For you smokers out there......

[JimMIA]

I am serverly allergic to perfumes. Being in an airplane with someone wearing lots of perfume is absolutely unbearable for me--congestion, headache, thoat constriction, general cold symptoms. But alas, I deal with it because who am I to deny their right to wear perfume. Granted my allergy isn't life threatening, but it does impact how i feel and my symptoms.

I agree with you. Smoking on balconies should be permitted if a smoking room isn't available.

So my 4 y/o daughter, who has asthma, should be denied the use of her balcony (which is an integral part of her non-smoking medical necessity room, and her favorite play area) so that you can smoke on the balcony of your non-smoking room? Give me a break! Follow the rules.

 

[DVCconvert]

So my 4 y/o daughter, who has asthma, should be denied the use of her balcony (which is an integral part of her non-smoking medical necessity room, and her favorite play area) so that you can smoke on the balcony of your non-smoking room? Give me a break! Follow the rules.

And you're at geekgirl?

 

[JimMIA]

And you're at geekgirl?

No, just at her use of the terrible affliction with perfume being being compared with the effects of smoking.

 

[Nanajo1]

I think we have to be sensitive to the fact there are many allergens out there, perfume and smoke are among them. They both can cause life threatening reactions.

 

[dianeschlicht]

I think we have to be sensitive to the fact there are many allergens out there, perfume and smoke are among them. They both can cause life threatening reactions.

Absolutely correct. Fotunately, perfume allergy doesn't have the long term effects that second hand smoke does.

So my 4 y/o daughter, who has asthma, should be denied the use of her balcony (which is an integral part of her non-smoking medical necessity room, and her favorite play area) so that you can smoke on the balcony of your non-smoking room? Give me a break! Follow the rules.

Like your DD, I have asthma that would not only make sitting out on my balcony impossible if someone was smoking out on a balcony in the same building, but that smoke will then float back into my non-smoking villa, and THAT is a worse problem. You can't have things both ways. Either a building is COMPLETELY non-smoking or COMPLETELY smoking allowed, and the last I checked, the balcony is attached to the building.

 

[JimMIA]

I think we have to be sensitive to the fact there are many allergens out there, perfume and smoke are among them. They both can cause life threatening reactions.

I agree with that. As a matter of fact, DW is also sensitive to perfume -- it makes her very stuffy, sneezy, and sometimes gives her bad headaches. Of course, she still wears it every day, but that's another subject!

OTOH, the fact that someone is allergic to some substance is no logical justification for depriving others of the normal use and enjoyment of something they have requested - and been given - out of concern for a medical condition that person has. Just because I have a problem does not give me the right to inflict an unrelated problem on others.

"I'm allergic to perfume" (even if you are severly allergic to perfume) does not translate to "Therefore I can smoke in a non-smoking DVC villa and anyone who is allergic to smoke should just tough it out."

I don't care if you smoke or not -- that's your business as long as you obey the law and have a reasonable amount of consideration for those around you. And a great many smokers do just that. If you are staying in a smoking optional room, then by all means smoke anywhere you choose, including the balcony.

But don't give me a bunch of silliness about smoking only on the balcony of a non-smoking villa because you're so "considerate." And don't use bogus arguments to try to rationalize that behavior.

I'm sorry you didn't get the room you wanted, but take that UP with DVC management -- don't take it OUT on people who have medical issues with smoke.

 

[Dean]

I think we have to be sensitive to the fact there are many allergens out there, perfume and smoke are among them. They both can cause life threatening reactions.

While the health issues of perfumes, cleaning agents, etc may be real, they are not allergic. The difference between that and tobacco smoke (which is also no allergic) is that once the smell it gone, so are most if not all of the issues. In many cases, instantaneously. The same is definitely not true for cig smoke, quite the contrary.

 

[JerJan]

KAYTIEELDR: Hmm... well. how do you decide what area is smoking-optional and what's non-smoking? Do you put the smokers in the sun and the non-smokers in the shade? What about non-smokers who want to tan? Or reverse that, and what do you do about non-smokers who want to be by the pool but NOT in direct sunlight the rest of the time? And what about non-smokers who may have to walk through the smoking section to get where they want to be at a given pool, not by choice but by design?
Now, JerJan - while the first time someone nearby smoked, you moved it was most likely because they were there first? But when you moved to an area where nobody was smoking or had a pack of cigarettes out, or even where there was nobody else nearby, and then someone placed themselves near you and lit up, you had EVERY right to (politely) ask them not to smoke near you - maybe even point out where you'd been sitting before? Since Disney and DVC won't set smoking and non-smoking areas at the pools, why can't Guests and Members respectively do it themselves?

