Freedom to Marry Day Protest Planned

[LuvDuke]

However, many Christians have also been taught that marriage is between a man and a women and that it is sacred. Many Christians also believe their religion tells them that homosexuality is wrong. How then do you expect them to turn around and support gay marriage when all their values tell them they cannot?

Remember, as I just said, it is not Christians all of a sudden trying to ban gays from marrying. In fact, they don’t want to change anything. It is the LEFT who want to change the definition of a word which has meant the same thing for hundreds of years.

How now, all of a sudden, in 2007, are we ‘standing in judgment of others’?

Who cares what you've been taught or what you believe. It's irrelevant to the issue of civil rights. You don't get to vote on granting civil rights. Those are inalienable rights we're born with.

 

[LuvDuke]

Is the new conservative mantra....."Less government.....(except when we are
trying to impose our holier than thou moral authority) ?

Oh no, that's the same old-same old conservative mantra. They've been pushing that BS for generations.

The only "less government" conservatives believe in is less government for the corporations. But when it comes to your private life, your bedroom, your uterus, your books, your internet, etc., they can't come up with enough government.

 

[JennyMominRI]

I'm one of the changed opinion squad too. I started out following the herd on these issues and then when I started to really think about the consequences of allowing government to have that much intrusion in people's lives, it changed my thought process. Civil law does NOTHING to stop me or anyone else from following the teachings of my faith.

Keep government out of religion and religion out of government!

I would take it even farther to say that it is more pleasing to G-d when we choose his way with free will than because something Is law...I used to pork analogy once...Pork is not Kosher..O Jews don't eat it..Pork is everywhere in this country..It's flashed on the TV every single day. Choosing not to eat it,(Or lobster or a cheeseburger) etc. means more to G-d than if I live in a country where pork and lobster are illegal...
I think Jews have less of an issue with not imposing religious beliefs on the general public...We know darn well there isn't going to be a ban on Bacon Double Cheeseburgers in the US,and we don't feel we are condoning an *abomination* by not making them illegal

 

[LuvDuke]

I’m not sure what you’re referring to, but I don’t support failed marriages, divorces, spousal abuse, and other such things… To your second point, I wasn’t talking about the government in that particular case, I was pointing out that if those who do not approve of gay marriage are ‘right wing nutjobs’, then the majority of the population would be right wing nutjobs.



I don’t think people are quite that stupid…I think most are quite capable of having a well thought through opinion on the matter.



But it didn’t exist in Massachusetts until recently when the libs in that state got their way. What does marriage have to be between a man and a woman? Marriage has to be between a man and a woman because that is what marriage is! Seriously, I know you’re ‘garriage’ thing was a joke…but I know a lot of people opposing gay marriage who wouldn’t necessarily be opposed to something like that. Many folks don’t really care about gay unions, though they may personally find homosexuality ‘wrong’, but to many the issue is about changing the word ‘marriage’ is the biggest thing (kind of like a “come up with your own word” sort of thing…you know, marriage could continue to be a man and a woman, garraige could be two same sex couples! LOL). But really, marriage means a lot to many people and it is not just something you can change casually without people getting emotional and upset.



Once again, the only reason Gay marriage is law in Massachusetts is because the Liberals there got their way and just recently changed it. Conservatives are trying to reverse it back to its original and true meaning.



What ‘right’ is fighting to be protected? A right that has never existed? Not to mention, ‘marriage’ isn’t even a right!



Well so much for being tolerant. Not only are you intolerant of my own religious and personal beliefs, you seem to be intolerant of all Christian beliefs…unless calling them ‘fairytales’ is what you call being ‘tolerant’…?



I’m not imposing any belief on anyone. They are imposing it on us by trying to change OUR definition. As I said, come up with your own ‘union’/name- but ‘marriage’ is copyrighted and already defined: 1 man, 1 woman.



Epcot has evolved and changed throughout its history, but who would support one day declaring “Future World” as “Jungle Land”? There is a difference between evolving, and completely changing the idea and meaning of a word.



