For the First Time in Forever... I Did Not Enjoy My Vacation to Disney World

[JETS70]

When did we become a society that couldn't wait. I waited on line for things all weekend this trip. The parks were actually crowded due to the runDisney event as well as Jersey week so it wasn't like this weekend was super low crowds. We went with old old school mentality and if we had to wait, we waited! No biggie. We had snacks in our backpacks and brought extra batteries so we could keep electronics charged. Also we talked with the our friend and had a great time. The waits for attraction actually made memories for us that we wouldn't have if we were just zipping from attraction to attraction. I got to know my fiance's best friend on a level I didn't know him before simply from waiting in lines.

I have to second your post. We just spent Nov. 4 through the 15th at WDW at the Fort and had a great time. I understand that some folks want to make the very most out of their vacation. If stress is truly a factor in not making your vacation "magical" .........then how better to relieve some of that stress than by pre planning using MDE and planning your fast passes and those dining experiences that you want. The amount of time you are given to plan should give you ample time to research those things that are a must do for your trip. Once they are planned then you don't have to worry about getting to ride that really popular ride or eat at that really popular restaurant. We have been visiting Disney since way before magic bands and we used to think that was great. Remember, even then you were under time constraints as to your fast passes and when you could get your next one. There were times that my family was disappointed because we didn't get a fast pass to a ride they wanted. We now plan our fast passes for the things we want to do most and for the other attractions we just wait. Like wilkeliza stated, we carry a backpack with battery backups, snacks and a thermos full of ice water. We text pics to friends and even each other. We take selfies while waiting in line......some are even blackmail material. We talk to each other and sometimes just stand quietly and take it all in. I can honestly say that we have never had an issue with magic bands but know that is not true with everyone but I also understand with all things new......there will always be those glitches that need to be worked out. It seems as though Disney is doing a pretty good job of addressing those issues. IMHO

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I have to second your post. We just spent Nov. 4 through the 15th at WDW at the Fort and had a great time. I understand that some folks want to make the very most out of their vacation. If stress is truly a factor in not making your vacation "magical" .........then how better to relieve some of that stress than by pre planning using MDE and planning your fast passes and those dining experiences that you want. The amount of time you are given to plan should give you ample time to research those things that are a must do for your trip. Once they are planned then you don't have to worry about getting to ride that really popular ride or eat at that really popular restaurant. We have been visiting Disney since way before magic bands and we used to think that was great. Remember, even then you were under time constraints as to your fast passes and when you could get your next one. There were times that my family was disappointed because we didn't get a fast pass to a ride they wanted. We now plan our fast passes for the things we want to do most and for the other attractions we just wait. Like wilkeliza stated, we carry a backpack with battery backups, snacks and a thermos full of ice water. We text pics to friends and even each other. We take selfies while waiting in line......some are even blackmail material. We talk to each other and sometimes just stand quietly and take it all in. I can honestly say that we have never had an issue with magic bands but know that is not true with everyone but I also understand with all things new......there will always be those glitches that need to be worked out. It seems as though Disney is doing a pretty good job of addressing those issues. IMHO

For me...the lines mean more than just a nuisance/lack of patience.

If Disney wishes to massively increase attendance and build timeshares to fuel it...which they do...

And if they wish to charge more systematically to do it...which they do...

Then the increase is lines to
Me means that the experience will be less for everyone at a higher price.

So if i say...I don't like the status of lines...that's where it ends up.

 

[Josh Hendy]

I got married in Epcot that week...

And after seeing it last year i won't be going back. The ship has sailed.

The atmosphere that made me choose that in the first place is likely gone forever

B - B - B - But -

The spreadsheet says that if X people visit a theme park and spend Y dollars, then if you can get X*2 people to visit the same park they'll spend Y*2 dollars. Right? That's a mathematical fact! Go ahead and plug the numbers into Excel if you don't believe me.

And if people spent X minutes per day on rides and Y minutes per day shopping, then if you reduce the number of ride minutes with a ratio of X*.8, they will spend Y + (X - X*.8) minutes shopping. Obviously.

The law of diminishing returns is a subjective, theoretical concept. The spreadsheet can't handle it. The ship cannot possibly have sailed. Unless you mean, "sailed to even more profits!"

 

[Josh Hendy]

2. Do i think that the consumer is perhaps his own worst enemy these last few years...yeah, probably.

It's true IMHO that people are kind of their own enemies ... but there is a "sort of" logic behind people spending ridiculous amounts of money on things which aren't really a good value. The logic is, that money loses value the longer you hold onto it. Through the magic of inflation. Thriftiness doesn't pay. Because your invested savings will probably lose (real) value instead of growing in value or holding their own. Even if you're lucky and they grow a lot, you'll get whacked with taxes and benefit clawbacks of all kinds. But "spendthriftiness" means that you get to go to Disney World. Right now, this year. Yay!

