For people with younger kids: College Planning

[StitchandPooh'sMom]

I'm surprised it isn't a graduation requirement for your dd already.

dd graduated high school in 2013 and even then it was a requirement (1 course), but starting with the graduating class of 2019 (so this year's freshman) the requirement has increased to 2 courses. this may be b/c our state's public and private universities have traditionally required a minimum of 1 for admission while the highly selective are looking for 2-3.

is there any chance your dd could take a community college fine art class over the summer? I know it's not inexpensive in some states but she could get it whacked out in as little as 8 weeks-and in my experience the summer community college classes are smaller and less intensive (added benefit-she doesn't have to report it to her high school so it does not impact her class ranking or gpa).

I'm kind of surprised, too. NC requires a certain number of elective courses, but it means anything that fills out the number of credits needed for graduation once the core requirements (5 English, 4 social studies, 4 math, 3 science, one PE) have been met. They can be anything from CTE to PE to fine arts to AP classes over the core requirements, so AP Bio and AP Chem are considered electives.

South Carolina requires a fine art, and Clemson has made DDs short list. I do know of others from her school who have been accepted without an arts credit, but it would be nice to check all the boxes just in case.

Taking a course at our community college is an excellent idea - thank you very much!

 

[Mrs. Ciz]

I think it depends what they do. I didn't list honors or awards from eighth grade, but maybe if they did a camp that relates to their intended major or if they began volunteering someplace and have stuck with it. DD volunteered at a local camp the summer after eighth and ninth grade. The summer after tenth grade, she was offered a position as a paid counselor. She will work there again this summer and next summer. I have it listed to show that she has consistently volunteered at the same place and also has done a good enough job to not only be invited back but also be offered a paid job.

Things like your DD's camp volunteer/work experience is great because it shows the depth. We were advised that many high ranking schools are more impressed with depth than with breadth of activities.

 

[HopperFan]

Question about starting the resume in middle school.... Do you really put the stuff your child accomplished in middle school on a college application? Do they really care she was her school's student of the year in 7th or 8th grade going into college? The only reason I ask is because I am an 8th grade teacher and had NO IDEA. My daughter just finished 8th grade and is going into HS. If this is true I better get going and go back and log her stuff! I will also be sure to tell my students this is something they might want to keep track of.

Two in college, one is actually in grad school. DD applied to 8 colleges (she was graduating at 16 so we weren't sure how well she would be received - they all accepted her with scholarships) and NONE of the applications wanted anything regarding school/volunteer etc prior to high school years. I would focus on what will show as a well rounded person in high school.

 

[StitchandPooh'sMom]

Things like your DD's camp volunteer/work experience is great because it shows the depth. We were advised that many high ranking schools are more impressed with depth than with breadth of activities.

She was very fortunate to become involved with this camp - it has done wonders for her self-confidence and her ability to move out of her comfort zone. It is a blessing and a bonus that she has a great time with the kids!

 

[flateacher]

Two in college, one is actually in grad school. DD applied to 8 colleges (she was graduating at 16 so we weren't sure how well she would be received - they all accepted her with scholarships) and NONE of the applications wanted anything regarding school/volunteer etc prior to high school years. I would focus on what will show as a well rounded person in high school.

Thanks! I was thinking I had a lot of work to look up the past three years of middle school stuff. I will keep track of the volunteering she does consistently (VBS camp counselor - 3rd year) starting now. I appreciate all of the advice on the thread so far. I will continue to follow even though she is only starting HS this year. A lot of the information is very helpful and should save us a lot of time.

 

[Colleen27]

Question about starting the resume in middle school.... Do you really put the stuff your child accomplished in middle school on a college application? Do they really care she was her school's student of the year in 7th or 8th grade going into college? The only reason I ask is because I am an 8th grade teacher and had NO IDEA. My daughter just finished 8th grade and is going into HS. If this is true I better get going and go back and log her stuff! I will also be sure to tell my students this is something they might want to keep track of.