Listen…we could go on all day (and all night, and probably all of tomorrow and the next day!). I know this argument has been brought up time and time again here on the DIS; yet, I don’t know one person who has reversed their position on the subject. My own personal and religious views mean that I cannot support changing the definition of marriage. I also feel, as many do, that homosexuality is wrong. I really don’t like the ‘evil’ rhetoric from the left because it’s just completely false…I think supporting strong families, healthy children, and strong values is a good thing. I actually do know gay people and I don’t have much of a problem with them as people…but my beliefs mean that I cannot support changing the definition of marriage for them. We’re just going to have to accept each other’s differences and opinions.

You can't make this stuff up.

 

[Fitswimmer]

I would take it even farter to say that it is more pleasing to G-d when we choose his way with free will than because something Is law...I used to pork analogy once...Pork is not Kosher..O Jews don't eat it..Pork is everywhere in this country..It's flashed on the TV every single day. Choosing not to eat it,(Or lobster or a cheeseburger) etc. means more to G-d than if I live in a country where pork and lobster are illegal...
I think Jews have less of an issue with not imposing religious beliefs on the general public...We know darn well there isn't going to be a ban on Bacon Double Cheeseburgers in the US,and we don't feel we are condoning an *abomination* by not making them illegal

That reminds me of Lent when I was a kid. I used to try telling my Mom I was giving up Snickers. She always made me pick something else, because I'm allergic to peanuts and can't eat them anyway, so it was no real sacrifice.

It's easier to obey a rule when there are negative legal or physical consequences for disobeying it. I know we were taught as kids that as Catholics we were not to completely assimilate into the culture and that we should expect the culture to be different from what God has taught us.

 

[mamaprincess]

Keep government out of religion and religion out of government!

Amen!!! It really is that simple. This is not a religious issue.

 

[Laura]

You can't make this stuff up.

Your response is so much more succinct than mine was.

 

[LuvDuke]

Keep government out of religion and religion out of government!

Exactly! Too many religious are very happy to accept the favors of government ............. this government. And the one thing you can take to the bank is political winds change. No one stays in power forever. One day these religious groups and organizations are going to open the door to government and they are NOT going to like who's standing there.

Government comes with strings attached and the puppeteers change sooner or later. If you want to keep religion free, keep the government out of it.

 

[toto2]

I know that what I posted about same-sexe weddingis very long , so just to simplify a bit , I will say that in the native american culture , many tribes had same-sex marriage, part of the religion. They have been on the continent way way way longer than us of europeen decent , so in fact , in north america, same-sexe wedding have been part of the traditionnal definiton of marriage by , oh , a few thousand years longer than the our narrow definition !

 

[salmoneous]

Once again, the only reason Gay marriage is law in Massachusetts is because the Liberals there got their way and just recently changed it. Conservatives are trying to reverse it back to its original and true meaning.

You can't use the phrase "once again" unless you are saying the same thing you said before. Before you said gay marriage doesn't exist, that conservatives were fighting to maintain the status quo and that liberals were fighting for change. Now you are saying the exact opposite. You had your basic facts wrong, now you've changed you mind and are correct one point. But not on another. Conservations *aren't* trying to reverse it back to its original and true meaning. They are only trying to undue the changes that help gay people - they want to keep the changes that help straight people.

You have your basic facts wrong about the stability of the institution of marriage. It isn't an unchanged institution - it is constantly changing and evolving. You claim you opposition to gay marriage is that you are opposed to change. But you seem unwilling to address the change that has occurred to marriage that has benefited straight people. Are you opposed to those changes too? Or are you just opposed to changes that help gay people?

Gay marriage discussions almost always boil down to simple discrimination. There are a handful of people opposed to government recognition who are honest about their motivation. They don't like gay people and don't want them to have the same rights they have. Others try to hide behind other justifications.

But those justifications fall apart when you look at how they apply those justifications to straight people. If you really are against gay marriage because you are opposed to changing marriage, then you should be against changes to marriage that help straight people. If you can accept changes that help straights, but not changes that help gays, then your opposition isn't based on change, but is based on discrimination.

