FP+ Details Are Out!

[Cafeen]

I agree with the comments that ADRs are simply different in terms of guest expectations. I see ADRs as something that enhance the Disney experience for some people but are not essential for most people. They are very different than major attractions that are included in an already-purchased very expensive theme park ticket. I think most people have a least heard of the concept of hard to get dinner reservations and aren't very surprised that Disney's most popular restaurants are that way. It will be interesting to see how FP+ is promoted in terms of creating expectations both for early reserving and last minute changes, how much guests are prompted to make their selections before their trip, and how it will play out in reality. I'm a little nervous about our first spring break trip next April. Maybe I'll scrap that and plan a cruise instead. Much less stress.

To highlight this... (quoting to support )

How many here would feel their trip was at least somewhat worthwhile if they didn't go to any restaurants?

How many here would feel their trip was at least somewhat worthwhile if they didn't visit any attractions?

Not to skew my own results (since that's a highly unscientific poll anyway ), but I'm sure that many more people would rather attractions over dining if given an either/or.

Now, supply and demand differ between restaurants and attractions as well (as we all know.) The question (that we can't answer) is whether or not the supply of FP+ for particular attractions for particular times will keep up with demand? Will all the headliners be BOGs of the FPR world? It's certainly possible depending on the details. That's what scares a lot of people.

Of course, this is just to illustrate the difference in guest expectation between ADRs and FPRs. I, by no means, mean to say that this is a use case or hypothetical situation where you'd get 0 attractions in if you didn't get FP+. I feel I have to disclaim that before someone takes it out of context...

I agree that these are ALL POSSIBLE, but, this is all total speculation, and nothing more.

And I am still not sure about the last point, getting conflicting reports about same day FPs in addition to your pre-booked. But, time will tell, but I also think its fair to say, that if we are truly limited to 3 per day, and no same day, I, and many others, will not be happy.

Another thing to think about. Some of us (I think most of us) are assuming that the "Same Day" FP+s would be in addition to our 3 prebooked ones. This may not be the case as the testing groups only ever got 3 (though, from what I hear, if they missed one, they were allowed to rebook another one.)

Of course, pure speculation and hypothetical, but throws another wrench into the works...

 

[Robo]

To highlight this... (quoting to support )

How many here would feel their trip was at least somewhat worthwhile if they didn't go to any restaurants?

How many here would feel their trip was at least somewhat worthwhile if they didn't visit any attractions?

Not to skew my own results (since that's a highly unscientific poll anyway ), but I'm sure that many more people would rather attractions over dining if given an either/or.

Now, supply and demand differ between restaurants and attractions as well (as we all know.) The question (that we can't answer) is whether or not the supply of FP+ for particular attractions for particular times will keep up with demand? Will all the headliners be BOGs of the FPR world? It's certainly possible depending on the details. That's what scares a lot of people.

Of course, this is just to illustrate the difference in guest expectation between ADRs and FPRs. I, by no means, mean to say that this is a use case or hypothetical situation where you'd get 0 attractions in if you didn't get FP+. I feel I have to disclaim that before someone takes it out of context...


Another thing to think about. Some of us (I think most of us) are assuming that the "Same Day" FP+s would be in addition to our 3 prebooked ones. This may not be the case as the testing groups only ever got 3 (though, from what I hear, if they missed one, they were allowed to rebook another one.)

Of course, pure speculation and hypothetical, but throws another wrench into the works...

You can't hide it in self-deprecating disclaimers...
you're making stuff up.

 

[Cafeen]

You can't hide it in self-deprecating disclaimers...
you're making stuff up.

I'm 100% free to make stuff up. So long as I don't present it as fact

 

[buckeev]

There have been many, many threads about FP+ and the cellphone/device battery issues
have been discussed in quite a few.

There are to be (already are?) kiosks in the parks that allow guests to access
their FP+ files.

(And, yes, the speculation is that actually being able to GET TO one of them might
require a "FP line" of it's own.)

I don't doubt that...I just hadn't seen a mention of it on this thread.

and yeah, the Kiosks lines might be as bad as the ride line itself.

