Fixed Week v. Traditional Points-New Option

[WilsonFlyer]

I wonder how this fixed week option will affect people trying to book using traditional points.

I presume you will have to purchase your fixed week according to the view and accomodations you will always want. As an example, you would have to buy enough points for a 1 bedroom lakeview during week 51 (Christmas week) year after year. DVD only sells 35% of those which then leaves 65% of those rooms available for traditional booking. Is that correct? If so, it may be quite difficult for non fixed week owners to get highly sought after days at the 11 month window.

I'm battling this in my mind too. I can see where a fixed week could be advantageous for holiday weeks but what I'm most interested in is the first couple of weeks of December. Like I said, I'm still contemplating but right now, I'm leaning towards not buying a fixed week since what I really want is the week AFTER Thanksgiving and traditionally, it's not that difficult IF you have home resort advantage at 11 months. The larger resorts are even available at 7, usually.

 

[hakepb]

I wonder how this fixed week option will affect people trying to book using traditional points.

I presume you will have to purchase your fixed week according to the view and accomodations you will always want. As an example, you would have to buy enough points for a 1 bedroom lakeview during week 51 (Christmas week) year after year. DVD only sells 35% of those which then leaves 65% of those rooms available for traditional booking. Is that correct? If so, it may be quite difficult for non fixed week owners to get highly sought after days at the 11 month window.

Yes, fixed weeks could make it slightly more difficult to book at 11 months.
If they sell 35% of one week, and 70% tried to "walk" into that week, some walkers would fail.

Is it 35% of points in a week, or 35% of a view? If its points, then its possible for fixed week owners to lock up 100% of the GV's for a given week...

 

[RSWA2]

Do Fixed Week owners who will own 35% of the resort have a particular advantage for the room class that they own in, in terms of booking priority?

As, montrealdisneylovers, pointed out, will it be that 65% of rooms be available for non-fixed week owners. But what is that timeframe? From 11 months until 31 days? And then within 30 days all it's the inventory from Fixed Weeks will be open to everyone? Or will it be at 7 months? But then Fixed Week owners won't have much of a priority. If I was a fixed week owner, I am paying a premium so I should be entitled to the week that I own at a reasonable booking time.

That would make it really tight for VGF owners at 11 months and other DVC owners at 7 months. I wonder when will DVC free up the Fixed Week rooms. How long does DVC guarantee a Fixed Week owner their week?

How do other timeshares work in this sense? In fact, how does Aulani work for this?

 

[wdrl]

Do Fixed Week owners who will own 35% of the resort have a particular advantage for the room class that they own in, in terms of booking priority?

As, montrealdisneylovers, pointed out, will it be that 65% of rooms be available for non-fixed week owners. But what is that timeframe? From 11 months until 31 days? And then within 30 days all it's the inventory from Fixed Weeks will be open to everyone? Or will it be at 7 months? But then Fixed Week owners won't have much of a priority. If I was a fixed week owner, I am paying a premium so I should be entitled to the week that I own at a reasonable booking time.

That would make it really tight for VGF owners at 11 months and other DVC owners at 7 months. I wonder when will DVC free up the Fixed Week rooms. How long does DVC guarantee a Fixed Week owner their week?

How do other timeshares work in this sense? In fact, how does Aulani work for this?

At Aulani, the Fixed Ownership Interest guarantees the owner a specific type of vacation home (for example, a two-bedroom Ocean View) during a specific week. The Member does not have to call Member Services each year because the reservation is automatically booked each year before any traditional points reservations can be made on a first-come, first-served basis. At Aulani, the fixed weeks run from Sunday to Sunday. The fixed week, such as Week #44, is the 44th Sunday in the calendar year.

DVD says it will not sell Fixed Ownership Interests that include more than 35% of any specific Use Day for any specific vacation home type. The Aulani POS says "This means, for example, that Christmas day will be available for reservations on a first-come, first served basis in at least 65% of the 2 Bedroom Ocean View Vacation Homes."

At VGF, there are 100 vacation homes. In the extremely unlikely event that DVD sells the maximum number of Fixed Ownership Interests, that would leave 65 vacation homes for traditional point owners to book stays on a first-come, first served basis. However, I could see DVD selling near the maximum number of Fixed Weeks for weeks #51 and #52, especially for the Grand Villas. Since VGF has six Grand Villas, DVD could sell a maximum of two GV fixed weeks for week #51 and for week #52. This would leave four Grand Villas for others to book using traditional points for those two weeks.