 

[Fitswimmer]

Exactly! Too many religious are very happy to accept the favors of government ............. this government. And the one thing you can take to the bank is political winds change. No one stays in power forever. One day these religious groups and organizations are going to open the door to government and they are NOT going to like who's standing there.

Government comes with strings attached and the puppeteers change sooner or later. If you want to keep religion free, keep the government out of it.

I feel that way about most government intervention. When it's something you agree with, then it's fine-but once they're in, they are NEVER getting out. All those things start well intentioned and I usually agree with the starting premise, where I get nervous is when I start asking "What comes next if we allow the government to _____"

 

[RickinNYC]

Holy Mother! This convo is STILL going on?

I have to say it's so amazing to see so many people willing to take a stand against those others who have their own sense of entitlement when it comes to their perceived interpretations of God's word and they insist it should be a part of our government, both on the local, state and federal level. I, as a gay man, thank each and every one of you for your continued support.

The gay population is the minority in the world. We just can't win the fight against inequality in marriage if we were left to our own devices. We most definitely and irrefutably need the support of others if we are to win. If there's no support, it's a losing battle. And it is indeed a battle, one that would repulse me even if I weren't directly impacted.

This type of civil movement did involve black citizens, women, Catholics, Jews, the Italians, the Irish, the Chinese and Japanese, those with disabilities... the list goes on. Civil liberties are for all citizens. Our Constitution lays it out there for all to see.

Inequality is not part of God's word, nor should it ever be a part of the United States. Ever.

And I thank those of you that have come to the forefront and recognize this and are willing to stand next to me, raise your voice, and realize the inequities that are still prevalent in our society today.

 

[Laura]

Anytime, Rick. I think many straights realize it's our friends and family (even possible future children) whom we are fighting for, and that this injustice is unreasonable. I hope you and Joe will be legally married soon.

 

[BuckNaked]

Link sausage
Sausage gravy
Homemade biscuits

Better Rick?

OK, back to the debate

 

[mamaprincess]

Holy Mother! This convo is STILL going on?

I have to say it's so amazing to see so many people willing to take a stand against those others who have their own sense of entitlement when it comes to their perceived interpretations of God's word and they insist it should be a part of our government, both on the local, state and federal level. I, as a gay man, thank each and every one of you for your continued support.

The gay population is the minority in the world. We just can't win the fight against inequality in marriage if we were left to our own devices. We most definitely and irrefutably need the support of others if we are to win. If there's no support, it's a losing battle. And it is indeed a battle, one that would repulse me even if I weren't directly impacted.

This type of civil movement did involve black citizens, women, Catholics, Jews, the Italians, the Irish, the Chinese and Japanese, those with disabilities... the list goes on. Civil liberties are for all citizens. Our Constitution lays it out there for all to see.

Inequality is not part of God's word, nor should it ever be a part of the United States. Ever.

And I thank those of you that have come to the forefront and recognize this and are willing to stand next to me, raise your voice, and realize the inequities that are still prevalent in our society today.

This is all well and good but have you brushed up on your Mimi yet?

 

[LuvDuke]

Holy Mother! This convo is STILL going on?

I have to say it's so amazing to see so many people willing to take a stand against those others who have their own sense of entitlement when it comes to their perceived interpretations of God's word and they insist it should be a part of our government, both on the local, state and federal level. I, as a gay man, thank each and every one of you for your continued support.

The gay population is the minority in the world. We just can't win the fight against inequality in marriage if we were left to our own devices. We most definitely and irrefutably need the support of others if we are to win. If there's no support, it's a losing battle. And it is indeed a battle, one that would repulse me even if I weren't directly impacted.

This type of civil movement did involve black citizens, women, Catholics, Jews, the Italians, the Irish, the Chinese and Japanese, those with disabilities... the list goes on. Civil liberties are for all citizens. Our Constitution lays it out there for all to see.

Inequality is not part of God's word, nor should it ever be a part of the United States. Ever.

And I thank those of you that have come to the forefront and recognize this and are willing to stand next to me, raise your voice, and realize the inequities that are still prevalent in our society today.

The world is changing very quickly, my friend. For far too many years, the nut fringe has been carrying the discussion. That ended on November 7, 2006. And now we're starting to see issues popup that we thought were dead: eg. universal healthcare.

