Front of the line?

[SueM in MN]

There is more information about Guest Assistance Cards (GACs) in post #6 of the disABILITIES FAQs thread. You can find that thread toward the top of this board or just click the link in my signature to get there. The information is not 'official' since it is not from Disney, but I have CMs who are DIS members and work in Guest Relations read it periodically to make sure it is still up to date.
TO clarify - it is not meant to shorten or eliminate waits in line.
You don't need a doctor's note to request a GAC.
You do need to be able to explain the person's needs related to their disability.

Many other people besides Ireland Nicole have posted good experiences with using tour planning services like TourGuide Mike and RideMax. Those will help you to be in the quietest place so that you can ride with a short wait. That also helps outside the rides since there will be less people to contend with all over the place. The GAC does not help with anything other than attractions, while a touring plan can help with everything from waiting in line for food to waiting in line in the bathroom.
And a GAC won't really help much for someone who always wants to be first in line - GAC or no GAC, there will always be someone in front of him.

For classroom, etc. I like the "picking a child to be first" idea. This was what they did in both my kids early elementary classrooms. They had more than just the one child. I can't remember the details (and it was different because they had different teachers), but there was one child who was the 'Day Leader' and another who had another title and brought up the rear like someone else mentioned. It might help to have several 'special helpers' so that first isn't the only positive thing.

For WDW, besides using a stroller in line, some people have looked for Hidden Mickeys at the parks (especially with children who are high functioning) - you can find lists or books of hidden Mickeys and they are in many of the queues.

 

[kampfirekim]

If you're using the stroller as w/c accomodation, you will be directed to w/c accessible vehicles in other rides as well, and the h/c accessible entrance to rides w/ stairs. Depending on the cycle, this can certainly increase wait times. Although we use this accomodation, and it's a lifesaver, I find the most important tool for us is to use an excellent touring plan (usually a mix of TGM,Ridemax and touring plans). It's not just about a given ride queue; it's about being in the right park, in the right place, at the right time. I also employ every behavior mod I can, and make sure my kids have their tool kits handy w/ items to help themselves when they start into sensory overload.

This is great info, thanks! Since we are able to transfer DS5, the CM's always have the wc/stroller waiting at the attraction exits. I have been a Disney Vet since '72 and have never heard of TGM or Ridemax. Can you give more info or direct me to more info? We also use every behavior mod possible as well, to include meds, but are very limited in what actually works for us. DS5 has severe ASD/ADHD, and must have a small item in each hand ALL of the time. I am told this is his way of stimming. He is very specific about the items he will accept which makes if very difficult to offer a toy or another item as a distraction. What types of behavior mod have you tried successfully? Sorry this is so long and I hope not too many questions at once. I would really appreciate your input.

 

[clanmcculloch]

In school, the use of Social Stories and phrasing things in the form of rules seems to help a LOT with getting our Aspie to accept or understand expectations including how lines work. She's now 12 but back when she was in preschool this was a problem. We didn't know at the time that she was autistic but we did know that she responded really well to rules so we just explained the rule of taking turns. Once we learned about Social Stories, we used that to help her through these kinds of issues and they worked beautifully. Here's an example of a simple Social Story for lines.

When moving from one place to another at school, all of the children have to get in a line. There are xx children in the class. Each child will get a turn being line leader or line caboose. When it is not my turn I will take a place in the middle fo the line. I know I will get a turn another day.

It also helps if there's some kind of visual aid like a chart showing who is line leader and line caboose for the day. This is something that's also helpful to other kids in the class so there's no pushing or shoving to try to get to those spots. If there's some kind of visual cue showing how long it will be before he gets his turn as well as when everybody else gets their turns will also be helpful. Visual aids are so helpful in general.

For WDW, explaining ahead of time that there is no front of the line is helpful. It's a queue. Everybody gets in the queue at the same place and moves forward at the same pace. Eventually each person moves enough to get to the point where you get to board the ride. Avoid using the words "front" or "back". Calling it a queue also might help because it helps separate the concept of line means there's a front and back while queue means moving group of people towards a destination. Does that make sense?

ETA: Regarding TGM, we LOVE it. On our last trip which was over Christmas, we hardly even had to use our GAC because we knew how to tour so efficiently thanks to TGM. The site helps you know which park will be least crowded on each day as well as an explaination of why. It also helps you know which rides and shows to go to at what times in order to minimize waits. It was amazing touring with TGM. I've already re-subscribed for our August trip. A GAC can only do so much because the common areas between rides are also areas that can cause problems for my daughter as are busses. If the crowds are low then she can cope much easier.

