Freedom to Marry Day Protest Planned

[frndshpcptn]

Did anyone see Boston Legal last night? They talked about gay marriage on the show...

 

[jimmiej]

Hey Jenny! Where ya been? We needed you. This debate took a Jewish turn.

 

[mamaprincess]

People are People
So why should it be
You and I should get along so awfully

So we're different colors
And we're different creeds
And different people have different needs
It's obvious you hate me
Though I've done nothing wrong
I've never even met you so what could I have done

I can't understand
What makes a man
Hate another man
Help me understand

Help me understand

Now you're punching
And you're kicking
And you're shouting at me
I'm relying on your common decency
So far it hasn't surfaced
But I'm sure it exists
It just takes a while to travel
From your head to your fist

 

[JennyMominRI]

Hey Jenny! Where ya been? We needed you. This debate took a Jewish turn.

I'm just not much in the debating mood right now..I just don't have the energy

 

[jillyjoey]

I've been reading all the posts and I just wonder why religion is involved in the main question anyway, "same sex marriage"-- the last time I checked we lived in a democracy not a theocracy. The framers of the Constitution specifically set forth to ensure that a theocracy would not exist (to prevent the persecution of those who did not accept the theocracy's beliefs). There does not exist a valid legal argument in the equal protection context to support a ban on same-sex marriages. The poster who equated this situation to a ban on people of a certain religion from marrying hit the nail on the head (sorry I can't remember who the poster was - I couldn't agree more).

Moreover, I don't see why so many people are offended by same-sex marriages...it's not like a same-sex couple is going to come and get in bed with you and your heterosexual mate. IMHO, the issue of same-sex marriages should be a non-issue, it's not my place to judge who you... or you... or you end up finding happiness with and, if you are lucky enough at all to find such happiness & love --more power to you.

BTW, I like Abba and hate okra too!

 

[mking624]

People are People
So why should it be
You and I should get along so awfully

So we're different colors
And we're different creeds
And different people have different needs
It's obvious you hate me
Though I've done nothing wrong
I've never even met you so what could I have done

I can't understand
What makes a man
Hate another man
Help me understand

Help me understand

Now you're punching
And you're kicking
And you're shouting at me
I'm relying on your common decency
So far it hasn't surfaced
But I'm sure it exists
It just takes a while to travel
From your head to your fist

ACK Depeche Mode!!!
I can't stand them. On the other hand, DH loves them. Sometimes I wonder how we get along.

 

[mamaprincess]

BTW, I like Abba and hate okra too!

I don't like Abba and love okra but I would defend your right as an american to like or hate either one of them because this is a democracy.

 

[L107ANGEL]

I've been reading all the posts and I just wonder why religion is involved in the main question anyway, "same sex marriage"-- the last time I checked we lived in a democracy not a theocracy. The framers of the Constitution specifically set forth to ensure that a theocracy would not exist (to prevent the persecution of those who did not accept the theocracy's beliefs). There does not exist a valid legal argument in the equal protection context to support a ban on same-sex marriages. The poster who equated this situation to a ban on people of a certain religion from marrying hit the nail on the head (sorry I can't remember who the poster was - I couldn't agree more).

Moreover, I don't see why so many people are offended by same-sex marriages...it's not like a same-sex couple is going to come and get in bed with you and your heterosexual mate. IMHO, the issue of same-sex marriages should be a non-issue, it's not my place to judge who you... or you... or you end up finding happiness with and, if you are lucky enough at all to find such happiness & love --more power to you.

BTW, I like Abba and hate okra too!

Because Joe can't debate this without hitting us all on the head with the bible

 

[LuvDuke]

Polygamy was legal under Jewish law until the 11th century

Judaism
Scriptural evidence indicates that polygamy, though not extremely common, was not particularly unusual among the ancient Hebrews, and certainly not prohibited or discouraged. The Hebrew scriptures document approximately 40 polygamists, including prominent figures such as Abraham, Moses, Jacob, Esau, and David, with little or no further remark on their polygamy as such.[22] The Torah (the first 5 books of what Christians call the Old Testament) includes a few specific regulations on the practice of polygamy, such as Exodus 21:10, which states that multiple marriages are not to diminish the status of the first wife; Deuteronomy 21:15-17, which states that a man must award the inheritance due to a first-born son to the son who was actually born first, even if he hates that son's mother and likes another wife more;[23] and Deuteronomy 17:17, which states that the king shall not have too many wives.[24] One source of polygamy was the practice of levirate marriage, wherein a man was required to marry and support his deceased brother's widow.

In the modern day, Rabbinic Judaism has essentially outlawed polygamy. Ashkenazi Jews have followed Rabbenu Gershom's ban since the 11th century. Some Sephardi and Mizrahi Jews (particularly those from Yemen and Iran, where polygamy is a social norm) discontinued polygamy much more recently, as they emigrated to countries where it was forbidden. The State of Israel has forbidden polygamous marriages, but instituted provisions for existing polygamous families immigrating from countries where the practice was legal.

Okay. If I'm ever in a polygamous mood, and my God-given equipment changes, I'll remember that.

Btw, how did I get singled out for polygamy?

 

[Mugg Mann]

No, the govenment shouldn't recognize a relationship that is and of itself immoral, whether homosexual or polygamy.