As for whether recessions are desirable ... in a way, yes. Inflation and its corrosive effects can only be corrected by a recession, or by what is sometimes called a deflationary depression. Which means that garbage investments in unprofitable, impractical and undesirable things lose their value ... causing very great pain for the people employed and invested in those things. Nobody wants the pain and many people don't deserve it, but you simply cannot rediscover the actual, long-term value of anything until the idiots and crooks stop moving around the goalposts and distorting the value of everything. Like houses ... cars ... electricity ... health care ... vacations ...

 

[lockedoutlogic]

B - B - B - But -

The spreadsheet says that if X people visit a theme park and spend Y dollars, then if you can get X*2 people to visit the same park they'll spend Y*2 dollars. Right? That's a mathematical fact! Go ahead and plug the numbers into Excel if you don't believe me.

And if people spent X minutes per day on rides and Y minutes per day shopping, then if you reduce the number of ride minutes with a ratio of X*.8, they will spend Y + (X - X*.8) minutes shopping. Obviously.

The law of diminishing returns is a subjective, theoretical concept. The spreadsheet can't handle it. The ship cannot possibly have sailed. Unless you mean, "sailed to even more profits!"

I don't know what any of your "fancy computin' figures" mean...

All I know is that I've been up for 40 hours straight...
Because there was no way I could sleep after I was told that me describing my change of opinion on my experience in a week in November...that I actually experienced...and only I experienced...

Was actually a front for an evil agenda...by me, unbeknownst to me...of anti- human decency, anti American, anti capitalist, anti freedom, and just pure vile against a good, fun loving, charitable, non profit corporation of future angels known as Disney...

How could I have NOT seen it?

 

[JETS70]

I have read many of the posts to this thread and I have to admit......... it gave me a headache. I have read about recessions, diminishing returns, America, its workers, Africa and on and on and on. To me it all comes down to this...... Disney, whether your talking about the board of directors, stockholders, cast members or as someone called him.....king Iger, they have as much right to make their company as profitable as it can be just like any small business owner in America. What it boils down to is that Disney reacts to the consumer. If the consumer is buying...... Disney is selling. Do you blame them? Wouldn't you do the same? A good example is Pop Century. The downturn in the economy around 2000 and then 9/11 caused Disney to put the construction of the Legendary Years on hold. As the economy started to recover and through market research, the game plan changed and Disney decided to create family suites to accommodate larger families. Of course the suites demanded higher rates. Whether you like it or not....... it is good business.
Not trying to sound cold or hard...... if you can't afford Disney or you do not like the longer lines created by the increase in attendance, then you need to change plans or adapt. My family loves the Disney experience but honestly the prices for room accommodations are more than I want to spend so now we camp. Much more affordable and the Fort is an experience in itself. If my friends over in the camping forum knew I was out sharing our secret they would tar and feather me.

 

[minnie-apple-mouse]

I don't know what any of your "fancy computin' figures" mean...

All I know is that I've been up for 40 hours straight...
Because there was no way I could sleep after I was told that me describing my change of opinion on my experience in a week in November...that I actually experienced...and only I experienced...

Was actually a front for an evil agenda...by me, unbeknownst to me...of anti- human decency, anti American, anti capitalist, anti freedom, and just pure vile against a good, fun loving, charitable, non profit corporation of future angels known as Disney...

How could I have NOT seen it?

It was probably from admitting you want everyone else to suffer financially so you can have a better week at WDW in November.

 

[Planogirl]

I don't know what any of your "fancy computin' figures" mean...

All I know is that I've been up for 40 hours straight...
Because there was no way I could sleep after I was told that me describing my change of opinion on my experience in a week in November...that I actually experienced...and only I experienced...

Was actually a front for an evil agenda...by me, unbeknownst to me...of anti- human decency, anti American, anti capitalist, anti freedom, and just pure vile against a good, fun loving, charitable, non profit corporation of future angels known as Disney...

How could I have NOT seen it?

You weren't wrong IMO. But people often see what they want to see which doesn't necessarily make them wrong either. It's a complicated topic.

 

[Planogirl]

I have read many of the posts to this thread and I have to admit......... it gave me a headache. I have read about recessions, diminishing returns, America, its workers, Africa and on and on and on. To me it all comes down to this...... Disney, whether your talking about the board of directors, stockholders, cast members or as someone called him.....king Iger, they have as much right to make their company as profitable as it can be just like any small business owner in America. What it boils down to is that Disney reacts to the consumer. If the consumer is buying...... Disney is selling. Do you blame them? Wouldn't you do the same? A good example is Pop Century. The downturn in the economy around 2000 and then 9/11 caused Disney to put the construction of the Legendary Years on hold. As the economy started to recover and through market research, the game plan changed and Disney decided to create family suites to accommodate larger families. Of course the suites demanded higher rates. Whether you like it or not....... it is good business.
Not trying to sound cold or hard...... if you can't afford Disney or you do not like the longer lines created by the increase in attendance, then you need to change plans or adapt. My family loves the Disney experience but honestly the prices for room accommodations are more than I want to spend so now we camp. Much more affordable and the Fort is an experience in itself. If my friends over in the camping forum knew I was out sharing our secret they would tar and feather me.

