FP - allowed returns later than 1, 2 or more hours??

[WillAustin]

So it appears that FP enforcement will not hit the rope drop people as hard.

That's what I like to hear!

 

[UNCFanatik]

The supposed negative effect of late FP use in the past IS what a lot of posters here hang their hats on. My last post attempted to address that by showing that it was false regardless of whether late FP use was rare or rampant.

I'm not one of the people trying to argue both sides. I think some of what you're attributing to me, was my effort to point out the same discrepancy. Some people maintain that only a few "in the know" people used late FP, yet many of those same people maintained that the practice was so rampant that Disney finally had to "crack down" on the "rampant abuse." They alternate between these two concepts and cite both situations as having a negative effect. I was merely trying to show that either situation actually had a positive effect.

I DID at one point theorize that enforcement COULD be the reason for the longer FP lines that were recently reported (ok, admittedly my first post referring to this kind of stated it as a fact, but I thought it was sufficiently terse and sarcastic enough not to convey that I considered an absolute fact. I guess I should have added a smiley or something).

I also provided an example that did not support that theory (trying to be intellectually honest in my analysis and not discount any evidence that does not support the theory). Admittedly, the longer FP lines might not be due to more FP users being on time than in the past.

I honestly don't know if the true number of late FP users was very high or very low (kind of subjective when compared to the many guests there). I do think that a fair number of people knew that late use was allowed and that enforcement shoe-horns more people into a finite period of time rather than allowing the freedom to use them when lines are shorter. The end result of that is likely to be longer waits. But, I agree... the jury is still out. Even if longer waits do not result from enforcement, not enforcing the return window did not cause longer waits either. So you have a remedy where there was no problem. The best case scenario is that it does not increase wait times for those who "always used FP on time" but, no matter what, enforcement still has a negative effect on former late users who are now more inconvenienced. The worst case scenario is that enforcement increases waits for everyone. Either way, there is a net negative result.

OK, thanks. I better understand your theory now.

I would disagree that there was no problem in the past. For the sake of our discussion, i will concede that there was not any problem in wait times in the past when people used late FPs. The area that i see a problem in was the "hoarding" of FPs that contributed to FPs running out earlier in the day for some of the more popular attractions. I have read a few reports where people are saying that FPs were still available later in the day than they were in the past. AGAIN, too early to tell. And AGAIN, its hard to determine the amount of people who did this practice but if you say FP enforcement causes longer lines then you would have to concede that it also makes more FPs available later in the day.

Even though people may have enjoyed spreading "pixie dust" in the past by giving others FPs, it was never Disney's intention of having guests act as distribution proxies as it also was in the case of my last trip when people did the same with CRT ADRs.

It would be helpful to know EXACTLY why Disney implemented the enforcement. We can speculate all day about it being because of the NextGen implementation but we really dont know. All I have seen from a Disney rep on this was from the USA Today article:

http://usat.ly/wKnYQk

"Given the tremendous popularity of FastPass with our guests, in fairness to all we want to ensure we provide the same opportunity to everyone," said Disney spokesman Rick Sylvain.

If we were to take Mr Sylvain's quote at face value, we could infer that Disney thought the non-enforcement of the FP return window was a negative.

 

[TLSnell1981]

+1

I find the paradoxical argument provided by some here amusing. They say it is unfair because so few knew about it, but rampant abuse caused Disney to discontinue the practice.

I'm still pretty confident that is not the reason for the change.

That's a sure bet

Yep. I wish they'd make up their minds already. Are they mad nobody knew about? Or are they mad everybody knew about it?

I just can't wait, until Disney rolls out XPass. The endless threads of shrieks and howls, over how much $$$ it costs, who benefits most (besides Disney) and "it's not fair"?

 

[TLSnell1981]

. The area that i see a problem in was the "hoarding" of FPs that contributed to FPs running out earlier in the day for some of the more popular attractions. I have read a few reports where people are saying that FPs were still available later in the day than they were in the past.

There is a restriction, as to how often, a guest can pull a FP. I do not believe "hoarding" was really an issue...not for a NY minute.

It would be helpful to know EXACTLY why Disney implemented the enforcement. We can speculate all day about it being because of the NextGen implementation but we really dont know. All I have seen from a Disney rep on this was from the USA Today article:.

Disney's spending billions of $$$$ on NexGen. Do you really question "why" they're enforcing FP windows?

 

[WillAustin]

Disney's spending billions of $$$$ on NexGen. Do you really question "why" they're enforcing FP windows?

I agree. I also think the number of FPs that go unused every day will go up with the new enforcement, not down. Maybe that will make some extra room for more X-Passes.

 

[UNCFanatik]

Disney's spending billions of $$$$ on NexGen. Do you really question "why" they're enforcing FP windows?

Can you tell me EXACTLY how the NexGen system will work?
Do you have all the details on it yet?
Do you have the phases on how they will roll it out?


Yes, I do question WHY they are enforcing FP return windows now because no one knows for sure. It may turn out that it has nothing to do with the NexGen system or it may just be phase 1 in a plan.