I recently read a fascinating book called "Under the Banner of Heaven: A Story of Violent Faith" by Jon Krakauer (the same author who wrote "into Thin Air" about the ill-fated Everest expedition...another great read). The book started with the real life murder of two people by Mormon fundamentalists, but became an extremely illuminating read about the history of the Mormon religion.

It's very germain to this discussion because to Mormon fundamentalists, polygamy is something that is not only encouraged by the religion but is seen as ordained by God, and that to be closer to living the path that God has chosen one must be a polygamist. Facing persecution from the United States government, Mormons were forced to renounce polygamy, and created a subset of fundamentalists living under the radar who believe that polygamy is the only true way.

As an Athiest, I see virtually no difference between the point the Mormon fundamentalists are trying to make and the point Joe is trying to make railing against homosexuality. There are several similarities;

-Both believe that their viewpoint is the only true way.
-Both believe that the government has no business regulating their religion and that their viewpoint should be the law of the land (And folks, don't forget for a second that Joe has publicly stated on these boards that his particular interpretation of the Bible should take precedence over the Constitution)
-Both practices ignore the rights of the people being oppressed; many polygamist marriages include women well under the age of consent and Joe's desire to oppress people based on his religious beliefs is well-documented throughout this and many other threads.

I have little doubt that Joe perceives Mormon fundamentalism as a bunch of crackpots and not a legitimate religion because many of the values and beliefs in it conflict with the foundations of what Joe has chosen to believe. As an Athiest looking from the outside in, I offer the following for consideration; there are only two variables that separate a "legitimate" religion from a "crackpot" religion-the number of people who share those beliefs and the number of years that particular religion has existed. In other words, get enough people together and keep the concept alive long enough so that any idea whatsoever can become respectable no matter how impossible or ridiculous it may be.

The preceeding paragraph is why I will always be in amazement of the founding fathers of this country. They could never have forseen the technological changes in civilization that 200+ years would bring about. They never had to consider concepts of DNA or flight protocols or instantaneous worldwide communication (or warfare, for that matter) when writing the Constitution.

But they did understand human nature, which has not changed, nor probably ever will. They understood that religious fanatics like Joe have always existed and always will, people who blindly believe that their path is the only true one and are totally oblivious to the concept that there will never be willing universal agreement within a mass of people on the subject of religion. As a result, they took steps to insure that there would be no tyranny of the majority in America, and that brings us to the Constitution. It's no surprise that you continually show disdain for that fine document by failing to acknowledge it as the ultimate authority in this country, Joe, for it rightly impedes the path to having your personal visions legislated for all.

So Joe, the next time you rail against polygamy, I only hope you can appreciate the delicious irony that you are bitterly opposed to the exact same type of religious extremism that you continuously promote on these threads.

But I know better. You won't. And that right there is the ultimate irony of this thread.

 

[Mugg Mann]

I'm just not much in the dabating mood right now..I just don't have the energy

Jenny-

I have thought of you often since your ordeal started recently, and the healthy respect I had for you prior to that has only grown exponentionally since.

I think you are an incredibly strong person who carries herself with tremendous class and grace, and the enormous outpouring of support flowing to you from all corners of the DIS only reaffirms to me the good nature of most people.

Please know that I consider myself lucky to be one of the people who have gotten to know you through these threads.

My apologies to everyone else for the temporary hijack of the thread to deliver a blatantly personal message.

 

[jimmiej]

I'm just not much in the debating mood right now..I just don't have the energy

Yeah, it does take effort. Glad you stopped by though.

 

[JoeEpcotRocks]

Because Joe can't debate this without hitting us all on the head with the bible

Boink.

 

[L107ANGEL]

Boink.

Joe, please stop boinking me

 

[lovemygoofy]

Joe, please stop boinking me

I don't think I've ever read that phrase on the DIS

 

[JoeEpcotRocks]

Amen!!!

But you see bigots are selective christians if they can be called christians at all. They select the passages in the bible that support there hate and ignore the passages that cut down all of their hateful arguements. These are KKKristians.

I get it, all arguments against the religion of homosexuality are hateful.

It is not love to tell a thief to keep stealing.
It is not love to tell an alcoholic to keep drinking.
It is not love to tell someone in a homosexual relationship to stay in it.

Amen.

 

[Tigger&Belle]

Boink.

Whoa...I just looked up "boink" in urbandictionary and

 

[JoeEpcotRocks]

Joe, please stop boinking me

Too funny!

 

[PghLybrt]

Does it make me a bad gay man if I have NO idea where that song is from? Because I've worked hard for my membership card and don't want to jeopardize that. AND I refuse to give back the Official Gay I-pod that was me welcome gift. You can have the eye cream and hair gel though. Too stinky for me.

How did you get an I pod? All I got was a toaster.....

 

[L107ANGEL]

I get it, all arguments against the religion of homosexuality are hateful.

It is not love to tell a thief to keep stealing.
It is not love to tell an alcoholic to keep drinking.
It is not love to tell someone in a homosexual relationship to stay in it.

Amen.

Aww, but you see a thief can not steal, an alcholic can stop drinking, these are choices. Homosexuality is not a choice.