For $2 Billion Disney could have built 16 major attractions instead of fast pass+

[Laketravis]

I stand by the power of now being able to offer additional FP+ to entice visitors, just another tool in the WDW toolbox nobody else has.

Could be, but then a major component of the $2B effort was to have a system that entices guests to spend more. Not going to happen during tough times.

 

[MrInfinity]

What do you think is revolutionary about 7DMT ?

It is a beautiful defining centerpiece for Fantasyland. The theme is over the top. Hills, valleys, rivers, waterfalls, bridges. It is to the MK what the Matterhorn is to DL. The cars have a unique rocking mechanism. It awesome dark sections which everyone who rides it ends up loving, despite the coaster sections not being particularly thrilling to an adult. It has quick turns, but can be enjoyed by very young kids and their families. The queue is fantastic. It is not a tall eyesore. It blends in perfectly with the Fantasyland theme. If you didn't know better, you'd think Fantasyland was built around it -- it is so well integrated from every viewing direction.

Other than "it's not particularly big on the scale of roller coasters for adults" what is there not to love about it?

I'm not going to challenge your order one bit, as it is a matter of opinion. I asked the question and you answered it. Fair is fair.

The entire point of this thread is to ask the question, shouldn't/couldn't Disney have done so much more with the money it is spending? We both agree that the "other 4 boat rides are some of the top rides at WDW." Doesn't Disney's game-changing animated classic deserve better treatment, (or at least as good as treatment) as Song of the South?

Yes that is the crux of this thread. I do believe SDMT *is* that classic. Mermaid, well, I'll say, per my listing, it's a mid-grade ride. You'd be hard pressed (I'm guessing) to call it a lowest caliber ride of all... (but if you do, fine) but I'll at least agree that Mermaid is middle of the pack in terms of overall. But that's okay... they built the headliner in SDMT. So with it, you need support rides. Not every ride should have the major cost and maintenance of a SDMT, and adding Mermaid will create midlevel things to do and pull ppl off Small World, Pirates, etc. You do need the balance of a headliner pulling people to the parks / land and then lots of secondary rides that are cheaper to maintain to provide a fuller experience.

I'm sure they could have reallocated some money from their wrist band initiative to give guests a new classic ride.

I look at the spending on the wrist band initiative as an entirely separate budget. They will budget so much for rides, and plan to have the right number of rides to max out their parks. Not more rides than would pull in more people, and not fewer rides that would leave the parks below capacity - but the right number. Then the budgeting for the MM+ is totally separate. This was a computer system. Like if Disney upgraded its back-end computer system for however much, that would not be in lieu of rides. Or if they revamped their firewalls / security in light of the Sony thing, that would be out of their security budget. The MM+ is money set aside to further their technology, tracking, marketing, usability, spending, guest experience, and monetizing of fast passes. Totally separate budget.

 

[Money82]

It is a beautiful defining centerpiece for Fantasyland. The theme is over the top. Hills, valleys, rivers, waterfalls, bridges. It is to the MK what the Matterhorn is to DL. The cars have a unique rocking mechanism. It awesome dark sections which everyone who rides it ends up loving, despite the coaster sections not being particularly thrilling to an adult. It has quick turns, but can be enjoyed by very young kids and their families. The queue is fantastic. It is not a tall eyesore. It blends in perfectly with the Fantasyland theme. If you didn't know better, you'd think Fantasyland was built around it -- it is so well integrated from every viewing direction.

Other than "it's not particularly big on the scale of roller coasters for adults" what is there not to love about it?

It could have been more of a thrill ride. And please don't say, "It was never meant to be that." Because I would say, Well perhaps it should have been. People have been clamoring for another thrill ride and Disney doesn't appear to be listening.

Additionally, the ride could have been longer. In fact, it is so short, that I would never consider waiting more than 30 minutes to ride it and will only ride it when I have a FP+. Basically the same way I treat Peter Pan.

