From where do you get your optimism?

[mitros]

You are soooo right!

 

[HB2K]

I'm not willing to debate whether a leaking monorail roof should be the dirge of any optimism

Try standing under that leaking monorail roof with a pregnant wife and a 4 year old...during a monsoon style rain storm.

It's not the roof, it's what it symbolizes. Why wait to repair things? The old Disney would have patched the roof before it got this bad.

The new Disney lets it get as close to collapsing before repairing it.

 

[Bstanley]

Well after many thousands of words the semantic content of this thread is simply choosing between one of the following 2 propositions:

A. I cannot be optimistic because The Big ME and his MBA henchmen are running 'Disney'.

B. I can be optimistic because my 'Disney' experiences continue to be 'Magical'.

So basically The DIS can save some money and sell two of the cars...

 

[mjstaceyuofm]

raidermatt asks:
If I may paraphrase the Baron, the question is more, what is it that you see in the recent additions/creations/policies that has made you optimistic that Disney will continue to create Magic on the same level as they did in decades past?

I see we’ve been asked to get back on track. Looking for concrete evidence… The smoking gun as some may say…

First off, I’ve been out of the conversation for a while and have some responding to do. I am one of those persons who scrapped my annual trip to WDW in favor of another destination to show my displeasure. There was no compelling reason (for my family & I) to return in 2002, so we went to Vegas and moved our DVC trip to 2003 when there will be more options in the parks. To re-iterate, our vacations are not 100% park based, but they are an integral part and while I may spend the day at the pool with the kids or shopping at DTD, at night I’d like the option to go to the parks for dinner, or one last ride, or to get a Mickey ice cream bar and soak up atmosphere. Sadly, those options have become incredibly restricted lately.

…recent additions/creations/policies that has made you optimistic that Disney will continue to create Magic on the same level as they did in decades past?

There’s a few:

1) Addition of new rides (M:S, Mickey’s Philharmagic, ToT4).
2) Expanded park events such as Food & Wine Festival, Halloween Party, Christmas Party, etc.
3) Re-instatement of EE.
4) Rehab of Crystal Palace.
5) this is a big IF The potential for high-speed rail directly from the airport to WDW property.

This last one could really force Disney (WDW more appropriately) to put a much needed investment into the property’s transportation system and the master plan for the property itself. It is a very large “IF”, but it does fill me with some sense of optimism…

 

[SnackyStacky]

Again, though, this is why I've never given wdwblues.com a shred of credibility. They'll take single instances and extrapolate them across the whole. While I wasn't around WDW in 1978 or 1988, I'm sure that leaky roofs or chipped paint occured back then too.

Lots of single instances added together add up for a WHOLE lotta looking bad!

The next time you're there, in the Magic Kingdom, take a look at:

1.) The waterfall outside of Space Mountain's entrance. The purple paint is chipping, the fountain is moldy and disgusting, there's cracks all OVER that area

2.) The walls inside of Buzz Lightyear. Not the ones with decorative stuff on them, but the one you look at right as you walk through the door. Check it out once you're on the other side. Paint is chipping, HUGE chunks of plaster are gone. Also, check out the ride vehicles! When you have blacklight sensitive paint with lots of black light, it stands to reason that there probably shouldn't BE any paint chips because they stand out even more

3.) The walls on the queue area of Splash Mountain. Gum stuck all over them! Think that's being too picky? Check out those handle bars. EASILY preventable with some warm water, Clorox, and a rag every night after closing.

4.) El Pirata y el Perico....there was seagull crap EVERYWHERE. I'm not talking about a pile here or there, I'm talking about an entire planter looking as though it had been white washed!

5.) Check out the bathing elephants on the Jungle Cruise. Ever see mold and algae growing on an elephant?

I can go on. But that wasn't the point of this debate. Just throwing in an aside!

 

[HB2K]

Scoop,

Just as snacky has illustrated, it isn't just one instance. I could go on and on.

Here's another...how about the lego dragon at the marketplace? It looks disgusting. How about the lego dino which used to blow bubbles? Guess what, it doesn't (or it didn't during my trip).

One instance doesn't make a snow storm. It's a continued batch of instances which makes an avalance.

The monorail station was the worst. I don't know how long they've been working on it...but to have it to the point that rain POURS into the open monorails & all over guests waiting for a train is un acceptable...especially for 6 months.

I don't look for the bad stuff. It's just hard to miss.

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

While I wasn't around WDW in 1978 or 1988, I'm sure that leaky roofs or chipped paint occurred back then too.

I wouldn't bet on that if I were you, $coop!

And how can you be sure of something you were not there to witness? It is just that kind of attention to maintenance and detail that used to set Disney far ahead of every other company in the amusement park business.