The stuff I'm concerned with keeping track of is things DD has continued with on into high school, and more from a years of participation/leadership progression standpoint. I'm not worried about documenting honor roll and student awards at all, just those things that I think might be relevant as background/context to her high school achievements. With 4H, there are projects that she got involved with as a middle schooler, then progressed/will progress into leadership with in high school so I want her to have records to refer back to if/when she's putting together the narrative of those activities. Unless an activity is especially impressive or there's a high level of continuity into the high school years, I don't think middle school stuff is usually going to matter. But it can't hurt to have the information on hand in case it does progress.

 

[HopperFan]

Thanks! I was thinking I had a lot of work to look up the past three years of middle school stuff. I will keep track of the volunteering she does consistently (VBS camp counselor - 3rd year) starting now. I appreciate all of the advice on the thread so far. I will continue to follow even though she is only starting HS this year. A lot of the information is very helpful and should save us a lot of time.

Absolutely not too early to begin now and INVOLVE her in everything. My DD began researching colleges her freshman year of high school. Online touring, what degrees they offered, what classes they required, tuition and even demographics (she wanted close to 50/50 male/female), housing etc. We toured 12, and I can't tell you how important it was to visit schools. Being on campus her gut instinct was critical and immediately ruled a third out, and a few after that were backup plans. They will live there for hopefully four years, and may not know anyone. It needs to feel right and you have to feel comfortable.

I also started her (her brother in 7th grade) taking the SAT/ACT and only have results sent to us. Taking the tests made them more and more comfortable for when it really was counting. Both had scores jump considerably that final time.

A major part of our planning was from middle school having them understand the costs involved. They made large poster boards, filling in all components of each college so they could compare what they got for what costs. Since both were planning on graduate school the cost was important. We told them we would totally support all costs involved in their undergrad but not tuition. They could stay in-state with a state scholarship, obtain their own scholarships and could get student loans but we felt that would be last option and they both worked. They did have college funds set up but we told them they should use that for grad school. They completely took ownership of those costs. DS will be graduating this year with his college fund there for grad school. DD graduated with all her fund and it has paid for more than half her grad school (she chose a large name out of state school so her tuition was double) - she was successful and now has two jobs with the college (one as adjunct professor) that will cover the second half of school, all living expenses and leave her with a start to a down payment on a house. Not bad. Once they understood the financial costs to them we feel they made very wise decisions for their future, will both have graduate degrees and no debt.

I know everyone has their own thoughts on paying for college, but our plan worked very well for our kids. No matter your plan in that respect, starting early is a good thing, it really takes much of the anxiety off of it for everyone.

 

[teller80]

I live in the state that ALL other states (and the feds) are looking to regarding tuition costs. we are the first to have legislation passed to mandate DECREASED tuition costs at all publicly funded colleges and universities within our boarders (dd's university has had to decrease over 15% since this was implemented),.

Do you know if the colleges/universities had to decrease their budgets 15%, or is the state supplementing the difference? Did they raise room and board costs more than they used to in order to make up the difference? Or did your taxes go up? I'm just wondering how they reduced their costs 15%, I can't imagine any corporation lowering the cost of their product 15% (can you imagine buying a car for 15% less this year?).

 

[teller80]

@crisi I think this is a great thread, you have very good advice. I really hope people will take notes, but the pessimist side of me says almost nobody will. I work in higher education and I see peoples eyes glaze over when I try to tell them this stuff, it's like they want to bury their head in the sand. Even simple things like "study for the SAT", I get the comment, "oh, you can't study for that, you either know it or you don't". Ugh.

 

[MommaBerd]

@HopperFan - I agree with so much of what you said. I think it's important to start having conversations with your kids around 7th grade about the costs of college - who is responsible for what expenses, or for us, what is the total amount we'll contribute; what factors make a difference in the costs (in-state/out-of-state, public/private, etc.); what are ways to reduce the costs (scholarships, dual enrollment) and so on...

We talk about the "reality of a major." Are you going to have to go to grad school? If yes, what is your plan for that? What is the expected starting salary? Can you live off of that? Or, if you choose an expensive school, what will be your student loan debt compared to your starting salary? By doing this, we are squarely placing the responsibility and consequences of the decision-making on their shoulders. No offense to anyone - and I know there are always I foreseen circumstances- but DH and I do not want kids coming back home after college without a job and up to their eyeballs in debt. And blaming us for not warning them. Don't get me wrong, we want our kids to do what they love, but they need to be focused and have a plan!

