Free Disney Dining Package for DVC Members?

[goofy4tink]

Interesting discussion. Disney doesn't offer DVC owners free dining, or many other discounts, simply because those discounts are there to entice people to come to WDW. DVC owners certainly don't need enticing. DVC works best for those who go to WDW frequently. And not every 'perk' is going to work for every person.
If you choose to not go to WDW every year, and don't get an AP, then you don't get to buy a TiW card...simple. The TiW card costs $75 for those of us who have APs. It takes a fair amount of eating to make that card woth it. And it's hard to do in one trip unless you spend an inordinant amount of time eating..or at very expensive places. My TiW card pays for itself because I go to WDW at least twice a year..hence the AP. But, if you only go every other year, or even once a year, that card is not going to pay for itself. And frankly, I can't see Disney offering it to anyone free of charge.

I have taken advantage of free dining...did that last Sept. Stayed at POP rathre than on points. But I have to tell you.....Disney makes up for the cost of free dining by charging rack rates at the resorts. It's nothing that holds huge appeal to me anymore. Not sure where Disney would make up the cost if they offered free dining to DVC members staying on points.

It would be nice to be able to get a small discount on park passes, other than APs. It would also be nice to be able to get a discount on the dining plan. But, those things will probably never happen. I'm thrilled with the AP discount..it is a good savings for me, especially since I get to buy the TiW card as well. I am staying in a resort that I wouldn't normally be able to stay in...at least not as often as I do. That is a huge discount in my opinion.

 

[Sandisw]

$1800 includes initial buy in, and yearly MF and pay for the dining plan?
Boy, would I like to see the math you used on that one.
I bought 150 points at SSR for $13075. (Initial buy in) I expect to use it for 22 years, and then sell or give to my daughter if she wants, as I will be 76, and ready to give it up, So annual fees for 22 years about $24,325, with buy in equals $37,400 divided by 22 years comes to $1700 for each years 150 points. $40 dining cost per day times 5 days is another $200. So you are close.
Was your buy in less? Surely your MF must be higher if you are figuring 40 years or so. Would like to hear the math you used.

My initial buy in was $18,000 and the contract (BLT) is for 50 years--that puts my room costs at $360.00 per year, plus MF's of $660 per year. Brings my room to an average of $1000.00 per year. Dining plan adds another $800.00

Regardless of whether I am using the contract or its my children, the value is there as we plan to get plenty of use out of it.


But here is another way to look at it. It would cost me $2600.00 to get my room with free dining. In 20 years, that would be $52,000 out of pocket to stay in a hotel room.

In 20 years of owning DVC, assuming I can sell BLT for 1/2 of what I paid, I will have spent $9,000 to buy in, $13,200 in MF's, and $16,000 in dining., I will have spent $$38,200--a savings of close to $14,000 (and yes, I did not figure increase in MF's since I am assuming that the rate those go up would be similar to the rate increase at the WDW hotels) compared to the $52,000 it would have cost me to pay cash and get "free dining" every year.

No matter how you look at it, we get a value for our rooms by owning DVC. But, that is the beauty of DVC--it is not for everyone.

 

[Cmbar]

$1800 includes initial buy in, and yearly MF and pay for the dining plan?
Boy, would I like to see the math you used on that one.
I bought 150 points at SSR for $13075. (Initial buy in) I expect to use it for 22 years, and then sell or give to my daughter if she wants, as I will be 76, and ready to give it up, So annual fees for 22 years about $24,325, with buy in equals $37,400 divided by 22 years comes to $1700 for each years 150 points. $40 dining cost per day times 5 days is another $200. So you are close.
Was your buy in less? Surely your MF must be higher if you are figuring 40 years or so. Would like to hear the math you used.

Wow you only used 22 years of a 50 year contract? No wonder your figure is way high

Even if you only wanted to say you could use the SSR contract 22 more years you would have to pay the additional MF if you didn't sell it. And if you did sell it you would have to back that value back in to your figures. The only correct way to get the math accurately is to take intial buy in and calculate for the length of the contract (divide by number of year left on contract), add MF for length of contract (since that will have to be paid) and then figure room cost as WDW for the length of the contract (based on today's rates with free dining). Otherwise everyone's math would be different based on how long they plan to use the DVC. That is not the actual value of the contract that you bought.

 

[zdesiree]

Well here we go....This is why accountants and financial planners clash....

In an accounting point of view you may find that for Disney is no benefit to give free dining to DVC, well in that case there's no benefit neither to give it to the general public too, who are the majority of people who visit Disney. Who books do you think will be more affected? WDW or DVC?

