Funny headline about women's dressing room incident

[cteddiesgirl]

Indeed it wouldn't make sense to use the Ignore feature because of disagreement; it would be pretty boring if everyone knew and thought the same things. I think it only makes sense to use Ignore in case of offense (and generally folks don't personally attack people who they're agreeing with). YMMV.

I feel that's unfair, to the wife, to the ex-husband, and to the children.

An offense is just a very strong disagreement in my book. But then, even those that offend me in some way, I usually forgive, forget, and go on with my life.


How is is unfair? I don't know any man who wants to take his daughters clothes shopping.
My dad never did. He still doesn't. The only time we went shopping together was to buy my mom something and now for general and grocery shopping. None of my uncles or cousins or friends ever really did either.

The only time I can think of is in some sort of emergency where another woman isn't available on the spot. But in any case, no matter what, a grown man does not belong in a ladies dressing room.

 

[MerMom60_94]

An offense is just a very strong disagreement in my book. But then, even those that offend me in some way, I usually forgive, forget, and go on with my life.


How is is unfair? I don't know any man who wants to take his daughters clothes shopping.
My dad never did. He still doesn't. The only time we went shopping together was to buy my mom something and now for general and grocery shopping. None of my uncles or cousins or friends ever really did either.

The only time I can think of is in some sort of emergency where another woman isn't available on the spot. But in any case, no matter what, a grown man does not belong in a ladies dressing room.

You are correct that most men don't want to take their daughter(s) shopping. That doesn't mean there aren't occassions that he has to. I don't want to shop either. That doesn't get me totally off the hook. I have already provided a couple of situations where a father might have to take his daughter shopping. And what about a disabled woman who may need her husbands help? If she needs his help, she needs his help. It is one thing to say a man does not belong in the dressing area, but a whole other story to say he shouldn't even take his daughter shopping. I find your attitude very sexist and outdated. A man doesn't have to enter the actual changing area to take his daughter shopping and I don't buy into the outdated notion that this is "women's work".

 

[ZeitgeistDuck]

What, I'm going to be uncomfortable washing my hands next to a man??? I don't understand why some people get soooo worked up about such trivial things.

I don't understand why some people have a hard time reading signs. If it says "Womens dressing room" it means its for WOMEN. I don't understand why some people get sooo worked up about that. And yes, your ex should find a way to handle the situation without imposing on others- or, more logically, lets the girls go into a changing room together and then come out and show him stuff.

 

[bicker]

How is is unfair? I don't know any man who wants to take his daughters clothes shopping.

Hmmm... I guess we know different men. Remember, we're not talking about taking teenage girls shopping, but rather 7 year old girls.

And beyond that, sometimes it isn't a matter of what Dad wants, but rather what Dad is responsible for.

But in any case, no matter what, a grown man does not belong in a ladies dressing room.

I understand you'd prefer they not be there, but I think the point several of us have been trying to help you understand is that that doesn't mean that they don't belong there. The word "belong" has a connotation that goes beyond what someone might prefer to be the case.

 

[cteddiesgirl]

You are correct that most men don't want to take their daughter(s) shopping. That doesn't mean there aren't occassions that he has to. I don't want to shop either. That doesn't get me totally off the hook. I have already provided a couple of situations where a father might have to take his daughter shopping. And what about a disabled woman who may need her husbands help? If she needs his help, she needs his help. It is one thing to say a man does not belong in the dressing area, but a whole other story to say he shouldn't even take his daughter shopping. I find your attitude very sexist and outdated. A man doesn't have to enter the actual changing area to take his daughter shopping and I don't buy into the outdated notion that this is "women's work".

I never said that a man shouldn't go shopping. I have only said that he doesn't belong in a ladies dressing room. No matter what. If a woman needs help, he can get the attendent to help her. That's what they're there for.

I am not sexist and outdated and I never said shopping was "women's work". Please stop adding words that I never said.
I simply stated that the majority of men don't want to (and usually don't) go clothes shopping with their daughters and usually have no reason to. If a man feels he has to go into the dressing room, then he shouldn't be shopping without another female to help them or he needs to have the attendents help.

Hmmm... I guess we know different men. Remember, we're not talking about taking teenage girls shopping, but rather 7 year old girls.

And beyond that, sometimes it isn't a matter of what Dad wants, but rather what Dad is responsible for.