I agree that it is so important to start visiting schools in their sophomore year. Not only does it help them rule out some places, it also gives them time to revisit when it comes time to make a decision. And, it helps if he has NO CLUE as to what kind of school he wants to attend.

Finally, since I homeschool, I was my son's Guidance Counselor - I did lots of research into lots of colleges and universities. Don't feel like your kid HAS to go to an in-state school. For example, Ole Miss has a "sliding scale" tuition scholarship, solely based on GPA and SAT/ACT score, and it's pretty generous! And I know other universities have similar programs. Even with our in-state "scholarship" program, Ole Miss was a better choice for DS financially - and fortunately they are one of the only schools in the country that offers a program in what DS wants to study.

 

[havaneselover]

Things like your DD's camp volunteer/work experience is great because it shows the depth. We were advised that many high ranking schools are more impressed with depth than with breadth of activities.

I was told the same by a friend who worked in admissions part time for Duke. And I hope it's true because my DD is a swimmer and if she keeps that up it's tough to be involved in a ton of other activities.

 

[piccolopat]

My DD finished college 7 years ago and so my perspective is a bit different. For many jobs, it really doesn't matter where you go to school. Depending on your child's career goals, talk to them about the pros and cons of spending $X at school A versus $Y at school B. As long as both schools off the programs that they are interested in and have decent programs, the cost differential should be a consideration before choosing which to attend. Local schools which they can commute to will save a tremendous amount of money. In many cases, 4 years of room and board is more than the cost of a really nice car. Make sure they (and you) know what the payments will be on any loans you take out for school. Many of the student loan problems today are for people that took out huge loans at top schools but for degrees that don't lead to high paying jobs. Of course, if their career goal requires a certain level of school (such as engineering), that has to be a priority in your decision making.

For those of you with girls, don't forget that weddings often follow in the years just after college graduation. In our case, it was two years. I cut back my retirement savings for one year (leaving enough to get the company match) and used that to pay for the wedding so I didn't need to take out any loans. The last thing we wanted was wedding loans on top of student loans. We plowed every last bit of extra income into paying off the student loans last year. It feels so good to be debt free (except for our mortgage).

I would also like to emphasize the important of putting your retirement savings ahead of saving for college. There will always be ways to pay for college but if you don't save enough and start early, will your college educated kids want to take you in and support you when your savings run out?

 

[HopperFan]

Things like your DD's camp volunteer/work experience is great because it shows the depth. We were advised that many high ranking schools are more impressed with depth than with breadth of activities.

I was told the same by a friend who worked in admissions part time for Duke. And I hope it's true because my DD is a swimmer and if she keeps that up it's tough to be involved in a ton of other activities.

Very true. Live in an affluent area where parents seem to think "sign up for everything so your resume is strong" but all that tells a college is that you are uncommitted, joiner not doer because there is simply no time for all of it. They aren't dumb. They would much rather get an athlete, even if you are not competing in college, because it shows commitment, hard work and team work. They would rather have that kid who worked for one charity or service group for 6 straight years then one who signed up for 6 different ones. To get the more rounded students they are looking for signs of commitment, dedication and focus. My kids were both varsity (all their HS years) year round athletes. They managed to maintain their community service throughout. Neither joined clubs at school, because there truly was no time. Both were accepted at every college they applied to.

My DD finished college 7 years ago and so my perspective is a bit different. For many jobs, it really doesn't matter where you go to school. Depending on your child's career goals, talk to them about the pros and cons of spending $X at school A versus $Y at school B. As long as both schools off the programs that they are interested in and have decent programs, the cost differential should be a consideration before choosing which to attend. Local schools which they can commute to will save a tremendous amount of money. In many cases, 4 years of room and board is more than the cost of a really nice car. Make sure they (and you) know what the payments will be on any loans you take out for school. Many of the student loan problems today are for people that took out huge loans at top schools but for degrees that don't lead to high paying jobs. Of course, if their career goal requires a certain level of school (such as engineering), that has to be a priority in your decision making.

