Ft. Wilderness Cabins becoming DVC?

[HappyDisneyWife]

Wow. My post is getting blown up way out of context & making serious presumptions about me & my intentions. I’m sorry… & have deleted it.

People look at the cost of campsites and think “Oh it’s the cheapest place to stay at Disney”. But once you add in all the costs of RV ownership, the price of that style of vacationing jumps drastically. It’s not unheard of to see $1m class A RVs at FW.

I didn’t say the people staying there are cheap or poor… but it cannot be denied that you can rent a campsite or trailer site for the cheapest per night cost at a Disney resort. It’s a simple fact.

What you put on that site is up to you. Obviously camping & glamping are huge markets.

If anyone thinks it’s just a “trailer park”, either they’ve never seen a trailer park or they’ve never been to FW.

I’ve got relatives living in them… the people are friendly, and the homes are lovely. They are truly wonderful communities.

You are right- I’ve not physically been to FW. I’ve watched hours of videos of others staying & driving around there, and was hoping to stay there myself someday… just never dreamed it might be in a DVC cabin.

My camper van cost way more than DVC. Trucks and trailers etc cost way more than DVC. And FW is one of the nicer campgrounds you'll find. I'm thinking the campers might be thinking DVC is bringing down the neighborhood.

Again. My comment was taken out of my previous post’s context & has hit a nerve. I’m truly sorry if I caused you offense & I’ve deleted that comment.

I do not think down on campers, or owners of RV’s. Our dear old neighbor’s RV definitely cost more than our old house did & they were sweet enough to let us ride around the block in it. Good memories!!

To everyone else- where a person stays, IMO, usually says very little about their true monetary situation. Too many people want to live a life they can’t afford, while others (like my parents’ good friends- the richest couple in Indiana- bonafide billionaires) travel very modestly.

 

[ehh]

Time for some points speculation! With math!

Current rack rates (post-tax) for a few different resorts, with WDW data from mousesavers.com, VDH data from manually compiling on disneyland.com:

• Current Cabins at FWR: ~$560 average in 2023
• Copper Creek Studio: ~$620 average in 2023
• BLT Standard View Studio: ~$850 average in 2023
• Poly Standard View Studio: ~$840 average in 2023
• VDH 1 Bedroom: ~$1640 average in late 2023

Current average points per night:

• CCV Studio: 17.3pts/night
• BLT SV Studio: 18.0pts/night
• PVB SV Studio: 21.8pts/night
• VDH 1BR: 44.3pts/night in late 2023

Cash rate $ per point:

• CCV Studio: ~$35.8/pt
• BLT SV Studio ~$47.2/pt
  • aside: I never realized BLT was such a good value vs. cash rate, crikey
• PVB SV Studio: ~$38.5/pt
• VDH 1BR: ~$37.0/pt

CCV Studios are the worst value of this group. Even if CFW has a sizable 50% bump in cash rate from the redo/replacement, if we use CCV's lower end of value, that works out to just 23.5pts/night. Slightly less than a VDH PV Deluxe Studio or RIV PV Deluxe Studio.

A 100% bump in cash rate would still be just 31.3pts/night, about the same as a SSR 1BR (31.5pts/night). Counting on cash rates to double seems naive unless the cabins get physically larger.

In summary, I don't think these will be high in points, at all. Or if they are, it's at a poor $/pt value.

 

[Leight19]

Wow. My post is getting blown up way out of context & making serious presumptions about me & my intentions. I’m sorry… & have deleted it.


I didn’t say the people staying there are cheap or poor… but it cannot be denied that you can rent a campsite or trailer site for the cheapest per night cost at a Disney resort. It’s a simple fact.

What you put on that site is up to you. Obviously camping & glamping are huge markets.

I’ve got relatives living in them… the people are friendly, and the homes are lovely. They are truly wonderful communities.

