For those of you that are landlords - questions

[DebMcDonald]

We own a rental property in another state and our tenants have just moved out. They gave us a $950 security deposit when they moved in. We do not have a written formal lease with them regarding any specifics of the security deposit, but the house was filthy, lots of dog hair, left a large desk behind, kitchen faucet had a leak that ruined the countertop, gutters were never cleaned. When they rent, they realize that they are to treat this house as if it were their own, meaning they are responsible for all the yard work, etc. These people just mowed the lawn. Now my question, how much would you hold back for the dirty house. I was thinking of holding back $200 for cleaning, and another $50 for removal of the desk. They had told us that when they moved out on the 16th the cleaners would be in to clean it......

I'm not trying to be a PITA, but I also don't feel I should have had to clean up after them.

 

[java]

I'm confused. When we were landlords- UPKEEP was our responsibility not the tenants. Unless it was Specifically spelled out in a lease- as in they must weed or cut back bushes. Normally I would think mowing would be standard- anything else has to be spelled out. Point of renting is it is NOT your house, and that responsibility lies with someone else - unless it is in the contract.

And you don't have it in writing. Personally I would freecycle the desk- stick it out on the curb someone will take it. To get "paid" for the cleaning you would actually have to hire people to clean it- then get a receipt so you could "prove" your damages if need be in a court. ($200 sounds about right but you would need a RECEIPT that it cost you $200 to clean it in order to keep the $$)

Have they asked for the money back? Or are they in a wait and see mode?
Thankfully we never had huge cleaning issues and I let it slide the one time that I had to hire someone.
But do what you think is best. You have to be made WHOLE again- in other words the place should be in the same condition- minus normal wear and tear- as when they rented.

 

[Todd&Copper]

Hire Molly Maids or some other house cleaning service and withhold that amount from the SD and return the rest.

[And until I owned a house myself, if a LL told me that the yard was my responsibility as a renter, I would have innocently assumed they meant mowing the lawn only. I would not have trimmed hedges or cleaned gutters.]

 

[Cruise]

As the others have said, hire someone to clean it and keep that money out. I think you're out of luck on the countertop - that will be a repair you'll have to pocket. Same for cleaning the gutters.

And, please, please, please get a written lease with your next tenants. You can find simple ones online to download and can then modify it to suit your needs. Have them initial every page and sign the last. Anyone you'd want to rent to will be willing to sign a lease and it covers you in case of the "what ifs."

 

[Tinker'n'Fun]

If it is not specifically stated the apartment only has to be "broom" swept to be considered clean....

 

[mjhd]

If you want to do the cleaning yourself, just get an estimate first from a cleaning service & pictures - that should be enough if you end up in court. I cannot stress enough how important it is to get EVERYTHING in writing. Good luck!

 

[Kathi OD]

We expect our rental properties to be clean and empty when tenants end their leases. However, clean is a relative term and what is clean to me is definitely much different than what most of our tenants thought. However, since you should be cleaning between tenants anyway, we only charge if the property is left extremely dirty. Wear, tear, and dirt are normal when people are using a property on a daily basis and you should expect some level of deterioration.

As others have already stated, if needed, get a cleaning company to do the work and make sure you get a receipt. Mowing the lawn should be the only maintenance that a tenant should be expected to do unless it is spelled out in writing in the lease. Cleaning the gutters and trimming bushes is considered maintenance and, much like painting, is your responsibility.

However, while the leak in the kitchen is your responsibility to fix, it is the tenants' responsiblity to report the leak so it can be fixed. If they didn't report it, they can be held responsible for the repairs incurred, BUT get someone to do it and get a receipt.

I hope that the next time you decide to rent, you make sure to have a written lease stating what is expected, allowed, and not allowed by tenants.

When tenants leave our properties we always give them a list that states the deductions to their security deposit, along with copies of the receipts that shows we actually paid for the service or if we do the work ourselves, a breakdown of the number of hours that it took us to do the job with a "fair value" cost per hour listed.

ETA: We also charge for changing locks if the tenant doesn't return the keys on the day they move out. This is spelled out in the lease they sign when they take possession of the property.

 

[2manygirls]

Make sure to take pictures of everything before cleaning. The sink cost would come out of their pocket if they did not report it. Also next time try doing a inspection(scheduled with the tennant) every 3-6 months. And of course next time get everything in writting.

 

[bumbershoot]

Renting a house means I do NOT have to do all that work like cleaning gutters and fixing leaks.

