free dining

[ccgirl]

I traded an RCI timeshare in to a 2BR at BWV. Since we were considered a trade we could, and did, add the dining plan. Last year it was $40 per adult and $12 per child per night....or something like that. I believe this year it went up to $45 per adult. Considering the BWV would have cost $800 a night at the full rack rate I was very happy paying for the DDP. This was during "free" dining. I could have paid $90 per night to stay at a value ROOM and received the dining for free. Instead, I paid about $2 more per night than I would have staying in a value room with free dining and got a 2 BR villa with a much more desirable location and amenities.

You need to compare apples to apples when talking about the promotions.

 

[crisi]

We knew what we were buying was a timeshare, and we don't expect people to lobby for change, our problem is with the way it was sold to us, ie own a peice of the magic, then only to find our home resort is now being sold in travel brochures for 42% off plus free dining, and finding out people who had booked values being upgraded to 1 bedrooms, both of which get full mousekeeping, don't forget its our dues which pay for the upkeep of the resort, We feel like we are being used to subsidize other peoples vacations, and before someone puts (then sell) what they have done has devalued our home resort to an extent selling is not an option at this time, like I said in a pp if they were offering these deals in the US I believe US owners would not like it.

But that's been going on for years - again, its part of what you bought. Just like you have no control if another owner rents their points out for $6 each (which some people don't like) you have no control over what Disney does with the points in their control - as long as they use them within the terms of their contract.

 

[vicki_c]

It concerns me because as you have pointed out you trade your room for as you say a BCV, you then only get DVC mousekeeping, but the person using your home resort gets full mousekeeping as you said paid for by your dues, if this keeps going the way it has for the last few years my resort dues SSR are going to spiral. thats why I'm concerned.

Your concern is unfounded, based on exactly what erion said above. Your dues are not paying for someone to get full housekeeping if they are staying in a DVC room booked on cash through CRO. What they paid for the room is paying for that.

 

[going/again]

Your concern is unfounded, based on exactly what erion said above. Your dues are not paying for someone to get full housekeeping if they are staying in a DVC room booked on cash through CRO. What they paid for the room is paying for that.

so what your saying is , the owner paid dues and CRO sort of paid dues, will look to my MF going down then

 

[dianeschlicht]

It concerns me because as you have pointed out you trade your room for as you say a BCV, you then only get DVC mousekeeping, but the person using your home resort gets full mousekeeping as you said paid for by your dues, if this keeps going the way it has for the last few years my resort dues SSR are going to spiral. thats why I'm concerned.

I'm not sure why that should be such a huge concern. When CRO "sells" a room, it includes housekeeping just like it would at any other CRO room. Disney pays that, not the timeshare owners. It's kind of like the percentages we as owners pay for transportation etc. We don't pay 100% of it, because Disney has to pick up part of that tab. The same goes for mousekeeping for rooms sold by CRO.

 

[DebbieB]

so what your saying is , the owner paid dues and CRO sort of paid dues, will look to my MF going down then

The way that happens is a line in the dues budget called "breakage income". This is for points rooms that were sent to CRO at 60 days or less. If you have your budget for this year that was released at the end of last year, you will see it under income.

The rooms that DVC sends to CRO for trades or rooms that DVC owns does not come back as income to the members.

 

[ccgirl]

so what your saying is , the owner paid dues and CRO sort of paid dues, will look to my MF going down then

You did not pay dues of the person that is paying cash for the resort. That is part of where the cash the person is paying is going to. You also cannot get 40% off and free dining (unless you are from the UK). It is one or the other.

For a cash ressie, Using Feb 12 - Feb 19 a studio at Saratoga Springs would cost $3600 for "free" dining. (or $514 a night)

Taking that same room the full rack rate is $390 per night. The 40% discount would be $244 and that is if they even have one available. The # of 40% villas is extremely limited. So, you woudl be looking at $1708 for the week and cannot add the dining plan (unless you are an AP holder).