In a financial planning point of view, they found that is profitable to make the investment of offering to their biggest clients, the general public, free dining, and that way they can reach every niche market in a very low season for the parks.

I don't think is a bad idea to ask for free dining for DVC, why? I think that Disney may do a big profit out of it too, because this is a public that was willing to pay upfront for their vacations, so what that means? This public is extremely possible to have more cash at hand to spend, more sophisticated, and the best way to do it is through temptation. If you give DVC members free dining you will expose them to spend more money in the parks and restaurants. They will even attract new clients and old clients to DVC, why? Because they are making it more attractive to buy and to add points for a longer stay.

It won't surprise me if they try it one year to see the feedback and the results ($$$$$) of it, all they have to do is select the lowest DVC season for the offering.

If you want to make a profit, you need to do a wise investment, that’s when the investment analyst come and fight with accounting. Accounting is all about retaining the money now, but the financial people is about spend wisely now to make a profit later.

Regarding that the annual fees will get higher, because they have to pay for this somehow. Hey! right now EVERYBODY, general public and DVC, is paying for it through the park tickets increase of every year. I don’t think they would increase the annual fees, they are getting more money taking the DVC people out of the villa kitchens and sending them to the restaurants and parks to spend more.

All we need as DVC members is self control when the temptation come.

 

[Chuck S]

Well here we go....This is why accountants and financial planners clash....

In an accounting point of view you may find that for Disney is no benefit to give free dining to DVC, well in that case there's no benefit neither to give it to the general public too, who are the majority of people who visit Disney. Who books do you think will be more affected? WDW or DVC?

In a financial planning point of view, they found that is profitable to make the investment of offering to their biggest clients, the general public, free dining, and that way they can reach every niche market in a very low season for the parks.

I don't think is a bad idea to ask for free dining for DVC, why? I think that Disney may do a big profit out of it too, because this is a public that was willing to pay upfront for their vacations, so what that means? This public is extremely possible to have more cash at hand to spend, more sophisticated, and the best way to do it is through temptation. If you give DVC members free dining you will expose them to spend more money in the parks and restaurants. They will even attract new clients and old clients to DVC, why? Because they are making it more attractive to buy and to add points for a longer stay.

It won't surprise me if they try it one year to see the feedback and the results ($$$$$) of it, all they have to do is select the lowest DVC season for the offering.

If you want to make a profit, you need to do a wise investment, that’s when the investment analyst come and fight with accounting. Accounting is all about retaining the money now, but the financial people is about spend wisely now to make a profit later.

Regarding that the annual fees will get higher, because they have to pay for this somehow. Hey! right now EVERYBODY, general public and DVC, is paying for it through the park tickets increase of every year. I don’t think they would increase the annual fees, they are getting more money taking the DVC people out of the villa kitchens and sending them to the restaurants and parks to spend more.

All we need as DVC members is self control when the temptation come.

People are spending less $$ in the parks, they are traveling, but not spending. People that travel on cash and free dining are a market that may not have traveled at all without the promo...so I doubt they'd suddenly loosen their pursestrings in the gift shops.

By the same token, the vast majority of DVC members are repeat guests several times over, they have a lot of souvenirs already. Free dining wouldn't encourage me to spend more, I'd simply save more $$ on the trip.

 

[Cmbar]

People are spending less $$ in the parks, they are traveling, but not spending. People that travel on cash and free dining are a market that may not have traveled at all without the promo...so I doubt they'd suddenly loosen their pursestrings in the gift shops.

By the same token, the vast majority of DVC members are repeat guests several times over, they have a lot of souvenirs already. Free dining wouldn't encourage me to spend more, I'd simply save more $$ on the trip.

I really don't understand any reasoning to give DVC members a free ride on dining (yes,I am an accoutant ) First off as a DVC member I would be ticked if DVC suddenly decided that they pick the month of Sept, lets say, for free dining for DVC members. Lets say all of us decide wow, I better go then. Then I call MS and out of luck, no DVC properties left. So DVC resorts are full up. Big deal how does this help Disney?? There is only a limited number of people who can be there at each DVC resort and they have already paid for their rooms. While SSR might have occupancies, many times the DVC resorts are full. In fact a CM over at BCV told us that during this "recession" the BCV side of the resort is near 90-100% full. However the Yacht and Beach club is closer to 40-50 percent full. Don't know how accurate that is, but it makes sense. DVC owners are not going to suddenly stop going to Disney if they have already paid for the stay.

