FP + What we know and what we want to know

[bcrook]

Of course all of what you say is included but I still believe that complaints about the current Fastpass system started the ball rolling.

Yes I agree. As always, thanks for your insight. I think the difference is Disney never intended FP to evolve this way. We have created the current model of FP distribution, and it doesn't fit their original vision. So this is a system overhaul to align it with original intent. Disney never dreamed millions of people would maximize this perk to end up standing in more lines - maximizing ride time at expense of the minor rides, shows and attractions. I don't think anybody abused anything, I just think people took the FP program in a direction that was not intended.

This is what mesaboy2 has been, saying. Nobody did anything wrong - evolution of the system deviated from the true intent. I think everybody is starting to understand that now.

If I am understanding Dadddio correctly, I think he saying that the current FP system is not a problem, and that Disney is going to help us use it better and more frequently. I think, Dadddio is holding out for 3 advanced FP+, "surprise and delight" offers from Disney throughout the day, and access to FP+ leftover slots the day of once we get to the park. The phone apps and kiosks will make our park experience more pleasant because we can pick our times for the reminding FP and we don't have to run all over the park to get them at site specific locations.

Those are two completely different philosophies. One built on changing the model of crowd distribution and one based on making a customer perk more efficient.

I hope Dadddio is right.

 

[linzbear]

And will these iPads be able to tell the difference between myself and my 19 year old son? If so how? Are our pictures or my age going to be in a linked database?

Nope. But they can pretty well determine who is in a certain group as they walk in the door (they are the new people to show up on the list). And they'll just read you the same way psychics do. If Mickey says "Happy Birthday, Carl!" to both of you, all of the attention in your party will be shifted toward the one with the birthday - and then Mickey knows which one of you is Carl.

You could deadpan it to trick Mickey, but what fun is that?

 

[bcrook]

Obviously this thread is called fp+ so I understand we are all interested in fp. But I still don't believe that this move has been made to fix the problem of super users. I feel that is small thinking. Disney is a big thinker place. It has Blue Sky ideas. The sky's the limit. They aren't sentimental. They move forward. Like Kodak didn't.

Kodak loved film. And they marketed to women. So when the world went digital they didn't adapt. They were sentimental. And they were unwilling to change their advertising to include men and kids, who now that pictures were digital, would be taking them. And they filed for bankruptcy in 2012.

Disney is changing. It's commercials aren't just about little kids. They are about childless couples and dads with teenagers. And they are going digital. Because they don't want to be Kodak.

Those e-ticket coupons stopped being distributed in 1982. Because Disney moves forward. And aren't you glad? Because then it really was paying to ride each and every ride. And no way around the line.

Blockbuster
Borders
Circuit City

Digital or die. So I do think Disney is going to use this new system to stop super users of fp. And we might be sad. Those who are determined to be sad and mad will be. I might be. I was worried about fp enforcement. It was a factor and did diminish slightly my riding. But really not by much. And I was there in the summer this year. However, I do not believe at all that this is the main purpose. To fix a tiny problem.

They aren't trying to fix a problem. They are trying to create a new experience.

Maybe fp+ will be a failure. But I doubt it. I think in 5 years every theme park will follow Disney in the RFID bracelet. I truly believe they are trend setting here. Goodness knows I hope Cedar Point follows. Their lines need help.

I enjoyed your comments about the extinct companies.

Disney has allowed other theme parks to experiment with this first and "report back". . The great wolf lodge and Luna park highlighted on the first page have been using it for awhile. Disney had combined the magicband with FP and specifically pre booking rides. That is the Disney wrinkle.

Disney is changing its own DNA.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

How do you see this working out? You haven't really explained (and you have criticized many other scenarios). I have decisions to make in the near future, provide a new line of thinking for me please. I can only see one.

You appear to be missing the point I've made repeatedly -- unlike so many on here, I don't think that I have enough info to say exactly how it will work out! I have no "inside info" nor any obligation to provide anyone with a "new line of thinking" on this.

I am criticizing those who are CERTAIN this will be horrible, and posit nothing but doomsday scenarios -- and yet keep coming back to Disney for more after their past doomsday predictions fell flat. Does it not get a tad old to you occasionally?

What I do know is that Disney is a well-run company. Not magic, not perfect, but well-run. If they've put $1B into this, I think they'll probably make the thing work -- and the technology provides many possibilities for current and future use, and for tweaks of many sorts over time.

I wrote a business school thesis on Disney Parks. I was astonished at how LITTLE customized marketing (to the individual) that they were actually equipped to do! Disconnected databases, siloed SBUs, double-marketing, etc. Part of our thesis had to include recommendations to Disney. One of mine was to further individualize their marketing -- much like Harrah's had done for years... they track your every action (not every move, exactly -- it's not GPS -- calm down people ) while you're on their property and tailor offers to you while you're still onsite... and after you leave, of course.