If you pay $1,000 yr in maintenance and stay that would mean you are paying $143 plus the portion of your initial investment divided by the number of years of your investment. Don't forget, as a DVC member you can purchase annual passes at a great reduced rate.

Keep in mind that discounts are only offered certain times of the year so if you go expecting discounts you need to go at the less desirable times. This is the first time they have ever released the free dining for a year thing.

BTW, the no housekeeping for resort owners is common at all timeshares. I own two, non DVC, timeshares and we do not get housekeeping while those that "rent for cash" the timeshares do. Doesn't bother me at all. They end paying a lot more than I did.

You are getting confused between inventories. The people getting the 40% discount or free dining are choosing from a whole different inventory. Your maintenance fee has nothing to due with those units.

Hope this clears it up some.

 

[dcamdad]

so what your saying is , the owner paid dues and CRO sort of paid dues, will look to my MF going down then

I hope you're not going to hold your breath.

Also keep in mind that not all inventory is ever sold. DVD/Disney still own a portion of each resort of may do with it as they wish.

 

[crisi]

so what your saying is , the owner paid dues and CRO sort of paid dues, will look to my MF going down then

Since they've been selling or upgrading unused DVC rooms for YEARS, its breakage income is pretty much a constant part of the dues equation now. This isn't new.

 

[Greysword]

...You are getting confused between inventories. The people getting the 40% discount or free dining are choosing from a whole different inventory. Your maintenance fee has nothing to due with those units...

Great post. I am not certain this statement is completely accurate, though. I pay my annual dues, even if I trade my points to the Disney Collection to stay in a Disney hotel or take the cruise. In such case, wouldn't my points be added to the inventory, and by extention, my monthly dues be apart of those units?

Just wanted to clarify. Great post.

 

[ccgirl]

Great post. I am not certain this statement is completely accurate, though. I pay my annual dues, even if I trade my points to the Disney Collection to stay in a Disney hotel or take the cruise. In such case, wouldn't my points be added to the inventory, and by extention, my monthly dues be apart of those units?

Just wanted to clarify. Great post.

I actually have no idea. It is a very good question though. Are there actually 3 inventories then? 1 inventory for the DVC owners, 1 inventory for the CRO, and 1 inventory to bank with RCI? I have no idea if this is true. Just wondering myself.

 

[Chuck S]

Great post. I am not certain this statement is completely accurate, though. I pay my annual dues, even if I trade my points to the Disney Collection to stay in a Disney hotel or take the cruise. In such case, wouldn't my points be added to the inventory, and by extention, my monthly dues be apart of those units?

Just wanted to clarify. Great post.

Yes, BUT, also those rooms are rented to offset the cost of your trade. Really, the argument against cash reservation and upgrades from values is kind of pointless, as without them, there would be no offset for trades outside the DVC system, and the Disney Collection, Adventures by Disney and cruises would not be available for points at all. We either allow the system to work as it is intended, or we lose the right to trade points to non-DVC venues.

Be careful what you wish for.

 

[Greysword]

Going/again, I wanted to thank you for presenting this argument for discusion!

Your's is a great point that many DVC owners likely have, and by bringing it to the board for discusion, it has become an excellent teachable moment for many of us. These are exactly the type of discusions, which enhance the overall body of knowledge, regardless of point of view on the topic at hand.

It also helps to clarify our personal knowledge on a specific topic, as we generally hear bits and pieces of information, and makes us better ambasadors for the community as a whole.

I also want to thank Patty for posting the free dining topic in the forst place. Although a topic may come up in cycles, it affords us the opportunity to answer t the best of our knowledge and clarify a perspective we had and validate te information we think we know. As you can see, sometimes a routine conversation can bring out varying points of view, which lead us into a more gray area or to a questions where only a few members on the boards have specific experience.

To that end, I hope you continue to post questions, kudos, or gripes, as it builds the community as a whole!

- Chris


Post Script: My favorite topic, which comes up frequently, are those revolving around the finance of DVC ownership. This one discussed the financial aspects of our dues and allocations, where others talk about annual fees and the viability of loans.... thats all I have to say about that

 

[TDC Nala]

Easy to say when they don't.