Wow....such SARCASM!!!! No, just a designated smoking area would be nice I don't care where it is, pick a corner....any corner.

Now, JerJan - while the first time someone nearby smoked, you moved it was most likely because they were there first?

No, actually I was there first...I was trying to be an "ADULT" by just moving away.

bpmorley: Although I do find it hard to believe that no matter where you went there was someone smoking.

I find it hard to believe that you find it hard to believe....were you there? No. Why would I make that up?

 

[pb4ugo]

NOPE....it's such a bad habit that this discussion has now been regulated to the back alley of the DisBoards!

seems to me that it has just been put in a 'designated' area!

 

[geekgirl]

So my 4 y/o daughter, who has asthma, should be denied the use of her balcony (which is an integral part of her non-smoking medical necessity room, and her favorite play area) so that you can smoke on the balcony of your non-smoking room? Give me a break! Follow the rules.

I don't smoke - never did. Just the way I see things.

 

[kritter]

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimMIA


So my 4 y/o daughter, who has asthma, should be denied the use of her balcony (which is an integral part of her non-smoking medical necessity room, and her favorite play area) so that you can smoke on the balcony of your non-smoking room? Give me a break! Follow the rules.


I totally agree with you!!!!!!

 

[DVCconvert]

Originally Posted by geekgirl:
I am serverly allergic to perfumes. Being in an airplane with someone wearing lots of perfume is absolutely unbearable for me--congestion, headache, thoat constriction, general cold symptoms. But alas, I deal with it because who am I to deny their right to wear perfume. Granted my allergy isn't life threatening, but it does impact how i feel and my symptoms.


JimMIA Quote:
So my 4 y/o daughter, who has asthma, should be denied the use of her balcony (which is an integral part of her non-smoking medical necessity room, and her favorite play area) so that you can smoke on the balcony of your non-smoking room? Give me a break! Follow the rules.




JimMIA Quote:
No, just at her use of the terrible affliction with perfume being being compared with the effects of smoking.

====> Jim,
Perfumes (and cleaning agents) can trigger asthma attacks. Other folks who may not be diagonised with "asthma" can experience a bodily reaction to those external agents that effects them very much like an 'asthma attack' (metabolically).
So please enlighten me as to your position -- if the 'effects of smoking' you're concerned about in geekgirl's post is respitorary distress...how is it different or how can we collectively say it's different for one person to export "harm" to another by smoking exporting from their location vs. another agent exporting from their location? Should dynamite be outlawed but guns are ok?

Dispite what some might believe, I'm not trying to be aurgumentative...rather I'm trying to understand how some can demonize one 'agent' that effects some, but may or may not demonize another 'agent' that essentially has the same effect upon some.

 

[JimMIA]

====> Jim,
Perfumes (and cleaning agents) can trigger asthma attacks. Other folks who may not be diagonised with "asthma" can experience a bodily reaction to those external agents that effects them very much like an 'asthma attack' (metabolically).

Obviously, neither of us is a doctor -- we both thought geekgirl and my DD's reactions were allergic, which I guess they're not. So I'll let the doctors among us debate what triggers what, and how serious one incident might be compared to the other.

So please enlighten me as to your position -- if the 'effects of smoking' you're concerned about in geekgirl's post is respitorary distress...how is it different or how can we collectively say it's different for one person to export "harm" to another by smoking exporting from their location vs. another agent exporting from their location?

I think Dean already answered that. The effects of the substances you're talking about are transitory. The effects go away as soon as the odor goes away. That's not true of cigarette smoke.

The other major difference is that the two situations are not at all analogous. It is legal to wear perfume on an airplane. It is illegal in Florida to smoke in a place designated as non-smoking. It is also a violation of Disney polcies governing the use of their rooms - policies which have been put in place not only for the enjoyment of Disney's guests, but in many cases for their medical protection. If you go back and look at some of prez65's posts, you'll find that they always request a non-smoking room - even though prez65 smokes - because they don't want their family exposed to the health hazards of smoking.

The smelly woman on the airplane is just being inconsiderate, and I don't think there are going to be any long term effects of her actions from what Dean posted.

Should dynamite be outlawed but guns are ok?

Uh...yes. Actually, it is a federal crime to possess dynamite without a license. Most guns are legal to own just about everywhere in the United States.

Dispite what some might believe, I'm not trying to be aurgumentative...rather I'm trying to understand how some can demonize one 'agent' that effects some, but may or may not demonize another 'agent' that essentially has the same effect upon some.

