Friendly Warning for those buying resale

[CMNJ]

Make sure that the broker you use is verifying point status of contracts before listing them. Most brokers (to the best of my knowledge) do but this is very important for the buyer to double check for their own protection. We recently went to ROFR on a contract that was incorrectly listed as having points coming in the upcoming UY. However 3 weeks after making the offer we were notified it did not have ANY of the points the seller had indicated. This was discovered by Disney during ROFR. We were able to them cancel the sale as the information provided and in the contract did not match the true point status but it was a waste of 3 weeks time and had to then get the escrow money returned (though Magic Title was great and immediately sent our refund). We were fortunate as I had been keeping an eye on the market and didn't really miss any great contracts during those 3 weeks but that may not be the case for others. Due your due diligence and make sure the broker has done theirs

 

[Missyrose]

Make sure that the broker you use is verifying point status of contracts before listing them. Most brokers (to the best of my knowledge) do but this is very important for the buyer to double check for their own protection. We recently went to ROFR on a contract that was incorrectly listed as having points coming in the upcoming UY. However 3 weeks after making the offer we were notified it did not have ANY of the points the seller had indicated. This was discovered by Disney during ROFR. We were able to them cancel the sale as the information provided and in the contract did not match the true point status but it was a waste of 3 weeks time and had to then get the escrow money returned (though Magic Title was great and immediately sent our refund). We were fortunate as I had been keeping an eye on the market and didn't really miss any great contracts during those 3 weeks but that may not be the case for others. Due your due diligence and make sure the broker has done theirs

The broker can only really go by what the seller tells them. They don't ask Disney for the official estoppel on the contract until just before closing.

 

[CMNJ]

The broker can only really go by what the seller tells them. They don't ask Disney for the official estoppel on the contract until just before closing.

I respectfully disagree. The company we are now using verifies the points prior to listing contracts on their website (as they have in the past when we previously used them). I would think it would be very simple for brokers to require the seller to take a screen shot of their online account (via the member dashboard) to verify the current point status at the time of listing. This would ensure there is no misunderstanding between the broker and seller as to what the current status of the points on the contract. Obviously a dishonest seller could later use points without updating the listing (which would later be discovered at ROFR/estoppel) but it would ensure an honest seller hadn't simply made a mistake in their communication. As I stated I don't know if the seller in my case was trying to pull a fast one or was simply uneducated in terms of UY/the listing the broker had for their contract. Had the broker required such information from the seller and it was correctly listed we wouldn't have wasted our time, the seller's time, the broker's time, or the title company's time as we NEVER would have placed on offer on this contract.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Unless the broker were verifying every day that the points were still the same this could happen to any broker any time. Listing a contract does not suddenly restrict an owner from using, renting or transferring. The only actual verification can come from Disney and that is what will come out either in ROFR or estoppel.

 

[cvjw]

I just looked into selling a contract with a broker who requires a screenshot of the point balances for the contract. I could send them a screenshot showing full points and then transfer all the points out. This would circumvent the "confirmed" status of the points.

Only Disney can fully confirm the point status of a contract. Sorry this happened to you. Hopefully your next seller will be a truthful one.

 

[CMNJ]

Oh I fully agree that a dishonest seller could use the points while in the process of selling. I actually stated that in my post above. However I would think an honest seller would update their listing if hey chose to use points. As I stated in my earlier posts the broker did not in any way confirm current points prior to listing contracts and from my understanding the points were simply never there when my contract was listed (and the same thing happened to another disboards member with the same broker and heller). It is not clear if the seller was outright lying or misunderstood the status of the points on their contract. My point in posting this warning is to make others aware of the discrepancy of verification prior to listing between brokers. I suspect there are honest owners out there who truly don't understand what they own and thus may provide incorrect point information if not required to submit it. It was an unfortunate waste of time for us but cost us nothing other than postage to mail our contract/escrow. Others may not have the luxury of cancelling the sale and moving on quickly as we did.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Here's a different POV. I was selling a contract and the contract asked if I had any existing reservations and if so, was I willing to cancel. I did have one and intended to use it if the contract didn't sell and I provided the dates and also properly indicated that I would be willing to cancel so there wasn't a need for a delayed closing. The broker listed it with all the points that would be there after the cancellation.

So, we get an agreement. We're still in the contract cancellation period (and I have had buyers back out) and I was always given the impression from people stating on these boards that DVC would cancel the reservation at closing or some point. The broker also had never said anything about my needing to cancel the reservation immediately or at what point I would need to. So, I get a nasty call and email from the broker telling me that they heard back from DVC a few days after it was sent to ROFR and the points I had listed were not all there and we were going to have to modify the agreement.

