Free Dining Value guests hoping for SSR-OKW again

[DVCSAMNH]

"Disney doesn't love us"

Hmmmm. Could be part of the reason for the sentiment on this thread. There's been a lot of bad feeling lately about room conditions, really late check-ins, missing mugs, disappearing perks, disappearing partner hotels and resorts. Disney does, understandably, spend a lot of time and money courting new members while things don't seem to be as "magical" as they used to be for the rest of us.

It would be nice for us to see them focus inward. I stayed at a Hampton Inn in North Carolina this weekend that was immaculate. It really made me take notice. No inch of dust on the woodwork or dirt in the caulking.

 

[CarolA]

Don't think for a second that Disney's doing any of these upgrades or free dining to be "nice" to people. As PP said, it's marketing....it's business. But I still believe DVC members have given Disney billions in revenue as a group - we're a loyal bunch of Disney customers that will pump money into Disney for years and years to come so I can see the "slap in the face mentality" as relevent.

Heck we see it as a "slap in the face" on this board when we don't get FREE DINING, when we don't get the "ticket deal of the month", when we don't get "Welcome Home", when we don't get our requests granted and so on.

And those folks paying room rates have ginve "billions" and actually are pumping MORE money in each year probably then you and I. One of the reasons most of us BOUGHT DVC was to "protect" ourselves from those rising prices. So in theory if I go to Disney every year for 20 years and spend a few weeks at a Disney resort I probably have given Disney MORE then the DVC owner who is so proud of all they spent!

This won't be anything new.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

Don't think for a second that Disney's doing any of these upgrades or free dining to be "nice" to people. As PP said, it's marketing....it's business. But I still believe DVC members have given Disney billions in revenue as a group - we're a loyal bunch of Disney customers that will pump money into Disney for years and years to come so I can see the "slap in the face mentality" as relevent.

The last quarterly report, DVC was partly responsible for the 33% increase in overall revenue. Lets not take this lightly.....DVC resort expansion is factored into their projected revenues.....not free dining, free tickets, free room upgrades. Part of their bread and butter is DVC..... they ought to be giving some back. Many business models have this incorporated in them. And yes, it is a slap in the face. JMHO.

 

[starbox]

It's MARKETING! It's not a "slap in the face" and it's not a personal attack.

I know it's marketing, but I think it's short-sighted and stupid marketing.

Sure, "giving away" free dining and upgrading penny-pinching value guests to villas so you can double book the values will fill the rooms with warm bodies during hurricane season - but Disney is taking a loss on those freebies - a loss that gets made up for by cutting corners in other areas (like reducing the value of dining w/cheaper ingredients and smaller portions - in general and on the DDP)

I think re-investing in the parks - new rides, parades, fireworks, etc - would be a smarter stategy/investment to draw in more guests consistently. I think the Pirate and Princess party, MNSSHP, MVMCP, Star Wars Weekends, and Food and Wine all attract guests and are positive ways to market Disney vacations. EE did more long term good for AK's attendance than any "free AK admission with any ticket - or "free dining while you are in AK" promo would have done.

 

[RLRDA]

And those folks paying room rates have ginve "billions" and actually are pumping MORE money in each year probably then you and I. One of the reasons most of us BOUGHT DVC was to "protect" ourselves from those rising prices. So in theory if I go to Disney every year for 20 years and spend a few weeks at a Disney resort I probably have given Disney MORE then the DVC owner who is so proud of all they spent!

Disney has been expanding DVC at the pace it has been because it is very, very profitable for them. The members who have bought through Disney have either paid the money up front or financed in which case DVC gets the interest on the loans as well. We all pay the maintenance fees for the upkeep of the DVC properties. We get the protection from rising hotel costs, they get our $$$ - we get it. As the hotel costs rise year after year Disney has to pay all of the higher costs associated with that (higher utilities, wages, maintenance on the aging resorts, etc). Disney can't be making as much profit (room wise) from the hotel guests.

 

[spiceycat]

if you think disney is bad - just go see Westgate- because of PROMOTIONS you can get a 2-bedroom per night for $29....

letting the public have rooms in a timeshares or hotel to visit the timeshare is what more timeshare companies do - yes even Hilton, Hyatt and Marriott.

the public gets these rooms at a great discount.

