Free Kate

[LuvinLucifer]

I think the main problem is that our laws don't reflect the biological reality that teenagers aren't pre-pubescent children. We have the highest ages of consent in the industrialized world. I don't think teenagers should have sex, but they aren't biologically incapable of consenting. To lump "statutory rape" with rape and pedophelia completely ignores the fact it has completely different root causes.

 

[chobie]

This story was on the Today show today. My take on it is simply---

If it were an 18 yr old guy with a 14 yr old girl -- the story would be full of outrage of how this evil guy did such a thing to a child and he wouldn't likely have even gotten the plea deal Kate was offered. The guy would be cruicified by many as a child molester.

The Today show story (unless I misheard) said she was a 18 when the "offense" occurred and not 17 and the girl had recently turned 15, but was 14 at the time. The story even referred to a "4 year" age difference.

Do I think the girl should get potentially 15 years in jail for a consensual relationship....no. However, the law is written such as what she did was a crime and if she were a guy, this story would likely have gotten zero press and people wouldn't have started petitions to save him.

It's true it wouldn't get press if it was an adult male and a teenage girl, but that's because it's not newsworthy. Whenever a female commits a major crime it's all over the news. How many murder trials took place throughout this country with male defendants while the Jodie Arias trial was going on? Probably dozens.

That being said, I don't think most people think teenagers going to the same school and dating is a big deal even if there is an age difference. We all knew freshman girls who dated senior guys in high school. And except for occasionally the girl's parents, no one thought it was a big deal.

 

[DizBelle]

I'm not a parent, so I'm wondering for all of you parents out there:

(first, some say she was seventeen. According to their birth dates, she was 18 when the first encounter happened.

Would you really not have a problem with an 18 year old guy having a relationship with your 14 year ol daugther?

And for the parents of boys, would it be OK with you to have an 18 year old woman having a relationship with your 14 year old son?

From my non-parent POV. I find an 18 year old with a 14 year old skeevy

It depends on the 14 year old and the 18 year old. Some 14 year olds are remarkably mature and some 18 year olds are remarkably immature.

 

[Sanchez]

If a 40 year old guy has a sexual relationship with a 15 year old, he'd be on the sex offender list. If a 17 year old guy has sex with a 15 year old, and then turns 18, he isn't put on the sex offender list. There are certain provisions that have to be met to be considered under the Romeo and Juliet law. This couple meets every one of he provisions except being a heterosexual couple.

From where you getting this information? I do not think your understanding of the Romeo and Juliet law is correct.

It appears that the Romeo and Juliet Law creates a mechanism to petition to be removed from the sexual offender list. It DOES NOT change the consent laws nor a conviction thereunder. Further, I am not sure where sexual orientation has anything to do with it.

http://www.flsenate.gov/PublishedContent/Session/2012/InterimReports/2012-214cj.pdf

If you have any other information I would be interested to read it.

 

[PrincessKsMom]

The ONLY reason this is a story is because it was a lesbian relationship. Those parents should be ashamed of themselves. They were aware of the relationship and the suddenly had a change of heart? My bet is they were getting flack from family, friends and community and decided that their little snowflake bore no part in this.

When kids of high school age are together, relationships are bound to happen.

 

[luvsJack]

The problem with saying "Change the laws" is that there are some 18 year olds, both boys and girls, who are totally self aware and devious enough to use the age difference and manipulate a younger teen into a sexual relationship, so changing the laws would also protect those who actually are predators, they just haven't gotten old enough from their chosen prey age range for it to be truly skeevy.

Were the parents of the 14 year old jerks for filing charges because Kate is a girl, yep, unless they would have filed the exact same charges on their daughters boyfriend, total jerks, but I don't think that a 14 year old is truly aware enough to give informed consent to a sexual relationship either. It's a sticky wicket, and unfortunately, Kate has run into it. From a legal standpoint, given the limited facts, she's guilty, but I don't think that she should be sentenced to years in prison or put on the sex offender registry for it either.

I don't disagree with the bolded, but there are also plenty of 14 year olds that are just as much self-aware and just as devious. Becoming 18 doesn't suddenly make someone all powerful over their younger peers.

Truth be known, if a just turned 18 year old convinces his/her 14 year old bf/gf to have sex; I don't see that as a sexual predator. I see that as a teen that is most likely a normal teen. Now if he/she was trying to convince a 9/10 year old, I would see it differently.

A 14 year old should have enough self awareness and should be given the tools needed to not simply be "convinced".

 

[ICF]

Just curious....but how old is too old to have sex with a 14 year old...even if s/he wants to and is a willing and able participant in the act?

Many here are saying...18 year olds are just kids themselves and that dating a 14 year old is no big deal. What about 19...20....25?

 

[luvsJack]

Just curious....but how old is too old to have sex with a 14 year old...even if s/he wants to and is a willing and able participant in the act?