 

[Kay1]

My answer may be too simplistic but I say just let him cry it out at home and in the classroom. He has to learn that it's simply impossible to be first.

My son has autism and used to throw fits when anything changed or was different. We probably spent too much time catering to his whims, but eventually, we had to stop because he was running us ragged.

For example, he used to love small, plastic characters, especially Snow White and the Seven Dwarves. If he misplaced a dwarf we could not buy a new on because he could tell the difference. We had to let him scream it out and to this day he'll say, "Get a new one" because he learned there is no other option.

At POR he dropped a figure into the water off the boat. We tried to buy him another at the POR gift shop but there wasn't one. He still talks about that toy after 12 years and that day we had to listen to him scream all the way home to St. Petersburg, but, again, he learned.

I think that should be the focus with the boy in the OP.The focus needs to be on teaching him to accept reality. I would calmly tell him, "You can't always be first", "You can't always be first" over and over again until he gets it.

 

[SueM in MN]

TGM is TourGuide Mike, which is a planning service to help you plan your day to avoid the busiest areas and minimize waits.
Mike was a WDW VIP Tour Guide who started his own business sharing some of the thongs he learned while being a Tour Guide.
He is a sponsor of the Theme Parks Board and you can find a link to his website on the top of that board.

Ridemax is also a planning service. They have data about ride busyness and help you plan your touring by knowing that. I believe their website is www.ridemax.com

they have a WDW and a DISNEYLAND. Version, so make sure you choose the correct one.

 

[kampfirekim]

In school, the use of Social Stories and phrasing things in the form of rules seems to help a LOT with getting our Aspie to accept or understand expectations including how lines work. She's now 12 but back when she was in preschool this was a problem. We didn't know at the time that she was autistic but we did know that she responded really well to rules so we just explained the rule of taking turns. Once we learned about Social Stories, we used that to help her through these kinds of issues and they worked beautifully. Here's an example of a simple Social Story for lines.



It also helps if there's some kind of visual aid like a chart showing who is line leader and line caboose for the day. This is something that's also helpful to other kids in the class so there's no pushing or shoving to try to get to those spots. If there's some kind of visual cue showing how long it will be before he gets his turn as well as when everybody else gets their turns will also be helpful. Visual aids are so helpful in general.

For WDW, explaining ahead of time that there is no front of the line is helpful. It's a queue. Everybody gets in the queue at the same place and moves forward at the same pace. Eventually each person moves enough to get to the point where you get to board the ride. Avoid using the words "front" or "back". Calling it a queue also might help because it helps separate the concept of line means there's a front and back while queue means moving group of people towards a destination. Does that make sense?

ETA: Regarding TGM, we LOVE it. On our last trip which was over Christmas, we hardly even had to use our GAC because we knew how to tour so efficiently thanks to TGM. The site helps you know which park will be least crowded on each day as well as an explaination of why. It also helps you know which rides and shows to go to at what times in order to minimize waits. It was amazing touring with TGM. I've already re-subscribed for our August trip. A GAC can only do so much because the common areas between rides are also areas that can cause problems for my daughter as are busses. If the crowds are low then she can cope much easier.

Hi! I am not sure if your reply was for me or not, but, a lot of good info nevertheless. The situation with my DS5 is not that he has to be first in line. I don't think he even understands or cares about that. The issue is being at a stand still, such as lines for shows or extremely slow lines. These are the times that he really needs to be cocooned, or redirected if possible. If we can keep him moving, he usually will be OK. His speech at present is very limited, as well as cognition, so explanations of line rules are not something that he really will understand. We use FP as often as possible, but I do need to use GAC as well. (Hopefully I won't be judged to harshly.) We don't seem to have serious problems in common areas. He doesn't have issues with noise or people. It is feeling trapped and confined that causes the most distress for him. (Yes, I know it sounds strange that he likes to be in the stroller.).At the Fort W. pool DH has to be at bottom of the slide and I meet DS at the top to keep him from pushing his way to the front. He doesn't understand yet, although we are trying hard to teach him, that breaking in line is wrong. He only understands that he wants to slide. I may give TGM a try. Thanks for the tip. There are never any easy answers are there!?

