Follow up on Paying for DD Boyfriends Trip

[labdogs42]

I read the other post, too, and I think you need to cut this guy some slack. He sounds like a decent guy. I'm not sure what your DD interpreted as "pouting", but maybe he was just asking if they could do some things together or differently than the whole family and she took offense to that. Disney is a tough vacation to bring newbies on. Maybe a trip to the beach or something would have been a better starter trip for them.

As for the shopping thing, who care how much he spent on stuff for himself? he used his own money, right? And he paid you the $500 you asked for, plus money toward dinners. He's financially stable and 22 years old, he can buy what he wants. It sounds like you are wanting him to offer to pay for more things on his own. If that's what you want, tell him that. Don't expect him to read your mind. And, if you DH usually jumps in and pays, that makes it tough for the boyfriend to offer. Maybe you and your DH need to get on the same page if you want to try and teach this guy to pay for things. It sort of sounds like you and your DD are setting the BF up to fail to me.

As for the other thread, I'd be sure to set up a business relationship with this guy around the bookkeeping. That may be another reason he thinks that he doesn't have to pay for things, you have just been providing them. That's not his fault, either.

 

[Green Tea]

You set it up as a "business" type arrangement......he would pay you for his expenses. Then you get mad when he didn't do what you wanted. Turn it around and look at it as a business arrangement in the other way. You paid him for installing floors. You were paying......did you allow him to do it exactly as he wanted without giving any input as to what you wanted?

You didn't have a guest along; you had along another adult who was paying his way. If he wanted to sleep until noon, then let him. You didn't have to wait for him. A 22 year old is perfectly capable of finding his girlfriend via cell phone when he is ready to go to the park.

This is a good reminder for me that when traveling with my adult children and their friends along as guests, to make sure I treat them as adults, not like my 7 year old that I get to drag along to whatever I want.

 

[kwhite1022]

Hmm sounds like he learned alot about "princess" and mommy dearest to me! It works both ways. Im sure he will rethink what a lifetime with her, with trips like this would mean for him. As well as what potential inlaws you and your husband would make. Very enlightening.

 

[maddiesmom0116]

Well I think you need to have a talk with your DD - if she doesnt want to vacation with him - she certainly doesnet want a long term relationship or marriage with this person... And I think its great that you said what you did! Good for you!

I agree, you really get to know someone when you travel with them for the first time. You don't get a lot of beak time from each other an get to know the person when they may not be at their best.

I think you guys were very nice and it is too bad he was not grateful about it.
Your daughter should realize this is who she is with, he is capable of acting this way and the more comfortable he gets in the relationship the more he will act like this when not on vacation. Good luck telling her that though.

I know people carry issues from their upbringing, but some of this things described are not just wierd quircks because he hasn't traveled before, they are personailty traits you may not have seen before.

good luck

 

[Green Tea]

Last month I posted about DD boyfriend coming with us and who should pay for what. Considering I had paid him market value for my flooring installation.
Well it was interesting. It was decided he would run a tab for meals and he would pay daily or every few days. We paid for several of his sit down dinners and my DS paid for his dinner one night. At the end of the trip he owed about $75 for the last few days and my husband said to forget it. The interesting thing was he didn't thank him. It appears if you directly remind him of how much he owes he pays up but if you pay he just takes it for granted.

DD said that next year she isn't sure she will invite him. I asked why and she said he wants his own way and pouts if he didn't get it. Examples were that he didn't understand that you had to get up and get to the parks early if you wanted to ride the popular rides and get things done. He thought he could sleep to noon and then go and still do what he wanted. He also didn't consider that other people had favourites. He would want something different for lunch than the rest of the group and in the end we just catered to him so he wouldn't pout. When shopping it was all about what he wanted to look at. DD has never spent so little on a trip since she didn't have time. Same for me.He was mainly pleasant and co-operative when I spoke to him directly. I did tell him one night at supper that his sulking was not acceptable and that someone should have told him so when he was six. He was shocked that I spoke to him so plainly and I told him that DD was not alllowed to behave that way he needed to grow up. My sister almost chocked on her drink. She then told him that I was right and he was lucky that I hadn't made him stand in the corner at Animal Kingdom because I was quite capable to doing it with DD and her kids. He was a little embarrassed but mainly because I called him on it.

