FP+ is Live! Magic Bands in the park!

[Squidgyness]

This is at the heart of the matter. Disney wants people to log in, purchase tickets 60 days in advance, choose a park, and commit to a certain length of stay.

Nobody would do that. So they need an incentive.

FP+ is it. This is all because of TSMM. Look at the craziness surrounding getting a FP+ there. Instead of seeing that amazing behavior and thinking - "We need to build another TSMM ride right next door to alleviate the madness and increase happiness", Disney saw a way of capitalizing on the consumer demand for those very valuable fastpasses.

Now Disney is going to try to make a lot more fastpasses valuable and then use that to get everyone to opt into their new ticketing, photo pass, and merchandising system.

If it works - and I imagine it will (people are still paying for the dining plan even after the food has been watered down, appetizers taken away, cost increased more than 50%, and tip was eliminated from the package) Disney will have a sweet, sweet system.

The talking goofy pictures in the hotel rooms, the delightful banter from the characters, the interactive queues are glitter.

But I agree! They could have still got everybody to use the magicband and mined the data by just having the interactive queues and experiences. So, the data is not the only reason for this...

Is fp+ really that much of an incentive?

Lets look at what you are getting ATM: 3 fastpasses that we know of in advance, that can't be used on any ride more than once.

Now. That's okay (let's assume that everyone using this new perk doesn't devalue its usage till its just another thing you do) but its no fantastic new attraction.

Just today I learned you can reserve seats at a show in seaworld for $30. Yeah it's steep. But let's say it was free, but you only got one usage and it was limited. Would you be more excited for that or the new Antarctica?

Look at universal. Say they had made their front of the line pass free to the first 1000 guests through the doors, onsite or not. Now, that's good, but would it have made the same impact on the industry as Harry potter did?

I don't think this is the thing that will launch WDW into the future as assured of the premier spot in people's minds. It is in many cases now, but often not. This new system might be a part of a counterattack to regain their position as by far the top innovator and ride builder, it might even be pretty good. But it's not as good as it needs to be to lure in significant numbers of guests and change their mindset IMO, and it certainly doesn't have the catchiness of a new attraction.

How can you market this without causing issues later? You need to get across that you can book rides in advance, but also include the limitations, or people will not be pleased when they discover them later on. I mean these aren't minor terms and conditions, they are full on limits on the basic service. It's like signing a phone contract for cheap calls then being told the total number of minutes are only 50 a month and you are locked in. Not the sort of image you want to give people.

"Mymagic+, personalisation at rides, order meals in advance, pay using a magicband (offsite guests must purchase) and advanced ride booking! (P.s. only three rides a day, one booking per person per ride.)" It just doesn't have that magic factor to it tbh. It's a marketers nightmare. It's so complicated, how much do you let people know?

 

[doconeill]

The people that take 5 minutes to decide once they're at the decision point are the last people I would think likely to make a decision even earlier.

It isn't for them. It's for the people who know what they want from that place in advance, and don't want to be stuck behind the people taking 5 minutes to decide, then arguing about their DDP credits, If they can get one double cheeseburger but two buns, etc.

The counter service FP is what baffled me the most when I heard about it. I have never waited very long to order at a CS place and I have never not had a table when I got my food. So if I preorder my food and it has a one hour window, (maybe that one won't have that?), does my burger get cooked for the beginning of the window and they pop it in the microwave when I get there? LOL

I would use this for Flame Tree BBQ in a heartbeat. I've waited over 20 minutes just to get to the register to order. And I saw them using the red timing cards that they use to measure the standby wait in the attraction lines there.

Is it possible that for the CS the idea would be with the FP you pre-order your meal, then when you arrive at the restaurant you tap your band on a reader and it sends your order (which is already in the system) to the kitchen, then you would enter a separate "fast lane" for pick-up (not sure if anyone else has already suggested this) This could be expedited further by either requiring CC info tied in or DP for payment.

I believe this would be EXACTLY it. Wave you band, and it comes up in the kitchen, and gets pulled. No communications issues with the order takers (I had one person add 7 drinks to a meal for three. And then when I went to have them correct it, they removed ALL BUT ONE from the bill. The food runner ended up giving me the other two drinks for free because they'd already screwed it up twice).

I don't see them running the food to the tables like at BOG at all the other locations, but maybe one or two.

 

[Squidgyness]

I believe this would be EXACTLY it. Wave you band, and it comes up in the kitchen, and gets pulled. No communications issues with the order takers (I had one person add 7 drinks to a meal for three. And then when I went to have them correct it, they removed ALL BUT ONE from the bill. The food runner ended up giving me the other two drinks for free because they'd already screwed it up twice).

I don't see them running the food to the tables like at BOG at all the other locations, but maybe one or two.

The IT might have similar issues as we have discussed though.