You are right- I’ve not physically been to FW. I’ve watched hours of videos of others staying & driving around there, and was hoping to stay there myself someday… just never dreamed it might be in a DVC cabin.

Again. My comment was taken out of my previous post’s context & has hit a nerve. I’m truly sorry if I caused you offense & I’ve deleted that comment.

I do not think down on campers, or owners of RV’s. Our dear old neighbor’s RV definitely cost more than our old house did & they were sweet enough to let us ride around the block in it. Good memories!!

To everyone else- where a person stays, IMO, usually says very little about their true monetary situation. Too many people want to live a life they can’t afford, while others (like my parents’ good friends- the richest couple in Indiana- bonafide billionaires) travel very modestly.

I think I took your message the way intended and not as nock on people staying there. To me it’s simple fact if you have value resort with shared amenities with dvc you can’t provide the same experience as other deluxes when the shared space is with campsites which can be used for multiple families for 1/10th the cost of average deluxe room (the math just doesn’t work).

To me the point charts have to reflect both the small square footage as well as being a value property vs deluxe. Now that’s not a nock on the property or shaming people who stay there as this would be one of my top places to stay if the point chart made sense. But to make sense it basically needs to be the lowest 1BR to remotely justify the points for me and honestly should be cheaper then many studios based on comparable cash rates (I like idea of advertising this as a 1br you can stay for cost of studio like the pitch of the treehouses being 3BR for cost of 2br).

 

[Nursemanit]

Time for some points speculation! With math!

Current rack rates (post-tax) for a few different resorts, with WDW data from mousesavers.com, VDH data from manually compiling on disneyland.com:

• Current Cabins at FWR: ~$560 average in 2023
• Copper Creek Studio: ~$620 average in 2023
• BLT Standard View Studio: ~$850 average in 2023
• Poly Standard View Studio: ~$840 average in 2023
• VDH 1 Bedroom: ~$1640 average in late 2023

Current average points per night:

• CCV Studio: 17.3pts/night
• BLT SV Studio: 18.0pts/night
• PVB SV Studio: 21.8pts/night
• VDH 1BR: 44.3pts/night in late 2023

Cash rate $ per point:

• CCV Studio: ~$35.8/pt
• BLT SV Studio ~$47.2/pt
  • aside: I never realized BLT was such a good value vs. cash rate, crikey
• PVB SV Studio: ~$38.5/pt
• VDH 1BR: ~$37.0/pt

CCV Studios are the worst value of this group. Even if CFW has a sizable 50% bump in cash rate from the redo/replacement, if we use CCV's lower end of value, that works out to just 23.5pts/night. Slightly less than a VDH PV Deluxe Studio or RIV PV Deluxe Studio.

A 100% bump in cash rate would still be just 31.3pts/night, about the same as a SSR 1BR (31.5pts/night). Counting on cash rates to double seems naive unless the cabins get physically larger.

In summary, I don't think these will be high in points, at all. Or if they are, it's at a poor $/pt value.

Great numbers - So a CC studio sleeps 4, 340ish Sq Ft. vs, current and the proposed cabin sleeps 6, 500sq feet so 1.5x seems to be the multiplier lets say 26 points/night? That seems low but the real rental rate of the cabin is less than $560 as it is discounted most of the year.

You're not just renting a 500sq ft room, you are renting a deck, a private ( using that loosely ) area for the kids, and a grill. Add in the golf carts and the "something different from a hotel" factor and you get full picture.

 

[Sandisw]

The other thing to remember if people are worried about the semi deluxe piece is that this doesn’t have to have the same non home resort booking as others.

BVTC can make the trading rules different for different resorts..so they could say trades in or out happen at 5 months vs 7 months, etc.

Not sure theey will

Great numbers - So a CC studio sleeps 4, 340ish Sq Ft. vs, current and the proposed cabin sleeps 6, 500sq feet so 1.5x seems to be the multiplier lets say 26 points/night? That seems low but the real rental rate of the cabin is less than $560 as it is discounted most of the year.

