free dining

[going/again]

Even using all the DVC resorts, the rooms are limited to the percentage of inventory under control of CRO, which would be 1)owned by Disney through the retained ownership clause 2)unsold points in BLT and points reacquired through default or ROFR AKA Developers Points 3)points turned over to CRO by members trading out and 4)breakage inventory. There aren't 1000s of rooms available, even including all DVC resorts, and so far the double discounted rooms and value upgrades have been limited to SSR and OKW.

The "1000s" of DVC rooms just aren't there.

It really speaks to how lousy the economy is in the UK, since this seems to be the only major area being offered these deep discounts.

So what about the ads they are running, you really think they are spending all that money for a couple of dozen rooms. virgin, thomas cook, aren't stupid they must have more rooms than you think they have, or why waste all that money advertising.

 

[crisi]

There are thousands of room nights. But on any given night there are not thousands of rooms. Especially at SSR, Disney foreclosed on a lot of loans in the last 18 months and didn't resell those points yet. They are there rooms, they get to rent them for whatever they can. Just like if I want to rent my points for $6 each, I can.

This isn't going to change. This has been part of the way Disney has done things since the beginning. Back before 9/11 there were fewer specials - since that point the economy really hasn't been in full swing and Disney has a LOT of hotel rooms. I don't suspect that the deals will go away either, Disney - IMHO - has overbuilt hotels and overbuilt DVC - and they don't appear to be stopping.

So the question to ask yourself now is "is this STILL a good deal for us." And the answer may be no. And I'm not saying this to be mean, we ask ourselves that a lot and keep coming ups with - "well, it isn't a bad deal for us yet." If I lived in the UK and had bought in the late 90s - which means a price around $60 - I'd put my contract up on the resale market. By now, the value of the purchase has come out, you can sell for pretty much what you bought at this point, so your past ten years of vacations would have cost you dues....that's still a good deal. But the value, with the constant UK specials, seems to have diminished, if you bought in the 1990s, you have a short contract life, so the value of the resale is probably going to go down.

Now, a more recent U.S. based SSR owner who bought around $80 - you still have a lot tied up into it - getting out is going to involve taking a loss. In that case, I'd probably still resell, just because you are unhappy and seem to value the bargains.

(For the record, we bought at $63 about ten years ago and at this point feel like our trips are "dues only." Our "is this still a good value" has more to do with Disney as a destination for our family than with DVC itself.)

(I'm an accountant by training, though not by profession, and I tend to be pragmatic and unemotional over things like this. Which is not the norm for people who bought DVC to be "part of the magic" and to "own a little bit of Disney.")

 

[dianeschlicht]

There are thousands of room nights. But on any given night there are not thousands of rooms. Especially at SSR, Disney foreclosed on a lot of loans in the last 18 months and didn't resell those points yet. They are there rooms, they get to rent them for whatever they can. Just like if I want to rent my points for $6 each, I can.

This isn't going to change. This has been part of the way Disney has done things since the beginning. Back before 9/11 there were fewer specials - since that point the economy really hasn't been in full swing and Disney has a LOT of hotel rooms. I don't suspect that the deals will go away either, Disney - IMHO - has overbuilt hotels and overbuilt DVC - and they don't appear to be stopping.

So the question to ask yourself now is "is this STILL a good deal for us." And the answer may be no. And I'm not saying this to be mean, we ask ourselves that a lot and keep coming ups with - "well, it isn't a bad deal for us yet." If I lived in the UK and had bought in the late 90s - which means a price around $60 - I'd put my contract up on the resale market. By now, the value of the purchase has come out, you can sell for pretty much what you bought at this point, so your past ten years of vacations would have cost you dues....that's still a good deal. But the value, with the constant UK specials, seems to have diminished, if you bought in the 1990s, you have a short contract life, so the value of the resale is probably going to go down.

Now, a more recent U.S. based SSR owner who bought around $80 - you still have a lot tied up into it - getting out is going to involve taking a loss. In that case, I'd probably still resell, just because you are unhappy and seem to value the bargains.

(For the record, we bought at $63 about ten years ago and at this point feel like our trips are "dues only." Our "is this still a good value" has more to do with Disney as a destination for our family than with DVC itself.)

(I'm an accountant by training, though not by profession, and I tend to be pragmatic and unemotional over things like this. Which is not the norm for people who bought DVC to be "part of the magic" and to "own a little bit of Disney.")

Excellent post! It's still a good deal for us too. I don't understand why anyone should get their undies in a bunch over discounts at "our" resorts. It just isn't a problem, since it's not our inventory. Now...IF they were overbooking inventory they didn't own, that would be another issue, but they can't legally do that, and if they did, they'd be in mega legal trouble.