I understand you'd prefer they not be there, but I think the point several of us have been trying to help you understand is that that doesn't mean that they don't belong there. The word "belong" has a connotation that goes beyond what someone might prefer to be the case.

As stated by a pp, WOMENS dressing room does not mean sometimes men allowed. It is for females only. Meaning, that men don't belong in a women's dressing room. Just like women don't belong in a men's dressing room.
Dad's can be responsible all they want. The responsible thing to do is get another woman to help in the dressing room. The girls can come out an model for dad all they want.

When I was 7, I certainly didn't want my dad in the ladies dressing room. I would have been embarrassed not only for myself, but for others in the room too.

 

[NHdisneylover]

I also don't use the ignore feature. Like you, there are times when I'll completely disagree with someone. But other times, I'll find myself agreeing with the same person about another topic.

I d like to see opinions on every side

Take your daughters shopping yourself. I'm having a tough time believing that there are men in the world who take their 7 and 9 DDs clothes shopping. Even getting past that, does he actually believe he should be allowed in a woman's fitting room?

Why is this tough for you to understand? Dad's take care of their daughters all of the time. That sometimes includes shopping for clothing. I find it really odd that you think this is so unusual.

I believe that is considered assault.

Yep.

I never said that a man shouldn't go shopping. I have only said that he doesn't belong in a ladies dressing room. No matter what. If a woman needs help, he can get the attendent to help her. That's what they're there for.

I am not sexist and outdated and I never said shopping was "women's work". Please stop adding words that I never said.
I simply stated that the majority of men don't want to (and usually don't) go clothes shopping with their daughters and usually have no reason to. If a man feels he has to go into the dressing room, then he shouldn't be shopping without another female to help them or he needs to have the attendents help.




As stated by a pp, WOMENS dressing room does not mean sometimes men allowed. It is for females only. Meaning, that men don't belong in a women's dressing room. Just like women don't belong in a men's dressing room.
Dad's can be responsible all they want. The responsible thing to do is get another woman to help in the dressing room. The girls can come out an model for dad all they want.

When I was 7, I certainly didn't want my dad in the ladies dressing room. I would have been embarrassed not only for myself, but for others in the room too.

Their job is too get other sizes, etc--NOT to help little kids with bottons and zippers etc. In fact, in our increasing litigious society I think most stores would actively discourage such help being given even if the attendant had the time and the inclination to do so.

 

[bicker]

"Women's Dressing Room" means that it is where women go to try on clothing. Barring any other indications from the management, that's all it means. Men cannot try on clothes there; men cannot take off the clothing the came in wearing in order to try on items that they might want to buy.

 

[cteddiesgirl]

My 9 yo Goddaughter wouldn't even change with me in the room. Much less any man.

I'm sorry, when it comes to me, I do prefer not to have men in there. But when it comes to little girls, men do not belong in there.

I've been in too many dressing rooms where a tall woman can look over the top of the door very easily. Not to mention how well a man can do it.



According to some though, I should be welcome in the men's dressing room with my Godson. Bicker, please let me know where and when your next clothes shopping excursion is so I can make sure to be there in the dressing room with you, since you obviously don't mind.

 

[allison443]

I don't know any man who wants to take his daughters clothes shopping.
My dad never did. He still doesn't. The only time we went shopping together was to buy my mom something and now for general and grocery shopping. None of my uncles or cousins or friends ever really did either.

As a parent we sometimes/often have to do things we don't want to do. I have sat through many inane movies, gone to Chuck E. Cheese, etc. when I didn't want to. Everyone's situation is not like what you personally experienced.

My dh wouldn't come clothes shopping with me, but that doesn't mean I don't understand that some other husbands apparently do so.

I don't get what their wanting to be there or not has to do with the dressing room issue anyway.

 

[bicker]

According to some though, I should be welcome in the men's dressing room with my Godson.

Absolutely. I see mothers in the men's dressing room all the time. No one things twice about it. It's not like they're coming into other people's changing cells while they're occupied.

Bicker, please let me know where and when your next clothes shopping excursion is so I can make sure to be there in the dressing room with you, since you obviously don't mind.

Okay, I suppose if I remember. It's usually not something I plan in advance though. Why is it so important that you're there, though? It seems strange that you'd want to travel so far for this.

