free dining

[DebbieB]

DebbieB: I don't think DVC wants to open the can of worms

Sorry but they opened the can when they let people who have paid $85 dollars a night at a value, then give them a 1 bedroom at a resort I am paying the upkeep for.

That's not DVC's "can of worms", that was CRO's choice. They have alot of empty rooms at OKW or SSR that they need to rent for cash, even with discounts they are not filling. Members traded out those rooms and they need to get income to pay for those trades. Or DVD owns the rooms and they want to get some income for them. Or the members still own the rooms and they want to get some breakage income for them. The fact is there is not a big demand for these resorts with the general public, even if they offer 40%-45% discounts. They are not close to a park like the others, they are not connected to a hotel that the general public is familiar with.

They have a big demand for the value or moderate resorts but they are all full. So they upgraded people out of the value & moderates to the empty rooms they have at OKW or SSR, which leaves rooms open at resorts that they can sell. Maybe those who were upgraded will consider these resorts in the future or consider buying DVC.

Leaving the OKW or SSR rooms empty with no income does not benefit the members. It will cause points needed to book trades to go up, it will force DVC to limit the number of trades (which has probably already happened with the cruises).

 

[going/again]

You lost me there. If Disney OWNS the rooms they updated those value people to, they are indeed paying upkeep at "our" resort.

Right so my points will get for me example say 2 weeks in a 1 BR, lets say I use my points for a cruise, points I paid dues for, Disney then rents that room to someone who paid $85 dollars a night for. Disney has used my/our dues to do this.

 

[going/again]

This is why so many on the DIS suggest that people do their homework before purchasing. If you had put all these numbers down and looked at them before you bought you may have made a different decision. The only thing any of us really purchased was a right to book reservations in very nice resorts at a deeply discounted rate because we prepaid them when we purchased and agreed to pay maintenance fees to assure they remain very nice places to stay. Anything other than that is a bonus.

You may also have made the same decision you did thinking that these "special offers" could go away at any time. If you book a package you are paying for everything that is included although coming from the UK you get more disocunts than those of us who live in the US. I don't know who can buy a package here in the US that would provide the DVC accommodation, tickets and dining for less than I can do it using my points and buying the DDP if I wished to use it (which I don't because the TIW card works so much better for the way we eat) Plane fares should be the same whether you own DVC or not so they shouldn't even come into the equation. As others have suggested rent your points and use the cash to book a package or sell the whole contract and you won't have to feel like you are being taken advantage of any longer. You can just book those special packages every year with your dues money that you don't have to pay.

True but when we bought they sold SSR as a stand alone DVC resort only way to stay there was buy in, now this is not the case and is being sold by travel agents at massive discounts, How would you have home worked that.

As for the bit about plane fares you don't live in rip of britain, I don't expect you to get that they will sell a package including flights sometimes for not much than the cost of a flight only.

While I am aware we could rent our points, what then is the point of owning.

 

[katdralion]

Totally agree with going/again! This is what I was trying to say in my previous post but I was rushing out the door at the time and made a bit of a hash of it - sorry!

They can get away with this kind of discounting in the UK because there aren't so many DVC owners but I'm sure if this happened in the US there would be a major backlash from disgruntled OKW and SSR owners.

Until this happens, I think we're on our own going/again!

 

[CrazyDuck]

BTW you are not supposed to call it: Free Dining

You are supposed to call it: "Free" Dining

 

[going/again]

You lost me there. It's no different than you or I using our points to stay at BWV or BCV.

Now you lost me, this is DVC to DVC both resorts having dues paid on them.

value to DVC nothing like the same.

 

[dianeschlicht]

Right so my points will get for me example say 2 weeks in a 1 BR, lets say I use my points for a cruise, points I paid dues for, Disney then rents that room to someone who paid $85 dollars a night for. Disney has used my/our dues to do this.

No...YOU used it for the priveledge of trading OUT to get that cruise.

 

[going/again]

No...YOU used it for the priveledge of trading OUT to get that cruise.

Actually we have never traded out I was using it as an example.

I don't think you all in the US will ever get how we feel unless they start these massive double discounts over there.

 

[Chuck S]

I don't see that the 45% Discount with free dining offered to the UK guests is a whole lot different from value resort free dining guests being upgraded to a one bedroom, the "discount" is about the same, and comes from the same room inventory. And the upgrades really have relatively few US owners in an uproar. The inventory is controlled by CRO, not DVC. Those are rooms are either owned by Disney/DVC or turned over to them by owners trading out of the DVC system. It has always worked the same way, except that they are giving deeper cash discounts because of the lousy economy in both the UK and the US. When the economy improves and leisure travel picks up, those upgrades and super-discounts will disappear.

 

[going/again]

When the economy improves and leisure travel picks up, those upgrades and super-discounts will disappear.

Of course they will, don't forget B Iger saying we are going to wean people of the discounts earlier in the year, that lasted what? less than a month, then all the discounts where unveiled, sorry but you only have to look on these boards to see where posters are waiting for a discount or they are not going, Disney has dug a hole they are going to struggle to get out off.

 

[going/again]

I don't see that the 45% Discount with free dining offered to the UK guests is a whole lot different from value resort free dining guests being upgraded to a one bedroom, the "discount" is about the same, and comes from the same room inventory. And the upgrades really have relatively few US owners in an uproar.

The upgrades are different to the discounts, upgrades you may get one, you may not. discounts would be available to all, you may say get 20 people upgraded not so bad, nice for them, you could get 1000s with the double discount, totally different, there would be uproar no matter what you believe.

 

[Chuck S]

Of course they will, don't forget B Iger saying we are going to wean people of the discounts earlier in the year, that lasted what? less than a month, then all the discounts where unveiled, sorry but you only have to look on these boards to see where posters are waiting for a discount or they are not going, Disney has dug a hole they are going to struggle to get out off.