I don't even see it from a Financial planning aspect. Unless of course you say all DVC members staying in the year 2009 get free dining. This may spark new buyers, but I certainly don't think it will increase the spending habits of DVC members. I would be so ticked if DVC members were giving free dining at certain times of the years. Especially if I can't get to Disney then or I couldn't get a room with my points. That would be a marketing nightmare for DVC I think.

 

[Tara]

DVC makes up a large portion of Disney's wealth and we have every right to speak up if we feel we are not getting our money's worth.

What I don't get is the "not getting our money's worth" attitude. You are getting exactly the benefits you signed a contract for.

 

[DebbieB]

Well here we go....This is why accountants and financial planners clash....

In an accounting point of view you may find that for Disney is no benefit to give free dining to DVC, well in that case there's no benefit neither to give it to the general public too, who are the majority of people who visit Disney. Who books do you think will be more affected? WDW or DVC?

In a financial planning point of view, they found that is profitable to make the investment of offering to their biggest clients, the general public, free dining, and that way they can reach every niche market in a very low season for the parks.

I don't think is a bad idea to ask for free dining for DVC, why? I think that Disney may do a big profit out of it too, because this is a public that was willing to pay upfront for their vacations, so what that means? This public is extremely possible to have more cash at hand to spend, more sophisticated, and the best way to do it is through temptation. If you give DVC members free dining you will expose them to spend more money in the parks and restaurants. They will even attract new clients and old clients to DVC, why? Because they are making it more attractive to buy and to add points for a longer stay.

It won't surprise me if they try it one year to see the feedback and the results ($$$$$) of it, all they have to do is select the lowest DVC season for the offering.

If you want to make a profit, you need to do a wise investment, that’s when the investment analyst come and fight with accounting. Accounting is all about retaining the money now, but the financial people is about spend wisely now to make a profit later.

Regarding that the annual fees will get higher, because they have to pay for this somehow. Hey! right now EVERYBODY, general public and DVC, is paying for it through the park tickets increase of every year. I don’t think they would increase the annual fees, they are getting more money taking the DVC people out of the villa kitchens and sending them to the restaurants and parks to spend more.

All we need as DVC members is self control when the temptation come.

You keep mentioning the parks. The purpose of free dining is to fill empty hotel rooms at full price. Not to get people into the parks, although that is a side benefit. No different than offering a 40% discount on the rooms, just a different promotion angle. If the purpose was to get people into the parks, they would offer a deal for people staying offsite. As far as attracting more members or buying more points, they are not having a problem selling points to make it worth giving the whole membership free dining. It would be nice, but it's not going to happen.

 

[zdesiree]

People are spending less $$ in the parks, they are traveling, but not spending. People that travel on cash and free dining are a market that may not have traveled at all without the promo...so I doubt they'd suddenly loosen their pursestrings in the gift shops.

By the same token, the vast majority of DVC members are repeat guests several times over, they have a lot of souvenirs already. Free dining wouldn't encourage me to spend more, I'd simply save more $$ on the trip.

Obviously not a 100% on members will spend more, the same way not 100% of members go several times in a year. I know because I see it here in the boards, with all the economic situation now, there are new members that want to play safe and they are just buying an amount of points in cash that will let them go every other year. I think that's a possible market they can attack. Besides there is always the park tickets, if you bring more DVC members in a low season, is more park tickets you are going to sell too plus don't forget more new members and more add-ons.

DVC will need to make a marketing study to see with which niche market of DVC members the strategy will work, because for example there are cultures that the people are spenders not savers. I live in a country of spenders. If after that study they find it too risky, they are not going to do it.

But it doesn't surprise me if they do a test run at some time.

 

[Chuck S]

Besides there is always the park tickets, if you bring more DVC members in a low season, is more park tickets you are going to sell too plus don't forget more new members and more add-ons.

There really isn't a "low season" for DVC resorts, any point based flexible timeshare is designed top operate at near capacity year round. That's really the only way a flexible system can survive, or the resale market would be completely flooded. That is the function of the point chart seasons. So really, no increase in park ticket sales from DVC if the resorts are always nearly full anyway, and no increase in park spending traffic.

As far as in increase in sales...I doubt it would have a major impact, especially if it were a seasonal free offering. Not every one can travel during that season. If "free" had a major impact on sales, we'd still have the free park pass promotion we had in the early 1990s. Apparently there wasn't a major drop in sales when that contract perk was discontinued in the mid 1990s, or when the use of those passes expired on December 31, 1999.

