Ft. Wilderness Cabins becoming DVC?

[Sandisw]

Are you referring to the original POS when they went on sale or the current POS?
SSR didn't have views when it went on sale, they were added later, so the original POS doesn't have it and they're not in the table. BWV went on sale with standard and preferred, BW view was created later, but just creating the booking category, not changing the point charts. So the BWV maximum reallocation shows two views, that were already there at the resort when it was created and were never altered since.
If someone has the original AKV or BLT POS, can you please check if the maximum reallocation paragraph shows different views or not? Thanks
It doesn't prove anything either case, but it's curious that some resort have views in that table and some don't.

I know that the SSR building differences were added later, but I don't see anything that the DVC membership agreement (updated in 2013) that breaks it down how views/categories can be done...I was an original BLT owner and they never had anything in there about view breakdowns...

Here is the specific language regarding the maximum reallocation of BLT...I think its this way for all of the resorts...no mention of views...its in the DVC membership agreement.



Here is the language from RIV Membership agreement....and it does break it down (didn't realize that)....which in turn matches that chart...



And, here is AKV...again, nothing related to views or categories...



So, it appears to me that the way it is stated in each individual POS seems to match the chart....and that each resort has been done a little differently, which is why we see it different in the charts. I looked up BWV, which was last amended in 2013 and sure enough, the standard vs. preferred language is there.

To me, any of the resorts that did not have specific categories defined in the Membership Agreement for that resort allows for them to create them and decide how many of each exist. And, for those that do...like RIV and BWV...they must always have SV and PV...but the current decision of which rooms go into each, can be changed...if they need to.

And, isn't that what happened with BLT...they moved some rooms from 3rd and 4th floor from TPV to SV because once resort was opened, it was deemed they needed adjusting?

 

[zavandor]

I know that the SSR building differences were added later, but I don't see anything that the DVC membership agreement (updated in 2013) that breaks it down how views/categories can be done...I was an original BLT owner and they never had anything in there about view breakdowns...

Here is the specific language regarding the maximum reallocation of BLT...I think its this way for all of the resorts...no mention of views...its in the DVC membership agreement.

View attachment 779006

Here is the language form RIV Membership agreement....and it does break it down (didn't realize that)....which in turn matches that chart...

View attachment 779008

And, here is AKV...again, nothing related to views or categories...

View attachment 779009

So, it appears to me that the way it is stated in each individual POS seems to match the chart....and that each resort has been done a little differently, which is why we see it different in the charts. I looked up BWV, which was last amended in 2013 and sure enough, the standard vs. preferred language is there.

To me, any of the resorts that did not have specific categories defined in the Membership Agreement for that resort allows for them to create them and decide how many of each exist. And, for those that do...like RIV and BWV...they must always have SV and PV...but the current decision of which rooms go into each, can be changed...if they need to.

And, isn't that what happened with BLT...they moved some rooms from 3rd and 4th floor from TPV to SV because once resort was opened, it was deemed they needed adjusting?

Interesting.
Are the BLT and AKV numbers an average of all the views or the numbers for the cheapest views?

 

[Sandisw]

Interesting.
Are the BLT and AKV numbers an average of all the views or the numbers for the cheapest views?

I have not calculated it, but my interpretation of this is that is the what would happen with point chart that was leveled and there were no categories, and no seasons...every day of the year was exactly the same...meaning, those numbers represented on the entire chart for the resort would match the declared points in the association....

So, with travel periods and views, you have days that are more than that and some that are less....if you use RIV as an example for SV...you are guaranteed to be able to book a SV studio for every 20 points that are owned....so, if I own 200 points, I should be able, over the course of a year to book at least 10 days in a SV studio...subject to availability

If I look at the points chart for 2024, it goes from 14 to 32 points a night....so, plenty of nights in the year that would allow for that 20 per point average...at least this is how I view it.

And, why I think when it comes to the cabins...if they set an average at 30 to 35 a night...you would have some seasons that would be less, and some more (potentially)....which is less than the averages you see in 2 bedroom villas which are the only other DVC accommodations that will sleep 6....IMO, that is the piece that DVD will capitalize on with sales.

What good is the studio or 1 bedroom chart if it doesn't sleep 6 and you need 6??

 

[Leight19]

I have not calculated it, but my interpretation of this is that is the what would happen with point chart that was leveled and there were no categories, and no seasons...every day of the year was exactly the same...meaning, those numbers represented on the entire chart for the resort would match the declared points in the association....

