Fellow New Yorkers, question about new NYS free college tuition program.....

[Simba's Mom]

Adjusted Gross Income is your income BEFORE deductions and exemptions, so not sure how that would help.

Exactly what I was thinking. I'm an income tax preparer, and I can't think offhand of ways to reduce the AGI. But you're right-it's certainly not with standard or itemized deductions or exemptions.

 

[Jen and Ashwin]

Adjusted Gross Income is your income BEFORE deductions and exemptions, so not sure how that would help.

No, it is after certain deductions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adjusted_gross_income

ETA: There are some deductions that go towards AGI. These include deductible traditional IRA contributions, alimony paid, health insurance if you're self-employed and student loan interest.

Other deductions, such as the standard deduction, itemized deductions including mortgage interest and charitable deductions and exemptions aren't used to figure your adjusted gross income, but rather go towards your taxable income.

 

[mmfox316]

I hate to suggest this as it is a little desperate but if she got married wouldn't she be "emancipated"?

 

[undertheradar]

No, it is after certain deductions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adjusted_gross_income

ETA: There are some deductions that go towards AGI. These include deductible traditional IRA contributions, alimony paid, health insurance if you're self-employed and student loan interest.

Other deductions, such as the standard deduction, itemized deductions including mortgage interest and charitable deductions and exemptions aren't used to figure your adjusted gross income, but rather go towards your taxable income.

This is not how our taxes look. Deductions come after AGI, not before. The only reductions before AGI would be standard IRS deductions for number of declared family members. All itemized deductions come after.

As for what the FAFSA concludes, we have always been AGI divided by number of declared family members = too bad, so sad, find a way to pay.

 

[J.Casto79]

No, it is after certain deductions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adjusted_gross_income

ETA: There are some deductions that go towards AGI. These include deductible traditional IRA contributions, alimony paid, health insurance if you're self-employed and student loan interest.

Other deductions, such as the standard deduction, itemized deductions including mortgage interest and charitable deductions and exemptions aren't used to figure your adjusted gross income, but rather go towards your taxable income.

Well, if you read what I was replying to, you'll see that I was replying to the comment about the standard deduction which is after AGI. Sorry I didn't clarify that. There are certain adjsutments you can take before getting to AGI, that is true. They are listed on the first page of the form 1040, which I've attached.

 

[Jen and Ashwin]

This is not how our taxes look. Deductions come after AGI, not before. The only reductions before AGI would be standard IRS deductions for number of declared family members. All itemized deductions come after.

As for what the FAFSA concludes, we have always been AGI divided by number of declared family members = too bad, so sad, find a way to pay.

Regardless of how your taxes look, there are ways to adjust your AGI. Otherwise, why would it be called "adjusted"? Here is some more information, since people can't seem to grasp the concept:

https://turbotax.intuit.com/tax-too...is-Adjusted-Gross-Income--AGI--/INF19180.html

https://www.learnvest.com/knowledge...sted-gross-income-with-these-quick-questions/

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/62

 

[J.Casto79]

Deleted

 

[undertheradar]

Regardless of how your taxes look, there are ways to adjust your AGI. Otherwise, why would it be called "adjusted"? Here is some more information, since people can't seem to grasp the concept:

https://turbotax.intuit.com/tax-too...is-Adjusted-Gross-Income--AGI--/INF19180.html

https://www.learnvest.com/knowledge...sted-gross-income-with-these-quick-questions/

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/62

As I stated, not how it looks on our taxes. There are limits to those adjustments and many households do not qualify for them due to earnings caps.

 

[Jen and Ashwin]

And technically, those are adjustments, not deductions.

The statute actually calls them deductions.

 

[DaretoDis]

Who is going to pay for all of this tuition? Taking from those that do and giving to those that don't/won't is not social justice.

 

[KarenAylwood]

It's just protecting their investment. If you received four years of "free" tuition and leave NYS after graduation, they'd convert that $26k into a loan. Frankly I'm surprised by how cheap in state tuition in NYS is. I know at William & Mary, it's about $20k for tuition in-state.

No advice for OP, sorry.

William and Mary is on a totally different level than SUNY schools despite both being in state. Also taxes are much much higher in NY. I'm originally from NY (born there, stayed until 18) and went to W&M out of state. Back then it was about $26K for out of state which was a great deal IMO. In state was much cheaper, I think only 12K. It's gone up to about $17K in state for WM and comparatively it's $9K for SUNY Albany in state. There are a majority of differences- facilities, faculty salaries, amount of state funding, etc. Cost of living is lower in VA but many of the state colleges have the same or higher faculty salaries than NY schools. UVA for instance has a higher avg faculty salary than even the highest SUNY school. And I know for sure that funding from the state is not very high at all. Now (10+ years after graduation) as a WM employee we hear about budget issues all the time.