But all you and I have now is speculation.

 

[sbell111]

Well, it is possible that majority of FP users did not know or did not want to use FP late and at the same time a lot of people used late FPs. We are talking about % here. For system like FP to work majority has to be on time, which is why they never got rid of return time, with a particular % of variations allowed. I think it is totally logical to assume that in years % grew and simply reached tipping point.

Your post makes two huge assuptions. Frist, it assumes that such a 'tipping point' actually exists. Second, it assumes that this point was reached.

Only in the extreme hypothetical can I imagine that such a point exists. From my experience in the parks, I don't believe that such a point was even remotely close to being reached.

 

[magicbob]

The area that i see a problem in was the "hoarding" of FPs that contributed to FPs running out earlier in the day for some of the more popular attractions.

I guess I belong to the school of thought that the reports of FP "hoarding" were greatly exaggerated. Essentially, the term "hoarding" FPs was employed merely to further denigrate those who used a FP late. I don't think there ever really was any "hoarding" of FPs. Only people who saved a handful to use later. Here again, those FPs WERE USED, just as they would have been earlier in the day. Whether used "on time" or not, that FP was spoken for and not available to someone else.

Calling late FP use "hoarding" misses the point that those people only had the same number of FPs they would have had even if they used them on time. Holding onto FPs until a time after the window did not provide any advantage in getting more FPs than anyone else. Everyone has always been on a level playing field where this is concerned. What dictates how many FPs a person is able to collect (whether used only during the window or not) is how early they arrive and if they pull another FP as soon as they're able to do so. It has nothing to do with how those FPs are eventually used.

Currently, I don't think enforcement makes more FPs available. I'll concede that enforcement might , in a few rare cases, cause some people to not take a FP when they ordinarily would have (thus making more available to others). However, I think that is highly unlikely to happen in any significant numbers. If better availability of FPs becomes the norm, then I'll admit there was at least one positive effect to enforcement, but I wouldn't bet on that happening. Those who arrive early and maximize FP use will still cause them to run out early (especially for popular attractions).

 

[KellyNY]

You just said it's possible that a majority of FP users used it on time and that for the system to work a majority have to use it on time. Therefore, under your example, the system worked.

I think the more logical conclusion, when taking all the information we have into consideration, is that this is in preparation for the Nextgen system.

I said majority on time and particular % not on time. I did not say tipping point is 51%, I do not know what it is. I understand that my scenario is just a theory but so is NextGen.

 

[WillAustin]

Those who arrive early and maximize FP use will still cause them to run out early (especially for popular attractions).

We are always at Rope Drop, and we make sure we get our FPs immediately when they become available. The new enforcement of the time window won't slow us down in acquiring our FPs at all. We still want to make sure we get as many as possible on each day. If something comes up and we miss a window, no big deal, but it won't keep us from getting them whenever we can.

 

[magicbob]

We are always at Rooe Drop, and we make sure we get our FPs immediately when they become available. The new enforcement of the time window won't slow us down in acquiring our FPs at all. We still want to make sure we get as many as possible on each day. If something comes up and we miss a window, no big deal, but it won't keep us from getting them whenever we can.

And we are not alone. I'd be willing to bet MOST of the people who are motivated enough to get up that early and ensure they make it by RD are savvy enough to plan and pay attention to when another FP is available and make sure they get another as soon as they can. I know we will still do this. It will be less convenient having to come back at a specific time, but it won't slow us down in maximizing FP usage. I will be monitoring apps on my phone so I know if the FP for one attraction happens to be during an ADR, I can see at a glance that I can get one for a different attraction instead and then as soon as I'm allowed to get another FP, by that time the return window for that first attraction should be past the conflicting time.

 

[Muslickz]

I said majority on time and particular % not on time. I did not say tipping point is 51%, I do not know what it is. I understand that my scenario is just a theory but so is NextGen.

lol it sounds about right to me... good for you for speaking up

-M

 

[White_Sox_Fan]

I said majority on time and particular % not on time. I did not say tipping point is 51%, I do not know what it is. I understand that my scenario is just a theory but so is NextGen.

The point I was making is you said a majority used them on time and a majority is necessary for it to work properly.

If your point was that an unknown percentage of people were using them on time but that certain percentage of on time use is required to make the system work properly and that percentage was not achieved the you have a point, although I don't think your choice of verbiage conveyed that meaning well.

BTW, I'm sure that you are not surprised that I do not believe there was anywhere near the amount of "misuse" required to throw the whole system off.

As pointed out earlier those that put off using their FP's till much later in the day were doing the general crowd a favor. By early evening the attendance in the park begins to decrease and continues until closing, thus lines much later in the evening are shorter anyway. By delaying their FP use until this time more people could ride via the standby lines making wait time shorter at that time while standby lines continue to be shorter, even with late FP use, later in the day.

 

[danny1649]

Is now getting way off track and personal,to much debating.Time to close it and lets all move on.Restarting a closed thread is not allowed and I will handle it accordingly. Moderator Danny