Unfortunately, you have 'discovered' Disney® when there is not much tangible between them and their competition. That’s too bad, for two reasons. First, you will NEVER have the pleasure of knowing the Disney I knew in 1978. And second I have to keep telling you that, least you think that it all started in 1984 with rat instead of a mouse!!

Frankly though, I defer to guys like Safari Steve who are there day in and day out and I'd like to pose the question to Steve or any other Cast Member---

How is maintenance these days? The same? Worse? Better?

How ridiculous!! Better than when!!?? Find me a cast member with a memory long enough to really do a fair comparison and maybe I’ll listen. Until then you’re doing nothing but comparing Ei$ner to Ei$ner (for lack of a better term). Not fair and really not very relevant at all!!!

 

[curtisl]

Now some of you folks are making me feel old, and I'm only 37! I remember when I used to go to DL and it was rare when you DIDN'T see a CM walking around with a broom and a sweep bucket on a pole grabbing trash as soon or BEFORE it hit the ground. One CM was so dedicated, he stood in line for a ride just to collect trash!

-Curtis


ETA - because I can't spell.

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

curtisl,

Same thing used to happen at WDW as well. It's funny though. If you listen to the $coop crowd, it never happened, just because they didn't see it!!

And no matter how many times I tell them it did, they still don't believe it. Hmmmm. Maybe they will believe you!

 

[curtisl]

Landbaron,

With these folks, even if I dug up my family's old 8mm films of DL and could find such footage, they would probably treat it like the Loc Ness Monster! "It's a video trick, that didn't really happen!"

 

[Testtrack321]

To answer the thread question: I'm born with it.

 

[Walt's Frozen Head]

I think answers have varied widely because of the different ways we each answered the unasked question, optimism for what?

To apply a specific example that has come up on another thread, suppose we get the announcement tomorrow: It's A Small World, The Ride will be "retired" and the building "repurposed."

The Darkest Days of the Car Wars return to the board until the replacement is announced: walk through a dry "Canal of Dreamy Nations;" showcasing the currently hottest selling childrens toys and fast foods from around the world. And some currently politically troublesome nations' displays are removed entirely and replaced with "National Dreams Book-Reading Vistas."

If what you look for in WDW is mostly shopping, eating, and having your little one's attention occupied while you read a book, you'll have reason to be delighted in such an eventuality.

If what you appreciated about IASW was the way new technology and time-tested standards were woven together to tell a story so spectacularly that we are still talking about it decades after it was conceived and built, you'll have reason to be bitterly disappointed at a childhood friend and monument to doing things Disney being sacrificed to moving more product.

Optimistic that Eisner and/or his successor will finagle Disney's numbers into a pleasing presentation of capitalism is one thing. Optimistic that there'll be another story-telling block-buster that has the kind of effect on its audience as IASW had when it was new, is quite another.

-WFH

 

[Bstanley]

Herr Baron and curtisl,

I believe you when you describe CMs doing special things years ago - because I still see it, today. And IF you are ready to move into the 21st Century I would be happy to send you DV tapes of CMs doing similar things today that help make my trips continue to be Magical. Fortunately for 'Disnoids' the entire 120 thousand person Disney workforce is NOT made up entirely of Big ME cloned MBAs looking to screw the customers through hypnotizing them by repetitions of the the Holy Walt's name.

And while it is possible that the Herr Baron covered literally every square inch of Disneyland with his trusty Brownie on his visits back during the years when it was REALLY Magical I suspect that like most things viewed through the lens of time the images are somewhat distorted.

I for one find the following thoroughly Magical: AK, AKL, The Studios, WL, Test Track, Dixie Landings, Splash Mountain, Illuminations, Fantasmic (WDW) etc, etc, ad nauseum. Just because the Nattering Nabobs of Negativity say that they are not Magical won't change that millions of other people do.

Can WDW be operated with more 'Magic' - certainly! Was Walt more concerned with offering more to the customer and less concerned with making money and personal aggrandizement than The Big ME? LOL! DUH!

I repeat - I am optimistic because WDW is still full of Magic and I believe it can only get even better once the stockholders find a more suitable CEO than The Big ME.

 

[Sarangel]

One CM was so dedicated, he stood in line for a ride just to collect trash!

OK, here's one for the optimism camp, they still do this! (At least as recently as a couple of months ago when I was at DL).

I know it's really easy when you're as committed to an idea as much as we all are to the idea of Disney (without the ®) to see all the little tiny details, both good and bad. What we have to hope for is that those small details add up to a good thing instead of a bad thing. Right now, under Eisner's command, the parks and the animation unit (core products for Disney and Disney®) seem to be waning.

What optimism *I* have is based on the hope that management will start seeing the signs that we fanatics have been seeing for months (or in some cases years) and decide to change the pattern for the better.