 

[zdesiree]

I really don't understand any reasoning to give DVC members a free ride on dining (yes,I am an accoutant ) First off as a DVC member I would be ticked if DVC suddenly decided that they pick the month of Sept, lets say, for free dining for DVC members. Lets say all of us decide wow, I better go then. Then I call MS and out of luck, no DVC properties left. So DVC resorts are full up. Big deal how does this help Disney?? There is only a limited number of people who can be there at each DVC resort and they have already paid for their rooms. While SSR might have occupancies, many times the DVC resorts are full. In fact a CM over at BCV told us that during this "recession" the BCV side of the resort is near 90-100% full. However the Yacht and Beach club is closer to 40-50 percent full. Don't know how accurate that is, but it makes sense. DVC owners are not going to suddenly stop going to Disney if they have already paid for the stay.

I don't even see it from a Financial planning aspect. Unless of course you say all DVC members staying in the year 2009 get free dining. This may spark new buyers, but I certainly don't think it will increase the spending habits of DVC members. I would be so ticked if DVC members were giving free dining at certain times of the years. Especially if I can't get to Disney then or I couldn't get a room with my points. That would be a marketing nightmare for DVC I think.

Has been a marketing nightmare that they've been given a special discount for MVMCP that runs only in Nov and Dec to DVC members? Why do you think they do that? Because they are nice? I don't think so, it's all business, and if they find even a little profit (how much do you think they do with this special?) they are going to do it.

I understand that the full resorts happens a lot in December and not for that the DVC members have stop going or have left. Anyway Disney doesn't loose anything because when one member goes another arrives.

 

[hakepb]

Has been a marketing nightmare that they've been given a special discount for MVMCP that runs only in Nov and Dec to DVC members? Why do you think they do that? Because they are nice? I don't think so, it's all business, and if they find even a little profit (how much do you think they do with this special?) they are going to do it.

An MVMCP discount still requires payment (it is not "free MVMCP for DVC members") In fact a DVC member that attends a "discounted MVMCP" usually spends more total on park admissions because MVMCP is a seperate ticketed event (and not included in AP or MYW)..

"Free dining" would not require addiitonal spending. Now I might understand a DVC member discounted DDP, but I guess DVC never gets that for members because they want to offer members the same discount all year.

Personally, I would not be against a seasonal DDP discount, even if it did not fall in my current schedule...

 

[Chuck S]

Has been a marketing nightmare that they've been given a special discount for MVMCP that runs only in Nov and Dec to DVC members? Why do you think they do that? Because they are nice?

Special event tickets are normally only discounted on specific nights when the event doesn't historically sell out.

But, the restaurants are already packed during free dining, to the point it is next to impossible to get ADRs during that time frame. You can't magically increase restaurant capacity. In fact, it was so bad that temporary restaurant locations were set up to handle the overflow in previous years. Remember the temporary buffet at the Pirate and Parrot? The DVC resorts operate at near capacity anyway, and even so, there wouldn't be additional income for the DVC points room rental, whether it is full or not. There really wouldn't be any cash generated by giving DVC free dining, no matter how you try to justify it.

 

[TDC Nala]

They also allow free diners to swap TS credits for CS and snacks or merchandise because the restaurants tended to be so full that a lot of guests complained about not being able to use their free TS credits.

Still can't imagine why, with our highly discounted rooms, DVC would think it was a good idea to just give us all our food for free. DVC reservations with paid dining is already a spectacular deal for those who like the dining plan.

 

[zdesiree]

You keep mentioning the parks. The purpose of free dining is to fill empty hotel rooms at full price. Not to get people into the parks, although that is a side benefit. No different than offering a 40% discount on the rooms, just a different promotion angle. If the purpose was to get people into the parks, they would offer a deal for people staying offsite. As far as attracting more members or buying more points, they are not having a problem selling points to make it worth giving the whole membership free dining. It would be nice, but it's not going to happen.

Don't you think that the promotion of 3 days/4 days was pretty agressive? Think about it, they were willing to "give" 60% discount just to fill the resorts as you said, what's the profit then? People that can't afford to come, to bring it here to spend in the parks, because they can't afford dining in the resorts, it's too expensive. These people will be eating at counter service in the parks, not in restaurants. The promotion was to get the little fish, creating a big fish.

They've been moving slowly to create a big net to take the big fishes, how? look at all the new resorts like BLT or AKV, they know the public and they know that DVC members LOVE to add-on. If they see a little profit in the future, offering at some point free dining to DVC members, they are going to do it.

In general I'm saying to be open-minded about it, because it can happen. Disney is going through difficult times too, and they are willing to risk up to 60% for now of the profits, just to bring people to spend.