 

[doggydoc]

This is the doom and gloom I am talking about - people getting all excited and riled up and posting conjecture as fact. We know only what Disney had put out and it has been changing all the time - this should be an indication that no one knows anything.

Which is why there is conjecture. If Disney would simply release more information we could be discussing facts. And for the record I have followed every FP+ post since they started and except for a few trolls have not seen anyone stating conjecture as fact, simply presenting hypotheticals.

Here's my final word...do you think us Disney Planning crazies outnumber regular guests who still won't book FP+? come on - how many of us have seen countless people ignoring the Fast pass stuff or thinking it is extra $$ when it is right in front of their faces.

What makes you think they will go on a computer 60 days before and book their ride times?

This is great circular logic. One of the major arguments proposed for why FP+ would be limited when this all started was that limitations make it easier for the average Joe to get their TSMM FP's without the rope drop rush. Your argument is the opposite, Disney is doing FP+ for the planners not the average Joe. Well this board may not be very representative of the "average" Disney guest but it and others like it are a pretty fair slice of planners. Overwhelmingly the response has been negative (and not just here). If FP+ is for planners and same day FP's aren't available Disney has woefully misgauged the response. (I personally think this is possible, they thought we uber planners would line up to trade multiple FP's for the ability to preschedule). I am a planner and would not trade the current system for FP+(assuming a hard limit of 3/1 park) if offered the choice. So who does the system benefit then?

IF same day FP's are available (and we don't know so that is just as much conjecture as anything in this thread) then this could be a great system but there has been NOTHING to support that conjecture. We have definitive statements from Disney saying it's FP+ OR original FP not both(despite this being allowed in testing). We have seen nothing that would indicate how you would get a same day FP unless Disney is assuming everyone will have a smartphone or they plan on placing A LOT more kiosks than we have evidence of so far because you can't get a FP with your MagicBand. Also there have been some pretty reliable sources stating original FP is on the way out.

Shocking.

 

[mom2rtk]

To highlight this... (quoting to support )

How many here would feel their trip was at least somewhat worthwhile if they didn't go to any restaurants?

How many here would feel their trip was at least somewhat worthwhile if they didn't visit any attractions?

Not to skew my own results (since that's a highly unscientific poll anyway ), but I'm sure that many more people would rather attractions over dining if given an either/or.

Not to mention that if you don't get an ADR, they don't charge you for the meal.

You are charged the same admission to the park whether you do 9 attractions or 18. That tends to get people a little more invested in how this goes.

 

[DVCBELLE]

Your post just made me think of another issue...

at 180 days out I plan my dining. I am there 4 days and can only get BoG reservations on Day 2. So of course I take it. Then it is time for rides at 60 days out...and I can only get TSM on Day 2.

So now I am either in 200 bucks for park hoppers for my family of 4, take my chance at RD on our day we have planned at the Studios except I booked my kids on a pirate cruise that morning so we will have to cancel that because there aren't any other ones they can go on...or tell my daughter that she can't go to BoG so her brother can ride TSM or tell my son he can't ride so his sister can eat at BoG!

Seriously, its like Universal sent in a group of employees to run Disney's development on this....

No need to go looking for my post...i will quote it for you and I stand by it! At 180 days I lock in my park day when i choose my dining. At 60 days what if I can't get the rides I want in the park i have ADRs for? Under the SCENARIO I posted then a choice woukd have to be made.

It is a fact that under every test you can only FP one park per day. It is a fact that BOG is the most popular ADR....It is a fact that TSM is the most popular FP. It is a fact that unless they suddenly have unlimited TSM FP availability then this could be a possibility.

The point of this thread is to express legitimate concerns about the system...and this is one of mine.

 

[Lizziejane]

That is what I was thinking would happen but some DISers have pointed out that because the FP lines will grow, the wait at SB may be longer. The amount of people may be less, but if they are letting the FP holders on first then SB people will just have to wait. The time in line may not be any different. Kind of makes sense.