I realize that he isn't used to travelling since his parents never took him anywhere but he is 22 and needs to act his age. If he is still around next year DD and I will have a long talk before she invites him. She is seeing that many of their differences are big ones and that she is also set in her ways. He is a nice boy but his upbringing complicates things. Hopefully for his sake he will realize that this is not how the world is and grows up.

Nepean

I read this again, and the more I look at it, the more it just seems wrong. You say he is 22 and he needs to act his age. It really sounds like he was trying to be 22 but you were treating him like a child. Telling him when he needed to get up, where he had to shop and eat.

I think before I'd write him off as marriage material, I would try to see him as an adult paying for a vacation he had no control over. If you had taken him as a guest, he might have behaved completely differently. But he wasn't a guest.

All the responses are good to read. We have taken friends along as guests on vacations before. This year we take a significant other for the first time. I treat my adult children as adults, and the SO is our guest, so I hope we don't run into the same problems. Plus I went on vacation with what are now my ILs when I was about that age. I learned that expecting 100% of the time to be family time and never allowing adult children to venture off on their own was not a good idea. I will remember that too.

 

[DCLbrideSept2009]

DH and I have 4 kids between us (2 mine, 2 his, all live with us). Ages are 9, 11, 11 and 16. Since there is such a big age gap between the oldest and the other 3, we let the 16-yo bring a friend on our trips to WDW. But we know that if they don't want to tour the way we want to, they are old enough to go off on their own. If they want to sleep in and meet up with us later, that's fine. But they always get up with us early anyway cuz they know that's the only way to ride all the rides we want without long waits. Heck, on our last trip, the teenagers became our FP runners! DD volunteered the first time... this was at DHS and they were first at the FP machines for TSM. From then on, FP running was their "job."

Basically, we tell them each day what WE are going and they are welcome to join us or go off on their own. For the most part, they stay with us, venturing off on their own occasionally.

 

[HM]

Sounds like it was a learning experience for all involved. And it sounds like overall the trip went better than you had feared. Thanks for updating.

 

[DVCBELLE]

This to me sounds like a relationship going nowhere fast.

When I was reading your post - I wondered why you didn't just say to him - we're going to go do a little shopping for ourselves - call us when you are ready to meet up. Or - we are going to Epcot at 9 am tomorrow - if you are ready to go great - if not then this is how you get there and you can call us when you are ready to meet up with us. If he picked a place to eat and you didn't want to eat there - again tell him to get his food and meet you later.

He's 22 years old and has his own business and paid his own way and then you got mad when he wanted any input.

He should not have pouted but you should have recognized the need to change how things were going - he clearly didn't know how to tell you what he wanted and instead of finding a compromise you all just did what he wanted and apparently are pouting about it just like he did.

I also think it was rude to call him out in front of everyone. He's 22 - you don't scold adults - you have discussions with them. As long as you continue to treat him like a child - he will act like one.

I think all of you made a lot of mistakes and the fact that your DD doesn't want him to go again says that she is not willing to talk with him about things but rather just leave him behind - definitely not a healthy foundation for the relationship. She has been to Disney 18 times and was so disappointed that she didn't get to do things her way that she isn't going to invite him again? What if they get married and have kids - is she going to keep going with you and leave her husband at home b/c you do things the way she wants to and he won't?

Don't get me wrong - I have a close relationship with my parents and we all still vacation together almost every year - but only b/c it works for ALL of us. If my DH didn't match my family's vacation style - he and I would find one that works for US - not leave him behind while I went with my parents!

ETA: I had followed your previous thread and it seemed to me that after an ADULT conversation things worked out well - curious as to why you didn't try that this time?

 

[cglaura]

I think it is the way he handled it that the OP was commenting. It doesn't matter that he should / could / would do what he wanted on the vacation. No 22 year old should pout and sulk. You sit down with the other guests and have a discussion like the adult you are supposed to be, and the OP told him so, though I think perhaps that could have been done in private.

Maybe the pre-planning is where it could be avoided. Let the newbie know EXACTLY how you tour. Decide before the types of food so they know that sometimes it will be their pick, sometimes yours. Same with attractions. And that if after a few days it doesn't really suit them then you can help them accommodate a later day plan, etc. But knowing it before you travel is key.