DVC tried this last year to get more bodies to see the DVC models. seeing that DVC generally sells itself. the guides don't like it either. but it does bring more bodies to DVC and hopefully some of these will buy.

if enough brought last year then they might do it again. won't think it will be Pop again - might be a moderate this time. Especially POR or POFQ - they are closer to OKW and SSR - which were the 2 resorts participating last time.

marketing did this with HH and VB - the villa is less if you take the timeshare tour.

it is something all timeshares do. sorry if it oftens you.

 

[Chuck S]

DVC is short term high profit from sales. Cash rentals are long term high profit. Both are needed in todays economy.

For instance, looking at January 2008, a studio at OKW would cost 348 points for the month. At roughly $7 per point (and that is a high estimate for those that purchased early) that would be $2436. At $250 per night rental, that would be $7,750 plus tax for all 31 nights. Assuming that the $7 covers all operating expenses of the resort, and planned rehabs, a cash rental would be an extra $5,000 in Disney's pocket for renting the room for a month. But short term, a $16,000 one time purchase looks good on the books, with all long term operating expenses being picked up by the DVC owner.

Of course, there are additional marketing costs to a CRO reservation, but even figuring $1500 in marketing for the month, cash rentals rake in the money. The problem with relying solely on cash rentals, is economic downturns and unexpected circumstances, like 9-11 when cash tourism can slow to a crawl. This is where DVC has an advantage, it is prepaid, whether we actually use it or not, we (the owners) have willingly assumed the economic risks.

Both DVC and CRO transactions are very good for Disney, and they compliment each other. But once they have our membership money, they no longer need to spend much on marketing to fill DVC rooms. Thus they don't need to offer us free dining, or any other peks, for that matter. Even if a DVC room sits empty, Disney isn't out any $$.

In good economic times, with lots of cash travel, the cash reservations are a cash cow. In lean times, DVC and local visitors keep the company going.

 

[CarolA]

Chuck
I think you have great points, but on the DIS I doubt you will get far with this line of thinking!

As Spiceycat pointed out this is a tried and true marketing technique that WORKS! Disney is not doing it because they don't love you, but because they want to more of you to love!


Only on the DIS

(I can't wait for the fun if they do!!!! )

 

[crisi]

And those folks paying room rates have ginve "billions" and actually are pumping MORE money in each year probably then you and I. One of the reasons most of us BOUGHT DVC was to "protect" ourselves from those rising prices. So in theory if I go to Disney every year for 20 years and spend a few weeks at a Disney resort I probably have given Disney MORE then the DVC owner who is so proud of all they spent!

That's my confusion with the line of argument. Most of us bought DVC because it was a great value for the way we travel. We lock in prices. We don't worry about codes. We aren't waiting for the email from CRO that upgrades us, or making cow eyes at the desk clerk hoping to get a Savannah view comped.

Ten years from now, I'll still get my 282 point two bedroom at Boardwalk Villa for the week - dues will be more. And ten years from now, how much will a room over at the Inn run?

If you aren't getting the value from DVC, sell it. That value may include to you the touchy feely "I want to get treated better than I do" and that's fine - but touchy feely is rumored to have been around back in the early OKW as "The Disney Vacation Club" days - but it hasn't been part of the program since I've been around. And I think if you expect it, you'll be disappointed more often than you are pleased.

 

[starbox]

For instance, looking at January 2008, a studio at OKW would cost 348 points for the month. At roughly $7 per point (and that is a high estimate for those that purchased early) that would be $2436. At $250 per night rental, that would be $7,750 plus tax for all 31 nights. Assuming that the $7 covers all operating expenses of the resort, and planned rehabs, a cash rental would be an extra $5,000 in Disney's pocket for renting the room for a month.

Right, but if they start renting the rooms at value rates - it's no longer making them money. Disney is paying whatever the excange rate was on the points the member traded to Interval or Concierge or whatever, paying for daily mousekeeping on villas, but is recouping only value rates.

Good marketing protects brand image. Otherwise, you're robbing Peter to pay Paul.

DVC is a valuable Disney brand - but, IMHO, they need to protect the image of DVC villas as deluxe-level Disney accomodations. Do upgrades from other deluxe resorts (a 1 bedroom at a DVC from a regular room) or charge cash rates for DVC accomodations that are on par with deluxe resort rates.

