Felony? Babysitter hits 7 year old 20 times with belt, no serious injuries

[shortbun]

I've never seen a law like this. I've heard many people complain about how they're not allowed to discipline their kids without someone calling social services on them, but I just always figured it was someone projecting their frustration over some law that doesn't even exist so they can get all riled up about it - sort of like one of those Snope stories that every one gets all upset about just to find out the story was made up

I was a 'mandatory reporter' of suspected child abuse in Ohio. We were trained that use of anything-a tool-other than the hand, to spank, was child abuse-officially.

 

[sunnyday123]

Absolutely a felony in my opinion!If an adult were beat with an item 20 times, we would all be appalled. In what sick world is it ok to beat anyone 20 times or even 10???

I agree. Also, if someone beat my kid 20 times, or one time, with a belt, prison would be the safest place for them.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

If he wasn't hurt why the trip to the pediatrician? And yes, not her child, she has no right to beat him with a belt. (personally I don't think you should beat your own child but that's a different thread)

I cannot speak for the incident, but in Florida--when abuse of a child is reported such as in this manner--there was an act against a child--the state automatically requires the child to be checked out at the ER. I think they are considered an "independent 3rd party".

 

[Acklander]

I was a 'mandatory reporter' of suspected child abuse in Ohio. We were trained that use of anything-a tool-other than the hand, to spank, was child abuse-officially.[/

If you google spanking laws by state, you will see that the laws are pretty vague. It's a mighty thin line they have to toe between parental rights and child abuse. If a parent disciplined their child using an instrument, but it didn't leave any marks (which seems to be the determining factor in many states) and they were loving parents and provided a safe home for their child, the parent would not be charged with abuse. They may be looked at, but they wouldn't be charged.
I'm not defending spanking or whipping your child with a belt. I don't spank my children and personally, consider it lazy parenting. But even though I don't believe in it, I understand there's a big difference between spanking (with or without instruments)your child and holding his hand over a hot stove. I also accept that different parents have different ways of raising their child and choices in discipline. I know plenty of children who were spanked as children and grew up to be fine upstanding citizens and I know plenty of people who weren't spanked who grew up to be fine upstanding citizens. It s a personal choice for a family to make.
A child care provider should NEVER put their hands on another parents child. They are two different things

 

[Magpie]

I'm guessing there were welts, and that's why the child was brought to the pediatrician. The doctor can document the injuries for legal purposes.

My mom took a belt to me a handful of times when I was a little older. Belts leave raised welts, they hurt and look alarming, but they go away after about 12 hours or so. Except for tiny areas where the skin is slightly broken - those take longer to hear, but they don't look like much.

FWIW, my mom is the reason I will NOT spank my children. I clearly remember the humiliation of having to bend over bare-bottomed in front of her, and I remember my rage and contempt for her. The only thing I don't remember is what I did to deserve it. I decided right then, if I ever had children, I never wanted them to feel like that about me.

Given that this "babysitter" was not the child's parent, she had no right to touch him. Heck, she had no right to even see him with his pants down, at his age! Throw the book at her.

 

[chobie]

I was a 'mandatory reporter' of suspected child abuse in Ohio. We were trained that use of anything-a tool-other than the hand, to spank, was child abuse-officially.[/

If you google spanking laws by state, you will see that the laws are pretty vague. It's a mighty thin line they have to toe between parental rights and child abuse. If a parent disciplined their child using an instrument, but it didn't leave any marks (which seems to be the determining factor in many states) and they were loving parents and provided a safe home for their child, the parent would not be charged with abuse. They may be looked at, but they wouldn't be charged.
I'm not defending spanking or whipping your child with a belt. I don't spank my children and personally, consider it lazy parenting. But even though I don't believe in it, I understand there's a big difference between spanking (with or without instruments)your child and holding his hand over a hot stove. I also accept that different parents have different ways of raising their child and choices in discipline. I know plenty of children who were spanked as children and grew up to be fine upstanding citizens and I know plenty of people who weren't spanked who grew up to be fine upstanding citizens. It s a personal choice for a family to make.
A child care provider should NEVER put their hands on another parents child. They are two different things

In Florida you can beat your child on the buttocks with an instrument, leave marks, and that is not criminal child abuse. You may have DCF intervene and take action, but criminally, it will not stand up in court. I'm not sure about babysitters, but schools can also also leave marks and not be charged.