So I guess what I expect is for Disney to do at least as well as Harrah's in individualized marketing (now that they finally appear to be going after it full-force), and I expect some pretty cool experiences along the way. TA-DA! There's my big scenario! And because it's Disney, they'll continue personalizing and customizing the experience for guests -- and they can stretch this across their SBUs. They're likely expecting to affect guest flow throughout the parks and other things that will aim to ultimately make the parks more "efficient". What I expect, is probably a bunch of things that I'm not currently expecting! I just don't expect them all to be BAD!

The rest is details -- they'll adjust all sorts of things in implementation -- that's how ANY big rollout of ANYTHING goes. That's why I think it's sIlly to quibble over little details -- that we don't even know will stick, or that we've COMPLETELY MADE UP OVER HERE ON DIS -- at this point.

 

[Robo]

That's why I think it's sIlly to quibble over little details -- that we don't even know will stick, or that we've COMPLETELY MADE UP OVER HERE ON DIS -- at this point.

What they have actually done to FP... already... I dislike.

And, they have yet to make the same changes to FP use at Disneyland.

That speaks volumes to me.
Even if they DO ultimately make those changes at DLR, the fact that they put off doing so
for such a long time says something about its value to guests.

 

[dadddio]

I think that one trap that we fall into is when we try to think of the implementation of nextgen/my magic+/magic bands/FP+/etc as trying to do just one thing. I believe that FP+ was developed to do a few things.

First, I think that it will spread the FPs for the big rides out over a greater population, since us super-user (anybody else hate that term?) won't be able to obtain multiple FP+s for the same ride. This will do a couple things. First, it will have a greater number of unique people using the FP return lines. This alone will make a greater number of people happy and give them more time to spend money elsewhere. Another result of this, I believe is that fewer people will choose to ride the big rides multiple times because they won't wish to wait in the standby line for rerides. This reduces the standby line somewhat. It doesn't reduce it greatly simply because some people who didn't previously ride the ride will now do so either with FPs or I the somewhat shorter SB line, since they saved some park time by riding some other ride using FP+.

I further believe that the expansion of FPs to additional rides and attractions will indeed reduce the number of FP+s that are preselected for the big rides as it allows guests the ability to cater to their individual needs. I know that a number of the rides and attractions for which people have sarcastically suggested that people might get stuck with FP+s are things that my family might certainly choose to get FPs for since my kids are young and we don't really utilize the big rides much currently.

Let's be clear. If we are restricted to one big ride FP, I will be a little bummed. That being said, It could still work out fine since we don't really know how implementation will effect the lines in general because none of us are privy to Disney's modeling.

(FP and FP+ are used pretty much interchangeably in this post as it is really discussing the FP situation after full implementation. In general, I tend to refer to FP+ as the preselected variant and FP as 'same day' selection or using a FP or FP+ to ride a ride, but sometimes, I am lazy and use FP for FP and FP+ since I believe that the current FP system must go away when FP+ is implemented, if only because no paper tickets will exist once my magic+/magic bands are fully implemented.

 

[dadddio]

What they have actually done to FP... already... I dislike.

And, they have yet to make the same changes to FP use at Disneyland.

That speaks volumes to me.
Even if they DO ultimately make those changes at DLR, the fact that they put off doing so
for such a long time says something about its value to guests.

What have they 'already' done to FPs other than police return times?

 

[mom2rtk]

Lots to think about here. I have contended all along that there was a "missing link" here somewhere. That nothing we had seen announced yet would produce the kind of revenue Disney will need as a payoff to what they have invested.

The discussion does have things coming a little more into focus. I can sort of see where they are going with it. They apparently have a vision. (And it's not about punishing "superusers").

But I'm sad. I love Disney the way it is. I feel like we have a special family restaurant. A place we go and all love the menu. It's "our" place. And they just announced that they are changing the menu. They have promised we will love the new menu. They promise it will be better than the old menu. And it might BE great. But the old menu is still gone.

Oh, and to try the new menu out, it's going to require that we spend multiple thousands of dollars.

Sorry, I didn't ask for a new restaurant. So I'm just not excited about it. If that makes me resistant to change, well DUH. I've lived with myself all these years. I knew that already.

 

[HelenParr]

On MMM post...Your reasoning makes sense if the issue is justifying Disney management decisions on marketing etc. And it is cool that you were able to study Disney as part of your schooling process. But dismissing the concerns of guests, many of whom have a great deal of Disney experience, as "details" that will be worked out over time seems to under emphasize that the "details" are what will affect, if not decide, whether each of us individually has a great park experience...and in this case relative to our current park experience with FP. Macro economics, marketing strategies, and corporate decision making are at play, and I want Disney to succeed. But I am still confident that what has been described for FP+ so far will diminish my park experience. And I believe that Disney has not assessed downside potential properly.