I don't think you are being argumentative at all. We just have different points of view, and you are expressing your opinions in a civil and respectful way. I don't have any problem at all with the manner in which you have put forward your point of view.

I'm not demonizing an "agent." I'm actually not demonizing anything.

I am objecting to one very specific behavior -- smoking on the balcony of a non-smoking DVC villa. As I said above, I don't care if someone smokes, as long as they obey the rules and are considerate of others.
People who smoke on the balconies of non-smoking villas, IMHO, are neither obeying well-known rules, nor are they being considerate.

You may have a different view, and you are certainly entitled to that opinion.

 

[DVCconvert]

Thank you Jim for your thoughtful and kind response.

While we can agree neither of us are doctors- this:

The smelly woman on the airplane is just being inconsiderate

may not simply be inconsiderate if in fact strong volatile compounds (such as perfumes, cleaners) can trigger a harmful or otherwise painfull bodily response to others. Tranistory or not, some may well feel that it violates their right of quiet enjoyment of a public space.

I think Dean already answered that. The effects of the substances you're talking about are transitory. The effects go away as soon as the odor goes away. That's not true of cigarette smoke........the smelly woman....and I don't think there are going to be any long term effects of her actions from what Dean posted.

Is Dean a doctor? I suspect there must be some instances in which 'non-tobacco pollution' does linger (in fabrics, pourous surfaces etc..) and could continue to effect those with sensitivies to such compounds.

It is legal to wear perfume on an airplane.

And it was this point that I (perhaps mistakenly) assumed was the issue geekgirl raised. To those who are effected, absent some regulation, it could/does seriously degrade their health/experience -- just as would if someone smoking where it is not permitted could do the same. This is perhaps a glimpse into the next round of government regulations designed to minimize such issues.

I am objecting to one very specific behavior -- smoking on the balcony of a non-smoking DVC villa. As I said above, I don't care if someone smokes, as long as they obey the rules and are considerate of others.

We are in complete agreement on this.
Again, thank you for your thoughts!

 

[JimMIA]

Is Dean a doctor?

I think so, yes. That's why I quoted him. I could be wrong...it happens often.

 

[pb4ugo]

as a new member who has not yet stayed at each of the dvc resorts - i am wondering if any of the resorts provide smoking areas around their property - like there are areas in the parks?

i am familiar with with the bench seating areas in front of the okw villas - is that a posted non-smoking area or can one smoke there because the villas are pretty much sealed on that side of the buildings?

if a guest was to smoke beyond the railing of a 1st floor balcony of a non-smoking villa - would that be against the villa's non-smoking designation?? i know it is splitting hairs, but......would it? the smoke from there could still annoy and threaten the life of a non-smoker, eh?

it is truly a shame that non-smokers [with or without allergies and life threatening conditions] and smokers suffering from true addictions cannot find a tolerance for each other's afflictions.

if a smoker is trying to do a good [not the right] thing by smoking on a non-smoking villa balcony and the non-smoking villa occupant above wants to sit out on their balcony, couldn't the non-smoker just wait a few minutes until the smoker extinguished their cigarette and the smoker then refrain from lighting up for a while? oh, that would probably require the guests to talk to each other; and either might feel that they were giving in rather than standing their ground.

to read thru here, it does rattle me that non-smokers think they have more rights than smokers. why do they not try to negotiate a solution rather than attack and claim smoke-free areas for all when all do not want them? call me a pollyanna, i guess!

don't get me wrong - where smoking is against the rules, that's the last word in my book! but when i drive thru a dvc gate and hear welcome home - i want to know that i can do there what i can do when i am in my nj home. if i choose to smoke at home, i want to smoke at dvc - just provide me a place to do so - otherwise, dvc isn't home. if there aren't enuf smoking villas for those that smoke, then establish some public areas for the smokers.

why is this such an issue? can't we all just get along?

 

[CarolMN]

Is Dean a doctor?

I think so, yes. That's why I quoted him. I could be wrong...it happens often.

Don't let Jim fool you - he's right waaaaaayyy more often than he's wrong, LOL.

FWIW, I recall at least one post in which Dean said that he is a pediatrician.

Best wishes -

 

[JimMIA]

as a new member who has not yet stayed at each of the dvc resorts - i am wondering if any of the resorts provide smoking areas around their property - like there are areas in the parks?

i am familiar with with the bench seating areas in front of the okw villas - is that a posted non-smoking area or can one smoke there because the villas are pretty much sealed on that side of the buildings?

That's a great series of questions that I don't know the answer to. Hopefully, someone will answer them. I would expect the resorts to be less stringent than the theme parks, but I could be wrong.