Taxes are already stupid high in NY (my parents are still there) and while they keep advertising to get people to come to NY for jobs (here locally in VA they do- it's hilarious) I don't see this fixing their crisis. I think offering free tuition is a mistake on their part. I'm interested to see how they'll enforce keeping people in NY as well. I wouldn't have stayed for free tuition. I wanted out as soon as I could get out. I'm ecstatic now to live in VA where the in state schools are rated some of the best in the country. I think it's a shame that they'd make someone feel like they had to stay in NY if they couldn't find a job rather than move to find one that fits what they want and pays what they want. I was offered a position at GE in NY two years ago but turned it down because my husband would have a hard time finding a job. I don't believe the job market is all that great up there.

 

[Gracie09]

the whole remain in NY is kinda of a weird stipulation. I mean, that limits you to not a big list of jobs to apply for... :\

NY State has the 12 or 13th largest economy in the world. Its as large as Australia's. It has the largest financial services sector in the world as well as a variety of other economic sectors including agriculture, law, education, retail etc. Its not like they are saying you have to stay in this one little town in the middle of nowhere. You can go anywhere in the state.

Although if you don't like the rules don't take the money. Most people end up settling in the area they get their first job after college. The idea is to invest in the people so they make their lives in NY and then pay back that investment through taxes.

 

[Kaytie]

Exactly what I was thinking. I'm an income tax preparer, and I can't think offhand of ways to reduce the AGI. But you're right-it's certainly not with standard or itemized deductions or exemptions.

Well, there's always changing jobs to reduce one's income, or negotiating a pay reduction. But it's too late for this year, anyway.

I hate to suggest this as it is a little desperate but if she got married wouldn't she be "emancipated"?

No, emancipation is a legal status applicable to minors. But if she were to marry, her AGI and eligibility would be with her spouse - not affected by her parents.

Regardless of how your taxes look, there are ways to adjust your AGI. Otherwise, why would it be called "adjusted"?

Adjusted by adding pay/salary to additional forms of income like alimony to get the total, aka adjusted gross income.

As for what the FAFSA concludes,

So with the FAFSA already submitted, isn't it too late for the new program to apply to this student this year?

 

[havaneselover]

William and Mary is on a totally different level than SUNY schools despite both being in state. Also taxes are much much higher in NY. I'm originally from NY (born there, stayed until 18) and went to W&M out of state. Back then it was about $26K for out of state which was a great deal IMO. In state was much cheaper, I think only 12K. It's gone up to about $17K in state for WM and comparatively it's $9K for SUNY Albany in state. There are a majority of differences- facilities, faculty salaries, amount of state funding, etc. Cost of living is lower in VA but many of the state colleges have the same or higher faculty salaries than NY schools. UVA for instance has a higher avg faculty salary than even the highest SUNY school. And I know for sure that funding from the state is not very high at all. Now (10+ years after graduation) as a WM employee we hear about budget issues all the time.

Taxes are already stupid high in NY (my parents are still there) and while they keep advertising to get people to come to NY for jobs (here locally in VA they do- it's hilarious) I don't see this fixing their crisis. I think offering free tuition is a mistake on their part. I'm interested to see how they'll enforce keeping people in NY as well. I wouldn't have stayed for free tuition. I wanted out as soon as I could get out. I'm ecstatic now to live in VA where the in state schools are rated some of the best in the country. I think it's a shame that they'd make someone feel like they had to stay in NY if they couldn't find a job rather than move to find one that fits what they want and pays what they want. I was offered a position at GE in NY two years ago but turned it down because my husband would have a hard time finding a job. I don't believe the job market is all that great up there.

All VA four year colleges are significantly over $6k in tuition. I only used W&M as an example. And yes, I'm aware taxes in NYS are insane. That's part of the reason I've never returned to the NE. I went to UVa as an out-of-state student.

They aren't making anyone feel like they have to stay but if they don't their "free" tuition needs to be reimbursed. If I were a NYS tax payer I would be ticked off if my taxes were paying to educate kids who left the state after graduation and paid taxes and spent their income elsewhere. It really seems pretty reasonable to me.

 

[KarenAylwood]

All VA four year colleges are significantly over $6k in tuition. I only used W&M as an example. And yes, I'm aware taxes in NYS are insane. That's part of the reason I've never returned to the NE. I went to UVa as an out-of-state student.

They aren't making anyone feel like they have to stay but if they don't their "free" tuition needs to be reimbursed. If I were a NYS tax payer I would be ticked off if my taxes were paying to educate kids who left the state after graduation and paid taxes and spent their income elsewhere. It really seems pretty reasonable to me.

I wasn't very good at explaining what I was thinking. I'm also not sure where the $6K in tuition came from. I don't know anywhere that's $6K. I said NYS taxes were insane as a statement, not because I didn't think you knew that. I think everyone knows how insane NYS taxes are which is why they are desperate to bring people to the state. First it was the campaign to get businesses to come to NY (10 year tax break, of course that pissed off those doing business in NY already), now it's the campaign to get people to come to NY for jobs ("I work at IBM in Poughkeepsie and I love it!"). Now they're pushing in state tuition for free.