 

[ireland_nicole]

This is great info, thanks! Since we are able to transfer DS5, the CM's always have the wc/stroller waiting at the attraction exits. I have been a Disney Vet since '72 and have never heard of TGM or Ridemax. Can you give more info or direct me to more info? We also use every behavior mod possible as well, to include meds, but are very limited in what actually works for us. DS5 has severe ASD/ADHD, and must have a small item in each hand ALL of the time. I am told this is his way of stimming. He is very specific about the items he will accept which makes if very difficult to offer a toy or another item as a distraction. What types of behavior mod have you tried successfully? Sorry this is so long and I hope not too many questions at once. I would really appreciate your input.

Sorry, I wanted you to know I wasn't ignoring you, I just work full time and can't keep up w/ the boards as well as I'd like. SueM already gave you the info on TGM; so I think you're covered there. I don't know if this will work for you, because although DD is extreme ADHD she is High functioning and verbal. DS has a brain malformation and ADHD as well. We fill a hip pack w/ a crunchy snack, mp3 player (with video), small game system (we use didj), ear protectors, fidgets (whatever's popular at the time; dd can't get enough pencil grips at the minute for instance- we put like 10 at a time in there on a trip)sunglasses, etc. we also make a copy of the schedule for each kid, so they know exactly what to expect. before they could read, I made a visual schedule every ride in order plus a symbol for bathroom breaks, meals, snacks, etc. my kids do a lot better if they know exactly what to expect. we watched youtube videos- trying to find them with video of the ride queue so they could see what to expect there as well. always we use a stroller w/ a canopy that goes way down if they're overstimmed. we also practice social stories and waiting games at home or places like dr's offices, and we play the same games while waiting at WDW. there are lots of us around here, so please don't hesitate to ask any questions you may have.- and no, it's never easy. I tell my kids the best stuff is worth working for.

 

[koolaidmoms]

I'm hoping that some savvy folks on this board can suggest some interventions for a 5 year old boy who ONLY wants to be the first one in line. I am actually his student teacher, and I know that some experienced people frequent this board. He has an ASD and absolutely flips out if he doesn't get his way. It can definitely disruptive to the rest of the class. He even gets upset when his bus isn't the first bus!

Can anyone suggest some interventions that might work at school, outside of the home, and--to keep this on topic-- at WDW?

TIA for any help!

One of the things my DS's (6) teacher did for him was make charts for EVERYTHING. There is a chart of when everyone's turn for each job in the classroom is - line leader, caboose, lunch ticket counter, office runner, etc... He can look and see when his next time is to do a job. She has made a big deal about how important each job is. If he throws a temper tantrum at school he loses a privilege not only at school but also at home (no tv or computer- whatever seems more important to him that day).

We talk a great deal about taking turns at all times. It is Mommy's turn to go first through the door, then DS and then DD. We mix it up and talk about it constantly.

I have had to leave places when he is so impatient that he could just not wait his turn to use a toy at the childrens museum or turn on the monkey bars at the zoo. Yes, he screamed and cried the whole way out but I refused to give in. For months after all I had to do was say, "Do we need to leave like we did at x?" Every once in awhile he needs a reminder that I am serious and I will leave.

At WDW we use FP as much as possible, a medical stroller (he is a BIG kid) and stroller as wheelchair GAC for him. If we are in a crowded place he throws himself around on the floors, against the walls, other people. It is not fun for anyone around us, him or us. We have found the combination of those three things really help us get through WDW like we have never been able to before.

Hope this helps some.

 

[TinkOhio]

Thanks for all of the wonderful suggestions! I wrote several social stories and am giving them a try. This little guy is very visually oriented, so these might really help. I am also making boardmaker cards very specific to his triggers, laminating them and keep them on rings so that they can be easily carried around.

 

[SueM in MN]

Also - since we are on the subject of social stories and schedules, if you look in post #3 of the disABILITIES FAQs thread, you will find some great great examples of schedules, PECs and other communication aids made by DIS posters. They are a little bit down in post #3, under a heading about Communication Boards and PECs. There are some great social story examples.