How many times have you double clicked an item to print? I know people who have ordered stuff on amazon then discovered too late they bought two!

Imagine someone booking twice the number of meals sixty days out, then only checking on the day. You'd think people would double check, but as I say, they often don't. This new system shares the same vulnerability to errors as the old. Just different ones.

What if the system deletes your meal order? Also, I'm not sure if this would be available for people who want to customise their order due to food allergies, but if it is, what if that gets accidentally cut off the oder when it appears in the kitchen?

People think IT cuts down human errors. But who programs the machines? mark my words, it will be bugs ahoy.

"Oh we know, the network sometimes does that. Here, have a slip with your order on give it to that man and we will have it out as soon as we can."

Gods forbid the whole network goes down a la play station network or several prominent banks (including ATMs!) ... Wouldn't be pretty.

 

[mom2rtk]

But didn't Walt Disney say, "It's kinda fun to do the impossible"

Perhaps. But maybe Walt should have been in charge of the IT department.

 

[bcrook]

Is fp+ really that much of an incentive?

Lets look at what you are getting ATM: 3 fastpasses that we know of in advance, that can't be used on any ride more than once.

Now. That's okay (let's assume that everyone using this new perk doesn't devalue its usage till its just another thing you do) but its no fantastic new attraction.

Just today I learned you can reserve seats at a show in seaworld for $30. Yeah it's steep. But let's say it was free, but you only got one usage and it was limited. Would you be more excited for that or the new Antarctica?

Look at universal. Say they had made their front of the line pass free to the first 1000 guests through the doors, onsite or not. Now, that's good, but would it have made the same impact on the industry as Harry potter did?

I don't think this is the thing that will launch WDW into the future as assured of the premier spot in people's minds. It is in many cases now, but often not. This new system might be a part of a counterattack to regain their position as by far the top innovator and ride builder, it might even be pretty good. But it's not as good as it needs to be to lure in significant numbers of guests and change their mindset IMO, and it certainly doesn't have the catchiness of a new attraction.

How can you market this without causing issues later? You need to get across that you can book rides in advance, but also include the limitations, or people will not be pleased when they discover them later on. I mean these aren't minor terms and conditions, they are full on limits on the basic service. It's like signing a phone contract for cheap calls then being told the total number of minutes are only 50 a month and you are locked in. Not the sort of image you want to give people.

"Mymagic+, personalisation at rides, order meals in advance, pay using a magicband (offsite guests must purchase) and advanced ride booking! (P.s. only three rides a day, one booking per person per ride.)" It just doesn't have that magic factor to it tbh. It's a marketers nightmare. It's so complicated, how much do you let people know?

If this goes as planned, we will all buy our tickets 60 days in advance, link them to our My Disney Experience, and choose our 3 FP+ a day. It doesn't really matter if it is better, it will be the new rules. If you want a TSMM FP, you will do this. I believe this will become a reality.

If Disney then launches a major expansions in DHS, DAK, and Epcot right after this. Everyone will be all aglow. It will be just like that 3rd hour of EMH at MK. Poof gone, and nobody cares (obviously, I am still bitter!!! )

I do think Rileygirl's comments about the DVC Premium Annual Pass is insightful. Why did they offer that great deal with very generous terms? To keep the DVC component from howling with the new rules about to be unveiled. interesting.

 

[doconeill]

The IT might have similar issues as we have discussed though.

How many times have you double clicked an item to print? I know people who have ordered stuff on amazon then discovered too late they bought two!

If you ordered two, after having to verify your order, that's a human error on the guest's part. That's not a technology error.

Imagine someone booking twice the number of meals sixty days out, then only checking on the day. You'd think people would double check, but as I say, they often don't. This new system shares the same vulnerability to errors as the old. Just different ones.

But that's the guest's fault for not actually verifying the order on the "verify order" screen, which they are instructed to do.

What if the system deletes your meal order?

That's a different issue in general.

Also, I'm not sure if this would be available for people who want to customise their order due to food allergies, but if it is, what if that gets accidentally cut off the oder when it appears in the kitchen?

Another different issue, but I believe in cases of severe food allergies you shouldn't be ordering food this way anyways, and actually talking to the preparers/cooks.

People think IT cuts down human errors. But who programs the machines? mark my words, it will be bugs ahoy.

I don't know. My programs work quite well . Certainly nothing on this scale.

Gods forbid the whole network goes down a la play station network or several prominent banks (including ATMs!) ... Wouldn't be pretty.

That's actually a problem they will have to deal with. If the Fastpass kiosk communications go down, they simply issue you a Fastpass anyways by default. You have a slip of paper with your FP info on it.

With the new system, which now has IT needs on the other end if it at redemption, if the system isn't working, then what? Let the guest enter the FP line anyways? And in the case of food, how could you handle it at all? You need to send them to the regular line to order, after they've already burned a precious FP+...

