Fifth Gate?

[Spaghetti Cat]

Tying together a couple of previous posts, I think a villains themed park that has scary adult thrill rides could be worth building. It fills in a niche that Disney doesn't cover well currently, and the theme fits the activity well. Maybe some classic villains such as Dracula or whtever could be included, it seems many here have an interest in that as well.

A lot of the time when people talk about a villains 5th gate I'm like "yeah right" because I just don't think it has the depth needed for a whole park. But for sme reason when Liljo22 suggested thrill rides it struck a chord with me, maybe. I still think the originally 4 parks need to be fully filled in first. All 4 need to be full day parks on the level of MK IMO, will take a long time.

 

[miknmin81]

To me its watch the hotel occupancy. If it stays high, no fifth gate. If it starts to drop, then we'll start hearing rumors.

 

[AvidDisReader]

What will it take to get a 5th gate???? The single biggest profit division within the Disney empire (measured by ROI) is ... DVC. So, when Disney runs out of all the available land around the existing parks to develop new DVC, that is when a new park will be built. You can bet your bottom dollar any new park will have plenty of available space for future DVC resorts. The only problem is I am 65 years old and the time when Disney runs out of prime land around existing Parks I will be long gone. LOL.

 

[rteetz]

To me its watch the hotel occupancy. If it stays high, no fifth gate. If it starts to drop, then we'll start hearing rumors.

Not necessarily. If Disney has consistently high hotel occupancy they will look to expand the hotels to get even more. Occupancy drops they’ll run discounts first at the resorts to draw people in.

 

[Future_WorldPhonencian]

Dont forget they have tons of new ip’s thanks to the fox acquisition... and while ppl have beat the “if star wars doesnt get its own gate there wont be a 5th gate” to death Disney never puts all its eggs in one basket like that... they could include star wars in multiple parks. Finding nemo, mickey mouse, toy story, frozen are all in multiple gates. I think people are looking for different experiences every time they visit disney. No one can do it all in one trip over a week, but if there are enough offerings ppl will come back again and again. The people that come most often like to complain that Festivals are the same every year and the experience is overcrowded are the reason Disney will eventually build a true 5th gate.
Plans for a 5th gate go back to eisner.
Last reason... A common practice is for families to buy a 5day ticket and double up on MK... MK is the most attended park in the world. If they want to keep that a crowding in check, a 5th gate will take the heat off MK as ppl seek out a new park each day.

 

[DanBoris]

Yes. I understand but they have purchased about 1500 acres in the last year. That’s a lot of land to offset land usage within the property. The Universal park is 800 acres.

Remember that the conservation offsets are not one to one, so purchasing 1500 acres for offsets is going to allow them to build on significantly less the 1500 acres.

 

[DanBoris]

Disney has already started planning for a fifth gate. When you add a park you need more places for people to stay. They have been building new hotels in recent years. Grand Destiny Tower, Riviera and several other DVC resorts. Reflections is next and it is a big resort. Universal has 800 acres, that will fill up fast. Some WDW resorts take up hundred plus acres, POR and SSR. Disney owns thousands of acres, yes a lot of it can’t be developed, but they have recently bought thousands of acres they wanted to buy originally. The 4 parks in Orlando are all in the top 10 busiest parks in the world. Even the slowest one averages over 20,000 people a day. The MK is well over 50,000 people a day. On the average day there is well over 110,000 people at the 4 parks. Wait times for rides are long on most days. These are all good things to have. Can they justify a 5th park, yes they can. But they neglected Epcot and are fixing it now. I think after Epcot is finished, you’ll probably hear a new park being built. Just my opinion. I also think they will be putting a new resort by the Grand Floridian since they made a new road and are building a walking path to the MK. Can you say 4th monorail resort.

It doesn't make sense to build new hotels now in anticipation of something that wouldn't be open for several years. If it really was in anticipation of a new park you would be looking at a lot of rooms sitting empty until that time.