Yes that is the crux of this thread. I do believe SDMT *is* that classic. Mermaid, well, I'll say, per my listing, it's a mid-grade ride. You'd be hard pressed (I'm guessing) to call it a lowest caliber ride of all... (but if you do, fine) but I'll at least agree that Mermaid is middle of the pack in terms of overall. But that's okay... they built the headliner in SDMT. So with it, you need support rides. Not every ride should have the major cost and maintenance of a SDMT, and adding Mermaid will create midlevel things to do and pull ppl off Small World, Pirates, etc. You do need the balance of a headliner pulling people to the parks / land and then lots of secondary rides that are cheaper to maintain to provide a fuller experience.

Magic already has plenty of support rides, especially in the fantasyland section. Little Mermaid didn't need to be that. It could have been much, much more. I consider Little Mermaid to be one of the best Disney movies ever and to have such an awful cheap ride built is a true travesty. I also take issue with you labeling it a "mid-grade" ride. It's nowhere near being a mid-grade ride. People Mover is a mid-grade and Little Mermaid couldn't hold the people mover's jockstrap.

I look at the spending on the wrist band initiative as an entirely separate budget. They will budget so much for rides, and plan to have the right number of rides to max out their parks. Not more rides than would pull in more people, and not fewer rides that would leave the parks below capacity - but the right number. Then the budgeting for the MM+ is totally separate. This was a computer system. Like if Disney upgraded its back-end computer system for however much, that would not be in lieu of rides. Or if they revamped their firewalls / security in light of the Sony thing, that would be out of their security budget. The MM+ is money set aside to further their technology, tracking, marketing, usability, spending, guest experience, and monetizing of fast passes. Totally separate budget.

MM/FP+ wasn't necessary. Nobody asked for it. Disney just decided to give it to us instead of building new attractions and thrill rides which is what people have been asking for. That's what you're not getting.

 

[Davey Jones II]

I'm not going to challenge your order one bit, as it is a matter of opinion. I asked the question and you answered it. Fair is fair. But what I would dispute is:



The entire point of this thread is to ask the question, shouldn't/couldn't Disney have done so much more with the money it is spending? We both agree that the "other 4 boat rides are some of the top rides at WDW." Doesn't Disney's game-changing animated classic deserve better treatment, (or at least as good as treatment) as Song of the South? Even if that cost 10x what they spent? I'm sure they could have reallocated some money from their wrist band initiative to give guests a new classic ride.

The original version of Mermaid was part of the $1.1 billion DCA expansion. The big E Ticket ride intended for that expansion was always Radiator Springs Racers, not Mermaid. Could they have gone all out for both rides? Sure, but the focus and budget was on making Cars Land great. In Disney's defense, they did spend $100 million on Mermaid.

For the NFL clone, I love the queue and exterior -- both are a vast improvement over DCA's version. I just hope they give the ride itself the plussing that the first version has received. No excuse for lavishing so much attention on the exterior, but not refreshing the ride.

 

[Money82]

The original version of Mermaid was part of the $1.1 billion DCA expansion. The big E Ticket ride intended for that expansion was always Radiator Springs Racers, not Mermaid. Could they have gone all out for both rides? Sure, but the focus and budget was on making Cars Land great. In Disney's defense, they did spend $100 million on Mermaid.

For the NFL clone, I love the queue and exterior -- both are a vast improvement over DCA's version. I just hope they give the ride itself the plussing that the first version has received. No excuse for lavishing so much attention on the exterior, but not refreshing the ride.

What does Radiator Springs Racers have to do with Disney World? What am I missing here?

 

[Davey Jones II]

MM/FP+ wasn't necessary. Nobody asked for it. Disney just decided to give it to us instead of building new attractions and thrill rides which is what people have been asking for. That's what you're not getting.

I agree it wasn't necessary; for one thing, it hasn't been implemented at any other Disney park or resort, and there are no signs that it will.

To me, the most pertinent question is the following: was the system implemented, and paid for, at the expense of new attractions? It's hard to say for sure because Disney (and Universal, for that matter) have been playing their cards very close to the vest in recent years. Apparently weary of internet leaks, they seem to have stopped making announcements altogether. That, of course, makes it look like there is little in the pipeline. We are left with piecing together clues and hints, and scrutinizing every rumor for a wiff of veracity.