 

[Squidgyness]

Hmm. I accept your arguments on it being the guests fault (though I don't think the guest will see it that way ) and you are right on them having to face a loss of the mymagic system. This time it won't just be paper fastpasses like you say.

Interlinking things to make them go faster is brilliant in theory but you run the risk of greater damage should things go wrong.

I'm picturing Cylons from battlestar galactica with mickey ears as I type that...

And bcrook that is my darkest fear, that this will become something you effectively need to do to ride more than a couple of attractions. If that happens... Well I don't want to think about it because I know what I'd do and that is never go back. It wouldn't be anything I would particularly want to do... But then I don't want to do be coerced into doing anything I don't want to at disney just to get basic things like attractions so... I will have to keep hoping they change their minds or this system goes better.

 

[doconeill]

I'm picturing Cylons from battlestar galactica with mickey ears as I type that...

Disney will inadvertently create the first self-aware network, which will use Mr. Lincoln as its spokesmatronic.

 

[Planogirl]

I wonder if making counterservice meals harder to get will actually make the food seem better? It will still be the same mediocre food at most locations as far as I've heard.

Also, would the FP+ used for CS be in addition to the 3 fastpasses already being thrown around? I know that no one knows but it's interesting to think about.

 

[MichiganDVC]

I wonder if making counterservice meals harder to get will actually make the food seem better? It will still be the same mediocre food at most locations as far as I've heard.

Also, would the FP+ used for CS be in addition to the 3 fastpasses already being thrown around? I know that no one knows but it's interesting to think about.

I absolutely adore my CS meals at Epcot, at least. Yes, you can get similar quality at your local "fill in name of chain restaurant here." But you cannot get the theming, views, or proximity to your favorite WDW park!

But if all people do is eat chicken nuggets and hamburgers, I don't know why they expect filet mignon.

 

[maiapapaya]

I wonder if making counterservice meals harder to get will actually make the food seem better? It will still be the same mediocre food at most locations as far as I've heard.

Also, would the FP+ used for CS be in addition to the 3 fastpasses already being thrown around? I know that no one knows but it's interesting to think about.

Ah, maybe you've figured out part of WDW's logic in adding CS FP's ... making people compete for the food will make it seem better!

From what I remember from last fall's tests there were the 3 FP's and then a separate one for a parade/fireworks. I imagine the CS one would be separate as well ... helps to make ppl think they are getting a whole mitt full 'o FP's!

 

[larryz]

The 10% who will be happy... Disney execs and stockholders.

True dat!

The idea of needing a fastpass to get a hotdog at Casey's makes me sick to my stomach.

The idea of paying ~$8.00 for a "gourmet" hotdog makes me sick to my stomach -- even if it IS dropped straight onto my credit card via MagicBand...

 

[jade1]

CS FP+ seems like a great idea. I'm sure other than IT, things can create problems though.

But I have worked fast food, and without a doubt would prefer EVERY order was tentatively in the system ahead of time.

Furthermore, I would prefer they tap a wristband to verify they are indeed getting the order instead of having to punch everything in at that moment each time.

Now your telling me they also don't have to pay right then and there? It will just bill the CC they registered. No making change or anything?

Well worth a try anyway IMO.

Seriously-picture the guy next to you in the current Casey's line, doesn't have a clue about CS FP+. You walk in next to him, tap a wrist band, take your food. That's it? It would look impossible actually.

Actually why not just offer this all the time? Why need a FP+,it has to be easier for everyone IMO. Even if you just do this at any time of the day of.

If I ran Caseys, and quests could create orders while in an attraction line, wherever-I could triple my output with this. No more ordering or paying?

 

[agavegirl1]

When I see questions regarding Disney's motivation, I always come back to this statement.


" Disney’s Chief Financial Officer Jay Rasulo made an interesting comment when asked about MyMagic+: “We have known for a really long time that getting our visitors to Walt Disney World to make decisions about where they spend their time before they leave home is a powerful driver of visits per guest. When they get into the Orlando market and their time isn’t yet planned, they can be subject to everything you see down there, which is a lot of in-city marketing for all the many products that people have put there to basically bleed off the feed that we fundamentally motivate.”
Jay went on to say: “So if we can get people to plan their vacation before they leave home, we know that we get more time with them. We get a bigger share of their wallet. So that’s one thing for you guys to think about. And the second thing is what happens to purchases when they become much more convenient, and you don’t spend time queuing up for a transaction, queuing up to get in the park, and you actually have more time to enjoy the entertainment and, subsequently, spend more money doing things — other than standing in line, which, of course, you can’t spend any money while you’re doing that.”

Funny he doesn't mention queuing up for an attraction here. I'm guessing that is what FP+ was intended to address. It does seem like forced advance planning for maximization of Disney profits is key. I wonder what types of data were used to determine how much advance planning is driving up visits per guest. I think he is referring to individual park visits rather than return visits.