I do know that MK (and I presume all theme parks) are non-smoking, except in designated areas, but I don't know about the common grounds of DVC resorts.

if a guest was to smoke beyond the railing of a 1st floor balcony of a non-smoking villa - would that be against the villa's non-smoking designation?? i know it is splitting hairs, but......would it?

That's not hair-splitting at all -- it's a perfectly sensible question. Unfortunately the precise correct legal answer to that probably depends on whether the no-smoking prohibition by Disney covers only the dwelling itself, or also the curtilege of the property.

I don't know the precise legal answer to that, but personally, if smoking were permitted in common areas, I would not complain if someone were smoking one inch outside the railing of a first floor balcony. If they were not breaking a rule that I know of, I would assume they were making a conscienteous effort to comply with the rules.

the smoke from there could still annoy and threaten the life of a non-smoker, eh?

Yes. Not could, but would.

However, the question is not whether the smoker is intentionally trying to annoy or kill other people in the area. The question is whether or not the smoker is following rules which have been instituted for the enjoyment and well-being of other guests.

If you are following the rules, it is my obligation to remove myself from the area if I choose, because you are doing what you are permitted to do.

OTOH, if you are violating the rules...you are violating the rules.

it is truly a shame that non-smokers [with or without allergies and life threatening conditions] and smokers suffering from true addictions cannot find a tolerance for each other's afflictions.

That's true, but we're really not talking about tolerance here. We're talking about respecting established laws and regulations. You don't get a pass by claiming intolerance.

if a smoker is trying to do a good [not the right] thing by smoking on a non-smoking villa balcony

Naw...ain't accepting the premise. The smoker is not trying to do a good thing -- least of all for themselves.

The smoker you describe is simply too lazy to relocate to an area where smoking is permitted. It's just a selfish behavior, not a noble behavior.

and the non-smoking villa occupant above wants to sit out on their balcony, couldn't the non-smoker just wait a few minutes until the smoker extinguished their cigarette and the smoker then refrain from lighting up for a while?

Your analogy could lead to some really ugly counter-analogies, but I'll simply say no. That's not what non-smoking villas are all about.

to read thru here, it does rattle me that non-smokers think they have more rights than smokers. why do they not try to negotiate a solution rather than attack and claim smoke-free areas for all when all do not want them?

Non-smokers - or even smokers like prez65 who are concerned about their children's health (if not their own) - are not claiming one single thing except the rights that have been legislated to protect their health. This is a democracy. No one smoker or non-smoker, liberal or conservative, Republican or Democrat, gets veto power over majority decisions they don't like. (Okay, the President and Governor do, but they can be overridden.)

That's what this particular part of THE GREAT SMOKING DEBATE is about -- obeying the law and following the rules. There are other parts to this debate, but this part is about respecting established rules...even if we don't particularly like them.

if there aren't enuf smoking villas for those that smoke, then establish some public areas for the smokers.

Everybody has their own opinions on that. The trend has been toward reducing - or eliminating - the number of smoking-optional accommodations.

*****
And finally...WHY don't Jersey Girls pump gas? Florida men want to know!

 

[prez65]

A couple of things have been raised again....I stayed in a Non Smoking Room at OKW....outside my room was a bench...next to the bench was an ashtray...I would take that as a sign that you can smoke there.....

The bus stops...They have ashtrays...I would take that as a sign that smoking is allowed there....

The front entrance of the check in area has ashtrays outside the door...Again a sign you can smoke there....

Ashtrays also outside of Olivias...Another sign you can smoke...

No ashtrays by the Pool...I take as a sign not to smoke....

Well me personaly...I do not smoke at the bus stops...or outside Olivias..or by the front entrance...Or right outside the door to my room....

I usually look for an out of the way area...and guess what...NO ASHTRAYS...

I do not know how far a Smoking room is from a non-smoking room...I guess they have whole buildings set up as smoking room buildings?

So I guess DVC resorts do not have a no-smoking policy anywhere outside of the non-smoking rooms and of course inside the lobby and olivias or other restaurants..But most of the resorts I have been to have ashtrays all over the place....And not once have I seen a no smoking sign...

So the only law that would be broken by a smoker is smoking in a non smoking room...I think the Balconies are an iffy situation..they are outside...but they are attached to the building.....so hop the rail or lean over and I guess it would be OK to smoke.

It comes down to being considerate....I try very hard not to smoke in front of other people.

 

[DVCconvert]

And finally...WHY don't Jersey Girls pump gas? Florida men want to know!

My guess would be they don't want to inhale some of the really nasty stuff that is found in gasoline