It could close since it would put in line with SSR..those range in SV 21 to 30, outside premium week. I could see that…

 

[Nursemanit]

The other thing to remember if people are worried about the semi deluxe piece is that this doesn’t have to have the same non home resort booking as others.

BVTC can make the trading rules different for different resorts..so they could say trades in or out happen at 5 months vs 7 months, etc.

Not sure theey will


It could close since it would put in line with SSR..those range in SV 21 to 30, outside premium week. I could see that…

I see this more like VDH or to some extent RR - they are going to buy to stay at the cabins not to trade out.

 

[Epcot Forever Forever]

aside: I never realized BLT was such a good value vs. cash rate, crikey

When I ran the numbers several years ago (painstaking work, do not recommend), BLT Studio was the best deal in the whole system. Wasn’t particularly close either IIRC. Edit: Just went and double checked and OKW was a better deal, then BLT was #2. This was like 4 years ago.

Of course then you have to stay at BLT

 

[Spivey378]

Fort Wilderness is so much fun. Horse back riding, fishing, nice pools, good trails, tons of kid’s activities. I am very excited for this.

The main reason I bought my CCV points was because it was the closest thing to the FW vibe.

If the points chart is reasonable I will seriously consider adding on.

 

[Memorymakerfor4]

When I first saw this, I was pretty excited. I love FW (haven't stayed but visit a lot). And it would be great to be able to use points there. But the more I think on it... I don't know, I have so many questions. I can't think of any other associations that just offer one product. Maybe they'll do a Jambo/Kidani thing with CC and give owners 11 month privileges at both resorts. This would be a big negative for Copper Creek owners though, GFV style.

Or maybe it's Phase 1 of turning FW into a deluxe resort and I would just hate that. I was just reading about Paradise Cove in CA and it feels like that, taking a unique community and totally changing the character. The Trail's End change would make more sense in this scenario though, if they have a signature restaurant in the works. Build it next to a new lazy river. Phase 2 is a smaller Reflectionsish tower like at Poly.

 

[Spivey378]

I also think these will be a new association which means points restrictions will likely exist. I also think they're going to basically be tiny houses like what they put in up here near Kings Island in Mason Ohio.

I'm relieved this may mean the end of Reflections. IMHO, that was just the wrong place for a modern looking resort.

Or Lighthouse Point cabins at Cedar Point, which we love to stay at.

https://www.cedarpoint.com/resorts/...T8lyyXLp2pZDUf7yKAwaArnMEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

[mamaofsix]

Time for some points speculation! With math!

Current rack rates (post-tax) for a few different resorts, with WDW data from mousesavers.com, VDH data from manually compiling on disneyland.com:

• Current Cabins at FWR: ~$560 average in 2023
• Copper Creek Studio: ~$620 average in 2023
• BLT Standard View Studio: ~$850 average in 2023
• Poly Standard View Studio: ~$840 average in 2023
• VDH 1 Bedroom: ~$1640 average in late 2023

Current average points per night:

• CCV Studio: 17.3pts/night
• BLT SV Studio: 18.0pts/night
• PVB SV Studio: 21.8pts/night
• VDH 1BR: 44.3pts/night in late 2023

Cash rate $ per point:

• CCV Studio: ~$35.8/pt
• BLT SV Studio ~$47.2/pt
  • aside: I never realized BLT was such a good value vs. cash rate, crikey
• PVB SV Studio: ~$38.5/pt
• VDH 1BR: ~$37.0/pt

CCV Studios are the worst value of this group. Even if CFW has a sizable 50% bump in cash rate from the redo/replacement, if we use CCV's lower end of value, that works out to just 23.5pts/night. Slightly less than a VDH PV Deluxe Studio or RIV PV Deluxe Studio.

A 100% bump in cash rate would still be just 31.3pts/night, about the same as a SSR 1BR (31.5pts/night). Counting on cash rates to double seems naive unless the cabins get physically larger.