 

[eliza61]

Excellent post! It's still a good deal for us too. I don't understand why anyone should get their undies in a bunch over discounts at "our" resorts. It just isn't a problem, since it's not our inventory. Now...IF they were overbooking inventory they didn't own, that would be another issue, but they can't legally do that, and if they did, they'd be in mega legal trouble.

See Diane, great minds think alike.

Sorry guys, I have never been one to let how "others" got a room at Disney ruin my vacation?

Discounts IMO are like store sales. some will benefit me, others will not. I purchased dvc based on "my" vacation criteria. One being that I didn't want to have to be dependant on "gimmicks" to go to the world.

Some one getting an upgrade at the BC in no way impacts my vacation unless of course it prevents me from getting the villa that I reserved. Smoking at non allowable places isn't a result of a marketing campaign, it's a result of rude people who feel rules do not apply to them.

I really never understood the uproar behind "faux-free" dining.

 

[Chuck S]

So what about the ads they are running, you really think they are spending all that money for a couple of dozen rooms. virgin, thomas cook, aren't stupid they must have more rooms than you think they have, or why waste all that money advertising.

Again, there are not thousands of cash DVC rooms available, it seems to be a case of the UK tour packagers (Virgin, Thomas Cook, etc.) being contractually stuck with more DVC cash inventory than they can sell. It sounds as if CRO, once they receive a set number of rooms from DVC, pre-sells a block of the available one bedroom rooms to Virgin and T. Cook, who repackage them them for UK tourists, as UK guests stay longer and appreciate the convenience of a kitchen and in room laundry facilities. But, Virgin and Cook contractually received more rooms than they can sell in the current economy for overseas travel.

CRO likely contractually receives a discounted pre-payment for these rooms from Virgin and Cook, whether or not they rent them out. So now they are having a fire sale, rather than being stuck paying for rooms that are not being used. Again, this would appear to be a reflection on the UK travel industry and travel economy. Even if Virgin and Cook are selling these room at or below their cost, it is likely better than absorbing the full loss of the cost of the room.

So while tourism is definitely down in the US, it is not down to the point that Disney needs to offer these specials to US residents.

 

[going/again]

So now they are having a fire sale, rather than being stuck paying for rooms that are not being used. .

This is not a fire sale as you put it, but bookings for next year, again, these travel companies are not spending all this advertising money for a few rooms,
we are going to agree to disagree on this, you believe what you believe , I will do the same, cheers.

 

[going/again]

I don't suspect that the deals will go away either, Disney - IMHO - has overbuilt hotels and overbuilt DVC - and they don't appear to be stopping.

So the question to ask yourself now is "is this STILL a good deal for us." And the answer may be no.

(I'm an accountant by training, though not by profession, and I tend to be pragmatic and unemotional over things like this. Which is not the norm for people who bought DVC to be "part of the magic" and to "own a little bit of Disney.")

At least its nice to know someone else doesn't think the deals will go away.

It still is a great deal for us as we go for 3 weeks at xmas, their are no discounts at this time.

I've failed miserably to explain what I think is wrong, its the promise of owning a piece of the magic that sold us, Thats the reason we bought at a stand alone resort, if DVC had told us at time of purchase that it would also be sold to travel agents, but with deep discounts, we would have still bought
DVC but not there, this is one of the reasons DVC has been devalued to us.

 

[DebbieB]

At least its nice to know someone else doesn't think the deals will go away.

It still is a great deal for us as we go for 3 weeks at xmas, their are no discounts at this time.

I've failed miserably to explain what I think is wrong, its the promise of owning a piece of the magic that sold us, Thats the reason we bought at a stand alone resort, if DVC had told us at time of purchase that it would also be sold to travel agents, but with deep discounts, we would have still bought
DVC but not there, this is one of the reasons DVC has been devalued to us.

I don't think the deals will go away. Nothing changes at these resorts, they cannot sell the empty rooms for anywhere near rack rate. So year after year, it's the same thing. The only way it will change is if there is something done to make these resorts more popular. One of the selling points for SSR was you would be able to watch the Pleasure Island fireworks from the resort. Well they are gone. So unless they come up with something to attract people there, both members and non-members, it will be the same story.

 

[Chuck S]

This is not a fire sale as you put it, but bookings for next year, again, these travel companies are not spending all this advertising money for a few rooms,
we are going to agree to disagree on this, you believe what you believe , I will do the same, cheers.

I believe what the POS says about how rooms become available for cash reservations. And that does not support your suggestion that there are "1000s" of DVC one bedrooms units available. The POS also details how cash rooms become available.

It appears that the travel companies have contracted more cash rooms for next year than they feel they can sell for a substantial profit, so they are selling them at deep discounts inthe UK. It is not uncommon for companies to contract with hotels for X number of rooms far in advance, convention organizers and vacation packagers do it routinely. But those rooms are not from DVC inventory.