 

[charliebrown]

Tying together a couple of previous posts, I think a villains themed park that has scary adult thrill rides could be worth building. It fills in a niche that Disney doesn't cover well currently, and the theme fits the activity well.

I honestly believe that the more people talk about the "Villains Park" that has been rumored FOREVER, Disney is less likely to build it.

 

[jarestel]

Disney built three new parks at WDW in less than 20 years, so building a single park should be a piece of cake. The advantage of adding a new park rather than simply expanding existing ones is Disney can then charge another full day ticket price for admission. And frankly, Disney is not shy about opening parks that aren't anywhere near complete because we have shown that we'll come to half-day parks anyway. I have no idea what they will or won't do and I freely admit that I have never built or operated a theme park, but I don't see anything of substance that would prevent them from adding a fifth gate should they so desire.

 

[verleniahall]

[QUOTE="Spaghetti Cat, post: 60914587, member:
Maybe some classic villains such as Dracula or whtever could be included, it seems many here have an interest in that as well.
[/QUOTE]

Those are Universal IP - so I’d she won’t be doing anything with those

 

[tlmadden73]

Disney built three new parks at WDW in less than 20 years, so building a single park should be a piece of cake. The advantage of adding a new park rather than simply expanding existing ones is Disney can then charge another full day ticket price for admission. And frankly, Disney is not shy about opening parks that aren't anywhere near complete because we have shown that we'll come to half-day parks anyway. I have no idea what they will or won't do and I freely admit that I have never built or operated a theme park, but I don't see anything of substance that would prevent them from adding a fifth gate should they so desire.

Plus .. building a new park means not worrying about logistics of traffic patterns and closing attractions (like they have done at DHS and will do at Epcot). I often wonder if would have been easier to just close down DHS .. rebuild the entire park (with TSL and SWGE .. and then redo some other lands without having to worry about keeping old attractions open (looking at you MuppetVision) just to have enough for guests to do.

How many things have gone in at DHS over the years just to attraction people there while half the park was closed? Launch Bay, Frozen Summer Parade, Star Wars shows, many meet and greets, numerous fireworks shows, redoing Pizza Planet into PizzaRizzo's, Municiberg, Lightning McQueen Racing Academy, etc. Should have just closed the park reddid it all in a few years and basically have a park SO new .. it would be a "5th gate" without having one.

 

[sethschroeder]

What will it take to get a 5th gate???? The single biggest profit division within the Disney empire (measured by ROI) is ... DVC. So, when Disney runs out of all the available land around the existing parks to develop new DVC, that is when a new park will be built. You can bet your bottom dollar any new park will have plenty of available space for future DVC resorts. The only problem is I am 65 years old and the time when Disney runs out of prime land around existing Parks I will be long gone. LOL.

Sorry you make 0 sense. If they are out of room how do they build a new park, they have no land left?

Also Disney Parks and DVC are not the same and don't have the same people running them. If your bonus of $1m was tied to park profit would care when or if DVC had hotels they were building?

Let me know if I am wrong though and DVC and Parks are run by the exact same person.

 

[Lewisc]

Sorry you make 0 sense. If they are out of room how do they build a new park, they have no land left?

Also Disney Parks and DVC are not the same and don't have the same people running them. If your bonus of $1m was tied to park profit would care when or if DVC had hotels they were building?

Let me know if I am wrong though and DVC and Parks are run by the exact same person.

A bonus tied to park profit? The expenditures for a new park will be $$$. Any new revenue will by years and years in the future. A decision based on a bonus tied to park profit would be NO. Any decision to build a new park would be made by higher management. Maybe same people who at least sign off on DVC construction.

Disney has 4 parks. MK, for many guests, is at least 2 days. DHS may well be 2 days once Star Wars opens. We have no idea what the line wait situation will be. Disney has 2 water parks. Mini-Golf. Disney Springs. More then enough for a family on a 7 night vacation. Add resort pools.

