FP+ is Live! Magic Bands in the park!

[Robo]

Someone was talking about FP's for Lights Motors Action (possibly the silliest and most risky fp idea yet. "We didn't need FP, all the seats are pretty good!" "What do you mean I need a fastpass to get in early now? I'm here now and I want to go in!"

Doesn't seem like the benefit is worth it to either party. Why not just show up early and get to the front of the standby queue? You'd still get a decent seat and save a fastpass to boot.

Exactly why fastpasses should NOT have been extended beyond rides. It's getting more and more complicated. The premutations are insane, there must be hundreds of possible fastpass reservation arrangements.

Years ago, Disney did have FP's for the popular "show" attractions.
Indy, LMA (DHS,) Mickey's Philharmagic (MK,) HISTA 3D (Epcot) were some of them.

Then, a few years later, they dropped the show FP's.

Now, it looks like they are bringing at least some of them back for FP+ choices.
(Yes, not exactly a "plus" for those who understand how these attractions load.)

 

[Squidgyness]

Years ago, Disney did have FP's for the popular "show" attractions.
Indy, LMA (DHS,) Mickey's Philharmagic (MK,) HISTA 3D (Epcot) were some of them.

Then, a few years later, they dropped the show FP's.

Now, it looks like they are bringing at least some of them back.

Well if that isnt the definition of going backwards I don't know what is.

They aren't needed, otherwise they would have stayed!

Seems they are just there to make up the numbers now. Parades... characters... counter service... shows... what else can we fastpass... I know! Fastpass park entry!

Oh god I hope someone at Disney isn't reading that.

Also, there have been 24 replies to a topic about having no plans at WDW, in just a few hours. On the DIS, a board famous for planning resources and tips. Doesn't bode well for having everyone take part in planning.

 

[bcrook]

Someone was talking about FP's for Lights Motors Action (possibly the silliest and most risky fp idea yet. "We didn't need FP, all the seats are pretty good!" "What do you mean I need a fastpass to get in early now? I'm here now and I want to go in!"

Doesn't seem like the benefit is worth it to either party. Why not just show up early and get to the front of the standby queue? You'd still get a decent seat and save a fastpass to boot.

Exactly why fastpasses should NOT have been extended beyond rides. It's getting more and more complicated. The premutations are insane, there must be hundreds of possible fastpass reservation arrangements.

What do you think about festival of the lion king and nemo at DAK?

 

[bcrook]

Well if that isnt the definition of going backwards I don't know what is.

They aren't needed, otherwise they would have stayed!

Seems they are just there to make up the numbers now. Parades... characters... counter service... shows... what else can we fastpass... I know! Fastpass park entry!

Oh god I hope someone at Disney isn't reading that.

Also, there have been 24 replies to a topic about having no plans at WDW, in just a few hours. On the DIS, a board famous for planning resources and tips. Doesn't bode well for having everyone take part in planning.

No kidding! . That is the first time someone has suggested that!

 

[BuzzBelleMom]

This thread is enlightening.

And I really, sincerely, truly hope some people in power in Disney are following along...

 

[Squidgyness]

What do you think about festival of the lion king and nemo at DAK?

I can't strictly speak for them since I don't visit them, but if they take place in an auditorium/theater setting I can't see the benefits of FP outweighing problematic public image damage.

Seems it would be a little more obvious in that situation who is getting the shaft.

In a ride situation, it's "Look they are going in front... oh but the standby line is moving up now. Oh well." (Perhaps slightly exagerrated but people will probably get over it a little when they move up.)
VS
Too many FP/inaccurate forcasting of crowds "Sorry folks, the theatre is full" "If there hadn't been so many people going in ahead we would have gotten in that showing." OR if not neccessary to get a FP "Why did we get this FP? We should have just gotten to the front of the standby queue. The show doesn't start any earlier for us, and we could have gotten a decent seat anyway! We could have gotten a parade FP..."

Much less harder to get over, and much more obvious that you are getting screwed. If they can manage without FP now, I don't see the reason to add it beyond making the numbers up. Which doesnt really help anybody that much, and actually harms others.

 

[bcrook]

I can't strictly speak for them since I don't visit them, but if they take place in an auditorium/theater setting I can't see the benefits of FP outweighing problematic public image damage.

Seems it would be a little more obvious in that situation who is getting the shaft.