 

[Disney_Princess83]

The problem is, this thread's entire theory of how it will work is based on suppositions like 'They're only going to let me have a FP for one e-ticket ride'. Disney hasn't stated this, at all. It's all just wild speculation of a thread that's out of control and the word of someone who won't share where his 'knowledge' comes from but is known to have not worked for Disney in many years. Still, in the greatest Internet way, he declares things to be gospel with complete confidence, so is completely believed.

Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with your believing in that speculation, but what we have is people declaring that the speculation is 'truth' and then other people coming to this thread and the others, seeing these statements and taking them for policy and then freaking out. That's not good, at all.

We don't really know much of anything, everyone has been mostly speculation, conjecture and people saying they have inside knowledge. I'm just going to wait until WDW announces the real FP+ system

 

[doconeill]

The rest is details -- they'll adjust all sorts of things in implementation -- that's how ANY big rollout of ANYTHING goes. That's why I think it's sIlly to quibble over little details -- that we don't even know will stick, or that we've COMPLETELY MADE UP OVER HERE ON DIS -- at this point.

I don't think we are completely making things up. We are extrapolating based on all the available information.

Like the tiering of attractions - No, Disney has not said thy will be tiered. However, they have been tiered for every test, and that includes the "tests" that weren't presented as tests as far back as 2009, the Birthday/GAD FP cards. Before that they tested the "one per person" idea with Dream Fastpasses. Haven't seen that again, they must not have deemed that as desirable.

So it seems pretty certain to me that attractions will be tiered.

Then, if they are tiered, and we only have three choices we can make in advance (and that HAS come direct from Disney), then obviously we're not getting to select all three from one tier - otherwise there is no point to the tiers. Which tier gets short-changed? It doesn't take Spock or Dr. Sheldon Cooper to see the logic that the "E-ticket" tier will be the one.

It's all logical extrapolation - filling the void. Is it the only possible extrapolation? Not necessarily...additional information might change that if/when we have it. We don't yet. And it doesn't mean that they won't change things. 3 FP+ choices are not set in stone either even though it's been announced.

And you know what happens when we come up with all these ideas and scenarios about how things may or may not work? Word gets back to the people in charge, and sometimes they go, "Oh, we've already taken that into account..." or "Wow, we didn't think of that..." and perhaps things CAN change before they are too broken.

I'm sure mousemerf keeps them apprised of our thoughts. And he has already said that "social media" has gotten them to rethink some things already...I forget what it was though (the $50 pin-free room charge?)

 

[HelenParr]

We know quite a bit from the official blog article and MDE text. While we do not know if they will change things, or need more "fixes" we can hypothesize fairly well.

 

[dadddio]

You're reasoning makes sense if the issue is justifying Disney management decisions on marketing etc. And it it cool that you were able to study Disney as part of your schooling process. But dismissing the concerns of guests, many of whom have a great deal of Disney experience, as "details" that will be worked out over time seems to under emphasize that the "details" are what will affect, if not decide, whether each of us individually has a great park experience...and in this case relative to our current park experience with FP. Macro economics, marketing strategies, and corporate decision making are at play, and I want Disney to succeed. But I am still confident that what has been described for FP+ so far will diminish my park experience. And I believe that Disney has not assessed downside potential properly.

Two thoughts:

1) I have no reason to believe that the concerns of guests have been dismissed. The mere fact that they haven't released all of the info and that they don't pop into this thread in an official capacity does not mean that they haven't heard their customers concerns and aren't reacting to them.

2) I wouldn't put to much stock into online speculation as to how FP+ will work when implemented. It may indeed be the worse thing ever. It may be awesome, however. We just don't know yet.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Obviously this thread is called fp+ so I understand we are all interested in fp. But I still don't believe that this move has been made to fix the problem of super users. I feel that is small thinking. Disney is a big thinker place. It has Blue Sky ideas. The sky's the limit. They aren't sentimental. They move forward. Like Kodak didn't.

Disney does more surveys than just about any company out there. ANd might they have determined that there was a "FP problem" to solve? Maybe. But they didn't spend $1B to solve a FP problem. I totally agree with estherhead -- they are looking at a much bigger picture -- they've proven to be that sort of company at inception and over the years.

What they have actually done to FP... already... I dislike.

And, they have yet to make the same changes to FP use at Disneyland.

That speaks volumes to me.
Even if they DO ultimately make those changes at DLR, the fact that they put off doing so
for such a long time says something about its value to guests.