 

[FireDancer]

What kind of dressing room are you guys envisioning here? If we are talking about sports style changing rooms were everyone undresses and dresses in a big community area then no man should be in there even with their kids (IMO).

I, on the other hand, am thinking of a dressing room area where there are separate stalls with doors or curtains and then a hallway type area with seats and mirrors and the entire thing (stalls and hallway) is refereed to the dressing room.

In that situation I am thinking the father/husband either waits in the hall area or, in the case of young kids, is in their own separate stall. In either of those situation no one is changing in front of a man other then their daughter. They are changing in their own stall and coming out dressed. Even if they come out to get zipped up a naked back is no more naked then naked arms or legs, no "private parts".

In that situation the man isn't in the room you are changing, he is in an adjacent room (either the hallway or the stall). In that situation who cares, no one is sitting there watching you change?

It seems from so many posts here that people are talking about the first example while others are talking about the other.

 

[bicker]

What kind of dressing room are you guys envisioning here?

Every dressing room I've been in for the last few years is like this:

|--------------------------|
|     |     |     |        |
|     |     |     |        |
|     |     |     |        |
|~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~     < > |
|                      < > |
|                      < > |
|~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~         |
|     |     |     |        |
|     |     |     |        |
|     |     |     |        |
|---------------------

The angle-brackets are typically where there is a mirror of some sort. That's typically where, in the Men's Dressing Room, where the mothers hang out waiting to see what their sons (and perhaps husbands) look like in their chosen items, and in the Women's Dressing Room, where the fathers hang out waiting to see what their daughters (and perhaps wives) look like in their chosen items.

 

[MerMom60_94]

What kind of dressing room are you guys envisioning here? If we are talking about sports style changing rooms were everyone undresses and dresses in a big community area then no man should be in there even with their kids (IMO).

I, on the other hand, am thinking of a dressing room area where there are separate stalls with doors or curtains and then a hallway type area with seats and mirrors and the entire thing (stalls and hallway) is refereed to the dressing room.

In that situation I am thinking the father/husband either waits in the hall area or, in the case of young kids, is in their own separate stall. In either of those situation no one is changing in front of a man other then their daughter. They are changing in their own stall and coming out dressed. Even if they come out to get zipped up a naked back is no more naked then naked arms or legs, no "private parts".

In that situation the man isn't in the room you are changing, he is in an adjacent room (either the hallway or the stall). In that situation who cares, no one is sitting there watching you change?

It seems from so many posts here that people are talking about the first example while others are talking about the other.

These are the dressing rooms I am talking about. The man is going no further than the entry way and the female is stepping out of the dressing stall into the larger room and walking to the entry way to model what she is trying on.

 

[ZeitgeistDuck]

I think the type of dressing room really is the crux of the issue, IMO. If the dressing room is one of those opens-directly-to-the-store types, obviously it really doesn't matter where the dad hangs out.

If the dressing room is one like in Bicker's drawing, if it had doors with no or very small gaps, I - and I think many women- wouldn't really have an issue with a dad hanging out in the communal hallway.

If the dressing room has just curtains or doors with wider gaps, then I think the man has no business being in the woman's dressing room- no matter what his business is being in there (helping an adult woman, or child, etc.) Ultimately if the room is labeled "Woman's Dressing Room" there is reasonable expectation that the dressing area, incl. hallway and stalls, would be for women only. Just like the Woman's bathroom is for women, not men with young daughters.

Regardless, my rule of thumb is that we accommodate our own needs- we don't expect others to accommodate them. In other words in that situation I'd send my young daughter in to change by herself while I waited outside the dressing room or I'd find someone to shop with me. I'D be making the special accommodation for my situation, rather than expecting others to just suck it up.

 

[pilesoflaundry]

How is is unfair? I don't know any man who wants to take his daughters clothes shopping.
My dad never did. He still doesn't. The only time we went shopping together was to buy my mom something and now for general and grocery shopping. None of my uncles or cousins or friends ever really did either.

The only time I can think of is in some sort of emergency where another woman isn't available on the spot. But in any case, no matter what, a grown man does not belong in a ladies dressing room.

My husband loves to go shopping with us. I know he's a rare gem and no he's not gay He likes to be very involved with our daughters and give veto power on what they can and can't have. And he likes to keep me company and spoil us rotten.