So, a 1BN investment in a profit making scheme. Amazingly, this same investment could have gone a long way toward creating new attractions with merchandise that could have done the same thing. Instead of generating new customers and more return visits, they want to squeeze more money out of the ones already there.

 

[preemiemama]

And the second thing is what happens to purchases when they become much more convenient, and you don’t spend time queuing up for a transaction, queuing up to get in the park, and you actually have more time to enjoy the entertainment and, subsequently, spend more money doing things — other than standing in line, which, of course, you can’t spend any money while you’re doing that.”

I am wondering if FP+ may have a component like the Dumbo queue- where you get a virtual place in line instead of the traditional FP? So even though you are technically in a SB line, you are not really in line? It seems that the Dumbo queue and its availability to the merchandise would fit this statement, and I thought the plan was to create more like that. Maybe the FP+ reservation is to plan ahead, much like people have been speculating, but then everything else will be converted to a merchandise haven so we can spend money while (not) waiting in line?

 

[PrincessArlena'sDad]

If Rileygirl's 80-10 split is right and they only care about newbies...

then why are they even thinking about putting this in Disneyland? From what I understand Disneyland is very highly dependent on repeats and locals. This system can't be something that only a newb could love.

 

[mom2mickeyfan]

When I see questions regarding Disney's motivation, I always come back to this statement.


" Disney’s Chief Financial Officer Jay Rasulo made an interesting comment when asked about MyMagic+: “We have known for a really long time that getting our visitors to Walt Disney World to make decisions about where they spend their time before they leave home is a powerful driver of visits per guest. When they get into the Orlando market and their time isn’t yet planned, they can be subject to everything you see down there, which is a lot of in-city marketing for all the many products that people have put there to basically bleed off the feed that we fundamentally motivate.”
Jay went on to say: “So if we can get people to plan their vacation before they leave home, we know that we get more time with them. We get a bigger share of their wallet. So that’s one thing for you guys to think about. And the second thing is what happens to purchases when they become much more convenient, and you don’t spend time queuing up for a transaction, queuing up to get in the park, and you actually have more time to enjoy the entertainment and, subsequently, spend more money doing things — other than standing in line, which, of course, you can’t spend any money while you’re doing that.”

Funny he doesn't mention queuing up for an attraction here. I'm guessing that is what FP+ was intended to address. It does seem like forced advance planning for maximization of Disney profits is key. I wonder what types of data were used to determine how much advance planning is driving up visits per guest. I think he is referring to individual park visits rather than return visits.

So, a 1BN investment in a profit making scheme. Amazingly, this same investment could have gone a long way toward creating new attractions with merchandise that could have done the same thing. Instead of generating new customers and more return visits, they want to squeeze more money out of the ones already there.

I keep hearing about keeping guest at Disney but doesn't Disney already do a good job of that with their on-site guest? They pick up guests at the airport and promise them they can get them anywhere on Disney property the guest wants to go. Even those that drive down, I've heard so many times how many of those guest would never dream of staying off site because once they get there, they love being able to park their car and not have to drive again until it is time to go home. It is stated as one of the big perks of staying on site.

What hasn't been address with any good ideas is how in the world is Disney going to reach these off-site guest that never go to the Disney website. Yes, maybe in another 5 or 10 years, that will be the only way to get a Disney ticket but that is a lot of time before we get to that point.

I still say that when I am sitting at home thinking of planning where our family will take their vacation, that this new system (with or without FP+) is going to make me choose Disney over other Orlando parks. I would think that most families look at what the park has to offer in rides and/or shows to pick where they want to go. Kids now days are a much bigger influnce on their parents than ever before (sometimes too much) but this new system isn't going to appeal to them and have them begging to go to Disney. But some new rides/lands sure would.

 

[Robo]

Has anyone ever exited from a ride through a gift shop an not bought anything?

Has anyone ever walked into a WDW shop, looked around, and not bought anything?

 

[MichiganDVC]

So, a 1BN investment in a profit making scheme. Amazingly, this same investment could have gone a long way toward creating new attractions with merchandise that could have done the same thing. Instead of generating new customers and more return visits, they want to squeeze more money out of the ones already there.

And when Disney does build new rides... everyone complains about them. I can't remember the last time I heard something positive about Seven Dwarves Mine Train, which not unlike FP+, hasn't even been built.

And they complain about FLE as a whole. They complain about the possibility of Cars Land and Avatarland, because it isn't ________ land.

 

[mesaboy2]

And when Disney does build new rides... everyone complains about them. I can't remember the last time I heard something positive about Seven Dwarves Mine Train, which not unlike FP+, hasn't even been built.

And they complain about FLE as a whole. They complain about the possibility of Cars Land and Avatarland, because it isn't ________ land.

Really? Seems like there's quite a bit of anticipation for it here.