I don't blame them for overcharging people since I go along with it. I do blame them for what I see as a lesser experience overall though. Is it enough to keep me away? Maybe but before that person says it I will just be replaced by someone else anyway.

As for camping at Fort Wilderness, I just don't know if I would enjoy it. I've thought about the cabins because we really like the atmosphere at the Fort.

 

[yorkieteacher]

I think if you want to experience Disney World without much planning, you need to go during a time with lower attendance, have lower expectations, and not think you can see/do very much
. If I am going anywhere I know I will be spending lots of money, I want to plan and get the most out of it. Disney World is expensive, you can't see it/do it all in even a week, so you need to know what you want to experience the most and when the best times will be to experience those things without a long wait. If you can't go to Disney World but once in your lifetime, plan accordingly, save up funds for a long time, and stay as long as possible. I am a teacher, and I still say keep the kids out of school during early September or early February and go for 7 full days. If you want a spontaneous vacation, or even a relaxing vacation, don't go to Disney!

 

[disneysteve]

I don't blame them for overcharging people

Does charging what people are willing to pay constitute "overcharging"?

I think if you want to experience Disney World without much planning, you need to go during a time with lower attendance, have lower expectations, and not think you can see/do very much.

We go to Disney with virtually no planning. We always have. We probably always will. We've gone in almost every month of the year. We've never had a problem having a great trip and coming home feeling we accomplished everything we wanted to do. On our last trip earlier this month, we made no ADRs. We made no FPs in advance. All we did was book our offsite stay and buy our tickets. That's it. We're going back in January and will do pretty much the same thing although we might possibly line up a few FPs in advance if I'm in the mood.

 

[Josh Hendy]

Does charging what people are willing to pay constitute "overcharging"?

Only if the customers felt, at the end of their vacation, that they were deceived or in some way didn't get what was promised or what they were led to expect. Which is entirely subjective.

When I have chatted with acquaintances about Disney vacations in the past 20 years, it was very common for them to complain that it was too crowded, or too expensive for what you get. That was never my complaint because I was always well organized and armed with a touring plan based on the latest Unofficial Guide. I knew how to use FP-, etc. and always got good value for my money.

But it's inescapably true IMHO that many families in the past 20 years or so were quite disappointed with the cost/benefit of a WDW vacation, and these people form the large group of "one and done" families. I don't know what the percentage is, but it's a significant minority at the very least.

And many people are reporting now that "it is absolutely crazy busy and this used to be a slow time of year". Or, "I could barely move around because of the crowds". And the cost of a WDW vacation is higher relative to the average Joe's take-home pay.

I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that an even larger percentage of families visiting WDW in the last year or two would tell you afterwards that they feel they were overcharged. Subjectively.

 

[wallrock]

Only if the customers felt, at the end of their vacation, that they were deceived or in some way didn't get what was promised or what they were led to expect. Which is entirely subjective.

When I have chatted with acquaintances about Disney vacations in the past 20 years, it was very common for them to complain that it was too crowded, or too expensive for what you get. That was never my complaint because I was always well organized and armed with a touring plan based on the latest Unofficial Guide. I knew how to use FP-, etc. and always got good value for my money.

But it's inescapably true IMHO that many families in the past 20 years or so were quite disappointed with the cost/benefit of a WDW vacation, and these people form the large group of "one and done" families. I don't know what the percentage is, but it's a significant minority at the very least.

And many people are reporting now that "it is absolutely crazy busy and this used to be a slow time of year". Or, "I could barely move around because of the crowds". And the cost of a WDW vacation is higher relative to the average Joe's take-home pay.

I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that an even larger percentage of families visiting WDW in the last year or two would tell you afterwards that they feel they were overcharged. Subjectively.

I agree that it's subjective, but I would further state that Disney has established a benchmark cost for their services - and the amount wouldn't be a factor in this case - and I would expect that benchmark to change based on the service changing. If you add to the service then the cost would or could go up. If, however, you reduce the service - take away attractions/shows/events - then one could realistically expect the cost to go down. Disney operates in just the opposite manner. Cut services and raise prices beyond a realistic increase. Realistic will be subjective here as well, but one can't help but question a price increase for a reduced service. Hollywood Studios should have the price of admission cut substantially based on the amount of 'service' cutting they've done there lately.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

It was probably from admitting you want everyone else to suffer financially so you can have a better week at WDW in November.