The economy has not improved as rapidly as it was forecast to improve when Iger made that announcement. When that announcement was made, the economy showed better signs of a quick recovery. That did not happen. The economy WILL improve over time, and those discounts will disappear eventually, not as quickly as anyone would like, but eventually it will happen. And some discount have been modified, like the value resort free dining was downgraded to Quick Service. Disney will phase out the discounts when they can.

 

[Chuck S]

The upgrades are different to the discounts, upgrades you may get one, you may not. discounts would be available to all, you may say get 20 people upgraded not so bad, nice for them, you could get 1000s with the double discount, totally different, there would be uproar no matter what you believe.

I seriously doubt there are "1000s" taking advantage of the double UK discount, there would not be enough cash DVC rooms at OKW and SSR to accomodate that for any length of time. And given that both of those resorts are almost fully owned by DVC Members, and that cash availability would be limited to those points owned by Disney or DVC (developers points) and member trades, where would those "1000s" of rooms come from?

 

[going/again]

I seriously doubt there are "1000s" taking advantage of the double UK discount, there would not be enough cash DVC rooms at OKW and SSR to accomodate that for any length of time. And given that both of those resorts are almost fully owned by DVC Members, and that cash availability would be limited to those points owned by Disney or DVC (developers points) and member trades, where would those "1000s" of rooms come from?

They may not limit it to SSR/OKW they could use all the DVC resorts, they are running ads in the papers and on tv, thats not for the benefit of a couple of dozen now is it, ? current offer on tv is 1 week for £599 includes free dining and flights, 2 weeks is far less than our dues alone

 

[Chuck S]

Even using all the DVC resorts, the rooms are limited to the percentage of inventory under control of CRO, which would be 1)owned by Disney through the retained ownership clause 2)unsold points in BLT and points reacquired through default or ROFR AKA Developers Points 3)points turned over to CRO by members trading out and 4)breakage inventory. There aren't 1000s of rooms available, even including all DVC resorts, and so far the double discounted rooms and value upgrades have been limited to SSR and OKW.

The "1000s" of DVC rooms just aren't there.

It really speaks to how lousy the economy is in the UK, since this seems to be the only major area being offered these deep discounts.

 

[DebbieB]

They may not limit it to SSR/OKW they could use all the DVC resorts, they are running ads in the papers and on tv, thats not for the benefit of a couple of dozen now is it, ? current offer on tv is 1 week for £599 includes free dining and flights, 2 weeks is far less than our dues alone

Bottom line is they are not taking rooms owned by DVC members. They are cash rooms controlled by CRO. They need to fill them the best way they can. A room that sits empty has no income. I'd be surprised if they had many rooms available for this discount other than at OKW or SSR. They have a problem filling these resorts because they are not near a park and they are not connected to a hotel with shared ammenities.

Edit - found this on the UK board, it is just OKW & SSR:
http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2558206

 

[Brian Noble]

Right so my points will get for me example say 2 weeks in a 1 BR, lets say I use my points for a cruise, points I paid dues for, Disney then rents that room to someone who paid $85 dollars a night for. Disney has used my/our dues to do this.

Precisely. And, the revenue that they realize from renting that room---at whatever price they can get---is given to the Cruise Line segment of the company to pay for the cruise, rather than making you pay for it. I don't understand the problem here whatsoever.

They may not limit it to SSR/OKW they could use all the DVC resorts, they are running ads in the papers and on tv, thats not for the benefit of a couple of dozen now is it, ? current offer on tv is 1 week for £599 includes free dining and flights, 2 weeks is far less than our dues alone

Entirely possible. Despite the fact that people have explained this to you (over and over), you refuse to accept it. Some of those rooms *must* be sold to the general public, to pay for the Disney Cruises, Adventures by Disney trips, and non-DVC resort stays that the Members desire. Some of those rooms are also owned by Disney---either because they haven't sold the points, they have obtained them through ROFR, or the Member defaulted on their loan. Disney has to pay the Dues on those points, just like anyone else, and they will rent them for whatever they can.

The simple fact is that there are some guests at DVC resorts who spent less to stay there than those who own there did. There are legitimate reasons for this. There are other guests who spent more---most of them, quite a bit more.

 

[going/again]

entirely possible. Despite the fact that people have explained this to you (over and over), you refuse to accept it. .

I don't refuse to accept it as you put, I don't think it's fair to UK owners, and you can all tell me (over&over) nothing will change my mind, there was a recent thread not sure if it was on here or another forum, where one owner was complaining about the no of upgrades, free dining, or massively discounted, people at SSR, mostly BRITS, totally ruined there holiday, smoking every where at the pools was one example he/she used, they said they would never go again to their home resort while free dining etc, was on again, lots of other posters agreed, but what does that do free up another room to give to CRO, so while you sit in judgement thinking what ever you do of me, noted the sarcastic (over & over) l really think till it impacts you as it did the original poster in the thread I mentioned, you have no idea, oh and by the way the poster was a BRIT. now I will wait for the SELL THEN replies, would you US owners sell or would you complain, seeing that a lot of the support the poster mentioned above was from US owners, I can make an educated guess at complain.

 

[going/again]

It really speaks to how lousy the economy is in the UK, since this seems to be the only major area being offered these deep discounts.

Really, yet the pound is gaining strength against the dollar, maybe your question should be, WHY aren't we getting these discounts, I know I would, if I was a non owner.

 

[going/again]

Edit - found this on the UK board, it is just OKW & SSR:
]

I do know for now its just SSR/OKW, I said they may use other resorts, judging by the no of resales on the TS website never seen so many BW/BCV up for sale.
got to be a worrying time for Disney, you may get the massive double discounts over there yet.