FP + What we know and what we want to know

[ghtx]

If I choose not to use FP+ and just do regular FP, do you think that the # of regular FP's per ride per day will be less because of all the FP+ already scheduled?

TIA

Yes, almost certainly. It will have to either reduce the number of regular FPs or reduce the number of riders allowed in standby. It will probably do a little of both.

 

[ghtx]

Yes. They can't just add FP+ to the existing number of Fastpasses issued.

Well, they could, if they took all of the FP+ slots from SB rather than from traditional FP. But they most probably won't.

 

[doconeill]

Yes, almost certainly. It will have to either reduce the number of regular FPs or reduce the number of riders allowed in standby. It will probably do a little of both.

Well, they could, if they took all of the FP+ slots from SB rather than from traditional FP. But they most probably won't.

No, they can't.

Here is the thing - they can't control who goes in the standby line. So they can't really take slots from there. There aren't really slots to take.

They can increase the number of FP/FP+ slots issued, and HOPE it keeps people out of the standby line. But they can't force it.

In most cases, they also can't increase the capacity of the attraction, so they can't increase the number of FP/FP+ slots and hope to handle the same standby volume.

And word on the street is that they've already recalculated and increased the number of Fastpass slots, with the idea they will be converted to FP+ slots.

 

[Lynn5700]

From a FP stand point there shouldn't be enough demand for FP+ to make a difference in availability at that time. If you are staying off site, you will use the FP- and everything should be like normal. If you are staying on site, you might be convinced to use FP+ but it should be fine because you will have plenty of choices to grab FP even at check in.

Now if you are worried about spending too much money, beware of the magicbands.

When everything gets up and running, it seems that is the plan.

In the terms and conditions and the interview with nick Franklin (both can found on the first page), it appears that you should be able to link your ticket to your online account. Resort doesn't matter. You will get plenty of information, about which is more effective FP- or FP+ when the trip reports start coming in. Stay tuned.

Okay thank you! So I can try FP+ when I am there? Honestly, I would want to use it for parades/fireworks. And this is only available at the Magic Kingdom right now?

 

[ghtx]

Here is the thing - they can't control who goes in the standby line. So they can't really take slots from there. There aren't really slots to take.

I don't follow you. Maybe I am misunderstanding.

They can't control who goes in the standby line, but they can (and do) control how many people who are in the standby line are let on the ride in a certain amount of time. There certainly are "slots" for standby (it's just the total number of rides available minus the number allocated to regular FP minus the number allocated to FP+, give or take GACs, etc.). My claim was that they could keep the same number of regular FP slots, and add in a bunch of FP+ slots. With capacity unchanging, that would take away from the SB slots. That would mean the SB line would move at a snail's pace.

Again, they probably won't do this, but they can.

 

[doconeill]

I don't follow you. Maybe I am misunderstanding.

They can't control who goes in the standby line, but they can (and do) control how many people who are in the standby line are let on the ride in a certain amount of time. There certainly are "slots" for standby (it's just the total number of rides available minus the number allocated to regular FP minus the number allocated to FP+, give or take GACs, etc.). My claim was that they could keep the same number of regular FP slots, and add in a bunch of FP+ slots. With capacity unchanging, that would take away from the SB slots. That would mean the SB line would move at a snail's pace.

Again, they probably won't do this, but they can.

Some number of people are going to get into the standby line each day. Adding FP or FP+ isn't likely to decrease that number, except for increase the wait times of the standby line to the point that people will look at the wait time and decide not to. But we can't predict how those people will react.

The people likely to utilize FP+ would likely have utilized FP anyways. So adding slots to handle them won't really make things better.

So more people will enter the FP/FP+ line, but the same or ever so slightly smaller number of people enter the standby line. But the standby line moves slower because of the FP/FP+ line.

Not to mention that the restrictions on FP+ that we are hearing about will likely increase use of the standby lines. So making them slower and then adding people to them makes it worse.

If they add too many slots to the FP/FP+ line, the standby line completely stagnates and becomes useless. Some would argue it already has.

By "no slots" I mean no assigned times for the standby line. You get in it, and you take your chances. There are slots in the sense that some portion of the capacity is intended to be filled by the standby guests - assuming no issues cause problems with meeting that capacity.

 

[PrincessArlena'sDad]

Yes. They can't just add FP+ to the existing number of Fastpasses issued.

As this is rolled out, It'd expect fewer and fewer regular Fastpasses to be available.

Yes, but also fewer and fewer guests using the FP system; they'll be using FP+, and only FP+.

So, it'll be a balance. Theoretically, the people using FP won't see a change in FP availability (less of the FPs, but less people taking them).