Seriously. I have no need of a room discount (already have one in a deluxe resort through DVC) and I don't want free dining.

If I want to stay onsite without using points I'll stay at the Swan or Dolphin, so it wouldn't matter what Disney offered.

 

[crisi]

I actually have no idea. It is a very good question though. Are there actually 3 inventories then? 1 inventory for the DVC owners, 1 inventory for the CRO, and 1 inventory to bank with RCI? I have no idea if this is true. Just wondering myself.

Lets see....

There is member owned inventory - that is what we book

There is inventory members have traded out - we can't get that back, the member who traded "sold" it to DVC - they paid dues on it - and DVC in turn sold it to RCI or CRO or whomever.

There is developer inventory - we don't own that either and don't have a right to it. That's the stuff that hasn't been sold - or was sold and was foreclosed on. Someone said recently that DVD does pay dues on developer inventory. This is inventory that suddenly appear when you buy new points and can't get the reservation you want, but your guide works magic. Right now, speculation (and those that watch the Orange County tax site) is that DVD is holding a LOT of points from people who walked away when the economy went south.

There is breakage inventory - breakage inventory are points members let expire that DVC reclaims at 60 days and sends to CRO - the rooms CRO resells offsets our dues. These are the rooms that sometimes get miraculously pulled back for member use. The member paid dues on this too, but didn't use the points.

I get four.

 

[going/again]

Great post. I am not certain this statement is completely accurate, though. I pay my annual dues, even if I trade my points to the Disney Collection to stay in a Disney hotel or take the cruise. In such case, wouldn't my points be added to the inventory, and by extention, my monthly dues be apart of those units?

Just wanted to clarify. Great post.

This is what I was trying to say (badly) I must add.

 

[going/again]

- Chris


Post Script: My favorite topic, which comes up frequently, are those revolving around the finance of DVC ownership. This one discussed the financial aspects of our dues and allocations, where others talk about annual fees and the viability of loans.... thats all I have to say about that

Thanks Chris, if we owned where they didn't give 42/45% off every year I don't think we would care, it just to us seems to have devalued, owning a piece of the magic, thought about selling, but as us men know, we aren't really the boss, and as she loves SSR my life is to valuable to risk selling.

 

[going/again]

Great post. I am not certain this statement is completely accurate, though. I pay my annual dues, even if I trade my points to the Disney Collection to stay in a Disney hotel or take the cruise. In such case, wouldn't my points be added to the inventory, and by extention, my monthly dues be apart of those units?

Just wanted to clarify. Great post.

This is what I was trying to say (badly) I must add.

 

[Sandisw]

This is what I was trying to say (badly) I must add.

But remember, if someone trades out of DVC, they are staying somewhere that also needs to be maintained.

Think of it this way. You pay for the upkeep on your DVC room via dues. You choose to stay outside DVC and trade your DVC room for that stay.

The person that DVC rents the room to pays to cover the upkeep of the room you are currently staying in via the trade (along with paying for their own daily mousekeeping).

Or, you can say that the dues you paid for your DVC room were sent to the hotel you traded to to cover the upkeep there.

Either way, if we want the ability to trade out of DVC using our points, then we must give DVC a way to pay for those trades. And, offering the rooms with discounts with or without free dining is up to them. They are the ones that know what they need to get for the rooms to cover the trade and if they can offer them at that discount and still cover our trades, then that is fine with me.

 

[going/again]

Either way, if we want the ability to trade out of DVC using our points, then we must give DVC a way to pay for those trades. And, offering the rooms with discounts with or without free dining is up to them. They are the ones that know what they need to get for the rooms to cover the trade and if they can offer them at that discount and still cover our trades, then that is fine with me.

Are you actually saying that DVC gives rooms away, with or without discounts, as thats what it says above, so if that is true then why cant they offer owners upgrades first,
i.e. studio to 1 bd 1bd to 2bd, surely that cant be fair to owners, if and its a big if, it is DVC giving these discounts.