Ford cutting 25 to 30 thousand jobs

[Galahad]

I think for many, the American Auto makers did their damage 20 years ago and will suffer from it for a long time regardless of what they do now. When we got fed up with the poor quality and switched to Honda's and Nissan's we were obviously quite please with our choice. We've bought nothing but them for the last 15 years. The only thing that would make me look at an American car again is if Honda or Toyota or Nissan started making bad cars. Otherwise, there is really no incentive to leave what works. Telling us that American cars are "rated" well now isn't enough of an incentive to give up a known quantity.

 

[Chicago526]

Ford?

Found
On
Road
Dead

or

Fix
Or
Repair
Daily

 

[Tigger_Magic]

I used to be a Ford fan, but when the time came to trade in our 14 year old Taurus (yes, we bought one of the first series), I finally gave up on Ford. With our old Taurus and our newer Explorer, we'd been through several recalls and lots of repairs. If quality was job #1 with Ford, then BOTH of our Fords slipped passed the quality folks. The Ford dealer was difficult to deal with and customer service was something like job #99,999.

We bought a new car in December. It was a Kia.

 

[dvcgirl]

In regards to the comments such as

"you can't count on the government or corporate america"

and the "fat pensions" problem :

No, we can't count on our government (Katrina and the Bush Administration failure of that one proved that).

And we obviously can't believe anything our employers tell us regarding how much they promise to compensate us for our labor (personally, I call that one "stealing" since a pension is part of a job package and if they fail to honor that package, well, it's just plain stealing from the employee)

So now that we have no retirement money and no government safety net, just how are these blue collar people supposed to "take care of themselves" in retirement? Especially when they make a salary that barely pays the morgage, car note, perscription bills, heat, gas, groceries, overly inflated insurance premiums that the companies don't want to pay anymore, etc....? They don't have any money to 'save' - shoot, most Americans have credit card debt in the thousands just so they can get by.

Rampent inflation (it's the highest it has been in five years) and salaries that fail to rise in response...these are weighty concerns. Our nation is in trouble. And it's clear that we don't have any leaders to lead us, so I guess you are right, we are on our own. Corporate America is only in it for themselves and the government just gets in the way or makes it worse.

Well, I think you bring up a valid question. How will blue collar America be able to support their families and save for retirment? They need to learn skills that are marketable in today's workforce. And those jobs aren't going to pay them 70k to stand on an assembly line. I know, I know...easier said than done. But pensions are *done*. They really are, other than in the public sector, we're are all going to be responsible for our own retirement. Even if I had a cushy state, school or county pension at this point...I'd be very nervous.

As for paying the bills. Well, I think we all need to take a good hard look at consumer spending in this country and re-learn the valuable skill that is called...."living within our means". If you haven't noticed, there are awful lot of luxury cars out on the roads today, far more than say 10 or 20 years ago. Who do you think is driving all of these cars....wealthy people? Think again, many of those cars are leased, and they are leased by people who are living above their means.

If you are saying that they simply can't feed their families on the income that they make. Well, find another job. Get a second job. Do what it takes to succeed.

A very good book that I read recently called "All Your Worth: The Ultimate Lifetime Money Plan" looked back generations to see just how our grandparents were able to make ends meet and retire with dignity. They looked at thousands of different households from the past and found the formula to success is as follows.

Spend no more than 50% of your "Must Haves". Your must haves are your mortgage/rent, transportation, utilities, food...clothing. That sort of thing. A Lexus isn't a "must have", but a 5 year old Toyota Corolla would be.

Spend 30% on your "Wants". This is where the trip to Mickey comes in...the starbucks Latte, the expensive jeans or earrings, meals out, movies, entertainment....on and on.

That leaves 20% for Savings.

People who get in over their heads for their "Must Haves" are buying too much house or a car that is too expensive. They're trying to save but they feel deprived.

There are a whole lotta people whose Must Haves are within that 50% range, but they aren't saving a blessed dime for the future. Because they're living a lifestyle they can't afford. Some will even head into Credit Card debt that they live so far above their means.

It's an interesting read and it gives you a good idea of what you really should be spending on those categories based on your income. The problem is that we live in a society with instant credit availability. And we want what we want.....and we want it now! This is why we are in such dibilitating Credit Card Debt and have incredibly low levels of retirement savings as a nation.

 

[TnKrBeLlA012]

I will only by an American car. If I don't support my own country and the people that work here what kind of an American would that make me? I have always driven GM cars. I have not always been happy but I would never think to buy a foreign car. I have an Envoy and I love it. I live in Michigan and my husband works for the auto industry. When the big three suffer we will all suffer. Finding a job or changing careers at a certain age is not always possible. I hope things turn around for the better.