In a ride situation, it's "Look they are going in front... oh but the standby line is moving up now. Oh well." (Perhaps slightly exagerrated but people will probably get over it a little when they move up.)
VS
"Sorry folks, the theatre is full" "If there hadn't been so many people going in ahead we would have gotten in that showing." OR "Why did we get this FP? We should have just gotten to the front of the standby queue. The show doesn't start any earlier for us!"

Much less harder to get over, and much more obvious that you are getting screwed.

Good points. Also, a feeding frenzy could occur. All festival of the lion king slots could technically book up in advance, and if you want a seat you have to burn a FP+. People will be going online to book at the 60 day mark just like getting that chef Mickey reservation.

 

[Squidgyness]

Good points. Also, a feeding frenzy could occur. All festival of the lion king slots could technically book up in advance, and if you want a seat you have to burn a FP+. People will be going online to book at the 60 day mark just like getting that chef Mickey reservation.

It could well end up being the case of a few hurting the many who don't get in.

Not what Disney wants imo. Isn't that one of the problems with the current FP system, the few who know make the lines longer for the majority that don't.

Seems this could just as easily happen under the new system though, unless they give opportunity for the majority to FP, then this has it's own issues that have been discussed.

<Rock> Disney or the Guest <hard place>

 

[jade1]

Jade

It may not make sense for you to waste your fast pass on Illuminations..

I'm really only trying to help, and as you-will work with what's available.

I think they will have the spot in front of SE as the location. We abandoned that spot many years ago, mostly because you had to get in super early to be in front-after that-its just heads, and someone or kids stand up when it starts and the yelling begins etc. Plus after the long wait-sure enough the wind is in our face and it looks crappy, so we move anyway.

Imagine if this was your seat: Compared to the one below. Wouldn't you simply move anyway after all that?

 

[Robo]

Ah, progress!

 

[disneymagicgirl]

I've got a good one...FP+ for the bag check line!

 

[doconeill]

Just to add a bit of history...regular use of FP at LMA didn't even make it two years.

It officially opened in May 2005.

We went in July 2006. We got Fastpasses for it then. Still had to wait a while, and it ended up being rained out. Fastpasses were useless because they were tied to the particular show.

In July 2007, we went over early to get Fastpasses, since we still hadn't seen it and didn't want to take a chance (didn't know then about the capacity, etc. and in 2006 it was VERY busy). Got intercepted by a CM on the way asking where we were heading, since nothing over there was really open yet (we were really the first guests over there). We told her, and she said they weren't using FPs, but she asked us to hold on while she disappeared, came back, and we were on the "VIP list". Went back later, got in early, got good center seats. But in the end, it was maybe half full, and there aren't really any bad seats, unless you want the best pictures from center (I got some really good ones).

I'm not even sure they do a "VIP list" any more.

Since then, the machines were RARELY used.

 

[WillAustin]

Exactly why fastpasses should NOT have been extended beyond rides. It's getting more and more complicated. The premutations are insane, there must be hundreds of possible fastpass reservation arrangements.

I'd say it's probably the exact reason FP+ is being extended beyond the rides. They want so many options that there isn't a concentrated focus on the 10 attractions that most guests would always pick in advance. If they can spread it all out having so many choices maybe most new guests won't notice.

 

[Squidgyness]

Just to add a bit of history...regular use of FP at LMA didn't even make it two years.

It officially opened in May 2005.

We went in July 2006. We got Fastpasses for it then. Still had to wait a while, and it ended up being rained out. Fastpasses were useless because they were tied to the particular show.

In July 2007, we went over early to get Fastpasses, since we still hadn't seen it and didn't want to take a chance (didn't know then about the capacity, etc. and in 2006 it was VERY busy). Got intercepted by a CM on the way asking where we were heading, since nothing over there was really open yet (we were really the first guests over there). We told her, and she said they weren't using FPs, but she asked us to hold on while she disappeared, came back, and we were on the "VIP list". Went back later, got in early, got good center seats. But in the end, it was maybe half full, and there aren't really any bad seats, unless you want the best pictures from center (I got some really good ones).

I'm not even sure they do a "VIP list" any more.

Since then, the machines were RARELY used.

Precisely! What would you think if you got a FP to get in early to LMA and realised if you had still turned up 30 mins early (like you did to use that prebooked pass) but this time without a fastpass and had just stood in the standby area you'd have gotten in and gotten a fairly decent seat anway. This is predisposed on them not giving too many seats to FP, but I don't think they will.

I can't imagine them allocating more than 10%, maybe 20% of the seats to FP. Not if they don't want to risk a lot more angry guests who can't get in.