Keep in mind that traditional point owners are not competing with the Fixed Week owners for same number of villas; traditional points owners are only competing against other traditional points owners. If a Fixed Week owner opts out of their fixed week, then they will end up competing with other traditional points owners. However, if the Fixed Week owner opts out, then their fixed week reservation is cancelled and that space becomes available for all traditional points owners to book on a first-come, first-served basis.

 

[SpaceMountain77]

Originally, I had planned on adding-on, however, I have decided to purchase the fixed week option for two reasons.

First, I would be incredibly disappointed if I was unable to book a room at the Grand Floridian during my preferred season. I want the assurance of knowing that I am guaranteed my room, view and week every year.

Second, it will be impossible to book. Anyone who purchases points at VGF will use those points to stay at VGF. Although there may be some who occasionally "tour the world," I honestly do not believe that most will be using their VGF points to book AKV, OKW, SSR and VWL stays. Moreover, with only 46 studios and 46 one bedroom villas, there will be competition among owners for more desirable weeks. Should a week reach its 35% fixed week capacity, traditional booking will be even more difficult.

 

[RSWA2]

At Aulani, the Fixed Ownership Interest guarantees the owner a specific type of vacation home (for example, a two-bedroom Ocean View) during a specific week. The Member does not have to call Member Services each year because the reservation is automatically booked each year before any traditional points reservations can be made on a first-come, first-served basis.

Great, thanks, I did not know for fixed week ownership, it's already prebooked. For some reason I thought the owner still had to call to book it. I supposed that's what it means when it says guaranteed week.

 

[WilsonFlyer]

Originally, I had planned on adding-on, however, I have decided to purchase the fixed week option for two reasons.

First, I would be incredibly disappointed if I was unable to book a room at the Grand Floridian during my preferred season. I want the assurance of knowing that I am guaranteed my room, view and week every year.

Second, it will be impossible to book. Anyone who purchases points at VGF will use those points to stay at VGF. Although there may be some who occasionally "tour the world," I honestly do not believe that most will be using their VGF points to book AKV, OKW, SSR and VWL stays. Moreover, with only 46 studios and 46 one bedroom villas, there will be competition among owners for more desirable weeks. Should a week reach its 35% fixed week capacity, traditional booking will be even more difficult.

OK. You're swaying me back. All very good points.

 

[tjkraz]

Second, it will be impossible to book.

It won't be any worse than other locations. The Grand Californian is half the size...and the only DVC at Disneyland...and there's just no track record of owners being blocked immediately after booking opens. We've tweaked and adjusted our dates multiple times within the 11 month window and never had an issue.

In fact, there are a lot of reports of VGC success at 7 months. I've done it myself.

There are probably specific timeframes when VGF demand will spike. Problem is, the nature of the "Weeks" system means you'll only hit those targets 60-70% of the time. Demand may be high during Marathon week, Thanksgiving or Christmas...but you can't buy into those holidays with any degree of accuracy.

Standard View rooms may be hard to get at 11 months. But when you consider the 10% premium for a guaranteed SV room, it's almost self-defeating...you're paying 10% more points to lock in a lesser room. Better off just foregoing the guaranteed week and manually booking the better view.

With only owners having access at 11 months, I do not foresee times when people are blocked at 11 mos + 5 minutes. (And on the rare occasion it does happen...go on the waitlist. You'll be high on the list and there WILL be cancellations. There always are.)

Personally I'd plan on the 5 minute inconvenience to book manually every year rather than paying thousands of dollars to have someone do it for me.

But that's just me.

 

[SpaceMountain77]

I truly believe it makes the most sense. Had fixed week been an option for BCV, you know that Food & Wine Festival fixed weeks would have sold out.

 

[SpaceMountain77]

It won't be any worse than other locations. The Grand Californian is half the size...and the only DVC at Disneyland...and there's just no track record of owners being blocked immediately after booking opens. We've tweaked and adjusted our dates multiple times within the 11 month window and never had an issue.

In fact, there are a lot of reports of VGC success at 7 months. I've done it myself.