 

[clanmcculloch]

Hi! I am not sure if your reply was for me or not, but, a lot of good info nevertheless. The situation with my DS5 is not that he has to be first in line. I don't think he even understands or cares about that. The issue is being at a stand still, such as lines for shows or extremely slow lines. These are the times that he really needs to be cocooned, or redirected if possible. If we can keep him moving, he usually will be OK. His speech at present is very limited, as well as cognition, so explanations of line rules are not something that he really will understand. We use FP as often as possible, but I do need to use GAC as well. (Hopefully I won't be judged to harshly.) We don't seem to have serious problems in common areas. He doesn't have issues with noise or people. It is feeling trapped and confined that causes the most distress for him. (Yes, I know it sounds strange that he likes to be in the stroller.).At the Fort W. pool DH has to be at bottom of the slide and I meet DS at the top to keep him from pushing his way to the front. He doesn't understand yet, although we are trying hard to teach him, that breaking in line is wrong. He only understands that he wants to slide. I may give TGM a try. Thanks for the tip. There are never any easy answers are there!?

I was actually responding to the OP but kind of with general ideas that I was hoping could also help others. Just to be clear, I was in no way trying to suggest that a GAC is an inapropriate tool. It has made our trips to WDW possible and I would never judge anybody for using one. We do use TGM and it has made such a difference in our trips. The GAC is a great tool which we will likely always use but TGM has made much more of an impact/improvement on our WDW trips than the GAC ever could. Anybody who would judge somebody for using a GAC has clearly never lived with somebody with a special need.

That feeling of being trapped is HUGE and something that the GAC can definitely help. Standing in the regular lines will almost definitely trigger this kind of anxiety in somebody who is prone to it. The alternate waiting areas for rides and shows that have them is perfect for this type of anxiety. Unfortunately though, the FP line won't necessarily be sufficient since sometimes even the FP line can take a long time. That's where a good touring plan like TGM or Ridemax can make a difference. If the waits in line are short to begin with because you know where to be at the right times then he won't have to wait long to get through the line. You say that the crowds don't cause problems for him but what you may not be realizing is that on a high crowd day, cutting through that huge massive crowd of people is still being crowded in with everybody and can add to the already building anxiety. Having lots of room to move around between rides helps decompress. Scheduling time to be able to jump around, run, etc without having to worry about running into wall to wall people does make a difference. Again, I'm not discouraging you from getting the GAC bacause from what you've described your son can really benefit from it. What I am say is that a good touring plan can make a HUGE difference in addition to the GAC and in fact can be a very important tool in your overall arsenal of tools.

Because your son is so young and he does well with being cocooned, I would strongly suggest the stroller as a wheelchair tag for him. Bring his favourite blanket or cocooning thing (whatever he likes being wrapped in) and leave it in the basket under the stroller so he can wrap himself. The stroller alone might be enough of a place to escape to but that comfort object might give him that extra anxiety shield that he needs.

It's not strange at all that he likes being in his stroller yet hates to be confined. He's in control of his space in his stroller plus he's getting the deep pressure sensory input on his back and legs from the stroller. Standing in a confined space is not of his own choice and he's getting no deep pressure sensory inputs so his anxiety just escallates. It makes perfect sense to me. It's completely "normal" for an ASD child.

 

[kampfirekim]

I just wanted to give a great big thank you to everyone for all of your advice. I did learn a couple of new things to try. Overall, it sounds like we're all doing a lot of similar things. It helps to know I've been on the right track though. I hope I didn't make it sound like DS doesn't have have many positives. His cognition is low in some areas, but, he is extremely bright in others. He's very affectionate and good humored. Did I mention he's a runner!? And a very fast one at that! I could still use some help there. You can't take your eyes (and most of the time your hands) off him for a speck of a millisecond or he is GONE. That can also be a prob at WDW when not confined in a stroller. Any suggestions? Never mind the tether straps. He will not tolerate that. HELLLLLPPP!

 

[SueM in MN]

Did I mention he's a runner!? And a very fast one at that! I could still use some help there. You can't take your eyes (and most of the time your hands) off him for a speck of a millisecond or he is GONE. That can also be a prob at WDW when not confined in a stroller. Any suggestions? Never mind the tether straps. He will not tolerate that. HELLLLLPPP!

One of the companies listed in post #2 of the disABILITIES FAQs thread that rents special needs strollers also rents GPS 'child finder' sets. You might want to look into renting one of those systems; at least if he ran, you would be able to find him quickly.

 

[kampfirekim]

One of the companies listed in post #2 of the disABILITIES FAQs thread that rents special needs strollers also rents GPS 'child finder' sets. You might want to look into renting one of those systems; at least if he ran, you would be able to find him quickly.

We considered purchasing a child finder device last yr, but I had completely forgotten about that option. Thanks bunches for the reminder! That idea needs to be revisited. DS doesn't necessarily need a s/n stroller only a BIG one as he has outgrown the standard ones you find in most stores. Does anyone know if there are any affordable ones out there? The ones I have found so far were ridiculously expensive.