Our landlord LOVES us (we were tenants at the complex she managed for almost 3 years, then moved into a townhouse she owned, moved out for a year, and she called us to offer us a fabulous condo which we are now living in) b/c we report things immediately, knowing she will have it fixed. I know that other tenants aren't as on top of things, so they would do things like let YOUR kitchen faucet's leak get so bad it damaged the counter top.

So next tenant, spell it out. You want them to report things like that ASAP so you can have it fixed, and make sure you get it fixed!

Cleaning gutters? Bwa ha ha. If my landlady had expected that of us, we would have moved along. Cleaning gutters goes with OWNING a house. Renting means you pay a bit more per month, usually, than the mortgage, and the OWNER does the OWNER's work.

Our landlady, when we rented her townhouse, even had a service come out to take care of the lawn and bushes. It was most excellent. It was a service she used on her own home (same city) and on another property she owned, so adding one more stop wasn't a big deal to them. Offering something like that gives you an excellent opportunity to raise the rent a bit more than what you're going to pay the lawn guys.

I clean like crazy when we move out, ugh, except for when it was all ruined by my then almost 2 year old when moving from the complex. I was vacuuming and cleaning in the room where my cat spent most of her time, and left the room for a moment. DS came in and dumped a whole thing of Comet cleanser in the room, I tried to vacuum it and it broke my vacuum, and I just gave up and paid what she charged us for that room. Other than that and a sneaky landlord who charged me for a window that was broken when I moved in, and charged the next tenant for the same window that he had charged me for (she and I were friends and I asked her about it when she moved out...I had TOLD her to make sure the window was fixed, but she didn't get around to it), I have ALWAYS gotten my cleaning/security deposits back.

But I've also always had a very firm lease that spelled things out. Woudln't have it any other way. Since you didn't, I think you'd best just do the cleaning in whatever way you normally do it, charge for that, and toss the desk, and send the rest of that money back to them.


Oh, and a really good idea from our apartment that we stayed in the year between renting from our beloved landlady was that part of the deposit was NONrefundable. That was the cleaning fee, basically. Anything that they were charged, by their cleaning service, OVER that, was charged to us. And they had a long list of charges for each thing that needed to be fixed or done, including removing trash from the apartment (desk). Very good idea. Though we left their place so clean that they overlooked a couple tiny things that had happened over the year.

 

[fkj2]

I'm with the others. Document any discussions (while you can still recall them) as well as photograph the house as it was when the renters vacated. Call a cleaning service and let them clean the house, then deduct the amount from the security deposit. If the sink damage occurred as a result of their actions or not reporting it, I'd deduct that as well.

I had to take someone--a friend no less--to Small Claims Court and learned quite a lesson. If she hadn't obliged me by writing a list of everything she owed me, I'd have taken a bigger financial beating than I did, because she acknowledged expenses like the electric bill, which I hadn't had transferred to her name. All those services should go into the renter's name. I watched as one owner ate the bills because his renters had convinced him to leave them in his name; they had such bad credit, the utility companies wouldn't turn them on for them.

Go with a written lease that specifies everything, even if you think you'll never need it.

 

[2Kds2K9]

The BIG LESSON I just learned is that you have 30 days to notify the renter in writing and via certified mail, that you are keeping a portion of the security deposit. That was the law in Florida. Then you can go ahead and make the necessary repairs or do any cleaning.

Go on-line and see what the laws are in the state the rental is in and see what your rights are and what the rights are of the renter.

I hope that next time you rent, you get EVERYTHING in writing.

Good luck,
Leigh

 

[OceanAnnie]

Cleaning the house and damage they caused is their responsibility. I would call and get phone estimates for cleaning services. Either hire one or use their estimates as a guide for how much to charge the prior tenants. As for the damage, research the cost to replace the counter. Itemize a bill, detailing what the costs include (ex. counter replacement and labor).

Send them a bill for the balance. Deduct the deposit and give them the total for what they owe after the deduction. Also give them a due date for the balance. Send it return receipt.

Good luck! I had some doozies too.

 

[thomas998]

I think you are heading to a nasty court battle that you will likely lose if you keep any of their money...

1. I hope you had a seperate account where the $950 was kept seperate from your own money... some places are a real stickler about making sure you keep everything seperate... Also some states will require you pay them back the interest collected on the money unless the lease has some other specific terms concerning the interest generated on the money.

2. A security deposit is intended to pay you back for damages inflicted on the propety by them. It isn't supposed to cover normal wear and tear on the property.

3. You were responsible for the leak, they would only have to say they told you about it and you failed to fix it.. now it becomes your word against their word.... no win situtation.

4. The cleaning issue is very touchy... no one is going to expect the house to be spotless... You would possibily hold out some money for cleaning but it should likely only be the amount above and beyond a normal cleaning bill... such as MerryMaids or however would normally charge $200 to clean the house but it was extra dirty so they charged $300, then you might expect to get away with taking $100 from the security deposit.