He sits in the man chair outside the dressing room and tells me if something looks ok or not. My mom didn't ever help me with this stuff growing up. She often looks like she got dressed in the dark by a 4 year old with a patterns problem so I need all the help I can get!

Does he go inside no and in places that the dressing room is just a half door or a curtain he won't sit right outside or come too close to the door because of others. In general I agree for the comfort of others in those cases, a man should not be inside/close enough to look in.

 

[asta]

What kind of dressing room are you guys envisioning here? If we are talking about sports style changing rooms were everyone undresses and dresses in a big community area then no man should be in there even with their kids (IMO).

I, on the other hand, am thinking of a dressing room area where there are separate stalls with doors or curtains and then a hallway type area with seats and mirrors and the entire thing (stalls and hallway) is refereed to the dressing room.

In that situation I am thinking the father/husband either waits in the hall area or, in the case of young kids, is in their own separate stall. In either of those situation no one is changing in front of a man other then their daughter. They are changing in their own stall and coming out dressed. Even if they come out to get zipped up a naked back is no more naked then naked arms or legs, no "private parts".

In that situation the man isn't in the room you are changing, he is in an adjacent room (either the hallway or the stall). In that situation who cares, no one is sitting there watching you change?

It seems from so many posts here that people are talking about the first example while others are talking about the other.

Even in cases where dressing stalls are closed by curtain or door and there is an outside mirror - I personally do not want a male sitting back in that area. As I said before, sometimes you are in need of a clerk to look at a dress that is too small to zip so that she can order the proper size. At other times my daughter has tried on dresses that are practically see through and that is not obvious until you come out and look into a mirror with good lighting. In both of these cases, any male, teen or older, is not welcome in that area outside of the dressing room. Any man with a sense of decency should be able to understand that they shouldn't be sitting there. One of my daughters doesn't even change clothes in front of me. Males hanging out outside the stall are a problem and shouldn't be there.

And one other thing, if the dressing room is in a store that only sells women's clothes you shouldn't have to be told by sign or otherwise that you are not welcome in the dressing area.

 

[abdmom]

Take your daughters shopping yourself. I'm having a tough time believing that there are men in the world who take their 7 and 9 DDs clothes shopping. Even getting past that, does he actually believe he should be allowed in a woman's fitting room?

There are plenty of widowers in the world. About 1% of children in U.S. will have their mom die before they graduate high school. I would hope that those dads will buy their children some clothes. BTW, about 4% will have their dad die.

 

[MerMom60_94]

I think the type of dressing room really is the crux of the issue, IMO. If the dressing room is one of those opens-directly-to-the-store types, obviously it really doesn't matter where the dad hangs out.

If the dressing room is one like in Bicker's drawing, if it had doors with no or very small gaps, I - and I think many women- wouldn't really have an issue with a dad hanging out in the communal hallway.

If the dressing room has just curtains or doors with wider gaps, then I think the man has no business being in the woman's dressing room- no matter what his business is being in there (helping an adult woman, or child, etc.) Ultimately if the room is labeled "Woman's Dressing Room" there is reasonable expectation that the dressing area, incl. hallway and stalls, would be for women only. Just like the Woman's bathroom is for women, not men with young daughters.

Regardless, my rule of thumb is that we accommodate our own needs- we don't expect others to accommodate them. In other words in that situation I'd send my young daughter in to change by herself while I waited outside the dressing room or I'd find someone to shop with me. I'D be making the special accommodation for my situation, rather than expecting others to just suck it up.

I think you and I are actually on the same page on this, even if it isn't coming across that way. There is such a variation in dressing rooms and how they are designed and what type of doors are on the stalls. That makes all the difference. I also agree people need to be considerate of other users and accommodate the people around them and be considerate / sensitive in these situations. We can't all just do what works for us individually. I can think of stores where I would be uncomfortable with men in the entry area and I can think of stores where they could stand outside the stalls and I would never know the difference. It really comes down to the design of the room and the types of doors on the stalls.

 

[RF536]

I have 2 boys 7 and 9, when I take them clothes shopping, I send them into the men's dressing room and wait for them outside the entrance to the dressing room. I tell them to change into the clothes and then come out and show me, so I can see how they fit. This is how my mom always did it with us when we were growing up. I don't see the need for a husband or boyfriend to accompany their wife/girlfiend into the dressing room, if they want to see how something fits they can wait at the entrance and their SO can come out there and show them.