Does sending a letter really make any difference? Do they only use the feedback of those who have tested as opposed to those who think they know what is going to happen? If the testers are happy with it, but non-testers are complaining does Disney care?

but if everyone is limited to 3 FP's under the new system, then wouldn't the overall number of FP's be reduced from what is issued now? There are lots of people who routinely use 5, 6 or even more FP per day. So there will be fewer people returning with a FP in hand.

I don't know why I'm even trying to figure this out in my head...LOL...it will be what it will be...and I'm driving myself nuts in the meantime

 

[Yellowstonetim]

No need to go looking for my post...i will quote it for you and I stand by it! At 180 days I lock in my park day when i choose my dining. At 60 days what if I can't get the rides I want in the park i have ADRs for? Under the SCENARIO I posted then a choice woukd have to be made.

It is a fact that under every test you can only FP one park per day. It is a fact that BOG is the most popular ADR....It is a fact that TSM is the most popular FP. It is a fact that unless they suddenly have unlimited TSM FP availability then this could be a possibility.

The point of this thread is to express legitimate concerns about the system...and this is one of mine.

I think the scenario that 180 days out and then 60 days out you won't be able to get reservations on the same day for those two things is HIGHLY unlikely!! If you wait, maybe.

One thing nobody is saying is that there is no going back to the "good ol' days." Park attendance is on the rise and will continue to do so. Avatar, Cars, and Star Wars will only increase attendance. Not to mention that the population continues to rise.

Disney needs to do this to preserve some quality experience for the highest number.

Even if Fast Passes are limited or unavailable one day, I will still have the first few hours and the last few hours to ride what I want!! Not go to Disney just because I'm limited to 3 FP (which is not set in stone but is only the beginning point until they know more) NO WAY!! There are so many things they can add to make this work.

I don't remember any big IT debacle that Disney had to backtrack and remove it was so bad. Does anybody else?

This system is going to be so flexible. They can change how many FP's you get at any time and change the rules at any time based on what happens. They can change these things by the minute.

I LOVE the ADR and I love the FP idea. Why? Because it is insurance that I can get the restaurant I want and the special rides I want months in advance when I plan and reserve my vacation. I will settle for less rides to know I will be guaranteed a few special ones. And I won't be giving up anything because there are still the few hours at the beginning and end of the day!!

Looking at the power of the information this will provide and how it will allow Disney to adjust things on the fly to make OUR experience better, I am all for it. BUT, we are planners and knowlegeable so many of us have used a lot of FP's and that was not the original purpose. If Disney designs a system that doesn't allow me to game the system and max out on FP's, but allows many more people to get those special rides in without a long line, I'm OK with that.

I will have a blast regardless of FP, FP+, or both of them being down!

P.S. I think guessing and making pronouncements based on guesses IS MAKING THINGS UP! It is a matter of semantics. And as far as it being educated guessing: I think it is 98% guessing and 2% educated. PLEASE don't cancel 2014 plans based on this thread!!!! But everyone is entitled to their own opinion and is entitled to express it here.

I am absolutely stoked about the possibilities. I do understand that others are uneasy and I do hope everybody's expectations are met. I want us all to have a good vacation!

And yes, I know, I will go back to my corner and drink my koolaid.


Raise your glasses of Romulan ale and join me in a toast: To the undiscovered country!

 

[TLSnell1981]

This makes my head hurt. I see no APs or PHs in our future.

 

[Shaden]

but if everyone is limited to 3 FP's under the new system, then wouldn't the overall number of FP's be reduced from what is issued now? There are lots of people who routinely use 5, 6 or even more FP per day. So there will be fewer people returning with a FP in hand.

I don't know why I'm even trying to figure this out in my head...LOL...it will be what it will be...and I'm driving myself nuts in the meantime

I know the point you are making, and it seems good at first glance, but what would happen is that using those FPs at the major rides, TSM, Splash, Space Mountain, 7 Dwarfs, etc. Will become a MUST, and those rides will book up completely (theoretically, unless they also limit the total # of FPs on a ride/day, which itself has even MORE problems) well in advance.