ETA: this wasn't in response to the post above, just commenting my thoughts..

 

[nepean]

I guess I am not as clear as I sometimes think I am. DD boyfriend was well aware that on park days we get up and to the parks by 9. He also was aware that there would be a group of people and we accomodate everyone's favourite rides and attractions. He got to pick first some days and some days last. He did get to do everything he wanted on each and every day except the day at Universal that was so chaotic at the park that doing anything was difficult. He did get to do his choice of roller coaster. Regarding getting up and going with us or staying behind and joining us he had that option but did not exercise it. As for meals we ate as needed since BIL is a severe diabetic and eats often. Breakfast was provided for him each morning, pop and snacks in the room and most lunches. He was responsible for his dinner and anything additional he wanted. At no time did anyone in the group demand that he do anything. If he got to pick first and everything he was fine, the minute it was not his choice he would become withdrawn and sulk. I personally asked him several times if he was alright to make sure he was not feeling ill or whatever. Each and every time he shrugged his shoulders and said it was nothing. It was obvious to everyone that he was not happy. The days he chose to sleep in the rest of us waited and did not sulk. I did laundry and sat at the pool and read until he was ready.

Regarding the accomodations and who chose what he included himself to a trip that was already planned. HIs total out of pocket expenses except for personal meals was $450 for his room and $375 for tickets. This was for a 2 1/2 week trip. I wish my bill was that low. I paid an additonal $700. for room and meals since he was with us. We were lucky that we could get a second room at the same discounted rate.

As for being "mommy dearest and the princess" if asking someone directly what is wrong and when they apparently cannot deal with it as an adult and tell you, then calling them out on their behaviour is what will happen. I do not take this type of behaviour from DD, DN,or anyone for that matter. He was making everyone feel like they were walking on egg shells. He wants to be part of this family, including calling my DS and BIL aunt and uncle then he gets treated like family. You cannot have it both ways. You are either part of the family group or you are not.

He was here today at lunch time after classes and we asked him if he thought doing Disney every year was a good idea or he would prefer a vacation like his parents do. Drinking, eating, partying (his words) without kids. He wasn't sure of what to say. I will plan next year in the spring since we are going to be there for Christmas as was originally planned for this year. DS and BIL are hoping to go to Hawaii. If he is still around and decides to come we are having a major conversation before hand and he will know that if he wants to take off on his own or with DD go ahead but sulking will not be tolerated.

I think that this relationship will eventually self destruct. DD will tire of giving in and having him always doing what he wants when he wants. He is a smart, hard working young man but he makes his decisions based on what only he wants and not if it is a team thing. This is the way his parents treat him and his siblings. He wants the privileges of the family but not the responsiblities.
Which is too bad. I think my DD is in for a lot of heartbreak.

Nepean

 

[shortbun]

Seems to me you are mad at him because he followed his father's advice and charged you full price for installing your floor. My parents insisted my then boyfriend/now husband charge them 'just like everyone else' when he did work at their house. We called my father 'Silas Marner' because he was so cheap but he knew to pay my boyfriend/husband full price. Why would you expect a 22yo to give you a discount? Because he's dating your daughter? OR-because he's dating your daughter would it be a good thing if you made sure you paid him full price? You are obviously holding that against him. He needs to move on as he's not a good fit with your family.

 

[krcit]

I'm wondering why everything had to be a group activity We went to Disney with another family and there were days when we went to different parks and met up in the afternoon. Or when we were in Epcot, we wanted to get food and they didn't so we split up for an hour. Even within my own family there were times when I left DH and the kids to go shop on my own or go explore a different resort. I'm not condoning the sulking because I won't put up with that from my own family but maybe a bit more freedom could lighten things up?

 

[ceecee]

Seriously, not too many 22 year olds are marriage material. I am really suprised that your DD wanted to stay as a group and not venture off with her DBF at least part of the time. My DD at 14 liked to go off with her friend last year (they thought they were alone!) we would wait for them. Princess to me also means high maintenence. That said last year DD's BBF went with her family the same time as we did, they did Disney TOTALLY different that us and that's fine, I guess we are set in our Disney ways. Getting up early to ride rides was not important at all to them. We met up a few times and took their DD with us several times.