I can understand that you don't like some of the prelim info they released. Fair enough. The way they fill in the details over time may (or may not!) assuage some of that for you.

As for rolling it out in one park first: that just makes sense. Roll it out in one, iron out the kinks, then roll it out in the others. I don't think that it would make any business sense to roll this thing out worldwide at the outset. I think that it makes sense to start relatively small and then go wide with any major technological initiative.

 

[dadddio]

I'm sure mousemerf keeps them apprised of our thoughts.

For the life of me, I can't tell if you are being sarcastic, or not.

 

[bcrook]

I think that one trap that we fall into is when we try to think of the implementation of nextgen/my magic+/magic bands/FP+/etc as trying to do just one thing. I believe that FP+ was developed to do a few things.

First, I think that it will spread the FPs for the big rides out over a greater population, since us super-user (anybody else hate that term?) won't be able to obtain multiple FP+s for the same ride. This will do a couple things. First, it will have a greater number of unique people using the FP return lines. This alone will make a greater number of people happy and give them more time to spend money elsewhere. Another result of this, I believe is that fewer people will choose to ride the big rides multiple times because they won't wish to wait in the standby line for rerides. This reduces the standby line somewhat. It doesn't reduce it greatly simply because some people who didn't previously ride the ride will now do so either with FPs or I the somewhat shorter SB line, since they saved some park time by riding some other ride using FP+.

I further believe that the expansion of FPs to additional rides and attractions will indeed reduce the number of FP+s that are preselected for the big rides as it allows guests the ability to cater to their individual needs. I know that a number of the rides and attractions for which people have sarcastically suggested that people might get stuck with FP+s are things that my family might certainly choose to get FPs for since my kids are young and we don't really utilize the big rides much currently.

Let's be clear. If we are restricted to one big ride FP, I will be a little bummed. That being said, It could still work out fine since we don't really know how implementation will effect the lines in general because none of us are privy to Disney's modeling.

(FP and FP+ are used pretty much interchangeably in this post as it is really discussing the FP situation after full implementation. In general, I tend to refer to FP+ as the preselected variant and FP as 'same day' selection or using a FP or FP+ to ride a ride, but sometimes, I am lazy and use FP for FP and FP+ since I believe that the current FP system must go away when FP+ is implemented, if only because no paper tickets will exist once my magic+/magic bands are fully implemented.

I do think by limiting FP to three a day creates a high demand for FP and Disney deciding how to distribute that demand on a customer by customer basis throughout the day is a cool toy for them. Not saying I like it, but it has potential.

 

[mom2rtk]

For the life of me, I can't tell if you are being sarcastic, or not.

Isn't that the beauty of it?

 

[WillAustin]

I do think by limiting FP to three a day creates a high demand for FP and Disney deciding how to distribute that demand on a customer by customer basis throughout the day is a cool toy for them. Not saying I like it, but it has potential.

And eventually someone will figure out how to increase your likelihood of being the target for those extra ones.

 

[mom2rtk]

And eventually someone will figure out how to increase your likelihood of being the target for those extra ones.

So instead of just figuring out how to get what I want, I get to be grateful when one is bestowed upon me?

Maybe I'm just not cut out for the new Disney.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

I don't think we are completely making things up. We are extrapolating based on all the available information.
...

I'm sure mousemerf keeps them apprised of our thoughts. And he has already said that "social media" has gotten them to rethink some things already...I forget what it was though (the $50 pin-free room charge?)

To be fair here: some of this thread involves reasonable extrapolations (we think... based on the little we know). Some of it is WAY out there (they might charge by the hour... or at least could...), and some is mostly emotion at this point: "they're stealing my FPs!", and some of it is based upon unsubstantiated supposed "insider" info.

People don't like change. When they have little info, a certain percentage will assume the worst -- no matter what a company has done in the past.

And maybe some people are right: they will not be able to ride certain headliners the same number of times in any given day. Have they considered that maybe -- JUST MAYBE -- the overall system being put in place might offer them something cool in return -- something that may even balance out what they've lost? I'd at least keep my mind open to that possibility.

And I would be surprised if Disney wasn't aware of the chatter online - here and elsewhere. I'd suspect that they also know how to put it into context -- DISer vs. general population, for instance. Such as someone who is DVC, AP and has 20K posts on DIS screaming that THIS may be the FINAL straw...

ANd the change you referenced was social media reacting to OFFICIALLY RELEASED INFO re: $50 and a PIN -- not speculation on DIS or elsewhere!

Two thoughts:

1) I have no reason to believe that the concerns of guests have been dismissed. The mere fact that they haven't released all of the info and that they don't pop into this thread in an official capacity does not mean that they haven't heard their customers concerns and aren't reacting to them.

ITA