In summary, I don't think these will be high in points, at all. Or if they are, it's at a poor $/pt value.

I don't think these will be comparable to studios. Honestly, I think they'll be more points than a 1 bedroom as well.

 

[mamaofsix]

I also think these will be a new association which means points restrictions will likely exist. I also think they're going to basically be tiny houses like what they put in up here near Kings Island in Mason Ohio.

I'm relieved this may mean the end of Reflections. IMHO, that was just the wrong place for a modern looking resort.

Curious: don't you think these new cabins have the same modern look as Reflections did?

 

[Ruttangel]

Only been to FW once to do the carriage ride, it was the night before SWGE opened and the cast member was amazing and the ride itself was lovely through the woodland

 

[Sandisw]

I see this more like VDH or to some extent RR - they are going to buy to stay at the cabins not to trade out.

Possiblt. Just bringing the point that they can make things different for each resort and that nothing requires them to give owners of every resort the same level of trading power.

 

[PrincessKL]

We do summer vacations in the cabins up north in the Midwest a lot, so I will probably pass on this one. I can see it as a good vacation if not going to the parks much.

Anyone notice it said a bathroom, not bathrooms, for 6 people? That’s just not going to work for us.

 

[mamaofsix]

We do summer vacations in the cabins up north in the Midwest a lot, so I will probably pass on this one. I can see it as a good vacation if not going to the parks much.

Anyone notice it said a bathroom, not bathrooms, for 6 people? That’s just not going to work for us.

Hopefully it will be a split design for the bathroom...

 

[TT4Dis]

When I first saw the news yesterday I was very intrigued. We currently have resale points at AKV and BRV. So my first thought was, well this may mean we will actually buy direct points now to get access to new cabins. But if there are resale restrictions then we will pass and may look into a small direct contract at another resort we can use for cabins at 7 months. Now I need to research which direct points are best value right now.

 

[PrincessKL]

When I first saw the news yesterday I was very intrigued. We currently have resale points at AKV and BRV. So my first thought was, well this may mean we will actually buy direct points now to get access to new cabins. But if there are resale restrictions then we will pass and may look into a small direct contract at another resort we can use for cabins at 7 months. Now I need to research which direct points are best value right now.

The only one without resale restriction right now is VGF…

Oh and AKV is selling now too.

 

[Amyunder]

Wow. My post is getting blown up way out of context & making serious presumptions about me & my intentions. I’m sorry… & have deleted it.


I didn’t say the people staying there are cheap or poor… but it cannot be denied that you can rent a campsite or trailer site for the cheapest per night cost at a Disney resort. It’s a simple fact.

What you put on that site is up to you. Obviously camping & glamping are huge markets.

I’ve got relatives living in them… the people are friendly, and the homes are lovely. They are truly wonderful communities.

You are right- I’ve not physically been to FW. I’ve watched hours of videos of others staying & driving around there, and was hoping to stay there myself someday… just never dreamed it might be in a DVC cabin.

Again. My comment was taken out of my previous post’s context & has hit a nerve. I’m truly sorry if I caused you offense & I’ve deleted that comment.

I do not think down on campers, or owners of RV’s. Our dear old neighbor’s RV definitely cost more than our old house did & they were sweet enough to let us ride around the block in it. Good memories!!

To everyone else- where a person stays, IMO, usually says very little about their true monetary situation. Too many people want to live a life they can’t afford, while others (like my parents’ good friends- the richest couple in Indiana- bonafide billionaires) travel very modestly.

I agree with you.... it's not the "cost" of the RV it a giant metal vehicle parking lot. Super nice but not the esthetic of walking around any of the other delux resorts. They make parking lot views less points for a reason . I bet they remedy it by routing traffic to a bus/tram that either goes to CC or does some funny path to the dock. I think you are right.

 

[perchy]

I'm just so confused by this announcement. It doesn't make any sense. Why?