This would essentially nullify Fps altogether. Doing an MK day, ok, make sure you have you SM, SPlash, and 7DMT or BTM FPs, and then do standby on everything else .... yay.

 

[WillAustin]

but if everyone is limited to 3 FP's under the new system, then wouldn't the overall number of FP's be reduced from what is issued now? There are lots of people who routinely use 5, 6 or even more FP per day. So there will be fewer people returning with a FP in hand.

I don't think so. I'd bet that most people in the parks probably use less than three, if not zero. Those who use 5 or more each day are a minority.

With FP+ I believe there will be more people wanting to use them than currently use FPs, especially once they make the selection an easy and obvious part of the ticket/resort reservation process.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

I think the scenario that 180 days out and then 60 days out you won't be able to get reservations on the same day for those two things is HIGHLY unlikely!! If you wait, maybe.

One thing nobody is saying is that there is no going back to the "good ol' days." Park attendance is on the rise and will continue to do so. Avatar, Cars, and Star Wars will only increase attendance. Not to mention that the population continues to rise.

Disney needs to do this to preserve some quality experience for the highest number.

Even if Fast Passes are limited or unavailable one day, I will still have the first few hours and the last few hours to ride what I want!! Not go to Disney just because I'm limited to 3 FP (which is not set in stone but is only the beginning point until they know more) NO WAY!! There are so many things they can add to make this work.

I don't remember any big IT debacle that Disney had to backtrack and remove it was so bad. Does anybody else?

This system is going to be so flexible. They can change how many FP's you get at any time and change the rules at any time based on what happens. They can change these things by the minute.

I LOVE the ADR and I love the FP idea. Why? Because it is insurance that I can get the restaurant I want and the special rides I want months in advance when I plan and reserve my vacation. I will settle for less rides to know I will be guaranteed a few special ones. And I won't be giving up anything because there are still the few hours at the beginning and end of the day!!

Looking at the power of the information this will provide and how it will allow Disney to adjust things on the fly to make OUR experience better, I am all for it. BUT, we are planners and knowlegeable so many of us have used a lot of FP's and that was not the original purpose. If Disney designs a system that doesn't allow me to game the system and max out on FP's, but allows many more people to get those special rides in without a long line, I'm OK with that.

I will have a blast regardless of FP, FP+, or both of them being down!

P.S. I think guessing and making pronouncements based on guesses IS MAKING THINGS UP! It is a matter of semantics. And as far as it being educated guessing: I think it is 98% guessing and 2% educated. PLEASE don't cancel 2014 plans based on this thread!!!! But everyone is entitled to their own opinion and is entitled to express it here.

I am absolutely stoked about the possibilities. I do understand that others are uneasy and I do hope everybody's expectations are met. I want us all to have a good vacation!

And yes, I know, I will go back to my corner and drink my koolaid.


Raise your glasses of Romulan ale and join me in a toast: To the undiscovered country!

I know it will not surprise anyone that I agree with you. So bottoms up!

Wrt the IT issue: I can't recall anything where the IT-messiness caused them to PULL an offering... but they do seem to be slow to get things fully functional.

While I'm optimistic about the possibilities, it would stink if they were still working out the IT kinks on our vacation -- and I'd feel for anyone that would affect -- so frustrating. I still think they'll get it "right" in the end... but how far off is that end...?

 

[Shaden]

P.S. I think guessing and making pronouncements based on guesses IS MAKING THINGS UP! It is a matter of semantics. And as far as it being educated guessing: I think it is 98% guessing and 2% educated. PLEASE don't cancel 2014 plans based on this thread!!!! But everyone is entitled to their own opinion and is entitled to express it here.

!

Ok so long as you will admit that half your post was you making things up

At least you say people are welcome to do so

But, I will say this, you have a lot of faith in Disney, and if you follow their performance, and decision making, they really aren't interested in much more then milking you for as much money as possible while giving you just enough satisfaction for them to be able to keep getting that money from you.

Also, I can't believe you just said you are OK with doing less rides/attractions on the new system, while you will be paying more (prices went up again already) ...