Sometimes it isn't the owner and after that I will never assume that it is. It might be, but it might not be.

 

[argmjs]

I had a similar situation where the points in the contract were not there and it was discovered during the ROFR process. Only to find out that the points were not verified when the contact was listed on their web page. Wasted not only 3 weeks but our ability to book at the resort we wanted during the home resort preference window for an upcoming trip. Going forward, I will only put offers on a contract where the points were verified at listing. I realize that owners may not know how many points are left, a significant other might use the points and not tell the other person, Disney errors, etc. But if the broker verifies this information with a screen shot at listing it should reduce those situations. The closing process (ROFR, estoppel, member number) takes long enough without adding the risk of point errors/misunderstandings to the mix.

 

[LAX]

For those of you that experienced a discrepancy between how many points were advertised and how many were available after verification by estoppel, did your contract have a clause where you as the buyer will be reimbursed some amount of money per point missing? My contract did and it was actually pretty generous (ie: more than what I would have gotten through rental). I almost wished there was a discrepancy as I would have come out ahead using the reimbursement to make a rental reservation. Hence, I was never too worried about a discrepancy, but of course I wasn't waiting for those points to make a reservation.


LAX

 

[nabi]

I have to view my contracts multiple times to realise what is there and how to use, sometimes. A screenshot would work for those foggy moments!

 

[CMNJ]

For those of you that experienced a discrepancy between how many points were advertised and how many were available after verification by estoppel, did your contract have a clause where you as the buyer will be reimbursed some amount of money per point missing? My contract did and it was actually pretty generous (ie: more than what I would have gotten through rental). I almost wished there was a discrepancy as I would have come out ahead using the reimbursement to make a rental reservation. Hence, I was never too worried about a discrepancy, but of course I wasn't waiting for those points to make a reservation.


LAX

No my contract did not. FWIW the company we are now using (and used previously) also does not have that clause. Which company (if you don't mind me asking) has that in their contract? Seems like a good idea.

 

[Matty B13]

No my contract did not. FWIW the company we are now using (and used previously) also does not have that clause. Which company (if you don't mind me asking) has that in their contract? Seems like a good idea.

Our contract has this stipulation as well, DVC Resale Market is our company.

 

[CMNJ]

Our contract has this stipulation as well, DVC Resale Market is our company.

Seems like a good idea-wish they all did

 

[Matty B13]

Seems like a good idea-wish they all did

It was $18 per point penalty the seller would pay the buyer if their were missing points. Our first contract didn't have this clause. I was very happy when I saw this in our second contract.

 

[CMNJ]

Wow that is a steep penalty-I wonder if they had multiple problems with sellers using points that were supposed to be part of the sale.
I know the timeshare store didn't have anything like that in their contracts in the past, nor does the broker we are currently using, or the one we initially had this issue with. It would be great if they all went with a similar clause in their contracts.

 

[Matty B13]

You could try to add it to the boiler plate DVC contract from any broker as an addendum that you add to the contract. Not sure how it would go over with the broker or the seller though, and might slow down the process, but would keep the seller honest.

 

[CMNJ]

You could try to add it to the boiler plate DVC contract from any broker as an addendum that you add to the contract. Not sure how it would go over with the broker or the seller though, and might slow down the process, but would keep the seller honest.

Haha based on our experience in the past asking the Disney resale brokers to make any changes or additions to their contracts gets you nowhere. We wanted some minor clarification of details in a contract with the timeshare store before and they said absolutely no changes to their standard contract. Recently we had a similar experience with our current contract with a different broker-no changes/clarifications to their standard contract.

 

[Matty B13]

Haha based on our experience in the past asking the Disney resale brokers to make any changes or additions to their contracts gets you nowhere. We wanted some minor clarification of details in a contract with the timeshare store before and they said absolutely no changes to their standard contract. Recently we had a similar experience with our current contract with a different broker-no changes/clarifications to their standard contract.

That's to bad, because I think adding this clause to all resale contracts would go a long way to keep the seller honest and give the buyer piece of mind. Can't believe a broker wouldn't want to put this clause in. Oh well, buyer beware.

 

[sndral]

It was $18 per point penalty the seller would pay the buyer if their were missing points. Our first contract didn't have this clause. I was very happy when I saw this in our second contract.

I wonder what would happen if that clause kicked in - the price per point would change, would you have to go through ROFR a second time?

 

[Matty B13]

I wonder what would happen if that clause kicked in - the price per point would change, would you have to go through ROFR a second time?

I think it is a penalty paid to the buyer at closing, but doesn't change the price per point. But I hope I never have to find out, rather a resale go smoothly.