Whether it works this way or not, who knows. Maybe they'll see less availability, or maybe even more, if FP+ people take lots of parades/fireworks spots, then the decrease in available FP will be less than the decrease in demand for them.

 

[mousermerf]

..until Disney stops issuing FP's completely.

Distinct denial that this -is- going to happen, and soon.

 

[mom2rtk]

or maybe even more, if FP+ people take lots of parades/fireworks spots, then the decrease in available FP will be less than the decrease in demand for them.

As appealing as it is to think about having a FP for parades and fireworks, once people realize they will be taking these in leiu of ride FPs, I think it will be a much tougher sale. So far this concept has only been tested in a vacuum........ with no downside.

 

[Sphinx610]

So I have been coming back to review this from time to time, but I am not sure this image has been posted... I got this picture off allears... I guess this is what the Magic Band looks like?

 

[doconeill]

So I have been coming back to review this from time to time, but I am not sure this image has been posted... I got this picture off allears... I guess this is what the Magic Band looks like?

Posted? It's in Robo's signature now

It is a publicity photo, so the end design could vary, and it isn't the best view of it.

 

[bigAWL]

Yes, but also fewer and fewer guests using the FP system; they'll be using FP+, and only FP+.

So, it'll be a balance. Theoretically, the people using FP won't see a change in FP availability (less of the FPs, but less people taking them).

Whether it works this way or not, who knows. Maybe they'll see less availability, or maybe even more, if FP+ people take lots of parades/fireworks spots, then the decrease in available FP will be less than the decrease in demand for them.

You're assuming that people using FP+ will not completely book all the available FP/FP+ slots for a ride before even entering the park. FP+ can be booked 60 days in advance.

I think a few months from now people hoping to use the old FP system for TSMM will go straight to the FP machines at rope drop and find there are none left for the day.

 

[doconeill]

You're assuming that people using FP+ will not completely book all the available FP/FP+ slots for a ride before even entering the park. FP+ can be booked 60 days in advance.

I think a few months from now people hoping to use the old FP system for TSMM will go straight to the FP machines at rope drop and find there are none left for the day.

I expect that only a portion of existing FP slots will be given over to FP+ to start, in proportion to the audience it is available to and the percentage of those willing to be the guinea pigs for the rest of us.

As time goes on, that portion will increase, until it is 100% and FP goes away.

 

[mbrittb00]

I think initially FP- and FP+ will co-exist while they are ramping up the FP+ system. However eventually FP- will phase itself out by the sheer lack of FPs avaliable the day of for those who "opt out". Here is another analysis I had done for the 3 headliner attractions at Epcot. It shows the same thing that my SpaM analysis (that the OP had linked to), that once fully implement FP+ and FP- won't be able to coexist, unless Disney limits the number of FP+ reservations that can be made for the headliners, and force some people to use their top tier advanced FP+ reservation for something like Nemo or Living with the Land.

http://disboards.com/showpost.php?p=47157955&postcount=1140

I would love for FP- and FP+ to be able to coexist, but I just don't see it happening.

 

[Sphinx610]

Posted? It's in Robo's signature now

It is a publicity photo, so the end design could vary, and it isn't the best view of it.

Like I said... been coming back here and there... lol

 

[DVC4US]

I think that people confuse FP+ with a magic band's ability to unlock a hotel room door.

By no means am I confused by the difference between FP+ and the ability to unlock a door. If you re-read my post, which I quoted below, no where in there did I talk about unlocking doors. This post was in response to WDW changing the entrance gates at MK and now 2/3 of them will be RFID entrance. So to use these entrances and not be stuck in a long line(possibility) I would need to link my tickets to the MagicBand which would then not allow me to use the FP- system. And in my example if FP+ has not been rolled out at my hotel yet then I would not be able to use any FP system. Again this is all an example of a possible problem.

Here is a problem I see with "encouragement" to register(based on the info we have now): this is just an example

We are going on a trip in June and staying at SSR. FP+ has not been rolled out yet at SSR but I am "encouraged" to link my tickets to my RFID card(or MagicBand) for faster entrance into the parks. So now that I have linked my tickets to the RFID program, I am no longer able to use FP-. If FP+ is not available at SSR yet and I can no longer use FP- this means I am relegated to stand-by only.

Does anyone else see this happening or is it just me thinking of all the bad possibilities?

 

[doconeill]

By no means am I confused by the difference between FP+ and the ability to unlock a door. If you re-read my post, which I quoted below, no where in there did I talk about unlocking doors. This post was in response to WDW changing the entrance gates at MK and now 2/3 of them will be RFID entrance. So to use these entrances and not be stuck in a long line(possibility) I would need to link my tickets to the MagicBand which would then not allow me to use the FP- system. And in my example if FP+ has not been rolled out at my hotel yet then I would not be able to use any FP system. Again this is all an example of a possible problem.