 

[SueM in MN]

We considered purchasing a child finder device last yr, but I had completely forgotten about that option. Thanks bunches for the reminder! That idea needs to be revisited. DS doesn't necessarily need a s/n stroller only a BIG one as he has outgrown the standard ones you find in most stores. Does anyone know if there are any affordable ones out there? The ones I have found so far were ridiculously expensive.

Special Needs strollers are probably the only ones that would fit your child (or fit for long). They are very expensive.
I suggest AdaptiveMall.com as a good place to look at a variety of options out there.
Some people have found one on ebay and many people have been able to cover a special needs stroller with insurance. If insurance won't pay, if you have Health Savings Account, this would be something you could buy with that account.
You would need a doctor's prescription and a justification of need, but safety related to impulsive behavior would be a medical need.

 

[dancer4life22]

ok i might not be any help at all because i wasnt even looking to post here i just looked. anywayy...

try to make waiting in line a game. i remember being little and wanting to be first. ALL little kids want to be first. say something like "there getting the ride ready JUST for us so that we can have lots of fun" that always made me happy!

try bringing games or food. make a rule like "if you can go through 5 lines without complaining you get a piece of candy". (bring small candy!) something like that..

 

[lucigo]

I also have a child with autism who is obscessed with being first. This has been going on for about three years now. (He is 6). The first thing we had to do was to limit the amount of time he spent playing certain video games. Mario Kart, F-Zero, any type of racing/competition game only made it worse. We started only letting him play games like the Nintendo Dogs and Disney Friends and that helped some, but I admit we also used the games he loved so much as rewards for things like potty training along the way. Recently he figured out that in order to "win" at golf you have to get the lowest score, not the highest, and that was very interesting for him.

The next step was to work on turn taking games with other kids. He gets very upset when he doesn't win, and we have had to force him to tell his friends "good job" when they win and not stomp off and quit. Its a work in progress.

This "first" thing can control every fascet of the day. He wants to be first to the bus. First to the seat. First to get his name on the paper. First to finish each spelling word. If they are singing a song that involves sitting, standing, clapping, he wants to be first to do each of those things. It can get insane.

His teacher picks her battles, and has a visual schedule for line leader. Other times during the day she will reward good behavior with letting him do something first, but he can also end up in time out if it gets to be too much.

Recently I got a call from her because he watched her grade another child's paper that he was in competition with, and then said to him, ha ha you missed one and I got 100%. He went to time out and then she called me excited that he said something that sophistocated. Only mother's of kids with autism can understand why we actually sometimes are happy when our child gets in trouble.

The good news is that the chance of being first has been a great motivator. If you dress yourself this morning you can be first on the bus, etc. It has also lead to our first spontaneous conversation about what he did at school. He came home and told me, Mommy I was first in line at school today!

Good luck with your "first" child!

 

[kampfirekim]

Special Needs strollers are probably the only ones that would fit your child (or fit for long). They are very expensive.

I was afraid of that. We're going to be at WDW in July/Aug and I am trying to get all of these issues ironed out ASAP. I know that this is not do-able for everyone, but we like to take our camper to Fort Wilderness which allows us to stay longer, keep DS in as familiar environment as possible and give us "off days" to decompress. The running and jumping space helps a great deal with the proprioceptive stimulus (hope I spelled that right) he continually seeks. DS has never liked to wear clothes, but the prob is getting worse. I do have some concerns regarding that. Can anyone relate?
Special thanks to you SueM in MN. You've been a great help!

 

[TinkOhio]

I have no experience with this issue, but if he likes a special character or color, maybe you can let him pick out his own bathing shirt and shorts? Perhaps he'll be more likely to keep them on if they have his favorite character on them?

 

[kampfirekim]

I have no experience with this issue, but if he likes a special character or color, maybe you can let him pick out his own bathing shirt and shorts? Perhaps he'll be more likely to keep them on if they have his favorite character on them?

Thanks for the reply, but I think the issue is that he wants to be "bucket nekkid" as DS6 used to say when younger. He doesn't care what character is on the front. I don't know if this will help anyone in same boat, but I have noticed that he will wear shorts if I don't put undies on him. With him it's one or the other. I guess I will leave the U/W home this vacation! One less thing to pack. He will wear a bathing suit, maybe I can find some that look like shorts. (Very quirky, this one is!)