 

[dvcgirl]

I will only by an American car. If I don't support my own country and the people that work here what kind of an American would that make me? I have always driven GM cars. I have not always been happy but I would never think to buy a foreign car. I have an Envoy and I love it. I live in Michigan and my husband works for the auto industry. When the big three suffer we will all suffer. Finding a job or changing careers at a certain age is not always possible. I hope things turn around for the better.

When you say "the the big three suffer, we will all suffer" are you referring to your family and folks in the industry....or all of us in this nation. While I certainly understand your allegance to American cars given your husband's job, I don't buy this..."buy American or you're not an American" stuff.

We're all buying products from all over the world, many times without even noticing. Don't believe me....take a look at the labels on the clothing that goes on your family members. Try and tally up the number of different nations where this clothing is made.

Having said that, my DH and I do not buy American cars. The quality is simply not there for the price.

 

[Puffy2]

A very good book that I read recently called "All Your Worth: The Ultimate Lifetime Money Plan" looked back generations to see just how our grandparents were able to make ends meet and retire with dignity. They looked at thousands of different households from the past and found the formula to success is as follows.

I think it's great if a person can retrain and snag a $70,000 a year job (but that "ain't" rich either - decent, but not rich.) But if everyone in America did that - first of all, there are only so many $70 K plus jobs to go around and second, who will fill the service jobs (trash man, waitress, custodian, teller, city clerk, etc...) - are these people (who work full time, sometimes with two jobs) not worthy of health care, care in their old age, the basic needs of life? Are we to tell them , "Sorry Joe, I know you picked up my garbage off the street for 40 years but you are SOL and what do you want now? A hand out?" Is this how we treat our fellow man?

And another point, I don't know about your grandparents, but mine lived during the depression. The robber barrons of the United States won the Capitalism Game and the rest of the country lost big time - as in, lost their homes and nearly starved to death big time. If it wasn't for FDR and his aggressive social plans the country would have dived into the depths of a third world nation (like Africa where the rich are very rich and everyone else is SOL). My grandparents (both sides) were only able to make ends meet and "retire" with dignity because of those social programs and because the extended family (aunts, uncles, cousins, "some guy", grand parents, kids) all moved in together in one house. Any other view is based on selective memory.

 

[Galahad]

I will only by an American car. If I don't support my own country and the people that work here what kind of an American would that make me?

Most "foreign" cars are made in America by Americans. Our Hondas were made in Ohio by Americans. My Nissan was made in Tennessee by Americans. There is no such thing as an "American" car or a "Japanese" car anymore.

 

[tandrjohn]

Ford?

Found
On
Road
Dead

or

Fix
Or
Repair
Daily

Not very original Chicago526, here are some better ones...

FORD:
First On Race Day
Fantastically Orgasmic Realistic Dream
Future Of Racings Delight

OR

FORD:
Frigin' Old Rebuilt Dodge
Fast Only Rolling Downhill
First On Recall Day
Fabricated Of Refried Dung
Fails On Rainy Days
Fatally Obese Redneck Driver
Fault Of R&D
Finally Obsolete Racing Device
Fireball On Rear Denting
First On Road to Dump
First On Rust and Deterioration
Fix Or Recycle Dilemma
Flipping Over Results in Death
Flipped Over Roadside Disaster
Follow Our Rusty Dogsled
Foot On Road Decelerates
Forced On Reluctant Drivers
Formed Of Rejected DNA
Forwarded Once; Return Denied
Forward Only; Reverse Defective
Forlorn, Old, Ratridden Dustbin
Fork Over Repair Dough
Fouled Out Re-done Dodge
Frequent Overhaul, Rapid Deterioration
Free Or Reduced Drastically
Frequent Opinion: Really Disappointed
Fumes and Odors Readily Detectable
Funny Old Rattling Dump
Forget Out Running Dale (Earnhardt or Jarrett)
Features O.J. and Ron`s DNA
Found Out-Right Dangerous

Here are some more examples:

ACURA:
Another Crummy, Useless, Rotten Automobile
Asia's Curse Upon Rural America

HONDA:
Honest Officer, Nobody Drank Anything
Had One Never Did Again
Hang On, Not Done Accelerating
Hallmark Of Non-Descript Automobiles
History Of No Dramatic Acceleration
How Odd, No Darn Acceleration?
PRELUDE: Pistons Rattle, Engine Locks Up, Differential Explodes

HYUNDAI:
Hope You Understand Nothing's Driveable And Inexpensive...