The bottom line is still, if you believe DVC is no longer providing a value to you, you should sell your ownership interest. Even with the currently low resale prices, you'll recover more of your initial purchase outlay with DVC than with many other timeshares.

... if DVC had told us at time of purchase that it would also be sold to travel agents, but with deep discounts, we would have still bought
DVC but not there...

You seem to be inferring that you were somehow misled by DVC as to the continuing value of your purchase, but there is nothing in our documentation that would indicate that they will not have promotions, or that CRO can not discount accommodations to cash guests. In fact, we early purchasers were even warned that OKW may never be completed as planned, or fully sold. Meaning that most of the resort could have remained a cash resort, subject to discounts just like any other Disney hotel.

 

[Greysword]

Actually we have never traded out I was using it as an example.

I don't think you all in the US will ever get how we feel unless they start these massive double discounts over there.

This post shed some light on the subject for me, and I wanted to clarify my position.

Based on the above quote and other posts you've made since then, I now assume you are a citizen of the United Kingdom, versus the United States. This revelation makes me understand that you are correct, in that I unfortunately do not understand your point of view and can not relate to your argument. Due to the distance between your home and Orlando, you have a specific set of challenges that I do not face (by choice, actually). Unfortunately, I assumed you were an American, based on your location signature (10 mile from the castle is obviously NOT refering to Cinderella's ). For that assumption, I apologize, as it likely caused the discussion to drag on without proper context.

Now that I understand your position (from a logical standpoint), I have a couple of items to bring up.

First, if you wish to account for the whole vacation package (lodging, food, and tickets) from Disney, I would like to recommend you do a true comparison. As a DVC member, you have access to significantly reduced food costs throught he use of the full kitchen (or even kitchenette) in the villa. We spend about $100 per trip at the grocer to feed five (on average, as we have guests almost every time that vary in size from 1-4).

Also, please account the posibility for reduced tickets via second party vendors (Undercover Tourist, et cetra), military discounts (if a member of the active of reserves), group discounts (our automobile association would be an example), or travel agencies in the UK.

Second, it is possible and quote easy to rent your points using a third-party vendor. I recommend contacting Dave's Vacation Club Rentals (http://www.dvcrequest.com/), a sponor of the DIS Rent/Trade board (see his add at the top of the page). If it would be more cost effective to sell your points via his serve and use the funds to book the same villa with cash, then please give it a go. You may even have some funds left over to spend on souveniers, a show, or something else. If you break even, then you got the same room plus dining and tickets out of the deal.

In the end, many of us on the board can only provide our point of view on the topic. Just beause your circumstance are unique to those living on a different continent does not invalidate (or even lessen) the overall arguments presented on this thread. In fact, I think it strengthens them, since we now know that your travel habits are not like ours and are unique to the smaller percentage of owners living across the ocean. This does not invalidate your cocerns, but you will have a better time finding a sympathetic ear on the UK boards than you will in the general DVC boards.

- Chris

 

[going/again]

(10 mile from the castle is obviously NOT refering to Cinderella's

Second, it is possible and quote easy to rent your points using a third-party vendor. I recommend contacting Dave's Vacation Club Rentals you may even have some funds left over to spend on souveniers, a show, or something else. If you break even, then you got the same room plus dining and tickets out of the deal.- Chris

The castle is the one in robin hood, and yes its real but doesn't look anything like the hollywood versions.

Money is not a concern, so I would never need to rent, my concern is what I believe, chuck s sort of got it I do believe we were slightly misled, I have no concern over the monetry value of DVC, I just think CRO is devaluing the concept of what it should be, its JMHO, wont be debating this any more, wife's surgery not gone to well.

 

[Brian Noble]

I don't refuse to accept it as you put, I don't think it's fair to UK owners, and you can all tell me (over&over) nothing will change my mind, there was a recent thread not sure if it was on here or another forum, where one owner was complaining about the no of upgrades, free dining, or massively discounted, people at SSR, mostly BRITS, totally ruined there holiday, smoking every where at the pools was one example he/she used, they said they would never go again to their home resort while free dining etc, was on again, lots of other posters agreed, but what does that do free up another room to give to CRO, so while you sit in judgement thinking what ever you do of me, noted the sarcastic (over & over) l really think till it impacts you as it did the original poster in the thread I mentioned, you have no idea, oh and by the way the poster was a BRIT. now I will wait for the SELL THEN replies, would you US owners sell or would you complain, seeing that a lot of the support the poster mentioned above was from US owners, I can make an educated guess at complain.

First, would it kill you to occasionally break your posts into sentences?

