For $2 Billion Disney could have built 16 major attractions instead of fast pass+

[dayvewc]

The more I think about your question, the more I think it deserves an answer.

Another controversial subject in Texas is how much school districts spend to build a new school. Some high school buildings were kissing $100 million.

People think that's outrageous. And yet, that's for an entire high school campus.

So how exactly does Disney manage to spend $170-$375 million on a single attraction?

I work in education. A couple of years ago, during the height of the recession, the state mandated upgrades to all the schools infrastructure. Part of their reasoning was the drastically reduced cost of building during the recession. Except it wasn't really thought through completely. I don't remember exact numbers, but it came out during the school board meetings that the building expansions that they had previously planned to do for (as example) $100/ square foot was now going to cost $275/ square foot, because every district in the state was now putting in bids for construction. So, the construction companies still working were inundated with too much work and were raising prices, because they could since all the districts were now required to expand their buildings, the state was guaranteeing a portion of the cost, and there were limited companies to do the work.

Not directly related to Disney costs, but I wonder if something similar doesn't happen. Limited companies with resources and experience to do the intricate work Disney requires, coupled with "hazard pay" (for lack of better word) for having to work around and through crowds, plus the financial means of Disney itself lets them raise the price astronomically?

Yes, I know that a $15 million coaster with another $35 million in theming would only explain the low end (assuming the almost triple cost that the schools experienced as a baseline) cost. But it could explain why building at Disney seems to cost so much more than building at an amusement park. I know the local park here only builds during the off-season when it is closed to tourists, that has to be somewhere in the bid calculation of how much it will cost, not having to deal with tourist trying to peek (or sneak) in and see what's happening.

 

[Laketravis]

I work in education. A couple of years ago, during the height of the recession, the state mandated upgrades to all the schools infrastructure. Part of their reasoning was the drastically reduced cost of building during the recession. Except it wasn't really thought through completely. I don't remember exact numbers, but it came out during the school board meetings that the building expansions that they had previously planned to do for (as example) $100/ square foot was now going to cost $275/ square foot, because every district in the state was now putting in bids for construction. So, the construction companies still working were inundated with too much work and were raising prices, because they could since all the districts were now required to expand their buildings, the state was guaranteeing a portion of the cost, and there were limited companies to do the work. Not directly related to Disney costs, but I wonder if something similar doesn't happen. Limited companies with resources and experience to do the intricate work Disney requires, coupled with "hazard pay" (for lack of better word) for having to work around and through crowds, plus the financial means of Disney itself lets them raise the price astronomically? Yes, I know that a $15 million coaster with another $35 million in theming would only explain the low end (assuming the almost triple cost that the schools experienced as a baseline) cost. But it could explain why building at Disney seems to cost so much more than building at an amusement park. I know the local park here only builds during the off-season when it is closed to tourists, that has to be somewhere in the bid calculation of how much it will cost, not having to deal with tourist trying to peek (or sneak) in and see what's happening.

That could very well be true. It's Disney, so even the lowest bidder could be high because - it's Disney.

 

[emldrl]

I love Disney, but honestly, last time we went (2004), I was slightly disappointed in the 'thrill' rides. To be fair, I live about 45 minutes away from Kings Island, so I grew up riding some awesome, 'true' thrill rides. Kings Island has always been innovative, and usually when a coaster is built, it is the first of it's kind, or the longest, tallest, etc. Not always, but a lot. So, when I go to WDW, I'm not expecting any really exciting coasters. However, I would love it if they'd build some!!

As for hard times, we are at the low end of the income scale, and the ONLY way we would be able to go would be a really good discount. FP would be ok to have, but not enough to get me to go when we're that broke. Also, I'm used to long lines, so anything less than an hour is gravy to me.

 

[Money82]

I love Disney, but honestly, last time we went (2004), I was slightly disappointed in the 'thrill' rides. To be fair, I live about 45 minutes away from Kings Island, so I grew up riding some awesome, 'true' thrill rides. Kings Island has always been innovative, and usually when a coaster is built, it is the first of it's kind, or the longest, tallest, etc. Not always, but a lot. So, when I go to WDW, I'm not expecting any really exciting coasters. However, I would love it if they'd build some!!

As for hard times, we are at the low end of the income scale, and the ONLY way we would be able to go would be a really good discount. FP would be ok to have, but not enough to get me to go when we're that broke. Also, I'm used to long lines, so anything less than an hour is gravy to me.

But who needs thrill rides when you've got FP+/MM?

 

[emldrl]

But who needs thrill rides when you've got FP+/MM?