KIA:
Kick It Around
Kick It Again
Killed In Action

TOYOTA:
Too Often Yankees Overprice This Auto
Torturous On Your Old Tired ***
The One You Ought To Avoid

 

[TnKrBeLlA012]

Like I posted. I will only buy American cars. We are selling this country out on a daily basis. Almost every product we buy today is not made in the U.S. How sad is that. So when I go to purchase my car I want to at least support something I know that was made in America. I wonder how many of our products are purchased around the world? The WORST agreement this country made was the Free Trade Agreement. It sure is not fair to this country!

 

[Bob Slydell]

Like I posted. I will only buy American cars. We are selling this country out on a daily basis. Almost every product we buy today is not made in the U.S. How sad is that. So when I go to purchase my car I want to at least support something I know that was made in America. I wonder how many of our products are purchased around the world? The WORST agreement this country made was the Free Trade Agreement. It sure is not fair to this country!

Like others have posted, many "foreign" cars are MADE in America.

 

[Galahad]

Like others have posted, many "foreign" cars are MADE in America.

And most "American" cars have a lot of components made elsewhere. Heck, many "American" cars are made in Canada - some in Mexico I believe. Ask an American employee of Toyota in Kentucky or Indiana if they like their jobs and their life. Seems they are in a better position than American employees of the "big three".

 

[tandrjohn]

And most "American" cars have a lot of components made elsewhere. Heck, many "American" cars are made in Canada - some in Mexico I believe. Ask an American employee of Toyota in Kentucky or Indiana if they like their jobs and their life. Seems they are in a better position than American employees of the "big three".

Correct, there is no such thing as a "100% American-made car". For 2005 models, here are the top 3 "best" and the "worst" in terms of being "American made".

"Best":

2005 Chevrolet Astro Rwd Cargo Van 4.3v6 4spd Auto
USA Owned
USA Assembly- Baltimore, MD
USA Engine
USA Transmission
92% US/Canadian Parts Content

2005 Chevrolet Malibu Base Sedan 2.2L4 4spd Auto
USA Owned
USA Assembly- Kansas City, KS
USA Engine
USA Transmission
90% US/Canadian Parts Content

2005 Ford Taurus SE 4 Door Sedan 3.0v6 Auto OD
USA Owned
USA Assembly- Atlanta, GA
USA Engine
USA Transmission
90% US/Canadian Parts Content

"Worst":

2005 Chevrolet Silverado 1500 2wd Crew Cab LS 5.3v8 4spd Auto
USA Owned
Canada Assembly- Oshawa, ON
USA Engine
USA Transmission
90% US/Canadian Parts Content

2005 Ford Focus ZX5 SES 2.0 (i4?) Autotran
USA Owned
Mexico Assembly- Hermosillo
USA Engine
USA Transmission
60% US/Canadian Parts Content
15% Mexico Parts Content

2005 Ford Focus ZX5 2.0 (i4?) 5spd Man
USA Owned
Mexico Assembly- Hermosillo
USA Engine
Germany Transmission
60% US/Canadian Parts Content
15% Mexico Parts Content

 

[Buzz2001]

one word...UNION

 

[Chicago526]

tandrjohn, I had no idea there were so many! I only knew those two!

 

[RoyalCanadian]

Like I posted. I will only buy American cars. We are selling this country out on a daily basis. Almost every product we buy today is not made in the U.S. How sad is that. So when I go to purchase my car I want to at least support something I know that was made in America. I wonder how many of our products are purchased around the world? The WORST agreement this country made was the Free Trade Agreement. It sure is not fair to this country!

You don't have other countries to blame for the woes of foreign content. The companies that are sending American money abroad are American companies. It was Levi Strauss that chose to shut down all 60 of their American mills in order to purchase jeans from abroad. It is Wal-Mart that chooses to sell merchandise from Taiwan, Japan, Malaysia, Korea, etc.

I, for one, will continue to purchase "foreign" cars such as those manufactured by Hyundai. My last "American" made car was a 1996 Plymouth Neon Highline sedan with 20 documented problems. The Toyota salesman I spoke to in the summer of 2002 told me that the best thing that could have happened to me was the major accident that totalled the Neon -- as he handed me a three ring binder dedicated solely to the problems of the Plymouth/Dodge Neon.

The worst thing the Big 3 automakers ever did was force foreign automakers to produce vehicles in North America as a condition of selling vehicles in North America. They removed the argument against the "foreign" made vehicle.

Some of those "Korean" Hyundais are even made in the United States.