 

[BEASLYBOO]

That's my confusion with the line of argument. Most of us bought DVC because it was a great value for the way we travel. We lock in prices. We don't worry about codes. We aren't waiting for the email from CRO that upgrades us, or making cow eyes at the desk clerk hoping to get a Savannah view comped.

Ten years from now, I'll still get my 282 point two bedroom at Boardwalk Villa for the week - dues will be more. And ten years from now, how much will a room over at the Inn run?

If you aren't getting the value from DVC, sell it. That value may include to you the touchy feely "I want to get treated better than I do" and that's fine - but touchy feely is rumored to have been around back in the early OKW as "The Disney Vacation Club" days - but it hasn't been part of the program since I've been around. And I think if you expect it, you'll be disappointed more often than you are pleased.

Well said! As you've stated before, It's not for everyone and if it's not for you, sell it!

 

[ZekeKelso]

I think if the first little girl's parents paid 100 bucks to join the "Mickey Balloon Club Family" and got a little red balloon - and then a CM walked up the kid next to her and gave her a free huge Princess balloon, and then also gave her a tiara and also a private meet and greet with Cinderalla - it would be a slap in the face. And, I think, bad PR for the "Mickey's Balloon Club".

It's the end of the day, and the princess ballOon is going to waste. Which would make the first family happier - if Disney threw the pricess ballon away or gave it to another little girl that has no balloon?

If you are happy with the Mickey BalloOn Club, you should be happy with the club. If Disney does something nice for a littel girl, that shouldn't make you less happy. If Disney does something that doesn't affect you in any way, and makes somebody else happy, why would that be upsetting?

 

[starbox]

If Disney does something that doesn't affect you in any way, and makes somebody else happy, why would that be upsetting?

Well, I think it all has to do with the concept of the "membership club". If I pay thousands of dollars to join a local member's swimming pool - and then the pool begins to open to the public for 1 dollar - then the benefits of the membership I paid for are going to get diluted and although the pool may be filled with hundreds of swimmers paying a dollar to get in, it's going to go bankrupt in a couple of years when all the members stop supporting the pool.

I'm not saying I want free DVC to offer things or free dining (I don't - I actually think free didning is a horrible idea in general), or more perks (again, I don't use 99% of the ones we have so I have no interest in new ones), or a warm touchy-feely vibe (again, I don't).

I'm also in no way against doing nice things for others - seriously, I work in the inner city with disdvantaged youth. I'd give them all free trips to Disney if I could. We seek out families to do nice things for when we are on vacation. If you knew me at all, you'd know that I'd be the one buying the balloon and giving it to the kid.

All I am saying is that if using DVC inventory as a way to double book value inventory becomes a regular (annual) event - I believe it will end up hurting the brand. Does that affect me DVC owners?

Yes.

 

[CarolA]

Right, but if they start renting the rooms at value rates - it's no longer making them money. Disney is paying whatever the excange rate was on the points the member traded to Interval or Concierge or whatever, paying for daily mousekeeping on villas, but is recouping only value rates.

Good marketing protects brand image. Otherwise, you're robbing Peter to pay Paul.

DVC is a valuable Disney brand - but, IMHO, they need to protect the image of DVC villas as deluxe-level Disney accomodations. Do upgrades from other deluxe resorts (a 1 bedroom at a DVC from a regular room) or charge cash rates for DVC accomodations that are on par with deluxe resort rates.

A. Disney still OWNED most of those villas they gave away last year so the costs were sunk for them until they sold the units.

B. I find these theories taht Disney needs to protect the brand funny! Disney "deluxe" hotels aren't "Deluxe" they just are pretty hotels with high price tags. (It takes more then that to make a deluxe) I think what folks on here are afraid of being "diluted" is thier image of themselves as DVC owners. A lot of those people staying in "value" are like me. We could afford deluxe we just don't want to be ripped off by Disney anymore.

 

[Deb & Bill]

Some of you newer members should be really upset because I bought my first points for $52 a point in 1997.

 

[starbox]

Some of you newer members should be really upset because I bought my first points for $52 a point in 1997.

Wasn't that back in the ye olde days when gas was 1.87 a gallon?

I think it's awesome that DVC has held it's value and has kept up with current prices/inflation over the past ten years!!! In fact, I'm sure it's members just like you that were the encouragement for newer members to join.