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

I don't think so. I'd bet that most people in the parks probably use less than three, if not zero. Those who use 5 or more each day are a minority.

With FP+ I believe there will be more people wanting to use them than currently use FPs, especially once they make the selection an easy and obvious part of the ticket/resort reservation process.

I see your point. I could be totally wrong, but I'd guess that a chunk (scientific term) of those who currently use 0 or under 3 will not pay much attention to the reservation process, and are probably more likely to just be no-shows at their return time than you or I. And I know I've let more than one FP "expire" when our plans unexpectedly changed. But who knows...

 

[MolonLabe]

My fingers are crossed for some FP+'s. We are doing CR for a week and have a full package.

I'd love to have some extra fast passes in hand to head out with!

 

[Cafeen]

but if everyone is limited to 3 FP's under the new system, then wouldn't the overall number of FP's be reduced from what is issued now? There are lots of people who routinely use 5, 6 or even more FP per day. So there will be fewer people returning with a FP in hand.

I don't know why I'm even trying to figure this out in my head...LOL...it will be what it will be...and I'm driving myself nuts in the meantime

Pretty much what Shaden says...

I know the point you are making, and it seems good at first glance, but what would happen is that using those FPs at the major rides, TSM, Splash, Space Mountain, 7 Dwarfs, etc. Will become a MUST, and those rides will book up completely (theoretically, unless they also limit the total # of FPs on a ride/day, which itself has even MORE problems) well in advance.

This would essentially nullify Fps altogether. Doing an MK day, ok, make sure you have you SM, SPlash, and 7DMT or BTM FPs, and then do standby on everything else .... yay.

(Quoted for support and expansion)

For MK, somewhat. Since there are more than 3 headliners/high demand FP attractions, those people pulling multiple FPs for the same ride will likely go away from the FP system (well, they'll be there, just with 1 FP instead of 2 or 3).

DHS, AK, and Epcot are a bit different though. Since the primary FP attractions at these parks is <= 3 (DHS with 3, AK/Epcot with 2), the headliners here will likely be swarmed with FP holders, backing up the S/B line more (since, it's been common knowledge that they've increased the amount of FPs at most of the headlining attractions "in preparation for" FP+). Added to this, likely less "waste" of FPs (that is, a higher amount of "pulled" FPs will be used), and you'll have longer FP lines making longer S/B lines.

Basically, it'll likely (yes, I say "likely" a lot, so I don't get charged with presenting it as fact) concentrate the FP users to fewer attractions.

In other words...what Shaden says there

 

[Planogirl]

This might actually make it easier for us to go to Universal...

We routinely go to both. We enjoyed one fabulous trip where we park hopped between Disney and Universal in the same day a few times. I could see us booking 3 attractions at a Disney park in the evening and then enjoying a Universal park earlier in the day. I see no point in waiting in long lines at the Disney park when we don't have to.

 

[BuckeyeBama]

Meh - no new information except that about APs. Still no idea whether or not patrons will be limited to only FPs reserved under FP+. If we can still get FPs as we wish while in the parks in addition to those reserved, this will be a huge "plus". If not, WDW drops way down my list of vacation destinations.

The good news - 60 days out means that this will not be in place for my trip in August.

 

[mom2rtk]

using those FPs at the major rides, TSM, Splash, Space Mountain, 7 Dwarfs, etc. Will become a MUST,

Oh my, I had completely forgotten to consider what a huge draw new Mine Coaster is going to be. That one could easily surpass TSMM as the one to get, at least for a while (much like BOG quickly became the ADR to get).

I don't think so. I'd bet that most people in the parks probably use less than three, if not zero. Those who use 5 or more each day are a minority.

With FP+ I believe there will be more people wanting to use them than currently use FPs, especially once they make the selection an easy and obvious part of the ticket/resort reservation process.

I agree. As I have contended from day 1, participation rises with every obstacle that is removed. And physically needing to cross the park to access FP was an obstacle.

And don't forget the hints that Disney might assign quick picks.