For those of you with girls, don't forget that weddings often follow in the years just after college graduation. In our case, it was two years. I cut back my retirement savings for one year (leaving enough to get the company match) and used that to pay for the wedding so I didn't need to take out any loans. The last thing we wanted was wedding loans on top of student loans. We plowed every last bit of extra income into paying off the student loans last year. It feels so good to be debt free (except for our mortgage).

I would also like to emphasize the important of putting your retirement savings ahead of saving for college. There will always be ways to pay for college but if you don't save enough and start early, will your college educated kids want to take you in and support you when your savings run out?

#1 ABSOLUTELY. DS actually chose college he loved, could afford and had his degree. It took one year to find out that degree was not for him. A year of specialized classes lost. Just imagine had he gone to an expensive school the money lost. DD narrowed down to out of state private she loved with in state in big city with so much to offer. Even with tons of scholarship money she would still need an extra $10k per year for the private. She decided to go with the in state since the degrees were the same. Guess what, after a couple major changes and finding her passion, she graduated with a degree nothing like the other and still got in to a great grad program. Know so many that chose expensive out of state programs for teaching degree for the fan factor ..... their salaries they were paid for many years will never equal what they paid for one year of college.

#2 Wedding. Told DD she would get the same as my sister and I got .... a set amount of money we could afford to pull out of our everyday savings. We would not take loans, not use credit cards and not touch our retirement for your party. Whatever you decide to spend over that is coming our of your bank account. I chose to have a big fun wedding where we did lots of the work ourselves. My sister decided to spend hers on a dress..... Looking back, I would have had it even smaller and low key. We look around us at family/friends spending tens of thousands on weddings, going into debt ..... and even before they could pay it off the kids are divorced. Hate to be a Debbie Downer but DD will take ownership of her party and at this point ... watching all around her ... she's thinking very small on a beach somewhere. Sister told her kids they will help with college but zero for weddings, she has three.

#3 SHOUT IT TO THE ROOF TOPS. Don't get me wrong, we have contributed to two kids, all housing, fees, books, dining, cars, car insurance and all related expenses, monthly spending money, medical.... and still provided an account large enough for a grad degree depending where they are going. NONE came out of our retirement plans. It came out of saving on the side and banking all Grandparent gifts and cutting back on our lifestyle for now (good practice for retirement).

@HopperFan - I agree with so much of what you said. I think it's important to start having conversations with your kids around 7th grade about the costs of college - who is responsible for what expenses, or for us, what is the total amount we'll contribute; what factors make a difference in the costs (in-state/out-of-state, public/private, etc.); what are ways to reduce the costs (scholarships, dual enrollment) and so on...

We talk about the "reality of a major." Are you going to have to go to grad school? If yes, what is your plan for that? What is the expected starting salary? Can you live off of that? Or, if you choose an expensive school, what will be your student loan debt compared to your starting salary? By doing this, we are squarely placing the responsibility and consequences of the decision-making on their shoulders. No offense to anyone - and I know there are always I foreseen circumstances- but DH and I do not want kids coming back home after college without a job and up to their eyeballs in debt. And blaming us for not warning them. Don't get me wrong, we want our kids to do what they love, but they need to be focused and have a plan!

I agree that it is so important to start visiting schools in their sophomore year. Not only does it help them rule out some places, it also gives them time to revisit when it comes time to make a decision. And, it helps if he has NO CLUE as to what kind of school he wants to attend.

Finally, since I homeschool, I was my son's Guidance Counselor - I did lots of research into lots of colleges and universities. Don't feel like your kid HAS to go to an in-state school. For example, Ole Miss has a "sliding scale" tuition scholarship, solely based on GPA and SAT/ACT score, and it's pretty generous! And I know other universities have similar programs. Even with our in-state "scholarship" program, Ole Miss was a better choice for DS financially - and fortunately they are one of the only schools in the country that offers a program in what DS wants to study.