First, if your resort has not had FP+ rolled out, you probably won't get a MagicBand. You would have a normal ticket or KTTW card (potentially an RFID-enabled KTTW card or ticket for door opening, etc. purposes) and still be able to use it in the existing FP kiosks.

They will NOT lock you out of the system just because you are at a certain resort. All resorts will be converted over before FP goes away.

Eventually ALL tickets will need to be RFID enabled, so your fear of being stuck in the non-RFID line won't matter since there won't be one in the end.

Have two thirds already been converted anyways? By the time they do that, I'd expected that better than two-thirds of guests will be using them (they are more efficient apparently), so the lines at the non-RFID gates should in fact be shorter...

 

[mmmhf]

Forgive me if already asked/answered.


Going in June (2-12) and staying off site. I know that the mymagic+ fastpass+ will be rolled out to resort guests and photo pass+ holders before others. We are planning on buying photopass+ so will we be "required" to use fastpass+ and will we get a magic band with our photopass+ purchase? I am just confused how it will work. The answer may not even be out there yet. Suggestions and opinions appreciated.

 

[mousermerf]

I just want to mention something i've seen touched on but it seems it needs further clarification..

FP and FP+ inventory (the number of passes) per existing ride will stay the same. The rides added to FP+ that didnt have FP previously will provide new FP+ inventory overall.

So.. when we're talking about "longer standby lines" we mean at those attractions which never offered FP before - that's a given. Add a FP+ like and the ride loading will slow down for the standby line.

At the same time..

If the same number FP+ are given out as FP currently, the same number of people - or greater - will be enjoying the FP+ benefit at an attraction. Not less, and not increasing the standby wait time over what it currently is.

With current FP - you have the folks who grab a FP, ride it once, grab another FP, do the first FP ride, and then later do the second FP ride.

That's 3 rides for one person, two of which are FP.

With FP+ that person can only pick that ride once in a day. That's it. So the second FP+ goes to another person, but the number given out in total is the same. Hence with FP+ the distribution across guest categories is going to be much more even. Limiting everyone to 3 FP+ also more evenly distributes all FP+ across all rides. Yes, this means some people spend more time in standby lines.. but not all guests on average. "Median" avg Joe park guest is going to benefit from the new system.

Redistribution of wealth really.

And then there's that re-ride in standby that the other guest was doing.. without the multiple FPs and the morning FP-free window eliminated, they're going to be discouraged from doing so.. freeing up capacity (as total ride capacity per hour is limited) to another guest.

I think once this all plays out you'll see that surprisingly few people held an overwhelming majority of the FPs for their benefit while the majority of park guests stood in longer lines. With the system it'll be more evenly distributed.

 

[mom2rtk]

I just want to mention something i've seen touched on but it seems it needs further clarification..

FP and FP+ inventory (the number of passes) per existing ride will stay the same. The rides added to FP+ that didnt have FP previously will provide new FP+ inventory overall.

So.. when we're talking about "longer standby lines" we mean at those attractions which never offered FP before - that's a given. Add a FP+ like and the ride loading will slow down for the standby line.

At the same time..

If the same number FP+ are given out as FP currently, the same number of people - or greater - will be enjoying the FP+ benefit at an attraction. Not less, and not increasing the standby wait time over what it currently is.

With current FP - you have the folks who grab a FP, ride it once, grab another FP, do the first FP ride, and then later do the second FP ride.

That's 3 rides for one person, two of which are FP.

With FP+ that person can only pick that ride once in a day. That's it. So the second FP+ goes to another person, but the number given out in total is the same. Hence with FP+ the distribution across guest categories is going to be much more even. Limiting everyone to 3 FP+ also more evenly distributes all FP+ across all rides. Yes, this means some people spend more time in standby lines.. but not all guests on average. "Median" avg Joe park guest is going to benefit from the new system.

Redistribution of wealth really.

And then there's that re-ride in standby that the other guest was doing.. without the multiple FPs and the morning FP-free window eliminated, they're going to be discouraged from doing so.. freeing up capacity (as total ride capacity per hour is limited) to another guest.

I think once this all plays out you'll see that surprisingly few people held an overwhelming majority of the FPs for their benefit while the majority of park guests stood in longer lines. With the system it'll be more evenly distributed.

Except that there's nothing to keep the superusers from tying up more time in the standby line now, potentially making them longer. Or is Disney installing facial recognition software to deny them entry into the standby line now?