 

[nepean]

Actually I am not mad at him for paying full price for the floor installation. I was upset that he changed the agreement after I purchased the material. I don't expect him to work for free. On the other hand feeding a 22 year old male 5 nights a week and several lunches etc. is not free either. He wanted to go to Disney, I wanted new flooring installed and it was a good trade. The way his father told him to charge me insinuated that I might somehow cheat him. I have referred him to several clients and he now has work lined up for months all from my referrals and their referrals. My word is good and I suspect that his father's isn't always from some of the stories I have been told by the son. We changed the travel dates to accomodate his family and then they went off to a party on Christmas day and left the kids to fend for themselves. He was here Christmas Eve, stayed over, went to grandparents for a couple of hours, home for an hour and back here for dinner with my family. He knows that my family is very family orientated and he tells us that he wishes he had the growing up time that DD has had.

He indeed has opportunities to go off on his own at Disney but chose not too. He enjoys my family but he sulks when he doesn't get his own way, which often we don't even know what he wants. That is what I consider childish and won't tolerate.

Nepean

 

[mjkacmom]

OP, how much time did the couple get to spend alone together? On our last 10 day WDW vacation with my parents, we absolutely needed a few hours a day away from each other, and we weren't even on the same floor! I assume you didn't eat every meal together, or tour the parks together all of the time, right?

 

[LoriKutchey]

thanks for updating. I remember your original thread.
It sounds like you handled things well.

 

[CloveLeaf]

It sounds like he enjoys "family" time with you guys because he didn't get it from his own family or he wanted to please his girlfriend's family or both. Maybe a trip with "family" made him want to feel like a child again? It is very nice of you to provide breakfast and lunch to him. But cut this guy some slack. He was on vacation. And as for either part of the family or not, I have a different opinion. We just can't treat non-family members just like family. Can you imagine treating mother in law just like your own mother? We can have a fight with our own mothers and it won't affect our love to each other. Try a fight with mother in law. Children's adult friends and sons/daughters in law are quite different from our own children. And they definitely shouldn't be treated the same way. Scolding another adult just doesn't work the way you truly wanted. It will damage the relationship.

 

[dizkids]

How old is OP's DD? Just wondering if it is found inappropriate for the young couple to ever be left alone. 2 Plus weeks on a trip is a long time to be with people. i would think they would want some time to themselves. And i cant figure out why OP would make everyone wait for a 22 year old to wake up and not go into the park if that is what the group wanted to do?

 

[3girlsfun]

Growing up we were always allowed to bring friends on vacations. We were not rich by any means, but, compared to many of my friends my parents had more money. They always paid 100% of the vacation, except any souvineirs that the friend wanted to purchase. I think this is the way to go...it doesn't create any confusion. We also would go off and do our own things, but, knowing that we would have to pay for our own "stuff" if we didn't go with the family. The thing I think that worked was that we knew this going into it.

Deciding everything before you leave is the key. I hope one day to take my DD's friends on vacation with us. We are actually planning on one of two things. Buying a camper so we can take lots of extra kids, or buying enough DVC points that we can get large villas to take lots of kids with us! The more the merrier to us.

 

[nepean]

DD is 20 and has been dating him for 1 year and 4 months. They had most evenings alone together and usually had breakfast alone. We are up and ready before him so we went to breakfast first.

DD has decided to talk to him about not telling her when something is bothering him and just sulking. This was a problem previously and he had agreed that it was wrong and he would tell her what was bothering him. He didn't do so in Florida and she did not call him out on it because she did not want to risk a big fight. She is aware that this type of behaviour is not something that she could live with and that it upset other people and made them uncomfortable.

He has told his grandparents that he had a great time. Grandfather called tonight to invite DD to lunch on Sunday with boyfriend. He told DD that he was so happy that his grandson had her and a family that actually cared about him and treated him so well. I guess he had a good time. But DD does need to talk to him about what he liked and didn't like about the trip before we would ever travel with him again.

Since he has previously said he likes the fact that I am straight forward he and I will have a talk as well but I will let things cool off before I do that.
My best friend said it could be as simple as that he doesn't know what to do and how to do it since his parents haven't given him a very good example. But the pouting has to go. If you have a problem speak up. I might not agree but at least we can find a compromise. I do know that he cares deeply for my DD and treats her well. But he isn't accustomed to sharing himself and can be seen as self centered.

Nepean