There are probably specific timeframes when VGF demand will spike. Problem is, the nature of the "Weeks" system means you'll only hit those targets 60-70% of the time. Demand may be high during Marathon week, Thanksgiving or Christmas...but you can't buy into those holidays with any degree of accuracy.

Standard View rooms may be hard to get at 11 months. But when you consider the 10% premium for a guaranteed SV room, it's almost self-defeating...you're paying 10% more points to lock in a lesser room. Better off just foregoing the guaranteed week and manually booking the better view.

With only owners having access at 11 months, I do not foresee times when people are blocked at 11 mos + 5 minutes. (And on the rare occasion it does happen...go on the waitlist. You'll be high on the list and there WILL be cancellations. There always are.)

Personally I'd plan on the 5 minute inconvenience to book manually every year rather than paying thousands of dollars to have someone do it for me.

But that's just me.

When I spoke to my guide today, I was told that there are 18 studios with lagoon views. After I did the math (dividing the 10% upcharge total by the true cost points for my preferred week), my price per point came out to $160.08, which, for me, is worth it to know that I have secured my week.

DVC membership is expensive and, for me, with VGF the extra is worth it to ultimately have what I want.

 

[Dean]

Without thinking this totally through...I wonder what if any negatives you would encounter if you ended up converting your fixed week to points.

My point is that 50 years is a long time to assume that you want to go to Disney at Christmas.

Also, how does the fixed week affect resale value?

It's mainly a cost issue. Buying BLT or GF and paying more to use elsewhere a large % of the time simply means you'll be trading down. I also suspect the fixed week option precludes smaller multiple contracts but haven't explored to be sure that's the case.

 

[tjkraz]

I truly believe it makes the most sense. Had fixed week been an option for BCV, you know that Food & Wine Festival fixed weeks would have sold out.

It might have been a popular option but that doesn't make it a necessary option. BCV owners are not routinely denied their desired accommodation at 11 months. By-and-large, the varied seasons in the points chart do an effective job of balancing demand.

When I spoke to my guide today, I was told that there are 18 studios with lagoon views. After I did the math (dividing the 10% upcharge total by the true cost points for my preferred week), my price per point came out to $160.08, which, for me, is worth it to know that I have secured my week.

Plus 50 years of 10% higher dues.

There are a small number of rooms but there are also a small number of owners. If VGF is 1/3 the size of BLT, there will be 1/3 as many owners. It's all relative.

It's certainly your prerogative. Personally I think the fixed week is unnecessary but time will tell...

 

[SpaceMountain77]

It might have been a popular option but that doesn't make it a necessary option. BCV owners are not routinely denied their desired accommodation at 11 months. By-and-large, the varied seasons in the points chart do an effective job of balancing demand.



Plus 50 years of 10% higher dues.

There are a small number of rooms but there are also a small number of owners. If VGF is 1/3 the size of BLT, there will be 1/3 as many owners. It's all relative.

It's certainly your prerogative. Personally I think the fixed week is unnecessary but time will tell...

My decision is largely driven by my experience as a DVC member. I have never been able to book a club level studio at AKV, even when I have open availability to travel. I have been successful with value studios when I log in at 7:55am and continue to refresh my page until booking is permitted. To get a 1-bedroom value, I had to walk the reservation.

To date, I have enjoyed 9 DVC vacations, 7 of which have been at AKV. The other two vacations were two 3-night stays, once at BCV and the other at BWV. Although I love AKV, occasionally, it would be nice to get a full week at BLT, BCV or VWL. I just have not been successful.

Again, for me, it is worth it to have the assurance of knowing my room, view and week are fixed.

 

[DenLo]

When I spoke to my guide today, I was told that there are 18 studios with lagoon views. After I did the math (dividing the 10% upcharge total by the true cost points for my preferred week), my price per point came out to $160.08, which, for me, is worth it to know that I have secured my week.

DVC membership is expensive and, for me, with VGF the extra is worth it to ultimately have what I want.

So you figure you'll be playing $160.08 per point versus the $145 per point which is the current offer. I'm not sure I could justify the cost. But I do understand if you think it's really important to guarantee a specific week you would want to go this way.

May I ask how many points you are buying and what is the season?

 

[myxdvz]

I've never seen the appeal of "fixed weeks". But that's just me. We very rarely take EXACTLY 7 days of vacation, moving it a day here and there depending on flight costs.