Sarangel

 

[SnackyStacky]

Originally posted by Bstanley
Fortunately for 'Disnoids' the entire 120 thousand person Disney workforce is NOT made up entirely of Big ME cloned MBAs looking to screw the customers through hypnotizing them by repetitions of the the Holy Walt's name.

I'm one of those naysayers, so even though this wasn't directed at me I'm going to chime in here and say that you're right. There are cast members that are top notch. The problem is that each time those top notch-ers become fewer and fewer.

I for one find the following thoroughly Magical: AK, AKL, The Studios, WL, Test Track, Dixie Landings, Splash Mountain, Illuminations, Fantasmic (WDW) etc, etc, ad nauseum. Just because the Nattering Nabobs of Negativity say that they are not Magical won't change that millions of other people do.

I think it had been thoroughly agreed, by EVERYBODY, that there is still magic at those places. Nobody said there is no magic in those things. It's the continued diminishment in the products they put forth (or actually, DON'T put forth in quite a few cases) that are cause for worry. Is Animal Kingdom magical? Sure! But it couls have been more. And it's that "could have been" that causes concern.

Can WDW be operated with more 'Magic' - certainly! Was Walt more concerned with offering more to the customer and less concerned with making money and personal aggrandizement than The Big ME? LOL! DUH!

I repeat - I am optimistic because WDW is still full of Magic and I believe it can only get even better once the stockholders find a more suitable CEO than The Big ME.

I will agree with everything you said. The key point you made that I'd like to reiterate is:

can only get even better once the stockholders find a more suitable CEO than The Big ME.

because it CAN only get better if Eisner leaves. If he doesn't, I can't be optimistic about Disney World's future. And just so we're entirely clear, I still think it's magical too. Otherwise I wouldn't keep going.

 

[Bstanley]

Wow, it's like Deja-Vu all over again. Like I said - Pick one.

A. I cannot be optimistic because The Big ME and his MBA henchmen are running 'Disney'.

B. I can be optimistic because my 'Disney' experiences continue to be 'Magical'.

Now - the following really confuses me...

because it CAN only get better if Eisner leaves. If he doesn't, I can't be optimistic about Disney World's future.

Then shouldn't you be wildly optimistic? I mean really - In the past 19 years we have never been closer to The BIG ME's departure then we are right now (except maybe when he had his bypass surgery)!

 

[SnackyStacky]

Pick one

I pick A. BUT that doesn't mean that it's any less magical. Your cut and dry options make it seem like those that would pick A find no magic, as your second to last post would suggest.

Then shouldn't you be wildly optimistic? I mean really - In the past 19 years we have never been closer to The BIG ME's departure then we are right now (except maybe when he had his bypass surgery)!

Perhaps we're close, but optimism isn't directly on the front for me right now. I'll believe it when I see it. That's all I'm saying.

 

[Another Voice]

"Then shouldn't you be wildly optimistic? I mean really - In the past 19 years we have never been closer to The BIG ME's departure then we are right now (except maybe when he had his bypass surgery)!"

The really big question is whether Disney will still exist when Eisner exits. The way he would prefer to go is by selling the company and cashing out all that stock. And in reality we are much further from Eisner's departure now than in anytime in the last five years.

 

[raidermatt]

because it CAN only get better if Eisner leaves. If he doesn't, I can't be optimistic about Disney World's future.

Oh, it can ALWAYS get worse. As poorly suited as we may think Eisner is, there is alwasy somebody worse out there.

So while I THINK that if Eisner were to go we would have reason for optimism, its certainly not a guarantee.

Then shouldn't you be wildly optimistic? I mean really - In the past 19 years we have never been closer to The BIG ME's departure then we are right now (except maybe when he had his bypass surgery)!

Only because we all know there is some date in the future that he will leave, and therefore by definition, every minute gets us closer to that time. But, really, we don't know that we are all that close. To use some military terms, he is entrenched, and he is fortifying his position.

Really, as of now, who is going to force him out? Nobody holds enough stock to really cause any problems. The board is littered with Eisner's cronies. Is Eisner's architect, or Sidney Pottier, really going to oust him?

And we have to remember that many of those on the Street applauded the cost-cutting and trimmed capital investment. If Eisner goes, how can we be sure they won't want more of the same in these areas?

 

[Bstanley]

Oh I don't know AV - at the least if The BIG ME does manage to find somebody to cough up 25 Big ones (I mean REALLY big Billionare ones he'll be handing over the reins to someone else.

Who knows maybe the new owners would sell off ABC and all the other millstones so they could 'focus on Disney's core business'.

My personal opinion only - to save his second point of contact (backside) up to this point I imagine The Big ME has probably called in just about all the chits he had. Even Sidney Poitier has got to be thinking about whether it's time for a change at this point - maybe he's not sure - but he's thinking about it.

Now, where's my crystal ball when I need it?