Disney decided to spend the $$$ on existing parks. Fantasyland expansion. Star Wars. Toys Story. Pandora. Big $$$ but Disney avoided some of the infrastructure costs a new park would require.

 

[TCRAIG]

A bonus tied to park profit? The expenditures for a new park will be $$$. Any new revenue will by years and years in the future. A decision based on a bonus tied to park profit would be NO. Any decision to build a new park would be made by higher management. Maybe same people who at least sign off on DVC construction.

Disney has 4 parks. MK, for many guests, is at least 2 days. DHS may well be 2 days once Star Wars opens. We have no idea what the line wait situation will be. Disney has 2 water parks. Mini-Golf. Disney Springs. More then enough for a family on a 7 night vacation. Add resort pools.

Disney decided to spend the $$$ on existing parks. Fantasyland expansion. Star Wars. Toys Story. Pandora. Big $$$ but Disney avoided some of the infrastructure costs a new park would require.

Not sure why adding 2 rides to DHS for Star Wars makes it go from a barely 1 day park to a 2...but I really do hope you’re right - MK is still my favorite so I welcome all efforts to entice people away...

 

[Phicinfan]

Not sure why adding 2 rides to DHS for Star Wars makes it go from a barely 1 day park to a 2...but I really do hope you’re right - MK is still my favorite so I welcome all efforts to entice people away...

The amount of time you will stand in line makes it a full day for SW:GE alone

 

[Eddie]

The amount of time you will stand in line makes it a full day for SW:GE alone

That is LMAO funny. Just got back, TSL was a ZOO!!! and there were huge waits at both RnR and TT. I am sure Star Wars will cut into waits a bit but with all the STAR Wars Geeks I am sure it will be a huge influx of people!!!

 

[DanBoris]

Disney built three new parks at WDW in less than 20 years, so building a single park should be a piece of cake. The advantage of adding a new park rather than simply expanding existing ones is Disney can then charge another full day ticket price for admission. And frankly, Disney is not shy about opening parks that aren't anywhere near complete because we have shown that we'll come to half-day parks anyway. I have no idea what they will or won't do and I freely admit that I have never built or operated a theme park, but I don't see anything of substance that would prevent them from adding a fifth gate should they so desire.

Yes, you could get people to buy extra days, but due to the way Disney's pricing is structured, once you get over 4 days, you aren't paying very much to add that additional day. The biggest question with a new park is how does it end up cannibalizing attendance from the other parks.

 

[jarestel]

Yes, you could get people to buy extra days, but due to the way Disney's pricing is structured, once you get over 4 days, you aren't paying very much to add that additional day. The biggest question with a new park is how does it end up cannibalizing attendance from the other parks.

Good points. Though Disney pricing structure isn't exactly cast in stone so that's not an insurmountable obstacle. I just wonder when it makes sense to consider a 5th gate? Would Disney begin to contemplate this when the attendance at the other parks averages 7 out of 10 or would they just wait until every park is 10 out of 10 (shudder) before thinking about expansion.

 

[AvidDisReader]

To Sethschroeder, I was talking about available land around existing Parks, DVC for the most part likes to build close to a current park (notable exception is SSR). The rest of the post was tongue in cheek, I apologize if that was not clear. If you look at a map and draw a straight line from Epcot to Animal Kingdom park, there is a very large amount of buildable land about half way right around Western Way.
Just food for thought.

 

[DanBoris]

Good points. Though Disney pricing structure isn't exactly cast in stone so that's not an insurmountable obstacle. I just wonder when it makes sense to consider a 5th gate? Would Disney begin to contemplate this when the attendance at the other parks averages 7 out of 10 or would they just wait until every park is 10 out of 10 (shudder) before thinking about expansion.

I personally think this is one of the reasons they will avoid building a "normal" park and instead go for more boutique experiences that they can upcharge, like the Star Wars hotel.