I get the requirement of making them stay. I was more commenting on it that if I had gotten free tuition I'd feel like I was forced to stay because otherwise I'd have to pay them back. However if they had a system where it'd become like any other student loan maybe that wouldn't be that bad. Will they require it in one big lump sum? Probably not. Will there be interest charged at a higher rate than a normal student loan? Would you then apply for a student loan? I'm interested to see how it all plays out.

And there are grade requirements (as there should be). So if they fall below, do they get charged for school starting then? For the whole time? Do they just get kicked out?

How much will taxes go up and will they pull from other areas? Public schools (K-12) are some of the best because of great funding from those high taxes. It'd be disappointing to see them decline.

 

[havaneselover]

I wasn't very good at explaining what I was thinking. I'm also not sure where the $6K in tuition came from. I don't know anywhere that's $6K. I said NYS taxes were insane as a statement, not because I didn't think you knew that. I think everyone knows how insane NYS taxes are which is why they are desperate to bring people to the state. First it was the campaign to get businesses to come to NY (10 year tax break, of course that pissed off those doing business in NY already), now it's the campaign to get people to come to NY for jobs ("I work at IBM in Poughkeepsie and I love it!"). Now they're pushing in state tuition for free.

I get the requirement of making them stay. I was more commenting on it that if I had gotten free tuition I'd feel like I was forced to stay because otherwise I'd have to pay them back. However if they had a system where it'd become like any other student loan maybe that wouldn't be that bad. Will they require it in one big lump sum? Probably not. Will there be interest charged at a higher rate than a normal student loan? Would you then apply for a student loan? I'm interested to see how it all plays out.

And there are grade requirements (as there should be). So if they fall below, do they get charged for school starting then? For the whole time? Do they just get kicked out?

How much will taxes go up and will they pull from other areas? Public schools (K-12) are some of the best because of great funding from those high taxes. It'd be disappointing to see them decline.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/04/...elp-traditional-but-not-typical-students.html

It's cutting the cost of a 4-year degeee by $26k. $26,000/4 = $6,500.

 

[busy mom]

As far as the quality of my DD's education, I'm not a bit concerned. She attends one of the highest ranked University's (Univ of Buffalo), and will be prepared for the job market when she graduates (or continues on for her MD). Staying in New York for a few years would also not be an issue, lot's of health care opportunities in our region.

As far as the new scholarship program, someone has asked if qualified student's must maintain a certain GPA. Unbelievably, the answer is NO. They must only "meet the GPA guidelines of their major". To me, that's just asking for abuse.

I appreciate the discussion, but it appears the only way she may fit the mold is if she get's married. NOT. HAPPENING.

 

[Dakota731]

Free? There's no free! Everyone will have higher taxes - senior citizens who have no kids in college will pay, families who have already paid for their own kids' college bills will now pay for everyone else's kids, and poor young people starting out will never be able to afford to buy a house since they are paying for other students' tuition. It's s feel good, vote getting bill that is another step closer to socialism.

 

[Dakota731]

And what kills me is the BILLIONS of dollars colleges have on hand and don't pay taxes on. And yet these same schools get away with taking government aid (taxpayer dollars) plus milking students with higher and higher tuition each year. Not to mention how many kids graduate with four year degrees who are making minimum wage because so many of the majors offered by colleges have no real job potential. And don't think it's just ivy league and big state schools. I worked for a small university who had a billion dollars in endowments yet still charged students $24,000 a year and raised costs at least 10% every year. Some students are much better off going to a community college for a few years or even a trade school. Electricians and plumbers in our area make six figures without a college degree and yet I have friends whose kids aren't even making the poverty level with bachelors degrees in music theory, recreation, or psychology. It's a big racket these universities have going convincing every kids in the US that they must go to college (and offering "fun" majors to recruit them), leaving many of them not ready to be financially independent or ready for the job market.

End of fiscal year 2015 endowment
Harvard University (MA) $37,615,545,000
Yale University (CT) $25,542,983,000
Princeton University (NJ) $22,291,270,000
Stanford University (CA) $22,222,957,000
Massachusetts Institute of Technology $13,474,743,000
University of Pennsylvania $10,133,569,000
University of Michigan—Ann Arbor $9,809,705,000
Texas A&M University—College Station $9,754,202,036
Columbia University (NY) $9,639,065,000 5 (tie)
University of Notre Dame (IN) $8,784,381,000 15 (tie)

 

[Gracie09]

Free? There's no free! Everyone will have higher taxes - senior citizens who have no kids in college will pay, families who have already paid for their own kids' college bills will now pay for everyone else's kids, and poor young people starting out will never be able to afford to buy a house since they are paying for other students' tuition. It's s feel good, vote getting bill that is another step closer to socialism.

You can use that argument about pretty much everything - Social Security when it started, bonds for infrastructure, k-12 education, etc etc