DVC has done a fabulous job expanding and maintining the value of their resorts. Ten years later - you have points worth more than you paid for them and a whole collection of quality new DVC resorts to visit.
Here's hoping for another ten years!

 

[Judique]

Wasn't that back in the ye olde days when gas was 1.87 a gallon?

I think it's awesome that DVC has held it's value and has kept up with current prices/inflation over the past ten years!!! In fact, I'm sure it's members just like you that were the encouragement for newer members to join.

DVC has done a fabulous job expanding and maintining the value of their resorts. Ten years later - you have points worth more than you paid for them and a whole collection of quality new DVC resorts to visit.
Here's hoping for another ten years!

Here Here for another 10 years!

In 1997, gas was in the 1.15 to 1.30 range.

And, in 2000, my DVC points cost me 56.75 a point for BWV.

 

[PinkTink63]

I know it's marketing, but I think it's short-sighted and stupid marketing.

Sure, "giving away" free dining and upgrading penny-pinching value guests to villas so you can double book the values will fill the rooms with warm bodies during hurricane season - but Disney is taking a loss on those freebies - a loss that gets made up for by cutting corners in other areas (like reducing the value of dining w/cheaper ingredients and smaller portions - in general and on the DDP)

I think re-investing in the parks - new rides, parades, fireworks, etc - would be a smarter stategy/investment to draw in more guests consistently. I think the Pirate and Princess party, MNSSHP, MVMCP, Star Wars Weekends, and Food and Wine all attract guests and are positive ways to market Disney vacations. EE did more long term good for AK's attendance than any "free AK admission with any ticket - or "free dining while you are in AK" promo would have done.

I'm kind of with you on this one!

We have always gone during hurricane season, partly because we would rather it not be so crowded and we have to go in the summer. I plan in advance and save all year for our trip. Our tax return goes in the bank for our trip, I have a money can and I do a yard sale every July for our vacation fund. So I was a little bummed out last year when they announced FD during when I was booked! Now, to top it off, I find out that people who were paying for value resorts got to stay in 1 and 2 bedrooms while we were staying in a studio, because we have to be frugal with the amount of points we have. That is a little bothersome to me! We as members are paying for the wear and tear on these resorts!

Now, don't get me wrong, because we love our DVC, but the decision to buy was a way to stay in deluxe accomodations and we paid a premium price for it. It wasn't necessarily the best financial decision, but more of an emotional one! We had always stayed in moderates before and we have never had FD. I don't really even care about FD, but in this case, it only adds insult to injury!
I don't begrudge people for getting free things, and I don't know if it truly was a glitch or just greed on Disney's part, but I hope it doesn't happen again!

I beg to differ with the rational that people who only stay in value resorts that are put into DVC are ultimately going to spend more money at Disney. We still spend the same amount at out DVC, if not more than we ever did staying in mods. What we don't spend on the room, we make up for in the stores, dining, and extras. JMO!

 

[fkj2]

If I thought I could take a chance and get a one-bedroom with free dining for 100 bucks a night - there is no way on earth I'd plunk down 16,000 plus a commitment of 50 years of paying more annual fees every single year than my entire week of free dining vacations cost just to get the same room and no free dining.

Ummm...I'd tend to think along the same line as DebbieB; this is a marketing ploy to dangle DVC memberships to a new audience. I took a look at the linked thread, and several posters referenced their reservation as "being flagged." That sounds to me like Disney took a look at how many times those folks vacationed at WDW and may be targeting those who vacationed there often as potential new DVC owners. It would be interesting to know the criteria that caused those reservations to be noted for upgrades.

 

[CarolMN]

......All I am saying is that if using DVC inventory as a way to double book value inventory becomes a regular (annual) event - I believe it will end up hurting the brand. Does that affect me DVC owners?

Yes.

They are not using DVC inventory. Members have no right to the rooms Disney uses for that promotion. It's no different than me renting out my "share" of the resort". What difference does it make if I occupy the room or allow a family member, friend or renter to occupy it? What I charge or don't charge them is my business.

I'm glad that people are hoping to be upgraded to a DVC resort - to me that shows the "brand" is valued by those folks.

That said, I do feel bad if the item I just bought at full price goes on sale and I can't get a credit. Maybe that is more what you mean.

Perhaps the difference is that I don't feel like I joined an exclusive club. I just purchased a prepaid vacation plan and it doesn't bother me if other people get a good deal, too. I'm happy for them.