Many here are saying...18 year olds are just kids themselves and that dating a 14 year old is no big deal. What about 19...20....25?

to me, the difference is in the kid.

18 and 14 year olds are in school together. Many high school seniors are 18 or almost 18, a high school freshman is about 14. So we are usually talking a senior dating a freshman. 19/14 would be a freshman in college with a freshman in high school. Big difference there.

20 or 25? Why would you compare that to a 18 year old? Of course that is too old. But the place to stop that relationship is well before you know they are having sex.

 

[TomorrowlandFamily]

Sexual orientation has no place in the discussion. It's the fact the victim isn't old enough to give consent, plain and simple.

This.

 

[chobie]

to me, the difference is in the kid.

18 and 14 year olds are in school together. Many high school seniors are 18 or almost 18, a high school freshman is about 14. So we are usually talking a senior dating a freshman. 19/14 would be a freshman in college with a freshman in high school. Big difference there.

20 or 25? Why would you compare that to a 18 year old? Of course that is too old. But the place to stop that relationship is well before you know they are having sex.

I agree. It's one thing for an a person who has graduated high school to be trolling around looking for 14 year olds to hook up with. It's another thing for 2 kids who go to school together to form a romantic relationship. When we put kids between the ages if 14-18 together all day, what do we expect to happen?

That being said, the law is the law and it should be applied evenly. Of course prosecutors have discretion, but when they have angry parents, a 14 year old victim and a law that clearly states that the conduct was criminal, then they pretty much have to move forward on the charge.

 

[tzolkin]

Just curious....but how old is too old to have sex with a 14 year old...even if s/he wants to and is a willing and able participant in the act?

Many here are saying...18 year olds are just kids themselves and that dating a 14 year old is no big deal. What about 19...20....25?

To me, the difference is that they are high school peers.

It's not so much about the actual age difference.

I find an adult and a high school kid disturbing, but two adults with a 5+ year age gap seems perfectly fine.

I'm not a parent, so I'm wondering for all of you parents out there:

(first, some say she was seventeen. According to their birth dates, she was 18 when the first encounter happened.

Would you really not have a problem with an 18 year old guy having a relationship with your 14 year ol daugther?

And for the parents of boys, would it be OK with you to have an 18 year old woman having a relationship with your 14 year old son?

From my non-parent POV. I find an 18 year old with a 14 year old skeevy

I have a 14yo DD. She skipped a grade and will still be 14 more than half way through 10th grade. Due to age cutoffs for starting school there are kids in the same grade who are well over two years older than she is. So, she could still be 14 and dating an 18yo who is just one grade above her.

I could see where in my mind the idea of an 18 and 14yo could be creepy. (Someone well out of HS and someone who just turned 14) But I just don't see where it would be "gross" or "skeevy" for two teens one grade apart to be in a relationship.

 

[ICF]

to me, the difference is in the kid.

18 and 14 year olds are in school together. Many high school seniors are 18 or almost 18, a high school freshman is about 14. So we are usually talking a senior dating a freshman. 19/14 would be a freshman in college with a freshman in high school. Big difference there. .

So the College/HS thing is an issue, more so then 19 & 14? I was 17 when I started my Freshman year at college. I didnt turn 18 until a month into college, so I was 18 all the way into the 1st month of my Soph year.

HS Sr / FR may date -- but if it gets to the point of sex, the 18 yr old best know that things could get really ugly if the parents want it to or the 14 yr old has a change of heart and wants to say it wasn't so mutual.

And I agree with others.....the girl / girl aspect of this is the only reason this is getting so much attention. Guy / Girl this isn't a story and almost certainly would not be trying to portray the older of the two as a victim.

 

[chobie]

From where you getting this information? I do not think your understanding of the Romeo and Juliet law is correct.

It appears that the Romeo and Juliet Law creates a mechanism to petition to be removed from the sexual offender list. It DOES NOT change the consent laws nor a conviction thereunder. Further, I am not sure where sexual orientation has anything to do with it.

http://www.flsenate.gov/PublishedContent/Session/2012/InterimReports/2012-214cj.pdf

If you have any other information I would be interested to read it.

Yes, you have correctly interpreted Fla. Stat. 943.04354. Good thing you went to law school.

 

[Sanchez]

Yes, you have correctly interpreted Fla. Stat. 943.04354. Good thing you went to law school.

Glad to get approval from the smartest person on the DIS.

 

[MissMichigan]

The story I read said the other girls' parents knew about the relationship from the get-go, and the "gay thing" WAS the problem. They tried repeatedly to have Kate expelled from school, finally making that happen a few weeks before Kate was to graduate. So they got what they wanted, Kate had to change schools for the last few weeks of her high school career, but then as soon as she turned 18, they decided they wanted more and had her arrested. They are very much trying to ruin Kate's life, not because she is 18, but because she is a female that they believe "turned" their own daughter.