Really, I'm sure there are reasons for the system that are known only to Disney execs, but all they did for me was make my planning more complicated. I try to just roll with it, and be positive, because I'm so excited to finally be going back. We'll see how I feel after we go. And like I said, lines at a theme/amusement park are no biggie for us, just par for the course.

 

[Money82]

Really, I'm sure there are reasons for the system that are known only to Disney execs, but all they did for me was make my planning more complicated. I try to just roll with it, and be positive, because I'm so excited to finally be going back. We'll see how I feel after we go. And like I said, lines at a theme/amusement park are no biggie for us, just par for the course.

Yup. But don't tell some folks on The Dis that. Some folks think FP+ increases touring spontaneity. Don't ask me how but they insist on it.

 

[emldrl]

Yup. But don't tell some folks on The Dis that. Some folks think FP+ increases touring spontaneity. Don't ask me how but they insist on it.

I will admit it will be useful in our situation, but spontaneity, not so much. For us, my disabilities will slow us down, so having FP+ will be nice, but so would the old FP system.

I can see both sides of the current 'discussions' going on, and I agree with some points on each side. I've also seen some convoluted and nonsensical arguments on both sides. Makes for good reading. Kind of like rubber necking at an accident; you know you should look away, but you just can't!

And now I'm joining in the pileup!

 

[Money82]

And now I'm joining in the pileup!

Cleanup on aisle disboard!

 

[Davey Jones II]

This is pretty much , but a chunk of this thread has been taken up with criticisms of NFL and, specifically, 7DMT. I have no problems with anyone who dislikes an attraction that I happen to enjoy -- to each his own. But many of the reasons given for disliking Mine Train don't make much sense to me. Specifically:

1) "It's too short."
Aside from Small World, just about everything in Fantasyland is short. If you have to wait a long time for it, you will wait long for a short experience. That's nothing new in Fantasyland. And this ride is new, so, inevitably, you will have to wait a long time for it unless you have an FP+.
Yes, it's two minutes, but those are high quality minutes. The coaster portion is fun and very smooth, and the dark ride portion is beautiful, with superb animatronics. Even the hag at the end is a great AA. Did you see how she moves?

2) "It's not thrilling enough."
This one makes no sense at all. It's intended as a kid friendly coaster, one that most children can ride. It's not going to be Rn'R, for God's sake.

3) "We, as adults, didn't really enjoy it."
Children are the target audience. From everything I've read, it is a hit with that demographic. In my book, that makes it a success.
And many (although clearly not all) adults enjoyed it too. In fact, my g.f preferred 7DMT to Escape from Gringotts (we rode Gringotts four times, thanks to the single rider line, and 7DMT three).

In addition, some posters alluded to poor presentation/facade/queue or some such, which I find quite baffling. The whole attraction, inside and out, is beautiful, and we loved the games and effects in the queue. In fact, that queue almost made us forget the very long, 60 minute wait when we rode it for the first time without a FP+.

A lot of 7DMT's critics compare it unfavorably to other rides, then list a bunch of E Tickets. Again, it's a kid friendly coaster in Fantasyland; it's not going to be an E Ticket.

We enjoyed it for what it is, instead of fixating on some abritrary notion of what we think it should be. We didn't worry about whether it lived up to the hype, or the long wait, or the cost. We just strapped into the ride vehicle and kept an open mind. And I only wish we could have had a couple more ride throughs!

 

[emldrl]

This is pretty much , but a chunk of this thread has been taken up with criticisms of NFL and, specifically, 7DMT. I have no problems with anyone who dislikes an attraction that I happen to enjoy -- to each his own. But many of the reasons given don't make much sense to me. Specifically:

1) "It's too short."
Aside from Small World, just about everything in Fantasyland is short. If you have to wait a long time for it, you will wait long for a short experience. That's nothing new.

2) "It's not thrilling enough."
This one makes no sense at all. It's intended as a kid friendly coaster, one that most children can ride. It's not going to be Rn'R, for God's sake.

3) "We, as adults, didn't really enjoy it."
Children are the target audience. From everything I've read, it is a hit with that demographic. And many (but clearly not all) adults enjoyed it too, including me and my g.f. In fact, my g.f preferred this ride to Escape from Gringotts (we rode Gringotts four times, this ride three). Since some of you talk as if no adult can ever enjoy this ride, I guess that makes us morons or something.

In addition, some posters alluded to poor presentation/facade/queue or some such, which I find quite baffling. The whole ride, inside and out, is beautiful, and we loved the games and effects in the queue. In fact, that queue almost made us forget the very long, 60 minute wait when we rode it for the first time without a FP+.