So, with travel periods and views, you have days that are more than that and some that are less....if you use RIV as an example for SV...you are guaranteed to be able to book a SV studio for every 20 points that are owned....so, if I own 200 points, I should be able, over the course of a year to book at least 10 days in a SV studio...subject to availability

If I look at the points chart for 2024, it goes from 14 to 32 points a night....so, plenty of nights in the year that would allow for that 20 per point average...at least this is how I view it.

And, why I think when it comes to the cabins...if they set an average at 30 to 35 a night...you would have some seasons that would be less, and some more (potentially)....which is less than the averages you see in 2 bedroom villas which are the only other DVC accommodations that will sleep 6....IMO, that is the piece that DVD will capitalize on with sales.

What good is the studio or 1 bedroom chart if it doesn't sleep 6 and you need 6??

I guess the question is what percent of buyers need place for 6 and would be interested in doing that with the setup they have which is smaller then all other 1br? Also of those who need today how many would need that for 50 years to justify buying? My assumption is most will buy because they want to stay fort wilderness cabins and most won’t actually use that full capacity to appreciably drive sales so I value the square footage and amenities more then the head count.

In the end with respect to points, the devil will be in the details of what they can fit improvement wise. If we assume it’s like current setup with queen bed, bunk beds, 1 bathroom, no washer/dryer, and less equipped kitchen I see these as being just above studio so would expect some of the higher priced studios to actually cost more given the moderate resort location.

As some have suggested they should be able to make some improvements but the square footage sounds fixed so I am not expecting more then one or two of the changes. If they improve the sleep surfaces with some method that improves effective square footage and can fit in the king bed, real sleep surfaces for all 6, washer/dryer and full kitchen, I could see this matching the low end 1BRs. Anything more expensive above that I just can’t see selling well unless they really discount the $/point.

 

[Sandisw]

I guess the question is what percent of buyers need place for 6 and would be interested in doing that with the setup they have which is smaller then all other 1br? Also of those who need today how many would need that for 50 years to justify buying? My assumption is most will buy because they want to stay fort wilderness cabins and most won’t actually use that full capacity to appreciably drive sales so I value the square footage and amenities more then the head count.

In the end with respect to points, the devil will be in the details of what they can fit improvement wise. If we assume it’s like current setup with queen bed, bunk beds, 1 bathroom, no washer/dryer, and less equipped kitchen I see these as being just above studio so would expect some of the higher priced studios to actually cost more given the moderate resort location.

As some have suggested they should be able to make some improvements but the square footage sounds fixed so I am not expecting more then one or two of the changes. If they improve the sleep surfaces with some method that improves effective square footage and can fit in the king bed, real sleep surfaces for all 6, washer/dryer and full kitchen, I could see this matching the low end 1BRs. Anything more expensive above that I just can’t see selling well unless they really discount the $/point.

The only thing they said would be staying the same is the pad...not that the cabins themselves would be the same...now, I don't know how much external room there is to fit something larger on those pads.

I do agree that people may not always cram 6 in the rooms, but it will be a selling point. Not sure why people will all of a sudden have a different same mindset that many have now. Buy to stay but also have the luxury to stay elsewhere in the system. And not all 1 bedrooms sleep even 5. Those thst do are on the more expensive end.

I bet there were plenty of PVB buyers when it was the active selling resort, with no larger units, who bought there expecting not to have to stay there for 50 years.

Again, people did think that RIV, being located where it was, right next to CBR would somehow make it unpopular and yet, it is selling, is getting booked, and is being booked by cash guests to boot...part of the reason why I don't think DVD cares how long it has taken to sell.

I agree this will be popular with only a certain group of buyer, but I just can't say its only marginally better than a studio when you have a kitchen, eating area, living space, and a bedroom??? All things they have already announced and I am not sure I would assume there will be no changes to the layout.

Now, I would not be interested, but I do know how much we have paid for tiny homes elsewhere, and how upscale some of them have been and I can say, they can command a decent price..so, if they do what I believe they will do, these will be so much more than what is currently there.

But, given we haven't gotten any updates on Poly tower, my guess is we will debating what these have for another 6 months!!

Another thing to consider is that these needed to be updated and replaced. By creating a DVC resort, it allows them to develop via DVD and then decide later how popular they are between DVC and cash guests. If these are popular for the cash guests, but sales are soft, then DVD will simply take their time to sell them....

 

[Genie+]

And it’s not just that it can sleep 6, it’s how it can sleep 6. With the possible loft there will be two spaces for 2 ppl each to sleep separately, neither having to cross the other to reach the bathroom or kitchen. More privacy here that could intrigue parties smaller than 6.