 

[LuvsDragonflies]

Someone leaves a mark on one of my kids and they'll wish they were charged criminally, because they'd be behind bars and safe from ME.

 

[kirstenb1]

Even if this were her own child....my Mom used the belt daily, somedays, hourly!!! But she never hit anyone more than 5-6 times. 20 times means you're out of control, not cool.

 

[snarlingcoyote]

Absolutely. Hitting a child with anything other than an open hand (i.e. fist, belt, spoon, wooden paddle, foot) is against the law. No need to discuss.

That depends upon your state.

 

[Disney1fan2002]

In Florida you can beat your child on the buttocks with an instrument, leave marks, and that is not criminal child abuse. You may have DCF intervene and take action, but criminally, it will not stand up in court. I'm not sure about babysitters, but schools can also also leave marks and not be charged.

Yeah, we all know that you can pretty much do anything to your kid in FLA.....just ask Casey Anthony.

 

[Planogirl]

Here is a link that is supposed to show the regulations by state. Most of it looks pretty vague.

http://kidjacked.com/legal/spanking_law.asp

 

[2disneyboys]

I'm pretty laid back when it comes to how I"ll let "you" (general you) discpline my child.. I am not the mother who gets upset if someone else corrects my child (even if I'm present) and if you told me you had to smack my child to protect them (such as smacking thier hand away from a hot flame or other harmful situation) I would be ok with it. HOWEVER... the only time someone should put their hands on my child (or any child really, IMHO) is to prevent harm.. as in snatching them out of the path of a car and pushing them to safety or something of that nature. while I don't condon swearing from my children and would certainly punish them for swearing or other dirty language ...I would TEAR INTO someone who chose to strike my child over some words coming out of thier mouth. that is not a situation where my child is in physical danger.. so no reason to TOUCH them.

yes, I was spanked as a child (quite a lot actually, but truly, I deserved every one of those spankings and prob several that I should have gotten ) but there is a difference between a spanking and excessive force...

 

[Wadecool]

Someone leaves a mark on one of my kids and they'll wish they were charged criminally, because they'd be behind bars and safe from ME.

Same here!

 

[YodaGirl]

Her kid? No.

A belt? Wrong.

20 times? Ridiculous.

Yeah, I definitely think felony charges.

She was a babysitter! We can argue till the cows come home over parents' spanking a kid, but that's not this case.

This.

IIRC, the family court judge in our area said (we go to church together and were discussing it one day) that 3 swats to the bottom, with a hand, that doesn't leave a mark, is legal. Anything else, you go to jail.

 

[Ciciwoowoo]

I believe that this absolutely is a felony. This was not her child; she has no right to administer corporeal punishment in any form. She was entrusted with the care of a child and she broke that trust, badly.

I would like to see her serve some time in prison for what she has done. I would also love to see a sort of "child offender" list created, that functions rather like the sex offender list. That way, any future clients of hers will know what she is capable of and steer far away from her.

 

[fireflymedic]

I'll bet many parents did this routinely?

Maybe even your own parents?

.

I'll take that bet you can send the money too.....

you will not find one person that has ever spanked a kid 20 times in a row

 

[LuvCuteBoys]

Absolutely a felony in my opinion!If an adult were beat with an item 20 times, we would all be appalled. In what sick world is it ok to beat anyone 20 times or even 10???

That's what I was going to say.

Yes, and I'd feel the same way if she was the kid's parent.