In the end, you have to pick your battles carefully. fighting a lawsuit could easily cost more than $1000 and you could end up losing which would bring a much higher cost. I would say, cut your loses and learn to be very specific and careful next time. I have a house in an area where the trash service isn't part of the water bill its something every house has to find on its own... I quickly realized after a renter left a back yard full of garbage that they decided was a personal landfill, that trash service should be bought by me and the cost just recovered in slightly higher rent. I've even toyed with the idea of hiring a lawn service to oversee the lawn and again just pass the cost on in higher rent so I don't have any issue with the lawn being neglected. Sadly you can't tell the quality of the renter from how they look.

 

[gaelic grace]

I have to agree with alot of the posters. It's rare to find someone who will treat the house as their own and if you find one of those you have to what you can to keep them. My parents had rental properties in Florida and alot of it had to do with how long the people were tenants. After a certain period of time carpet, repainting etc., was considered to be fair use. If they left after 3 or 4 months and their was damage you could hold back part of the deposit but even then it was pro-rated. We spent many a fall and summer weekend working in the rental properties yards. Other than lawn mowing the rest was our upkeep. We kept bushes and trees trimmed etc., ( we were cheaper than a lawn care service!) This also helped my parents keep an eye on things. My dad would stop by to change air filters etc., so he could do maintenance but also keep an eye on things.

 

[idofabric]

Having rented, and now as a landlord, and also having lived in Military housing,( the WORST to clean, and the worst for condition...), I have learned the following...after 36 moves....
As a tentant, I take lot of photos of the condition when I move in, and notes about EVERY thing. State/condition of floors, nicks, scratches, age and condition of appliances... any window treatment, how clean... you get the idea.
As a landlord, I have a Property manager for the unit in California. We have had it for 23 years, and as the US Navy moved us a lot, we could not manage it ourselfs. They take care of any and all problems, for a % of the rent. It is tax ded. for us. Works very well, and they check the conditon of everything and take care of the leaks in the middle of the night and stuff.
As a new landlord with a house upstate from us, about 110 miles away, we are going to have a written rental agreement. And that is renting to our oldest son, his GF, and 2 of their friends. It will be in writing, amount of rent, when due, late costs. EVERYTHING. They were told up front that they needed to keep the yard mowed, trimed, and neat. The house CLEAN, and all that. I have a key, and I will be going up to check... No, not really. More like to take food and stuff to them. The reason we will have the written agreement is for protection for all of us and for insurance reasons.
My DH was the housing officer for the USN at one of the bases we lived in and we had inspections for moving in , and moving out. They were required to get at least 2 estamites, and usuall 3-5 est. for the cost of the work. And when we moved out it WAS a white glove inspection the first dozen years. The last base we were in housing they had a company that came in and sprayed down the walls with cleaner, painted it all and then presure washed the floor, no carpet, of course, just cheap tile. And this was senior officer houseing... They even sprayed the kitchen cabinets down with water.
So in the future, get a written agreement. Take photos of the condition, and then give a copy to the renters, and let them know you have a copy. All of you sign the copy you keep, and the copy they keep. Thank goodness for cheap photo printers! And make lots, and lots of notes!
Good luck!

 

[Tinkerbelle99]

You have gotten some pretty sage advice so far. As a Realtor who handles plenty of lease transactions and also a Landlord, I can not stress enough how important a contract is. Especially when your 'friendly' or related to your would-be tentants.

A good lease contact keeps both the landlord and tenant honest. Our lease spells everything out. What is expected in terms of maintaince and up keep. what utilies are our responsibility, what are theres. (in our case we pay the water only). we also stipulate they must mow and maintain the landscaping,(including snow and ice removal) however we treat the lawn ourselves (fertilize, etc.) and we have stipulated the automatic sprinklers be used to keep the lawn up. if issues arise that they are not keeping up yard as notated, we will have it done and they will be billed accordingly. again its all spelled out.

we even has a clause to stop by and check on the interior workings of the house, with proper notice of course. we have also stated that damages caused my misuse or neglect will be their full responsibility.

I always encourage pre-lease walkthru's. i have the tenants go thru the house listing and photographing any and all possible issues. I had my tenants do the same. I even give a 7 day after move-in grace period to report anything additional. we get it all down and both parties sign it. that way when the lease is up, i am not charging them for a loose molding that we both signed off on a year ago.

 

[msmayor]

You have gotten some pretty sage advice so far. As a Realtor who handles plenty of lease transactions and also a Landlord, I can not stress enough how important a contract is. Especially when your 'friendly' or related to your would-be tentants.