So it's easy to get frustrated and convince ourselves that MM/MDE/FP+ robbed us of future projects. I've often fallen prey to such suspicions myself. I would be delighted to be proven wrong. I guess time will tell (cuz Disney ain't tellin').

 

[Davey Jones II]

What does Radiator Springs Racers have to do with Disney World? What am I missing here?

Mermaid in NFL is an exact clone (the ride, not the exterior/queue) of the DCA version. That version didn't get the "E Ticket treatment" because RSR was intended as the big E Ticket.

Jimmy V was asking why Mermaid didn't get a much higher budget and developed into a new classic. That's the reason.

 

[Money82]

Mermaid in NFL is an exact clone (the ride, not the exterior/queue) of the DCA version. That version didn't get the "E Ticket treatment" because RSR was intended as the big E Ticket.

Jimmy V was asking why Mermaid didn't get a much higher budget and developed into a new classic. That's the reason.

Okay I kind of understand now but still doesn't add up. Mermaid didn't have to be an exact clone. Rides differ all the time. Disney could have built a new version of the Mermaid ride since there was no RSR in WDW.

 

[Money82]

I agree it wasn't necessary; for one thing, it hasn't been implemented at any other Disney park or resort, and there are no signs that it will.

To me, the most pertinent question is the following: was the system implemented, and paid for, at the expense of new attractions? It's hard to say for sure because Disney (and Universal, for that matter) have been playing their cards very close to the vest in recent years. Apparently weary of internet leaks, they seem to have stopped making announcements altogether. That, of course, makes it look like there is little in the pipeline. We are left with piecing together clues and hints, and scrutinizing every rumor for a wiff of veracity.

So it's easy to get frustrated and convince ourselves that MM/MDE/FP+ robbed us of future projects. I've often fallen prey to such suspicions myself. I would be delighted to be proven wrong. I guess time will tell (cuz Disney ain't tellin').

Sure but we can look at the recent history as a guide to see if the current management embraces the idea of new attractions. And since TSM, I really haven't been that excited about anything Disney has done in the parks.

The look of Fantasyland is kind of cool but the substance is lacking. 7D was a cute ride to add in. But on the whole, it was a letdown for me.

The other parks have gone to hell in a handbasket. Nothing has changed in Epcot in the past decade. Nothing has changed in Animal Kingdom. And DHS has completely pooped itself since TSM. American Idol was a disaster. The Indiana Jones show is old and tired (they should remove it and replace it with Indiana Jones the Ride). Great Movie Ride is old and tired. The revamped Star Tours wasn't impressive.

 

[JimmyV]

Mermaid in NFL is an exact clone (the ride, not the exterior/queue) of the DCA version. That version didn't get the "E Ticket treatment" because RSR was intended as the big E Ticket.

Jimmy V was asking why Mermaid didn't get a much higher budget and developed into a new classic. That's the reason.

That is the result. There is no doubt that Mermaid was the little sister to RSR in DCA. But since WDW was/is not getting RSR, couldn't Mermaid have been the focal point of NFL with a revolutionary attraction? I suppose the counter argument is that 7DMT and Belle's Viullage are the functional equivalent of RSR and Cars Land with Mermaid playing a supporting role to each. But that just seems a bit lazy. As far as mid-level attractions go, I see them as the right parking place for mid-level movies/cartoons. Dumbo. Tea Cups. Pooh. Barnstormer. Stuff like that. But the game-changing renaissance animation classics like Aladdin, Lion King, Little Mermaid, Cars, and so forth should get E-Ticket treatment. Not modified Dumbo rides, Salvator Dali surrealist-style stage shows and ride-through mannequin attractions.

 

[mom2rtk]

The crown jewel of DCA's renovation was RSR, something everyone could experience once they paid admission and walked through the gate.

The crown jewel of NFL was BOG, something your paid park admission won't get you. If they continue down the lunch FP only road, it's something paid admission and some extra cash still won't get you.

 

[Suvadoo]

The crown jewel of DCA's renovation was RSR, something everyone could experience once they paid admission and walked through the gate.