I've also noticed that we almost always do weekend stays (3 to 4 days) or Saturday to Thursday stays. When we do long stays, it would be Monday to Monday or something similar.

This is the reason DVC appealed to me in the first place. I realize that the owner has the option to convert to points - but I also believe that if one really wants Christmas - then, they better be online at the 11 month window. 65% of the rooms would still be available to the fastest clicker. No 10% upcharge, and no need to book a week.

Again, this is just basing on my family's vacation pattern. So while I can see why it makes sense for some - I know it's not for us.

 

[Dean]

Plus 50 years of 10% higher dues.

I thought the dues were based on the underlying points and not the surcharge? You'd be paying more if you bought extra points but I thought the dues would be the same as the number of points they get.

 

[tjkraz]

I thought the dues were based on the underlying points and not the surcharge? You'd be paying more if you bought extra points but I thought the dues would be the same as the number of points they get.

DVC calculates an average, multi-year point cost for each fixed week which takes into account the fact that the number of days in each season will vary from year-to-year. The charted cost for a given week could be 350 pts in 2013, 400 pts in 2014 and 425 pts in 2015 as the individual days change seasons (Adventure, Choice, Magic, etc.)

For the sake of argument, let's assume DVC calculates an average cost of 400 points for a given week. The 10% is added on top of that, making the Fixed Week basis 440 points. (I doubt any salesperson would explain this in detail--they simply tell buyers that the cost for the given Fixed Week is 440.)

The up-front cost will be 440 x $145. The deed will be written for 440 points. Dues will be paid on 440. And if the owner opts-out of their Fixed Week, they will have 440 points to spend elsewhere (or bank, etc.)

 

[Dean]

DVC calculates an average, multi-year point cost for each fixed week which takes into account the fact that the number of days in each season will vary from year-to-year. The charted cost for a given week could be 350 pts in 2013, 400 pts in 2014 and 425 pts in 2015 as the individual days change seasons (Adventure, Choice, Magic, etc.)

For the sake of argument, let's assume DVC calculates an average cost of 400 points for a given week. The 10% is added on top of that, making the Fixed Week basis 440 points. (I doubt any salesperson would explain this in detail--they simply tell buyers that the cost for the given Fixed Week is 440.)

The up-front cost will be 440 x $145. The deed will be written for 440 points. Dues will be paid on 440. And if the owner opts-out of their Fixed Week, they will have 440 points to spend elsewhere (or bank, etc.)

That's different than was my understanding. My understanding was they took cost in points and simply added the 10% in cash and you got the points they calculated for the week. I like your way better because that way you get more points for the larger investment but you would have the higher maint fees then. The issue it would create is that they would have to allot for more points in the total sold in such a way as everyone took points instead of the fixed week. That reduces the total points they could sell (or more accurately they sold them already) and means they'd have to take points from another unit if they sold many weeks as fixed weeks. Put another way, if they sold a single 3 BR unit for the entire year as fixed weeks, you would have oversold the points by 10% for that unit. They'd have to come from somewhere else.

 

[Novakm]

How does this math work?

Dream season sv sat gfv is the same points as magic season concierge at akv. If I have 10 days at gfv fixed week, I can get 11 days at akv if I trade in my fixed points. So now there is one day more points in the system than there are rooms available to use those points.

How to the points and room availability get back in sync?

 

[tjkraz]

That's different than was my understanding. My understanding was they took cost in points and simply added the 10% in cash and you got the points they calculated for the week. I like your way better because that way you get more points for the larger investment but you would have the higher maint fees then. The issue it would create is that they would have to allot for more points in the total sold in such a way as everyone took points instead of the fixed week. That reduces the total points they could sell (or more accurately they sold them already) and means they'd have to take points from another unit if they sold many weeks as fixed weeks. Put another way, if they sold a single 3 BR unit for the entire year as fixed weeks, you would have oversold the points by 10% for that unit. They'd have to come from somewhere else.

Dean:

The information I have now states that the amount of points a buyer must purchase in order to lock in a guaranteed week is "slightly higher" than the normal weekly cost for that same period. I had assumed (perhaps incorrectly) that the "slightly higher" point value was the 10%.

It's equally possible that they are not only requiring a higher point purchase but also charging a higher rate.

I'll see if I can get a hold of the guaranteed week chart to confirm.