Say a 30% allocation would basically mean you'd have to be there very early in standby and result in a significant number of grouchy guests being left out. Anything much more than 30% would result in a large crowd in effect being told "If only you had booked FP you would have been guaranteed a seat." Result = not pretty, and not a good message to send out.

Do people get left out of shows because they get full now? If they do, toss in FP and you will multiply that number of people.

Silly idea.

 

[doconeill]

Precisely! What would you think if you got a FP to get in early to LMA and realised if you had still turned up 30 mins early (like you did to use that prebooked pass) but this time without a fastpass and had just stood in the standby area you'd have gotten in and gotten a fairly decent seat anway. This is predisposed on them not giving too many seats to FP, but I don't think they will.

I can't imagine them allocating more than 10%, maybe 20% of the seats to FP. Not if they don't want to risk a lot more angry guests who can't get in.

Say a 30% allocation would basically mean you'd have to be there very early in standby and result in a significant number of grouchy guests being left out. Anything much more than 30% would result in a large crowd in effect being told "If only you had booked FP you would have been guaranteed a seat." Result = not pretty, and not a good message to send out.

Do people get left out of shows because they get full now? If they do, toss in FP and you will multiply that number of people.

Silly idea.

Honestly, currently I can't imagine not being able to walk up right at show time and not getting a seat. I think they could allocate any number to FP+ and it wouldn't matter.

 

[Squidgyness]

Honestly, currently I can't imagine not being able to walk up right at show time and not getting a seat. I think they could allocate any number to FP+ and it wouldn't matter.

I don't know. If FP+ entices people to the shows who wouldnt have before (or not at that time at least), which Disney seems to want, it could mess the current attendances up... in a good or bad way remains to be seen.

Disney seems to be forgetting that when you start messing with the way crowds naturally flow, strange things can happen. How many road systems have looked good on paper for directing people, but they don't actually work in real life situations. People aren't lab rats, they mostly don't blindly follow a piece of cheese held in front of them. Notice I said mostly

The thing with this system that really sticks in my throat isn't that people who plan in advance might get some advantage, they do now, and so they should, but it doesn't impact other guests all that much through standby times etc, and it is on their own merits.

It is that Disney is going to increase or decrease this advantage (depending who you are and what you think of the FP limits) themselves along with damaging non-planning guests experiences. I don't like it, I don't think it makes sense to spend 1BN on it and I really don't like the feeling that they are trying to make us do what they want. Put a carrot out there, fine. Carrot and stick has been mentioned. Don't employ the stick too much or people will see its use and wonder what you are up to...

 

[Rileygirl]

edited to delelte

 

[Rileygirl]

A quick reply regarding shows on the grid

Im with Will Austin on this: they had to be put on the grid for crowd management and fp availability.

And, no one knows the exact ratio Disney uses for FP vs Standby on an hourly rate but Im going to bet that its currently more then 10%, and could go up to 50% in time. This will have a huge impact on standby lines, especially for slow loading attractions.

 

[fflmaster]

Considering that X number of Fantasmic! FP positions would have already been distributed over the 60 days prior for FP+,

at what time would all of the "day-of" Fantasmic! FP's be given out for the day at DHS ?

-Show your work.

(This test will count as 50% of your semester grade.)

Robo, you the man of sarcasm but I will play along.

I know another poster put out an article with details of ride capacity for each at Disney World. I am not going to try to find this article, but I am sure you know it more then I.

From my understanding, Fantasmic has roughly 7900 Seating (after the addition) and 3000 stand by. So I would guess (no hard numbers), that about 1600 is allotted for the dining package. That leaves about 6300 seats. After the recent tests, it seemed to me they saved half of the seats for standby and the other half for Fastpass. So lets now take out another 3150 in seats. The final number available for FP seems to be 3150.

Ok, now how many will be for FP+ and what could be left for same day Fastpass. I would say they allow another two sections for FP+ thus about 1600 to be scheduled with the remainder of 1550 for daily Fastpass.

I would estimate that this is probably very close to the amount of FP avail for TSMM under the current system. If that is correct I would estimate the the remaining FP would be gone by 12 -1pm.

If Disney offers two shows on a night I would guess that it would also offer FP+ for an additional 1600 available. Now the dining package isn't available for the second show, so this would open up a bunch of more daily FP daily. I would argue another 3200 daily FP. In this scenario daily FP would be available to about 7pm.

