Getting out of an abusive relationship is not as simple as “having options” and that’s what people are trying to get you to understand.

Needs to be repeated. I would like to add that the victim blaming is so beyond hurtful. Abuse is not a black & white situation. Nothing in life ever is. Grace and kindness 100% needs to be extended to victims of abuse.

 

[DLgal]

Needs to be repeated. I would like to add that the victim blaming is so beyond hurtful. Abuse is not a black & white situation. Nothing in life ever is. Grace and kindness 100% needs to be extended to victims of abuse.

No one is victim blaming. Victim blaming would be saying that abuse victims deserve what they get and that they are responsible for the acts of violence committed against them. NO ONE here believes that. I certainly do not believe that. And I have never, nor will I ever treat an abuse victim with anything less than the utmost compassion and kindness. NO one deserves that life, and that is the point I feel like I'm trying to make. I want every victim to understand their worth, and know that they deserve better, they deserve more in life and they DON'T need to sit there and continue to take it. They can leave. And they should. And I'll help them if I can.

 

[neverlandsky]

No one is victim blaming. Victim blaming would be saying that abuse victims deserve what they get and that they are responsible for the acts of violence committed against them. NO ONE here believes that. I certainly do not believe that. And I have never, nor will I ever treat an abuse victim with anything less than the utmost compassion and kindness. NO one deserves that life, and that is the point I feel like I'm trying to make. I want every victim to understand their worth, and know that they deserve better, they deserve more in life and they DON'T need to sit there and continue to take it. They can leave. And they should. And I'll help them if I can.

Victim blaming occurs when the victim of a crime or any wrongful act is held entirely or partially at fault for the harm that befell them.

Gabby was not in a situation where she had no other options.

This unfortunately implies blame.

 

[JimMIA]

So...WHERE IS BRIAN?

 

[GreatLakes]

On the side discussion of storage, the cost isn't only the storage. It is the backup, the not cheap security software and audits to ensure it is properly protected, and many other side costs.

You also don't want to store the footage very long. The longer you store it the longer you have to reply to a subpoena for it. We have video storage retention rules, generally 90 days, and make sure it is deleted at 90 days and 1 second. You don't want to keep to much even if you can.

 

[lizbaby007]

So...WHERE IS BRIAN?

PTC GA

Not really, but someone took this photo earlier tonight in the town I live in and posted on a local FB group. Guy came out of the woods near a McDonalds and got super weird when he noticed her watching him. Hyperalert and giving off creepy vibes. Went back into the woods.

I mean it does look like him. If he is riding the rails N to the Appalachian trail, it's a possibility he'd come through here.

 

[TipsyTraveler]

PTC GA

Not really, but someone took this photo earlier tonight in the town I live in and posted on a local FB group. Guy came out of the woods near a McDonalds and got super weird when he noticed her watching him. Hyperalert and giving off creepy vibes. Went back into the woods.

I mean it does look like him. If he is riding the rails N to the Appalachian trail, it's a possibility he'd come through here.

View attachment 609642

Did he walk like a duck with hip dysplasia? If so, that’s him.