Second, I have nothing for or against the Brits. Indeed, they are generally more courteous than the average WDW guest, and I'd rather see more of them, not less. Most of the complaints about "free dining" usually boil down to some sense of classism, so lets call it what it is.

Third, you truly don't seem to understand that not all room-nights are owned by "the Members". Those owned by Disney can be given away at the local homeless shelter, if Disney wishes to do so. The room-nights owned by the Members, on the other hand, are only available to the Members. They can, in turn, do more or less anything they want to as well---within the rules of the POS.

Fourth, I don't see how "you are affected", except that in this case you might be able to stay at a DVC resort less expensively on cash than you can with your points. If so, this is not a bad thing---it is a GOOD thing. Rent your points out, use the proceeds to secure the vacation you desire through one of the package resellers, and make use of the money left over. Enjoy the fact that you have this ability, when your fellow owners here in the Colonies do not.

Such situations have arisen before. Even here in the States, where Disney is often discounting 45% off the room rate, it is often advantageous to use cash rather than points, by a small margin---it depends on the specific resort, room size, and time of year. No one ever guaranteed DVC owners that rooms would never rent for less than they paid. It's uncommon, and in the long run isn't sustainable, but it can happen from time to time. This is one of those times.

What's more, the entities involved here are businesses, beholden to shareholders. They are not going to take an even larger loss on unsold room nights just to preserve some abstract sense of owners' value---especially not in the case of the third-party resellers who find themselves with inventory that they don't expect to move. If you insist that they should, this will not be the last time you are disappointed.

 

[crisi]

At least its nice to know someone else doesn't think the deals will go away.

It still is a great deal for us as we go for 3 weeks at xmas, their are no discounts at this time.

I've failed miserably to explain what I think is wrong, its the promise of owning a piece of the magic that sold us, Thats the reason we bought at a stand alone resort, if DVC had told us at time of purchase that it would also be sold to travel agents, but with deep discounts, we would have still bought
DVC but not there, this is one of the reasons DVC has been devalued to us.

It sounds like its still a good deal FOR YOU. And therefore, stop worrying about if someone else is getting a better deal that you couldn't or wouldn't take advantage of anyway.

I am confused though. SSR has been available to book for cash since before it opened. At no point has Disney ever intended for it to be available exclusively to members. OKW, the other standalone resort, has always been available for cash - and historically was often deeply discounted for cash even before SSR opened. I think you made an unfounded assumption when you purchased - and perhaps your guide even implied it.

 

[DebbieB]

So what about the ads they are running, you really think they are spending all that money for a couple of dozen rooms. virgin, thomas cook, aren't stupid they must have more rooms than you think they have, or why waste all that money advertising.

I'm sure they are not just advertising these 2 resorts. They probably have offers for all WDW resorts. May not all be both a % off and free dining. From the postings on the UK board, the % off and free dining was only at OKW & SSR. They also advertise many other US cities.

 

[JaxDisneyFans]

wont be debating this any more, wife's surgery not gone to well.

Hope your wife is feeling better soon.

 

[Greysword]

The castle is the one in robin hood, and yes its real but doesn't look anything like the hollywood versions.

I'm not falling for this again, so I'm going to ask. Which Robin Hood? Do you mean the Russell Crow version, Jonas Armstrong version, Kevin Costner version, Erol Flynn version, or the real Robin Hood?

...my concern is what I believe, chuck s sort of got it I do believe we were slightly misled, ...I just think CRO is devaluing the concept of what it should be.

I agree that it is probable that the guides did not fully disclose the whole truth. I also think that Disney (DVC and CRO) was sort of blindsided by the severity of the whole economic downturn, which began in America in the late 1990s. No one really knew how far things would drop, and it seems Disney Resorts division is definately on a "survival of the fittest" run. Luckily for us, I believe the economy will begin strengthening again in the next few years, and our ownership will return to its true value not long after.

We will be basking in the glory of savings once again in the next decade (or so). Boy, that sounds like a long time, but in DVC years, it's actually kind of short .

...Third, you truly don't seem to understand that not all room-nights are owned by "the Members".

In defense of going (such a it is), I believe he fully understands all (as much as me know as a collective, anyway) the aspects of ownership, he just doesn't like it and is railling against it, whichis fine. Unfortunately in the case of DVC, our friends outside of the States are directly affected by our economy and corporate decisions, which seems to be the foundation of his concerns (if I am interpreting the underlying meaning correctly).

 

[vicki_c]

Hope your wife is feeling better soon.

Me too.

 

[CrazyDuck]

I'm not falling for this again, so I'm going to ask. Which Robin Hood? Do you mean the Russell Crow version, Jonas Armstrong version, Kevin Costner version, Erol Flynn version, or the real Robin Hood?

I think he means Disney's version, with the cartoon fox!