We enjoyed it for what it is, instead of fixating on some abritrary notion of what we think it should be. We didn't care if it lived up to the hype, or the long wait, or the cost. We just strapped into the ride vehicle and kept an open mind. And I only wish we could have had a couple more ride throughs!

FWIW, I think it looks awesome, and so does my DD 8. We just watched a youtube video of it, and it looks so cool! When we go to WDW, like I said, we aren't really looking for thrill rides. I'm happy to have my kids experience WDW like I got to as a kid. If I want thrills, I'll go down the road to one of the best in the business. (it would be nice if WDW added some thrill rides eventually, though imo)

 

[Money82]

This is pretty much , but a chunk of this thread has been taken up with criticisms of NFL and, specifically, 7DMT. I have no problems with anyone who dislikes an attraction that I happen to enjoy -- to each his own. But many of the reasons given for disliking Mine Train don't make much sense to me. Specifically:

1) "It's too short."
Aside from Small World, just about everything in Fantasyland is short. If you have to wait a long time for it, you will wait long for a short experience. That's nothing new in Fantasyland. And this ride is new, so, inevitably, you will have to wait a long time for it unless you have an FP+.
Yes, it's two minutes, but those are high quality minutes. The coaster portion is fun and very smooth, and the dark ride portion is beautiful, with superb animatronics. Even the hag at the end is a great AA. Did you see how she moves?

2) "It's not thrilling enough."
This one makes no sense at all. It's intended as a kid friendly coaster, one that most children can ride. It's not going to be Rn'R, for God's sake.

3) "We, as adults, didn't really enjoy it."
Children are the target audience. From everything I've read, it is a hit with that demographic. In my book, that makes it a success.
And many (although clearly not all) adults enjoyed it too. In fact, my g.f preferred 7DMT to Escape from Gringotts (we rode Gringotts four times, thanks to the single rider line, and 7DMT three).

In addition, some posters alluded to poor presentation/facade/queue or some such, which I find quite baffling. The whole attraction, inside and out, is beautiful, and we loved the games and effects in the queue. In fact, that queue almost made us forget the very long, 60 minute wait when we rode it for the first time without a FP+.

A lot of 7DMT's critics compare it unfavorably to other rides, then list a bunch of E Tickets. Again, it's a kid friendly coaster in Fantasyland; it's not going to be an E Ticket.

We enjoyed it for what it is, instead of fixating on some abritrary notion of what we think it should be. We didn't worry about whether it lived up to the hype, or the long wait, or the cost. We just strapped into the ride vehicle and kept an open mind. And I only wish we could have had a couple more ride throughs!

So all the criticisms that people give are unjust huh? What criticisms would be justified? Or do you consider it the perfect ride? And no, the ride was intended for families, not just children. Families means kids and adults.

The problem is that people have been begging Disney for years for another thrill ride and they aren't giving it to us. So basically, anytime a new ride is created that isn't a thrill ride, people are going to criticize it for not being so. That's the bottomline.

Disney has a lot of projects in the works: Frozen, Avatarland, Star Wars Land... there needs to be a thrill ride somewhere in here or adults (ya know, the people that actually pay for these trips) are going to lose their minds.

 

[Suvadoo]

This is pretty much , but a chunk of this thread has been taken up with criticisms of NFL and, specifically, 7DMT. I have no problems with anyone who dislikes an attraction that I happen to enjoy -- to each his own. But many of the reasons given for disliking Mine Train don't make much sense to me. Specifically:

1) "It's too short."
Aside from Small World, just about everything in Fantasyland is short. If you have to wait a long time for it, you will wait long for a short experience. That's nothing new in Fantasyland. And this ride is new, so, inevitably, you will have to wait a long time for it unless you have an FP+.
Yes, it's two minutes, but those are high quality minutes. The coaster portion is fun and very smooth, and the dark ride portion is beautiful, with superb animatronics. Even the hag at the end is a great AA. Did you see how she moves?

2) "It's not thrilling enough."
This one makes no sense at all. It's intended as a kid friendly coaster, one that most children can ride. It's not going to be Rn'R, for God's sake.

3) "We, as adults, didn't really enjoy it."
Children are the target audience. From everything I've read, it is a hit with that demographic. In my book, that makes it a success.
And many (although clearly not all) adults enjoyed it too. In fact, my g.f preferred 7DMT to Escape from Gringotts (we rode Gringotts four times, thanks to the single rider line, and 7DMT three).