Wow...you're right...that's really bad.

I'm really evil...

...second thought....one thing:

Can you explain how a decline in Disney travel - a completely frivolous and unnecessary thing in 99% of the cases (there's an obvious exception) - would constitute "everyone struggling financially"?

 

[Josh Hendy]

Realistic will be subjective here as well, but one can't help but question a price increase for a reduced service. Hollywood Studios should have the price of admission cut substantially based on the amount of 'service' cutting they've done there lately.

In a way ... it is a cut-rate park. In that nearly everyone thinks of MK as being the "main" park that is worth $100 and change ... with a certain minority who think of Epcot as a complete experience especially during F&W and F&G. Many people, possibly the majority, don't think of DHS or DAK being a complete theme park experience, and a lot of people don't think Epcot has all that much outside of festivals.

That's where the discounted multi-day tickets come in. For some time, Disney promoted "four great parks" i.e. four approximately equally fantastic experiences, and they even started out building and evolving Epcot, DHS and DAK that way. If they had kept adding rides like Rock'n'Roller, Tower of T, Everest, then the parks would in a decade or two have become peers with MK in the number and quality of attractions. But the pace slowed and even went retrograde in DHS and Epcot with the closing of some attractions and the neglect of others. So they are arguably, cut-rate parks for cut-rate tickets.

It may be that the numbers don't add up, and it's practically impossible to reproduce the quality and size of MK unless you're getting the equivalent of about $100/day/guest. DHS, DAK and to some degree Epcot are therefore scaled to the $50 to $75 they are actually bringing in as the "not MK" days on the average family's week-long (or so) vacation.

Or ... they cynically decided, hey, we're saps if we build 4 equally great parks and then sell tickets to 2 or 3 of those great parks at half price. We COULD make money via room rentals, DVC sales and souvenir sales if we offered 4 equally great parks at approximately $75/day ... but why bother when the MK and (sometimes) Epcot are such huge draws that people will put up with half-parks for the extra days of their vacation?

I know, I know ... they're spending X gazillion dollars in the next Y years on DHS and DAK ... but these parks will still be light-years behind MK in the number and quality of attractions. They'll be better, they'll get a lot of (deserved) excitement for Avatar, Toy Story, and Star Wars lands ... but unless they keep on adding attractions every couple of years and updating the snoozers, the cut-rate policy will prevail.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Honestly...many of my complaints would be assuaged by a freeze of Hotel rates periodically...maybe every other year...to yield some type of reasonable correlation to inflation...

AND...if they would price parks individually based on offerings.

That's not what is happening...exactly the opposite.

What they do is increase the "Baseline" price once or twice a year...as if all things are equal which they are not...and now are going to quickly begin to modify upwards and only upwards from there.

Tiered pricing roughly translates to "double price increases"...because that is what it will essentially be.

You're standard ticket will be $115 this year...but you're going March 21st so it will be $131.

The next year both numbers will rise and will continue to do so in perpetuity until the consumer "stiffens" a little.

And on and on.

But right now studios doesn't warrant a ticket price of that magnitude.

If they hurry up and fix it...then that complaint will correct itself.

 

[minnie-apple-mouse]

Wow...you're right...that's really bad.

I'm really evil...

...second thought....one thing:

Can you explain how a decline in Disney travel - a completely frivolous and unnecessary thing in 99% of the cases (there's an obvious exception) - would constitute "everyone struggling financially"?

That's the point.

A hard recession would eliminate the frivolous unnecessary things first.

WDW trips would be at the top of that list.

Meaning a much more leisurely trip for you and likely better deals as well.

Oh and evil was your word.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

That's the point.

A hard recession would eliminate the frivolous unnecessary things first.

WDW trips would be at the top of that list.

Meaning a much more leisurely trip for you and likely better deals as well.

Oh and evil was your word.

No question...but we're gonna have to disagree that wdw travel is indicative as to the quality of life in this country or in the planet in a broader context.

And you might want to consider...that I might be a necessary evil...on occasion.

 

[minnie-apple-mouse]

No question...but we're gonna have to disagree that wdw travel is indicative as to the quality of life in this country or in the planet in a broader context.

And you might want to consider...that I might be a necessary evil...on occasion.

Have never said WDW was necessary for quality of life, just saying you want others "actual" quality of "real" life to suffer, JUST so your "frivolous and unessesary " WDW trips can be improved.

 

[Planogirl]

The endless battling on this thread aside, it's true that a recession helps the traveler not affected by the recession. That's just simple logic. I would of course be one that is affected so I can't get excited at the thought. I do know that they are inevitable though.