YES YES. I also want to say NEVER rule out of state or private schools. Depending on state, many offer great incentives to bring in students. Mississippi is great about it, have helped a few navigate that. DD could have gone there for less than our in state school with all the scholarships they offered her. Private schools have lots of foundation money and are much more free to offer that than state schools. They make their own rules. We found that they were less focused on tests scores and more focused on the total student and what they would contribute to their community. Obviously grades and scores mattered but they were guides not requirements for scholarships.

 

[crisi]

The other thing about starting in middle school is that its a resource to pull from for writing essays if you go to a college that wants essays. Its a review for interviews if your school does interviews. Its a place to pull references from. And its good for showing your kid, in those moments of doubt, that "look, you've done things."

Not every middle school basketball player makes the cut in high school. So middle school is a good place to develop the breadth that will turn into the depth.

On private schools, simply be careful about expectations if you can't pay sticker price. "We will have to see what is offered in terms of scholarships and grants." I think too often kids get their hearts set on something where the parents intent is "well, if they offer him a break" and then they don't - or not enough - but you don't want to break your kid's heart. So educating them early on the financial game is a great idea.

 

[crisi]

@crisi I think this is a great thread, you have very good advice. I really hope people will take notes, but the pessimist side of me says almost nobody will. I work in higher education and I see peoples eyes glaze over when I try to tell them this stuff, it's like they want to bury their head in the sand. Even simple things like "study for the SAT", I get the comment, "oh, you can't study for that, you either know it or you don't". Ugh.

Almost nobody is still somebody. And if I can save someone's future accounting major from two years of Calculus, or lower the sticker shock of the EFC when its most stressful, it will be worth it

 

[barkley]

Do you know if the colleges/universities had to decrease their budgets 15%, or is the state supplementing the difference? Did they raise room and board costs more than they used to in order to make up the difference? Or did your taxes go up? I'm just wondering how they reduced their costs 15%, I can't imagine any corporation lowering the cost of their product 15% (can you imagine buying a car for 15% less this year?).

the state did increase it's funding to make up for part of the decrease but since we don't have a state income tax it's not coming from an increase to us (part of the additional funding came from new sales taxes revenue due to the state ending some tax breaks and increasing delinquent tax penalties at the corporate level for some manufacturing industries).

we've not seen fees go up excessively at dd's university-w/the 15% reduction in tuition, fees since the 2014/2015 academic year have only increased at a total rate (between 2014/15 and next years published rates) of 2.3%. room and board? again, our only experience is w/dd's and it's not gone up at a rate higher than in previous school years (5-6% per year which is lower than off campus renters have seen in their annual rent/utility/food costs increase).

the schools are having to look in part to their own budgets-and having to make cost cutting decisions. since dh is an alum from one we KNOW that they've put their fund raising into hyper overdrive (I think we get an email solicitation at least once a week). we have friends who work in admin at some of the institutions and they are seeing some positions that have gone vacant due to resignations or retirements being eliminated w/the duties split up and reassigned to others. the community colleges are looking at decreasing their operational hours and offering more on-line classes.

 

[megster1123]

Help me answer this:

I have 2 kids ages 6 & 4.

We have about 80k on a home equity line of credit as a second loan (one of those 80/10 mortgage deals). (yes, our condo cost like 850k, no it's not a mansion, it's 950 sq feet; yes real estate in New York is ridiculous).

We can save about 30k per year.

Do we pay off the heloc over the next 3 years then move the 30k to college saving, or save for college and leave the 80k balance and pay just interest (assuming better returns in the market) or do both (like 15k to each)

So far I've been saving and have 50k saved. But I've started listening to Dave Ramsey podcasts and he acts like debt is evil and must be eliminated asap. I can't cash out the 50k to pay off the heloc (it's a 529)

We're almost to our Debt Free Scream (done in August!) and I can say, listen to DR, follow the baby steps and it'll pay off. It was counter-intuitive for us at times and really hard to give up all the extras...but once the debt is gone, it opens up so many more possibilities for savings and investing. With kids 4 & 6 you have enough time to eliminate the debt fully now and then go full force towards the savings.