People are taking a good long look at who's been fighting tooth and nail to fight civil rights for gay people. And they don't like what they see. They look at Deadeye Dick Cheney's family situation and the new grandchild coming along and they wonder why Cheney thinks him and his family are the only ones entitled to privacy.

The American people, above all, believe in fairness. To condemn, to the back of the bus, an entire group of people who pay their taxes and fight and die on the battlefied is an insult to that sense of fairness.

It's a new day.

 

[crazyforgoofy]

I'm one of the changed opinion squad too. I started out following the herd on these issues and then when I started to really think about the consequences of allowing government to have that much intrusion in people's lives, it changed my thought process. Civil law does NOTHING to stop me or anyone else from following the teachings of my faith.

Keep government out of religion and religion out of government!

 

[crazyforgoofy]

Holy Mother! This convo is STILL going on?

I have to say it's so amazing to see so many people willing to take a stand against those others who have their own sense of entitlement when it comes to their perceived interpretations of God's word and they insist it should be a part of our government, both on the local, state and federal level. I, as a gay man, thank each and every one of you for your continued support.

The gay population is the minority in the world. We just can't win the fight against inequality in marriage if we were left to our own devices. We most definitely and irrefutably need the support of others if we are to win. If there's no support, it's a losing battle. And it is indeed a battle, one that would repulse me even if I weren't directly impacted.

This type of civil movement did involve black citizens, women, Catholics, Jews, the Italians, the Irish, the Chinese and Japanese, those with disabilities... the list goes on. Civil liberties are for all citizens. Our Constitution lays it out there for all to see.

Inequality is not part of God's word, nor should it ever be a part of the United States. Ever.

And I thank those of you that have come to the forefront and recognize this and are willing to stand next to me, raise your voice, and realize the inequities that are still prevalent in our society today.

Beautifully said, Rick. Thanks. The times they ARE a'changin!

 

[iloveboardwalk]

Holy Mother! This convo is STILL going on?

I have to say it's so amazing to see so many people willing to take a stand against those others who have their own sense of entitlement when it comes to their perceived interpretations of God's word and they insist it should be a part of our government, both on the local, state and federal level. I, as a gay man, thank each and every one of you for your continued support.

The gay population is the minority in the world. We just can't win the fight against inequality in marriage if we were left to our own devices. We most definitely and irrefutably need the support of others if we are to win. If there's no support, it's a losing battle. And it is indeed a battle, one that would repulse me even if I weren't directly impacted.

This type of civil movement did involve black citizens, women, Catholics, Jews, the Italians, the Irish, the Chinese and Japanese, those with disabilities... the list goes on. Civil liberties are for all citizens. Our Constitution lays it out there for all to see.

Inequality is not part of God's word, nor should it ever be a part of the United States. Ever.

And I thank those of you that have come to the forefront and recognize this and are willing to stand next to me, raise your voice, and realize the inequities that are still prevalent in our society today.

Some people refuse to look at the big picture. Right now, it's "just the gays" that are being discriminated against. Who cares? RIght, it's just a small minority of "weirdos" anyway?

But they fail to see that someday the shoe may be on the other foot. This is not some zero sum game about gay marriage. This is about human rights and if they expect people to fight for THEIR human rights, they darn well better stand up and fight for OTHER people's human rights. The self-interest kills me.

Do unto others....indeed

 

[Fitswimmer]

Some people refuse to look at the big picture. Right now, it's "just the gays" that are being discriminated against. Who cares? RIght, it's just a small minority of "weirdos" anyway?

But they fail to see that someday the shoe may be on the other foot. This is not some zero sum game about gay marriage. This is about human rights and if they expect people to fight for THEIR human rights, they darn well better stand up and fight for OTHER people's human rights. The self-interest kills me.

Do unto others....indeed

Exactly. LuvDuke alluded to this point earlier. Be careful about how much control you give the government. You may not like what they decide to do next. Right now, the people who think like you may be in charge, but as we've seen things can change pretty fast. The next group might decide to go after something that affects your life.