In addition, some posters alluded to poor presentation/facade/queue or some such, which I find quite baffling. The whole attraction, inside and out, is beautiful, and we loved the games and effects in the queue. In fact, that queue almost made us forget the very long, 60 minute wait when we rode it for the first time without a FP+.

A lot of 7DMT's critics compare it unfavorably to other rides, then list a bunch of E Tickets. Again, it's a kid friendly coaster in Fantasyland; it's not going to be an E Ticket.

We enjoyed it for what it is, instead of fixating on some abritrary notion of what we think it should be. We didn't worry about whether it lived up to the hype, or the long wait, or the cost. We just strapped into the ride vehicle and kept an open mind. And I only wish we could have had a couple more ride throughs!

I don't have a problem with 7DMT, it's fine. I have a problem with it being characterized as "revolutionary" or an E-ticket attraction. It's a nice addition to NFL, period.
When my family goes in April, we will not go on the ride. I love watching it, but IMO it's just not worth the FP+ or a long wait. If the SB is short, we'll go.

 

[tommygunn]

My OP wasn't meant to point out the need for "thrill rides" necessarily. I don't want Disney to turn into a coaster park. But new lands, restaurants, and major "attractions" would have been much better use of funds. Disney is better than anyone at building these types of things - it's what they do. And heck I'm not real estate expert but I'll bet $2B could have been a decent start for the inception of a 5th theme park. To me FP+ is a complete joke, it wasn't needed. The old system was fine and actually better in my opinion and I've been going to Disney annually for a very long time. If I wanted a cool app I would have stayed home and downloaded crap off of iTunes. I go to Disney for top notch vacations and escapism. Now those vacations need to be planned months in advance for my every activity. Pretty sure in a few years I'm going to have to schedule when a use the restroom. Horrible, horrible misuse of a lot of money and a lot of talent.

 

[mom2rtk]

I don't have a problem with 7DMT, it's fine. I have a problem with it being characterized as "revolutionary" or an E-ticket attraction. It's a nice addition to NFL, period.
When my family goes in April, we will not go on the ride. I love watching it, but IMO it's just not worth the FP+ or a long wait. If the SB is short, we'll go.

That sums it up quite nicely.

 

[Laketravis]

A lot of 7DMT's critics compare it unfavorably to other rides, then list a bunch of E Tickets. Again, it's a kid friendly coaster in Fantasyland; it's not going to be an E Ticket...

I'll stop using 7DMT as an example because doing so only gets reduced to whether or not somebody likes it.

How about this instead:

So where ARE those new E Ticket attractions?

 

[mom2rtk]

So where ARE those new E Ticket attractions?

I suppose BOG doesn't qualify?

That really is the issue for many of us. 7DMT seems cute and probably is fun.

But it's about what it seems to have kept Disney from adding while they focused on NFL......... new E-ticket attractions.

When WAS the last one? EE?

 

[Suvadoo]

I suppose BOG doesn't qualify?

That really is the issue for many of us. 7DMT seems cute and probably is fun.

But it's about what it seems to have kept Disney from adding while they focused on NFL......... new E-ticket attractions.

When WAS the last one? EE?

EE probably. But people are hung up on the idea that an E-ticket is synonymous with thrill ride. I think DL's RSR is an E-ticket but it's not a thrill ride.

 

[mom2rtk]

EE probably. But people are hung up on the idea that an E-ticket is synonymous with thrill ride. I think DL's RSR is an E-ticket but it's not a thrill ride.

Agreed. I probably use the terms interchangeably but shouldn't. But I think we're all just talking about "major headliner" when we mention "thrill ride" or "E-ticket". At least I am.

 

[Suvadoo]

Agreed. I probably use the terms interchangeably but shouldn't. But I think we're all just talking about "major headliner" when we mention "thrill ride" or "E-ticket". At least I am.

Same here, but a lot of people assume we're referring to roller coasters.

 

[johde]

EE probably. But people are hung up on the idea that an E-ticket is synonymous with thrill ride. I think DL's RSR is an E-ticket but it's not a thrill ride.

The trouble is, when was the last time Disney did a pull out all the stops E ticket dark ride at WDW. I'd say 1989 with the Great Movie Ride for strictly dark ride and 1992 with Splash Mountain for dark ride with a touch of thrill.

To my mind they've done a lot of "D tickets" since then. Pooh, TSMM. And some "C tickets" Nemo, Little Mermaid. (Note: Peter Pan was a C ticket and just because it's a C ticket doesn't mean it can't be beloved. Also, Hall of Presidents was an E ticket on opening day.) These have been good dark rides but not the epic adventures of the E ticket Dark Rides.