 

[ten6mom]

What if my kids are like me and only are interested in going to school at the nearby in-state university? You think all this preplanning is still necessary? My kids are only 12 and 9 right now (older one going into junior high this fall) and I cannot imagine them knowing at this age where they want to go to school or what they want to study.

 

[HopperFan]

On private schools, simply be careful about expectations if you can't pay sticker price. "We will have to see what is offered in terms of scholarships and grants." I think too often kids get their hearts set on something where the parents intent is "well, if they offer him a break" and then they don't - or not enough - but you don't want to break your kid's heart. So educating them early on the financial game is a great idea.

This is so important to have that conversation early and often. This is where the numbers stand, they are not negotiable, SO have Plans A, B and C that any one of them will give you the academics you want and you would be happy there. Just like high school this is only a few years of your life.

Just like when DD wanted a brand new car that she would drive until it died. She was great about driving a hand me down 27 year old Volvo for 5 years. When we went to the dealership we told her, you are excited, you have picked out your car BUT they must approve your credit on your credit (she had two credit cards, zero balances). If they do not approve you, we WILL NOT co-sign. You will have to find a used car you can afford, you will have to walk away. She went in with a plan, negotiated and she drove out with a brand new loaded car for the price of a standard and a loan in her name. Give them the power of owning their own responsibilities and if they want it, they will find a way.

What if my kids are like me and only are interested in going to school at the nearby in-state university? You think all this preplanning is still necessary? My kids are only 12 and 9 right now (older one going into junior high this fall) and I cannot imagine them knowing at this age where they want to go to school or what they want to study.

Absolutely.

One thing you might find is when they get in high school and all the kids are talking about where they are going and want to go, your child may find themselves wanting something different. Having all these conversations will either prepare them for what it takes or keep them grounded.

Even in state schools can get pricey, especially if they will live on campus. We have a state scholarship program but it doesn't cover all of tuition or the fees, that can be an additional $1500-2000 per semester. Housing is about $10,000 a year. Required Dining Plan is $3000-5000 per year. Books, talk about sticker shock, freshman books alone can be $1000-1500. So even if kids make the requirement for the state scholarship you need well over $15,000-20,000 a year to live on campus. That doesn't include car expenses, clothing, fraternity/sorority or club fees .... And if you don't have a state scholarship program, I would be looking at their tuition costs.

We have lots of kids here from out of state because they can attend school here even with double our tuition for less than their states in state tuition. Depending on where you live it is something to explore.

If they are going to live at home, commute and just take classes then it will be less stressful financially but being prepared is a plus.

It's not so much knowing what they want to study, and honestly so many change their majors after year one/two that had decided - sometimes it's better to not be sure. But what it does is prepare them for the process, the testing, the essays, the costs etc.

 

[crisi]

What if my kids are like me and only are interested in going to school at the nearby in-state university? You think all this preplanning is still necessary? My kids are only 12 and 9 right now (older one going into junior high this fall) and I cannot imagine them knowing at this age where they want to go to school or what they want to study.

You need to understand the nearby in-state universities cost, your likely EFC, and its admission requirements - and you need to do that this early. Which in-state university will make a huge difference - some are incredibly hard to get into - some are set up to be open enrollment - they'll take anyone with a high school degree.

At twelve, you should know how many years of foreign language your target school requires, if they need fine arts classes, how many years of Science or Math. Do they take AP credits? Start exploring college credit in high school options - does your state/district offer PSEO/CIS.

A lot of people assume when their kids are your age that when its time to go to college, getting in will be easy (sometimes it isn't) and there will be free money available (seldom if you are talking about a middle class family and an in-state university). So research that out now. Because you might discover that the obvious solution of the nearby state school isn't going to be a good option for your family.

I live in the Twin Cities - the University of Minnesota is a very well respected school (and one of my alma maters). And I wouldn't send either of my kids to it. Both need something smaller. My son wouldn't have the grades to get in. My daughter could get in, but would get lost at such a huge school. So start thinking about factors like that as well. If our budget demanded a state school - both would be better off at Winona or Mankato. We'd have to pay for a dorm, but their chances of success there would be much higher.