A good lease contact keeps both the landlord and tenant honest. Our lease spells everything out. What is expected in terms of maintaince and up keep. what utilies are our responsibility, what are theres. (in our case we pay the water only). we also stipulate they must mow and maintain the landscaping,(including snow and ice removal) however we treat the lawn ourselves (fertilize, etc.) and we have stipulated the automatic sprinklers be used to keep the lawn up. if issues arise that they are not keeping up yard as notated, we will have it done and they will be billed accordingly. again its all spelled out.

we even has a clause to stop by and check on the interior workings of the house, with proper notice of course. we have also stated that damages caused my misuse or neglect will be their full responsibility.

I always encourage pre-lease walkthru's. i have the tenants go thru the house listing and photographing any and all possible issues. I had my tenants do the same. I even give a 7 day after move-in grace period to report anything additional. we get it all down and both parties sign it. that way when the lease is up, i am not charging them for a loose molding that we both signed off on a year ago.

Except this 'contract' won't be worth the paper its printed on if the apartment/space being rented is illegal.

The courts will not enforce an illegal contract.

 

[DVC Sadie]

You have gotten some pretty sage advice so far. As a Realtor who handles plenty of lease transactions and also a Landlord, I can not stress enough how important a contract is. Especially when your 'friendly' or related to your would-be tentants.

A good lease contact keeps both the landlord and tenant honest. Our lease spells everything out. What is expected in terms of maintaince and up keep. what utilies are our responsibility, what are theres. (in our case we pay the water only). we also stipulate they must mow and maintain the landscaping,(including snow and ice removal) however we treat the lawn ourselves (fertilize, etc.) and we have stipulated the automatic sprinklers be used to keep the lawn up. if issues arise that they are not keeping up yard as notated, we will have it done and they will be billed accordingly. again its all spelled out.

we even has a clause to stop by and check on the interior workings of the house, with proper notice of course. we have also stated that damages caused my misuse or neglect will be their full responsibility.

I always encourage pre-lease walkthru's. i have the tenants go thru the house listing and photographing any and all possible issues. I had my tenants do the same. I even give a 7 day after move-in grace period to report anything additional. we get it all down and both parties sign it. that way when the lease is up, i am not charging them for a loose molding that we both signed off on a year ago.

Our rental properties have the same kind of contract as you posted and we have not had any problems with any tenants when we did have to keep part of the security deposit.

 

[4Seasons]

What you can actually keep will depend on your state laws and what you have in writing. After being landlords for 20+ years, it still amazes me what some people's definition of "clean" really is! Which is difficult for me being the neat-freak I am, it's taken a long time to "overlook" some things.

Here in MD we have to keep the security deposit in a separate account and credit the tenant 4% interest (annually) on it. Deposit must be returned within 45 days of move-out, along with a list of itemized charges of anything we keep. For cleaning, in order to keep a substantial amount we would have to hire a cleaning firm. Otherwise we can only charge for the supplies and not our time. Damage is a fine line, and if you don't have any proof something wasn't damaged before they moved in, you may not get anything if you went to court. Speaking of court, you will have fees to file, not to mention time off work. Something you need to consider as well.
Maintenance - we do all "heavy" maintenance (gutters, bushes, painting, etc.) and tenants are expected (per their lease) to do things such as grass mowing, leaf removal, snow removal, etc.

Most important thing...........have EVERYTHING in writing. Spell out in your lease what your responsibilities are and what their's are. Take pictures of the entire property inside and out before your next tenant moves in (to substantiate move-in condition). Have an addendum to your lease, a "move in - move out" check list. Ours has a section for each room of the property (plus outside), and when we hand over the keys we meet the tenant at the property, fill it out and have them sign it.
They are also supplied a "move out procedure" sheet with their copies of the document, detailing what must be done by them upon vacating the property. One copy is signed by them as acknowledgement of receipt and kept by us.

It sounds like alot but this is the result of several instances similar to yours where we got left "holding the bag" because it wasn't in writing. Live and learn I guess

Moral of the story....never "assume" anything, and never leave a gray area open for misinterpretation.

Other than cleaning supplies you might want to chalk it up to a hard lesson learned.

 

[AuroraBeauty]

If you do not have a written lease then the tenancy may be governed by the Landlord/Tenant Act for your state. Usually it is a state statute the tells you what you as a Landlord can do within the bounds of the law. Tenants are required to do some things too but if you just start making your own decisions and they are in violation of the state Landlord/Tenant Act you may end up in court.

Most state statutes are available free online.

Hope this helps.