For me the fact that disney is putting the FP+ option on almost EVERY ride. They expect the main rides to be booked up. Since you have to figure less then 50% of people will schedule their rides 60 days out (Most will probably try to schedule the day before or during their trip sometime). I am expecting that people will notice that they can't pre-schedule the E-attractions, thus using FP+ on the lessor rides, parades, fireworks and meet and greets.

I can't see a way that the amount of FP+ options scheduled by everyone not to have about 50% available during the day. This could be for normal everyday use or the surprise FP. Unless you truly think Disney is going to allow EVERY single FP to be scheduled prior to someones arrival. How many people is this going to upset? Too many for me to think we are not going to have both options.

In conclusion, if Disney follows along this path we should have some limited available FP available each and every day. These may go fast for many rides, but I still think they will be available. My guess is somewhere about 50-60% of what is available today. Rides like PP, SM, TSM and EE will probably go very fast.

So did I pass my final this year?

 

[Squidgyness]

Squidgyness

I read that reply. Its interesting, because all my though process is 'north american' based, and not internationally based. I think Canadians and Americans are very similar regarding vacation data

I think the norm is 1 week for north americans for vacations whereas Europeans (brits in particular) and those Aussies out there, will vacation for 2-3 weeks at a time.

I was reading some blog somewhere, back in Feb, when the FP Capacity thread in the rumours board was ongoing, that because North Americans only do 1 week trips typically, there was enough to do between the 6 theme parks that adding another park would not in fact increase disneys coffers. They only had to maintain, and mildly update to keep it going. (Hey, not saying this is true, just read it and it stuck in my mind)

So, your issues by virtue of being an international traveler, and the length of your stay, brings up a whole different can of worms to think about. I do believe that with those that are staying 2-3 weeks in the orlando area will purchase both disney and uni tickets because they have the time to do justice to both. However, I maintain that most people (I think, no statistical info to back me up on this) who stay for 1 week will primarily choose one or the other.

I think you also mentioned something about how you have to purchase tickets, and I want to go back and read on that.

I guess one question would be: how big of the population is our international travelers? I would imagine quite a large portion if one only thinks of the brazilian tour groups in the winter. So this could be a big impact. Makes one think

Robo: thats the longest post I think I have ever seen you make! I think maybe we could be that focus group for Disney. Lets see if they pay attention to what 'the people' say.

Jade: Pictures are gorgeous. Thanks for sharing them. I have my doubts how valuable a fp for fireworks is really going to be, if you still have to get there an hour early. But for some, it might work.

If I had to guesstimate I'd say at most 2/3rds to 3/4ers (depending on time of year) are north american guests in origin, with the remaining 1/3 to 1/4 being international. I'd also say 2/3rds to 3/4rs roughly are onsite guests with the rest offsite.

Might seem like international guests or offsite guests, only making up a minority, are less significant. But companies have faltered on losing fewer customers, particularly in a cut-throat industry with no let-ups. Tourism is a particularly vulnerable industry in this regard.

Granted Disney are one of the most secure in this industry, but they aren't immune. I went after 9/11 in 03 and it was pretty dead then, admittedly an extreme example. However, it shows that Disney doesn't exist in it's own bubble and I wonder if the execs are starting to think they do, or could in the future.

This seems like a massive double edged sword if you ask me. Which edge will be sharper... who knows.

---

30-50% fp allocation for shows... all i'm saying is they better have a good alternative lined up when they have to close the theatres (because as a PP said, people will book up for shows if rides get sold out of FP's, so if shows sell out too, that's 30-50% seating gone before any standby get in! I remember that in 09 I saw some full shows without FP being used, including Indy, LMA and the muppets. I don't know if this will affect me too much bacause in 09 we still got awesome seats as we arrived early. In FP+ scenario, we'd most likely still get in but have different seats.)

I suppose people at that full indy show were turned away, but that was A) just before showtime, in FP+ scenario they might fill up earlier, and B) No one got in first unless they turned up first. Waiting 20 minutes then seeing someone in the FP+ line go in ahead of you despite arriving after you, then being told you can't go in? Would be a problem if that occurs.

One "Sorry sir the theatre is full" all that goodwill gained by giving guests a prebooked fastpass for an earlier ride goes out the window. Doesn't matter if they should have gotten a fastpass beforehand, people will not react well imo.

Like I said, there is a big mental difference between waiting longer for a ride (which runs constantly) and not being able to get into a show. In a ride queue you are still moving up, just slower. Not getting into a show is a much more literal door being slammed in your face.