 

[Sandisw]

And it’s not just that it can sleep 6, it’s how it can sleep 6. With the possible loft there will be two spaces for 2 ppl each to sleep separately, neither having to cross the other to reach the bathroom or kitchen. More privacy here that could intrigue parties smaller than 6.

Another thought. Look at the resort studios. Two real queen beds and they seem to be popular and lack a true kitchenette.

Also there was some idea that something like a family suite at Poly tower might be poplar with the bedroom not having the king bed but rather two beds to sleep four.

There is just so much that could be done to make these unique and popular to new buyers.

ETA: At RIV, the difference between a tower studio (which is tiny) and a studio is about 3 to 4 points more per night. I toured one last month and no way would I even stay in that as a single, let alone two...yet, people do...and its owners booking them so they obviously bought with those in mind.....

 

[DVCPAT]

The rooms almost don’t matter to me. There is no way I’m going to get on a bus or golf cart and spend an hour going up to the Trails End quick service or to catch a boat to MK. I have spent LOTS of time at FW …… some trips 4-6 weeks And I know very well how big the resort is and how much time can be wasted traversing the place. Unless they have a quick service restaurant specifically for DVC AND a seriously upgraded pool/recreation area, there will be no way I’ll ever stay there. It’s a loooong distance from the current cabin area up to the settlement.

Sounds like at some point, you enjoyed the resort. I can’t imagine spending so much time at a location that didn’t have any positives?
I might be in the minority, but the ability to bring the family dog will be nice. Having a golf cart will make the journey from point A to B within the resort kind of fun. I think it will be more popular than some think.

 

[Leight19]

Sounds like at some point, you enjoyed the resort. I can’t imagine spending so much time at a location that didn’t have any positives?
I might be in the minority, but the ability to bring the family dog will be nice. Having a golf cart will make the journey from point A to B within the resort kind of fun. I think it will be more popular than some think.

I think depends on point charts. If priced like a 2bedroom I don’t think it sells well regardless of what changes they make. If priced as a cheapest 1BR or as upper studio I think it sells like hot cakes even without any changes. Anything in between will depend on what they can do to shake the notion these are moderate accommodations because everyone can Google and see rack rate today is in line with the cheapest dvc studios.

 

[DVCPAT]

I think depends on point charts. If priced like a 2bedroom I don’t think it sells well regardless of what changes they make. If priced as a cheapest 1BR or as upper studio I think it sells like hot cakes even without any changes. Anything in between will depend on what they can do to shake the notion these are moderate accommodations because everyone can Google and see rack rate today is in line with the cheapest dvc studios.

True… depends on the cost. I’ll reserve judgement until I see the point chart and dues.

 

[champagne&disney]

I am not DVC and if you had asked me previously if I'd be interested in buying in, I would have said no.

The only reason I am even remotely interested is because I stayed at FW in April in a cabin and had the absolute best time - the space was great, I cooked a few meals vs eating overpriced theme park food again and enjoyed the property.

I like to visit Disney with my dog (sometimes alone and sometimes with a friend) and the pure convenience of the cabins when having a dog was priceless. Also, he had the best time riding on the golf cart. When I called a Minnie Van to go to dinner at the California Grill, it felt very VIP to have them pick up and drop off right at my cabin. What a treat!

So don't underestimate people like me who are worried they will be priced out of the cabins if they don't consider DVC. There is a market for the privacy and convenience vs what is offered at any other DVC property.

 

[DVCPAT]

I am not DVC and if you had asked me previously if I'd be interested in buying in, I would have said no.

The only reason I am even remotely interested is because I stayed at FW in April in a cabin and had the absolute best time - the space was great, I cooked a few meals vs eating overpriced theme park food again and enjoyed the property.

I like to visit Disney with my dog (sometimes alone and sometimes with a friend) and the pure convenience of the cabins when having a dog was priceless. Also, he had the best time riding on the golf cart. When I called a Minnie Van to go to dinner at the California Grill, it felt very VIP to have them pick up and drop off right at my cabin. What a treat!

So don't underestimate people like me who are worried they will be priced out of the cabins if they don't consider DVC. There is a market for the privacy and convenience vs what is offered at any other DVC property.

100% agree….Disney will spot light the new DVC location and make improvements within the resort to increase the return on investment. Cabin rental prices will surely increase.

 

[bianca]

Sounds like at some point, you enjoyed the resort. I can’t imagine spending so much time at a location that didn’t have any positives?
I might be in the minority, but the ability to bring the family dog will be nice. Having a golf cart will make the journey from point A to B within the resort kind of fun. I think it will be more popular than some think.