Also, I read that Kate was once called in to testify in a nearly identical case. She had walked into the school bathroom to find two girls (same age difference) engaged in a sexual act. The charges in this other case were dropped. Same school, same district, same situation...very different outcome. This could have led both Kate and her GF to believe, if something were to happen to them, the charges would be dropped as well.

 

[luvsJack]

So the College/HS thing is an issue, more so then 19 & 14? I was 17 when I started my Freshman year at college. I didnt turn 18 until a month into college, so I was 18 all the way into the 1st month of my Soph year.

HS Sr / FR may date -- but if it gets to the point of sex, the 18 yr old best know that things could get really ugly if the parents want it to or the 14 yr old has a change of heart and wants to say it wasn't so mutual.

And I agree with others.....the girl / girl aspect of this is the only reason this is getting so much attention. Guy / Girl this isn't a story and almost certainly would not be trying to portray the older of the two as a victim.

I don't think either one should be considered a victim and that goes for a boy/girl relationship as well as this one.

Its not so much just a college/hs thing. But that is part of it.

A lot of maturity usually can happen between turning 18 and turning 19.

A high school senior and a high school freshman are in classes together, activities together, go to the same school functions, etc. They have more of the same life experiences than a 14 and 19 year old are going to have.

 

[Arielle22]

I don't think either one should be considered a victim and that goes for a boy/girl relationship as well as this one.

Its not so much just a college/hs thing. But that is part of it.

A lot of maturity usually can happen between turning 18 and turning 19.

A high school senior and a high school freshman are in classes together, activities together, go to the same school functions, etc. They have more of the same life experiences than a 14 and 19 year old are going to have.

Laws can't be based on individuals or maturity. There has to be a line in the sand.

I am amazed that no one has considered maybe the younger girl did feel pressured into the relationship, the same way a young girl who wants to be popular allows herself to be talked into sex by an older male athlete.

If the 18 year old knew the parents of the younger girl had a problem with the relationship, why did she continue it? If a mom posted on this board that her son was in a relationship with a younger girl and her parents didn't approve, the replies would all say for the son to dump the girl before he got in trouble.

I have a 17 year old DD and she has a 14 year old female friend who has a crush on my DD. I found out when I saw letters the girl had written my DD. At that point I didn't allow them to be alone together. I didn't want any false allegations that could hurt my DD's college and job prospects. DD goes to college in September and I think the friendship will die a natural death at that point.

 

[FLCyndi]

Laws can't be based on individuals or maturity. There has to be a line in the sand.

I am amazed that no one has considered maybe the younger girl did feel pressured into the relationship, the same way a young girl who wants to be popular allows herself to be talked into sex by an older male athlete.

If the 18 year old knew the parents of the younger girl had a problem with the relationship, why did she continue it? If a mom posted on this board that her son was in a relationship with a younger girl and her parents didn't approve, the replies would all say for the son to dump the girl before he got in trouble.

I have a 17 year old DD and she has a 14 year old female friend who has a crush on my DD. I found out when I saw letters the girl had written my DD. At that point I didn't allow them to be alone together. I didn't want any false allegations that could hurt my DD's college and job prospects. DD goes to college in September and I think the friendship will die a natural death at that point.

My son was an 18 year old senior, there was defintely long talks and parental guidance (including FL Law) regarding him dating freshman.
Where was Kate's mother?

 

[roomthreeseventeen]

My son was an 18 year old senior, there was defintely long talks and parental guidance (including FL Law) regarding him dating freshman.
Where was Kate's mother?

Kate's mother knew and approved of their relationship. Plenty of 14-15 year olds date 17-18 year olds.

 

[luvsJack]

Laws can't be based on individuals or maturity. There has to be a line in the sand.

I am amazed that no one has considered maybe the younger girl did feel pressured into the relationship, the same way a young girl who wants to be popular allows herself to be talked into sex by an older male athlete.

If the 18 year old knew the parents of the younger girl had a problem with the relationship, why did she continue it? If a mom posted on this board that her son was in a relationship with a younger girl and her parents didn't approve, the replies would all say for the son to dump the girl before he got in trouble.

I have a 17 year old DD and she has a 14 year old female friend who has a crush on my DD. I found out when I saw letters the girl had written my DD. At that point I didn't allow them to be alone together. I didn't want any false allegations that could hurt my DD's college and job prospects. DD goes to college in September and I think the friendship will die a natural death at that point.

That's why I think the laws are. . . well, I wouldn't say wrong, but not right.

We don't know if the younger girl was pressured but we also don't know if the older girl felt pressured.

Please, understand, I am not saying that I am ok with my dd having sex with her 17, almost 18 year old bf. I'm not. But, it wouldn't just be his fault if they did.

How many teens, do you know, that think they are in love are going to back away from a relationship because either set of parents wants them to? Not many.