Me too.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

The Iowa statute from the link that Planogirl posted:

Iowa

[Iowa Code]

Child endangerment includes using unreasonable force, torture, or cruelty which results in physical injury, is intended to cause serious injury, or causes substantial mental or emotional harm.

Extent of child's injuries, if any, will play a role in the decision, it seems. (I can't imagine there weren't welts and bruises from 20 strikes with a belt.) "Intent to harm" seems relevant as well. Parents of the boy must have felt that was the case. Child care providers aren't mentioned.

IMO she might wish she lived in another state. Or perhaps she is from another state, hence the confusion.

For instance, right below it, Kentucky (along with some other states) appears to clearly give child care providers the right to use force:

Kentucky

[Kentucky Revised Statutes]

Parent/guardian/person/teacher with care and supervision of minor can use force if person believes force necessary for welfare of child and force is not designed to cause or known to cause a substantial risk of causing death, serious physical injury, disfigurement, extreme pain, or extreme mental distress.

In MA, she'd be in big trouble:

Massachusetts

[The General Laws of Massachusetts]

In Massachusetts, there is no specific list of actions that constitute abuse. Moreover, a parent doesn't have to injure a child to be reported - as long "as the substantial risk of harm" is there. "The legislature has balanced opposing societal viewpoints," says Juliana Rice, an assistant attorney general representing the commissioner of the DSS. Recognizing that "what may be harmful for one child may not be harmful for another," the law does not define abuse in terms of parental conduct, but rather on the degree of harm to the child.

"Abuse" is defined as, the willful infliction of injury, unreasonable confinement, intimidation, including verbal or mental abuse, or punishment with resulting physical harm, pain or mental anguish or assault and battery; provided, however, that verbal or mental abuse shall require a knowing and willful act directed at a specific person.
Chapter III: Section 72F. Public Health - Hospitals

Very interesting seeing each state's statute, btw - thanks for posting, Planogirl!

 

[Nancy for Disney]

First they said not seriously injured which means that there was probably bruising but not enough to be life threatening. They probably took him in to the hospital to be checked as if there was a lot of bruising it could be potentially dangerous. Also if they are filing felony charges then they want a doctor's opinion of the injuries and documentation when/if it goes to court. This is also probably not the first time the authorities have been called on this lady for beating a child excessively with a belt. She may be in need of more than a warning. All states have different guidelines on what they consider abuse and how they handle it. Another point to mention is this is one news article. I work for my state's children's services and there are times I see an article in the paper which has only part of the story.

 

[indimom]

Indiana
Law does not limit right of parent/guardian/custodian to use reasonable corporal punishment when disciplining a child.

This doesn't really surprise me. No real description of what "reasonable" is here.

BUT, Here are the licensed day care guidelines regarding inappropriate discipline in Indiana. Very different:

470 IAC 3-4.7-55 Inappropriate discipline
Authority: IC 12-13-5-3
Affected: IC 12-17.2-4
Sec. 55.
(a) Any person, while on child care center premises, shall not engage in or direct any of the following actions toward children:
(1) Inflict corporal punishment in any manner upon a child's body.
2) Hit, spank, beat, shake, pinch, or any other measure that produces physical discomfort.
(3) Cruel, harsh, unusual, humiliating, or frightening methods of discipline, including threatening the use of physical punishment.
(4) Placement in a locked or dark room.
(5) Public or private humiliation, yelling, or abusive or profane language.
(b) Staff shall not associate disciplinary action or rewards with rest.
(c) Staff shall not associate disciplinary action with food or use food as a reward.
(d) Staff shall not associate disciplinary action or humiliate a child in regard to toileting.
(e) Caregivers shall not:
(1) use time out for any child less than three (3) years of age;
(2) use time out for any purpose other than to enable the child to regain control; and
(3) physically restrain children except:
(A) when it is necessary to ensure their own safety or that of others; and
(B) only for as long as is necessary for control of the situation;
(4) use punishment to correct unacceptable behavior.

IMO, I agree with these requirements and think the the babysitter was WAY over the line.