We enjoyed all of our trips at FW immensely! The difference is that when you are camping, you choose the location you wish to stay in based on your needs. We always preferred to stay closer to Pioneer Hall, yet not too far from the main pool. If there isn’t a HUGE improvement in the pool that sits by the cabins, it will require much more time traversing the resort to get to the original pool. Golf carts are great fun and we owned our own. That being said, if I were to run out of milk or bread (pick anything) for the family, it’s a 20-30 minute round trip to pick them up at the closest store. It’s just not the same as an elevator ride downstairs and a short walk outdoors to get to amenities. For us, time is money and Disney isn’t getting any cheaper.

My DH has already stated that he would like to buy at the Fort, depending on how the DVC amenities look. I’m excited to find out, as we have many great family memories there.

 

[DVCPAT]

We enjoyed all of our trips at FW immensely! The difference is that when you are camping, you choose the location you wish to stay in based on your needs. We always preferred to stay closer to Pioneer Hall, yet not too far from the main pool. If there isn’t a HUGE improvement in the pool that sits by the cabins, it will require much more time traversing the resort to get to the original pool. Golf carts are great fun and we owned our own. That being said, if I were to run out of milk or bread (pick anything) for the family, it’s a 20-30 minute round trip to pick them up at the closest store. It’s just not the same as an elevator ride downstairs and a short walk outdoors to get to amenities. For us, time is money and Disney isn’t getting any cheaper.

My DH has already stated that he would like to buy at the Fort, depending on how the DVC amenities look. I’m excited to find out, as we have many great family memories there.

I’m really looking foreward to details… it’s all about ROI. Can’t imagine Disney not improving the units/area so they create demand and increase prices.

 

[maui22]

Sounds like at some point, you enjoyed the resort. I can’t imagine spending so much time at a location that didn’t have any positives?
I might be in the minority, but the ability to bring the family dog will be nice. Having a golf cart will make the journey from point A to B within the resort kind of fun. I think it will be more popular than some think.

Wait until people see the FW Halloween decorations and parade.

 

[lawboy2001]

I am not DVC and if you had asked me previously if I'd be interested in buying in, I would have said no.

The only reason I am even remotely interested is because I stayed at FW in April in a cabin and had the absolute best time - the space was great, I cooked a few meals vs eating overpriced theme park food again and enjoyed the property.

I like to visit Disney with my dog (sometimes alone and sometimes with a friend) and the pure convenience of the cabins when having a dog was priceless. Also, he had the best time riding on the golf cart. When I called a Minnie Van to go to dinner at the California Grill, it felt very VIP to have them pick up and drop off right at my cabin. What a treat!

So don't underestimate people like me who are worried they will be priced out of the cabins if they don't consider DVC. There is a market for the privacy and convenience vs what is offered at any other DVC property.

I was so close to adding on at VGF with all the great financial inducements, but this plan for a Ft Wilderness "pet friendly" DVC put the brakes on! I may buy a lot of points and just enjoy a long stay with the pooch....and put her in Best Friends when we are having park days!

 

[tidefan]

Wait until people see the FW Halloween decorations and parade.

I will bet that October, November, and December will be the highest point times at this resort, easy. In fact, I think you’ll see a lot of Halloween and Christmas fixed weeks (if they offer them) sold pretty early on…

 

[MyDogTink]

I find it interesting that the cabins are currently in the moderate category and will probably be moved to the deluxe villa category.

 

[aka Charles]

It is very likely that the original "Reflections" project was the start of a masterplan to upgrade all of Fort Wilderness to full Deluxe Resort status. As part of that plan I am sure the upgrade to the cabins were mapped out. The artist renderings to the "New" cabins seem to indicate the same design theme of Reflections. That is not a coincidence, I am sure. Since Reflections is on hold (but not officially cancelled), it looks like they are going ahead with the rest of the plan. It would not be surprising if they want to get to that deluxe status so they could not only increase the cost of the cabins, but the cost of all the campsites as well. If so, I hope that they step up the amenities to a higher level, including the dining options and transportation. I am looking forward to it.
.

 

[Cfabar1]

ETA: At RIV, the difference between a tower studio (which is tiny) and a studio is about 3 to 4 points more per night. I toured one last month and no way would I even stay in that as a single, let alone two...yet, people do...and its owners booking them so they obviously bought with those in mind.....

It's so true that buyers find different niches and preferences. Our favorite room in all of DVC is the tower studios at Riviera, we think they are so enchanting and charming. Granted, we stay for one night.

Problem is, when we bought in we knew we would be taking many trips with more than just two, and we preferred the rooms at VGF more....