Hey, maybe is not free dining, but it could be a big discount in the dining plan for DVC members.

 

[Chuck S]

Pay for 4 get 3 free is not a 60% discount. On the room, it is a 43% discount, on the park ticket it is only a 3% to 4% discount, remember MYW tickets are front loaded, and the DDP wasn't discounted as part of the package.

Aggressive, yes, but not any more so than typical passholder or Fl resident seasonal room rates.

 

[Tara]

Think about it, they were willing to "give" 60% discount just to fill the resorts as you said, what's the profit then?

In general I'm saying to be open-minded about it, because it can happen. Disney is going through difficult times too, and they are willing to risk up to 60% for now of the profits, just to bring people to spend.

Where do you see a 60% discount? It looks like about 40% to me. And remember that the discount is really a room discount - the discount on the extra days on admission is insignificant. Yes, it looks like an aggressive discount, but it also captures people for a more significant amount of time, increasing the chances that they'll spend money in the parks and shops. If you're asking what the profit is, remember that they have often offered similarly good discounts to AP holders - and Disney rack rates are marked up significantly, so even at 40% off, they are making a profit. Plus they are increasing attendance, which further impacts profit. I have been an avid Disney goer for over 10 years now and I only remember the 4 + 3 deal being offered during down economic times - times that they would have otherwise seen a lot of empty rooms because people were either not traveling or were taking shorter vacations or staying offsite.

And the free dining plan is offered at a time when they traditionally are less able to fill rooms. They clearly have enough research and real stats that show a food discount means they have more people in the doors. They're willing to take bigger risks if those risks equal more people actually visiting. Nothing has shown they're willing to take equally big risks (i.e., offer similar discounts) for people who are already going to be there.

 

[crisi]

The other thing about the 4/3 promotion is that it specifically attacks Disney's competition - Universal - during a down economy. A lot of people go to central Florida. They spend one day at each of Disney's parks, one day at SeaWorld, one day at each of the Universal parks - then they go home. They often stay offsite. The more people Disney can keep at Disney for their entire week, the less capital Universal has to be able to compete with Disney. In my opinion, its probably more of a competitive move than anything.

 

[LisaS]

I agree that there is no compelling reason for Disney to offer free dining to DVC members booking a stay on points. DVC already offers an incentive for members to come to WDW at slow times through the point charts. The entire month of September is in Adventure Season so you already get a discount on your WDW DVC accommodations by going that time of year. Offering free dining in addition to the lower points to members who book a September stay would please a small group of members and upset a much larger group of members who never go to WDW at that time of year. We like to go in late January which is also in Adventure Season. Shouldn't we get free dining then too? Members who go during Premier Season pay the highest points of the year so don't they deserve free dining to compensate them for being willing to pay a lot more points for their stay? I prefer that DVC offer the same perks to all members regardless of the time of year they normally visit so unless we all get free dining I would prefer that they not make the offer to just a few members.

And I really don't see that offering free dining to a small number of members would have any impact on sales. If they need to increase sales, they do that with sales incentives that they make available to everyone rather than special offers for existing members who visit WDW only at slow times of the year. Back when we were deciding whether to purchase DVC, if I had been told "members who visit during September get free dining", I would have been disappointed to hear that since we will never go at that time. And besides, nobody should buy DVC based on perks like this because they can be eliminated at any time.

 

[mjlass11]

I am one of those who thinks that we, as DVC owners, should get more in the way of discounts, not giveaways. Do I think that we should all get free DDP all the time? Of course not, and I don't believe most people think this either. I believe that there are a significant number of owners, such as myself, whom it does not make sense to advantage of the annual pass discount because they won't be there long enough, and thus are ineligible to purchase TIW and there is no discount available on daily park tickets. Was it a mistake to buy DVC? NO!!! I like being able to stay in a larger room on Disney property or bring family/friends.... I do not consider it unreasonable for DVC members to automatically qualify to purchase a TIW card. Without this card, I will most likely eat in my Villa, or only go to quick service places to eat because the table service restaurants are quite highly priced. So, Disney would be making more than if I were to eat a pizza from Hess in my Villa. And let's face it, Disney still makes a profit on food purchased with TIW card or a similar percentage discount. As for park tickets, I don't consider a 10-20% discount for daily hopper passes unreasonable. Florida residents are given discounts, and I consider DVC members pretty much in the same catagory of consumer. I'm sure there are plenty of others who consider my ideas almost blasphemous and thus will be more than eager to tell me how fiscally irresponsible this would be and that I probably shouldn't have joined DVC to begin with...., so I am ready for your rebuttals