The crown jewel of NFL was BOG, something your paid park admission won't get you. If they continue down the lunch FP only road, it's something paid admission and some extra cash still won't get you.

Interesting. So, you don't think 7DMT is the highlight of NFL. Why not? Just curious.
I'm not wowed by 7DMT. I think the exterior is attractive, I don't even notice the swaying car movement, and it's way too short. It's not what I would consider revolutionary. On my next trip, I won't be trying for a FP+ reservation for it. To me, it's just not worth it. I think the hoopla will die down and it won't be a sought after FP+ ressie in another year.

 

[mom2rtk]

Interesting. So, you don't think 7DMT is the highlight of NFL. Why not? Just curious.
I'm not wowed by 7DMT. I think the exterior is attractive, I don't even notice the swaying car movement, and it's way too short. It's not what I would consider revolutionary. On my next trip, I won't be trying for a FP+ reservation for it. To me, it's just not worth it. I think the hoopla will die down and it won't be a sought after FP+ ressie in another year.

I haven't seen it yet. I am just basing that on the mixed reviews so far. And whether it moved the bar forward on attractions within the park. I think BOG did move the bar forward (although not really an attraction). So far it doesn't seem 7DMT did.

I still want to try it. I'm sure we'll like it. I just think the hoopla will die down, while BOG has been open for 2 years and the demand is still crazy high. And I've experienced BOG and thought it was a spectacular success.

 

[Laketravis]

I agree that BOG probably has staying power. It's a richly themed experience that can last upwards of an hour or more.

On the other hand, 7DMT is over in less than a minute. And ironically enough, those who admonish anyone who doesn't praise it by suggesting they go to Six Flags instead probably don't realize that the company that built 7DMT (Vekoma) has been supplying turn-key coasters and ferris wheels to Six Flags parks as well as Disney for years and has a long history of innovative designs:

http://www.vekoma.com/

7DMT was probably not much of a challenge for them and certainly didn't push any technological envelopes; it doesn't even receive honorable mention on their own website.

 

[mom2rtk]

I agree that BOG probably has staying power. It's a richly themed experience that can last upwards of an hour or more.

Just as a ride on RSR and a walk through Carsland is a richly themed experience that can last upwards of a hour or more (not even counting the wait in line).

 

[JimmyV]

(Vekoma) has been supplying turn-key coasters and ferris wheels to Six Flags parks as well as Disney for years and has a long history of innovative designs:

http://www.vekoma.com/

Boy. Their "Panoramic Flight Simulator" looks vaguely familiar.

 

[Hokie2000]

I agree that BOG probably has staying power. It's a richly themed experience that can last upwards of an hour or more.

On the other hand, 7DMT is over in less than a minute. And ironically enough, those who admonish anyone who doesn't praise it by suggesting they go to Six Flags instead probably don't realize that the company that built 7DMT (Vekoma) has been supplying turn-key coasters and ferris wheels to Six Flags parks as well as Disney for years and has a long history of innovative designs:

http://www.vekoma.com/

7DMT was probably not much of a challenge for them and certainly didn't push any technological envelopes; it doesn't even receive honorable mention on their own website.

People like 7DMT.

 

[mom2rtk]

People like 7DMT.

I'm sure we'll like 7DMT too. I just don't know if people are wowed by it like they are with Carsland or BOG.

 

[JimmyV]

People like 7DMT.

But people LOVE Splash Mountain and Pirates of the Caribbean and Soarin' and Cars Land and.......

 

[Laketravis]

People like 7DMT.

Some do. Some don't. Everyone agrees it's not a "thrill" ride, and most people agree it doesn't need to be because "thrill" is not required to produce "wow".

The discussion is really more along the lines "Did Disney further their heritage of building innovative, unique, imaginative, immersive attractions when they built 7DMT?"

I don't think the answer to that is a definitive "yes". Take the coaster track out of the equation and compare what is left to the theming of Expedition Everest or Tower of Terror or Rock n Roller Coaster or even Space Mountain. From entrance to exit they contain much more and better theming than was put into 7DMT, which is primarily stamped concrete and some projection-head figures (same as the extensive queue for Under the Sea, by the way, which seems to indicate a trend).